What do you think...is Ford next on the hit list?

TMT

On Jun 2, 3:15*am, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
What do you think...is Ford next on the hit list?

TMT

Ford is not likely to go bankrupt, but will face a number of years of
low growth because of the government owning so much of GM. Government
purchases will likely favor GM. GM and Chrysler will have loans
available to purchase vehicles that are government subsidized. In
short the playing field is not likely to be level. But with the
government owning so much of GM, it is likely to be badly managed ( at
least for profit ) and is very likely to collapse.


Dan

On Jun 2, 6:17*am, " wrote:
On Jun 2, 3:15*am, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

What do you think...is Ford next on the hit list?

TMT

Ford is not likely to go bankrupt, but will face a number of years of
low growth because of the government owning so much of GM. *Government
purchases will likely favor GM. *GM and Chrysler will have loans
available to purchase vehicles *that are government subsidized. *In
short the playing field is not likely to be level. *But with the
government owning so much of GM, it is likely to be badly managed ( at
least for profit ) and is very likely to collapse.

Dan

I agree with you Dan.

I think Ford has some tough years ahead...very tough.

The big issue is whether or not people will start buying cars.

Ford is surviving on its trucks for the moment.

Considering that Chrysler/GM will be losing an enormous amount of
economic liability through the bankruptcy process while Ford still has
to service all of its commitments, you are right about the playing
field not being level.

I would also expect foreign manufacturers to try very hard to capture
additional market share in this ongoing soap opera .

TMT

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jun 2, 6:17?am, " wrote:
On Jun 2, 3:15?am, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

What do you think...is Ford next on the hit list?

TMT

Ford is not likely to go bankrupt, but will face a number of years of
low growth because of the government owning so much of GM. ?Government
purchases will likely favor GM. ?GM and Chrysler will have loans
available to purchase vehicles ?that are government subsidized. ?In
short the playing field is not likely to be level. ?But with the
government owning so much of GM, it is likely to be badly managed ( at
least for profit ) and is very likely to collapse.

Dan

I agree with you Dan.

I think Ford has some tough years ahead...very tough.

The big issue is whether or not people will start buying cars.

Ford is surviving on its trucks for the moment.

Considering that Chrysler/GM will be losing an enormous amount of
economic liability through the bankruptcy process while Ford still has
to service all of its commitments, you are right about the playing
field not being level.

They still don't make vehicles people want at prices that can sustain their mess.
they're failed. ford should have nothing to worry about.

On Jun 3, 11:07*am, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jun 2, 6:17?am, " wrote:
On Jun 2, 3:15?am, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

What do you think...is Ford next on the hit list?

TMT

Ford is not likely to go bankrupt, but will face a number of years of
low growth because of the government owning so much of GM. ?Government
purchases will likely favor GM. ?GM and Chrysler will have loans
available to purchase vehicles ?that are government subsidized. ?In
short the playing field is not likely to be level. ?But with the
government owning so much of GM, it is likely to be badly managed ( at
least for profit ) and is very likely to collapse.

Dan

I agree with you Dan.

I think Ford has some tough years ahead...very tough.

The big issue is whether or not people will start buying cars.

Ford is surviving on its trucks for the moment.

Considering that Chrysler/GM will be losing an enormous amount of
economic liability through the bankruptcy process while Ford still has
to service all of its commitments, you are right about the playing
field not being level.

They still don't make vehicles people want at prices that can sustain their mess.
they're failed. ford should have nothing to worry about.

I disagree...Ford has a lot to worry about.

They have over $20 billion of debt to service.

And now they have to compete against two domestic manufacturers where
the Government has a vested interest in to get your tax dollars back.

If the recession continues beyond the current projections (and I think
it will), Ford is in a world of hurt.

TMT

Ford's May sales fall 24 percent
By KIMBERLY S. JOHNSON, AP Auto Writer Kimberly S. Johnson, Ap Auto
Writer Tue Jun 2, 1:01 pm ET

DETROIT – Ford Motor Co. said Tuesday its U.S. sales fell 24 percent
in May from a year ago, but sales rose 20 percent from April as the
automaker continues to gain market share from its competitors now
under bankruptcy protection.

General Motors Corp. filed for bankruptcy protection Monday. Chrysler
LLC, which filed in April, is preparing to exit bankruptcy protection
under an operating agreement with Italian automaker Fiat SpA. Both
automakers, and others, report their May U.S. sales results later
Tuesday.

Dearborn-based Ford said it sold 161,197 cars and light trucks in the
U.S. last month. Sales of the Ford Fusion rose 9.4 percent as the
company began selling new 2010 models of the midsize sedan along with
a hybrid version. Ford said it sold a record number Fusions — 19,786
in May — which was surpassed only by sales of its F-series pickup
trucks.

Ford says its better cars are driving sales and its increasing market
share, not GM and Chrysler's filings for bankruptcy protection. The
company said it plans to increase production levels in the second
quarter by 10,000 vehicles, to 445,000, in contrast to its U.S.
competitors that are cutting production and idling plants this summer.

Ford also said it plans to build 460,000 vehicles in the third
quarter, 42,000 more than in the third quarter of 2008.

Automakers are facing the worst U.S. sales climate in 27 years. The
companies and analysts are expecting are a rebound as the consumer
confidence improves, but there's concern that heavy incentives to are
inflating sales.

Ford said it decreased incentive spending in May but is launching a
new program, "Drive the Ford Difference," this month, in which the
company will pay three months of car payments, up to $2,100. Zero-
percent financing will also be available on some vehicles.

Shares of Ford rose 2 cents to $6.15 in midday trading.

(This version CORRECTS day to Tuesday, not Monday, at end of 2nd graf.)

On Jun 3, 11:07*am, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jun 2, 6:17?am, " wrote:
On Jun 2, 3:15?am, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

What do you think...is Ford next on the hit list?

TMT

Ford is not likely to go bankrupt, but will face a number of years of
low growth because of the government owning so much of GM. ?Government
purchases will likely favor GM. ?GM and Chrysler will have loans
available to purchase vehicles ?that are government subsidized. ?In
short the playing field is not likely to be level. ?But with the
government owning so much of GM, it is likely to be badly managed ( at
least for profit ) and is very likely to collapse.

Dan

I agree with you Dan.

I think Ford has some tough years ahead...very tough.

The big issue is whether or not people will start buying cars.

Ford is surviving on its trucks for the moment.

Considering that Chrysler/GM will be losing an enormous amount of
economic liability through the bankruptcy process while Ford still has
to service all of its commitments, you are right about the playing
field not being level.

They still don't make vehicles people want at prices that can sustain their mess.
they're failed. ford should have nothing to worry about.

As for pricing of vehicles, almost all vehicles are priced higher than
the public can afford as shown by the fact that most car loans are
today upside down.

TMT

On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:01:12 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:
snip
Considering that Chrysler/GM will be losing an enormous amount of
economic liability through the bankruptcy process while Ford still has
to service all of its commitments, you are right about the playing
field not being level.
snip
While this is correct, it also indicates that both GM and
Chrysler will have a very difficult time raising capital, even at
usurious rates. Their only lender may be the taxpayers, more or
less at the point of a [tax collector's] gun.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Jun 3, 12:21*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:01:12 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snipConsidering that Chrysler/GM will be losing an enormous amount of
economic liability through the bankruptcy process while Ford still has
to service all of its commitments, you are right about the playing
field not being level.

snip
While this is correct, it also indicates that both GM and
Chrysler will have a very difficult time raising capital, even at
usurious rates. *Their only lender may be the taxpayers, more or
less at the point of a [tax collector's] gun.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

You make a good point George.

With Hummer going to China and Chrysler being bought by Fiat, I think
that trend will continue.

We will see more domestic auto businesses going to foreign buyers.

The implications for the United States in reference to this trend is
not good.

TMT

On Jun 1, 9:15*pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
What do you think...is Ford next on the hit list?

TMT

The pieces of the automobile pie is being divided up...

Why am I reminded that it is easier to destroy than to create?

TMT

GM reaches deal to sell Saturn to Penske
By David Bailey David Bailey Fri Jun 5, 11:49 am ET

DETROIT (Reuters) – General Motors Corp has reached a preliminary
agreement to sell its Saturn brand to Penske Automotive Group in a
deal that could preserve more than 350 dealerships and 13,000 jobs,
the companies said on Friday.

The tentative deal for Saturn, which the companies hope to complete in
the third quarter, would be the second sale of a brand announced by GM
since it filed for bankruptcy on Monday in an effort to drop
unprofitable lines and leave court protection as a leaner company.

Penske, the No. 2 U.S. auto dealership group, would acquire rights to
the Saturn brand and other assets, while bankrupt GM would continue
production of the Saturn Aura, Vue and Outlook on a contract basis if
the transaction were completed, GM and Penske said. Terms were not
disclosed.

"This is a day that we have all been hoping would come together, since
probably the end of November when GM made its first viability plan,"
said Todd Ingersoll, a Saturn dealer from Connecticut and a member of
the Saturn dealer steering group.

GM created Saturn in 1984 to compete with Japanese vehicles in terms
of quality and service and initiated no-haggle flat-price sales for
its models. The Saturn brand has languished for the last decade, and
GM said in February that it would either be spun off or shut.

"The win for the Saturn team is that the brand lives and the win for
the retailers is our investment and our belief that we work for a
great company has been upheld by someone like (Penske Chairman) Roger
Penske, who really mirrors a lot of the Saturn beliefs, that customers
come first," Ingersoll said.

GM had said that more than a dozen buyers had expressed interest in
the Saturn brand and its retail network. Penske had also said it was
interested in the Saturn brand in early May.

GM plans to narrow its focus to the Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac
brands and trim its dealership network.

The automaker has notified about 1,100 dealerships that it would not
renew their long-term agreements after October 2010, and about 470
dealerships represent brands GM plans to trim from its lineup: Saturn,
Hummer, Saab and Pontiac.

Overall, GM expects to have about 3,600 dealerships, but executives
have said that figure is not etched in stone.

On Tuesday, GM announced plans to sell its Hummer brand to little-
known Chinese heavy equipment manufacturer Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy
Industrial Machinery.

Shares of Penske were up 45 cents, or 3.08 percent, at $15.05 Friday
on the New York Stock Exchange. GM shares are trading at 97.3 cents on
the Pink Sheets.

(Reporting by David Bailey; Editing by Steve Orlofsky and Gerald E.
McCormick)

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jun 3, 11:07?am, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jun 2, 6:17?am, " wrote:
On Jun 2, 3:15?am, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

What do you think...is Ford next on the hit list?

TMT

Ford is not likely to go bankrupt, but will face a number of years of
low growth because of the government owning so much of GM. ?Government
purchases will likely favor GM. ?GM and Chrysler will have loans
available to purchase vehicles ?that are government subsidized. ?In
short the playing field is not likely to be level. ?But with the
government owning so much of GM, it is likely to be badly managed ( at
least for profit ) and is very likely to collapse.

Dan

I agree with you Dan.

I think Ford has some tough years ahead...very tough.

The big issue is whether or not people will start buying cars.

Ford is surviving on its trucks for the moment.

Considering that Chrysler/GM will be losing an enormous amount of
economic liability through the bankruptcy process while Ford still has
to service all of its commitments, you are right about the playing
field not being level.

They still don't make vehicles people want at prices that can sustain their mess.
they're failed. ford should have nothing to worry about.

I disagree...Ford has a lot to worry about.

They have over $20 billion of debt to service.

And now they have to compete against two domestic manufacturers where
the Government has a vested interest in to get your tax dollars back.

bull****.

If the government had any interest in making money (back), they'd not be
buying up failed banks and auto makers.

governemnt is about wasting money, not making it or being efficient and
getting any sort of task at hand done.

On Jun 6, 1:38*am, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jun 3, 11:07?am, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jun 2, 6:17?am, " wrote:
On Jun 2, 3:15?am, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

What do you think...is Ford next on the hit list?

TMT

Ford is not likely to go bankrupt, but will face a number of years of
low growth because of the government owning so much of GM. ?Government
purchases will likely favor GM. ?GM and Chrysler will have loans
available to purchase vehicles ?that are government subsidized. ?In
short the playing field is not likely to be level. ?But with the
government owning so much of GM, it is likely to be badly managed ( at
least for profit ) and is very likely to collapse.

Dan

I agree with you Dan.

I think Ford has some tough years ahead...very tough.

The big issue is whether or not people will start buying cars.

Ford is surviving on its trucks for the moment.

Considering that Chrysler/GM will be losing an enormous amount of
economic liability through the bankruptcy process while Ford still has
to service all of its commitments, you are right about the playing
field not being level.

They still don't make vehicles people want at prices that can sustain their mess.
they're failed. ford should have nothing to worry about.

I disagree...Ford has a lot to worry about.

They have over $20 billion of debt to service.

And now they have to compete against two domestic manufacturers where
the Government has a vested interest in to get your tax dollars back.

bull****.

If the government had any interest in making money (back), they'd not be
buying up failed banks and auto makers.

governemnt is about wasting money, not making it or being efficient and
getting any sort of task at hand done.

Bull**** yourself.

Would you rather let them ALL fail?

Do you really understand what Bush did to this Country?

11 TRILLION dollars of wealth is GONE.

Would you like to see ALL the major banks shuttered?

Do you really think the Government can cover the accounts?

Would you like to see ALL the car companies shuttered?

Without the TRILLIONS that have been injected into the economy by the
Government, NO ONE would be buying a car.

If you look at history, the Government did nothing in the 1930s..and
we know how that worked out.

If you have a different plan, let's hear it.

TMT