"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
Poor old George...delusional to the end...kids...being a conservative
will do this to you.

Don't let your parents vote Republican if you love them.

Americans living under bridges agree.

TMT


Bush claims economy on track to recovery
By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer Tom Raum, Associated Press Writer
37 mins ago
WASHINGTON – President George W. Bush said Friday that while the
current economic crisis has sent shock waves around the world, he
believes steps taken by his administration have "laid the groundwork
for a return to economic growth and job creation" early in the
administration of President-elect Barack Obama.

"The American economy has consistently proven its strength and
resilience" Bush wrote in his final economic report to the nation.

He said this resilience has continued despite multiple blows to the
economy.

Bush's statement came at the beginning of the annual report of the
White House Council of Economic Advisers.

Those advisers predicted "a strong economic recovery early in the term
of the next administration."

Bush said that a combination of factors rose to "threaten the entire
financial system and generated a shock so large that its effects have
been felt throughout the global economy."

"Under ordinary circumstances, it would be preferable to allow the
free market to take its course and correct over time," he said. But,
Bush added, the potential financial damage to households and
businesses was so severe that "unprecedented government response was
the only responsible policy option."

"A measure of stability has returned to the financial system," Bush
said.

He warned that "temporary government programs" established to deal
with the crisis "must remain temporary and be unwound in an orderly
manner as soon as conditions warrant."

In the underlying economic report, Bush's economic advisers said that
while the economy had in fact proven itself " remarkably resilient"
over Bush's two-term presidency, there is a "risk that recent events
may overshadow the many positive developments of the past eight
years."

The advisers suggested that the economic downturn, reflected in the
half-percentage-point contraction in the gross domestic product in the
final quarter of 2008, will likely continue in the first half of 2009.
The White House panel noted that "most market forecasts" suggested a
recovery beginning in the second half of 2009 "that will gain momentum
in 2010 and beyond."

Looking ahead, the president's economic advisers said the global
financial crisis presents several remaining challenges for the U.S.
government: the need to modernize financial regulation, unwind
temporary programs, and develop a long-term solution for dealing with
mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, now essentially under
control of the government.

And Bush's advisers didn't miss an opportunity to put in a final
political plug for the president's unfinished agenda, just five days
before he leaves office.

"There remains considerable opportunity to strengthen our economic
position by eliminating the uncertainty surrounding tax relief that is
scheduled to expire."

It was a pitch to make permanent the Bush tax cuts that expire at the
end of next year.



==========

Circuit City to liquidate remaining US stores
By MICHAEL FELBERBAUM and VINNEE TONG, AP Business Writers Michael
Felberbaum And Vinnee Tong, Ap Business Writers 1 min ago
Bankrupt Circuit City Stores Inc., unable to work out a sale of the
company, said Friday it will go out of business — closing its 567 U.S.
stores and cutting 30,000 jobs.

The nation's second-biggest consumer electronics retailer is the
latest casualty of an unprecedented pullback in consumer spending that
has driven other brands such as KB Toys, Mervyns LLC and Linens 'N
Things into bankruptcy. Experts believe there will be more to come.

"This is the only possible path for our company," Circuit City's
acting Chief Executive James A. Marcum said in a statement. "We are
extremely disappointed by this outcome."

The company had been seeking a buyer or a deal to refinance its debt,
but the hobbled credit market and consumer worries proved
insurmountable. Negotiations for an acquisition went past midnight on
Thursday, a Circuit City lawyer said in court.

Two buyers — Mexican billionaire Ricardo Salinas Pliego, who controls
a chain of electronics stores in Latin America, and the Golden Gate
Capital private equity firm — had been looking to buy the company in a
shrunken form, with either 350 stores or as few as 180 stores. But the
company couldn't secure the necessary financing or support from
vendors.

Employees were being notified Friday that they would lose their jobs
and, if a judge gives final approval to the liquidation, stores would
begin the closing process as early as Saturday.

"Regrettably for the more than 30,000 employees of Circuit City and
our loyal customers, we were unable to reach an agreement with our
creditors and lenders," Marcum said.

Shareholders are likely to receive nothing, as is typical in
bankruptcy cases. Circuit City said in court papers it has appointed
Great American Group LLC, Hudson Capital Partners LLC, SB Capital
Group LLC and Tiger Capital Group LLC as liquidators. They provide for
70.5 percent return on merchandise.

It was unclear what would happen to the company's 765 retail stores
and dealer outlets in Canada. Circuit City lawyer Gregg Galardi of
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP told a judge there are still
bids for the Canadian business.

"Very, very sad," said Alan L. Wurtzel, the son of company founder
Samuel S. Wurtzel, and the chief executive from 1972 to 1986, board
chairman from 1986 to 1994 and vice chairman until 2001. "I feel
particularly badly for the people are employed or until recently were
employed."

Wurtzel has previously said Circuit City didn't take the threat of
rival Best Buy Co. seriously enough and, at some points, were too
focused on making a profit in the short term instead of building long-
term value.

Credit Suisse analyst Gary Balter told investors that Circuit City's
demise will help Best Buy cement its position as the market leader.

"Losing Circuit (City) and what had previously been an $11 billion
business, in addition to share gains from other smaller outlets,
should help to partially offset weaker consumer spending as well as
further secure Best Buy's position as the leader in the space," he
said.

The liquidation of Circuit City follows the worst holiday shopping
season in four decades. People have slashed their spending since the
financial meltdown in September as they worry about their job security
and declining retirement funds.

KB Toys filed for bankruptcy in December and is liquidating stores.
Department store chains Goody's Family Clothing and Gottschalks Inc.
both filed for bankruptcy this week — Goody's plans to liquidate,
while Gottschalks hopes to reorganize. Industry experts expect more
bad news in the coming months as spending likely will deteriorate
further.

The Circuit City move will also hurt the nation's malls, which have
suffered from the rise in vacancies as other chains have liquidated.
But analysts say that the demise of Circuit City, whose stores range
in size from 20,000 to 25,000 square feet, will hurt the fortunes of
mall operators even more.

"It will bring to market a glut of big box spaces across the country,"
said John Bemis, head of Jones Lang LaSalle Inc.'s retail leasing
team. "It will have one of the largest impacts on big box real estate
across the country."

Circuit City filed for Chapter 11 in November as vendors started to
restrict the flow of merchandise ahead of the busy holiday shopping
season. It had been exploring its options since May, when it opened
its books to Blockbuster Inc. The Dallas-based movie-rental chain made
a takeover bid of more than $1 billion with plans to create a chain to
sell electronic gadgets and rent movies and games. Blockbuster
withdrew the bid in July.

Circuit City, which said it had $3.4 billion in assets and $2.32
billion in liabilities as of Aug. 31, said in its initial filings that
it planned to emerge from court protection in the first half of this
year.

Under court protection, it broke 150 leases at locations where it no
longer operates stores and closed 155 stores in the U.S. in November
and December. But it also got permission from U.S. Bankruptcy Judge
Kevin Huennekens to liquidate if the company could not find a buyer.

___

AP Retail Writer Anne D'Innocenzio contributed to this report.

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:18:17 -0600, "Libby Loo"
wrote:
snip
Bush claims economy on track to recovery
By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer Tom Raum, Associated Press Writer
snip

First define "the economy," and "people." It may well be under
their definitions this is indeed true.


The 700 billion TARP fund has been more or less expended, and not
a single "toxic asset" has been purchased, except possibly
through the Fed's discount window [which is *NOT* part of TARP,
although still on the taxpayers' dime].

Now there is to be yet another effort to purchase and sequester
these toxic assets with tax payers money.
============
Paulson, Bair Raise ‘Aggregator Bank’ for Toxic Debt (Update1)

By Rebecca Christie

Jan. 16 (Bloomberg) -- The heads of the U.S. Treasury and Federal
Deposit Insurance Corp. gave further momentum to the idea of a
new government-backed bank to remove toxic assets from lenders’
balance sheets.
----------------
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=worldwide


Note that almost all of the companies receiving bailout funds
maintain divisions in low/no tax jurisdictions. How much tax
evasion is occurring? How much of the rescue money would up in
these secret accounts? No one knows.
=========
Jan 16, 6:28 PM (ET)

By KEN THOMAS

WASHINGTON (AP) - Eighty-three of the nation's 100 largest
corporations, including Citigroup, Bank of America and News Corp.
(NWSA), had subsidiaries in offshore tax havens in 2007, and some
of the companies received federal bailout funding, a government
watchdog said Friday.

The Government Accountability Office released a report that said
Bank of America Inc., Citigroup Inc. (C) and Morgan Stanley (MS)
all had more than 100 units in countries that maintain low or no
taxes. The three financial institutions were included in the $700
billion financial bailout approved by Congress.

Insurance giant American International Group Inc. (AIG), which
has received about $150 billion in bailout money, had 18
subsidiaries. JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM) had 50 units and Wells
Fargo & Co. (WFC) had 18; both financial institutions received
government bailout money.
snip
Citigroup had 427 units in 23 countries, including 91
subsidiaries in Luxembourg and 90 in the Cayman Islands. Morgan
Stanley had 273 units, News Corp. had 152 and Bank of America had
115. Procter & Gamble Co. had 83 subsidiaries and Pfizer Inc. had
80 in the jurisdictions.
snip
---------------
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090116/D95OHIB80.html



The banks are about to be back with tin cup in hand
-----------
Harsh turn of fortunes for 2 huge U.S. banks
By Matthew Saltmarsh and Eric Dash
Published: January 16, 2009

Citigroup capped a devastating 2008 by announcing Friday that it
would split into two entities and that it had posted a $8.29
billion loss for the fourth quarter.

Citigroup's rival, Bank of America, posted a more modest loss of
$1.79 billion during the same period, just hours after receiving
a new infusion of government support that could end up costing
more than $100 billion.

But underlining the depth of the problems that have emerged from
Bank of America's acquisition of Merrill Lynch, Merrill had a net
loss of $15.31 billion, or $9.62 a share, in the fourth quarter,
"driven by severe capital markets dislocations," before the
acquisition was completed, Bank of America said. Merrill's
results for the fourth quarter were not a part of Bank of
America's. The merger of the two banks closed on Jan. 1.

Even as Bank of America was coping with the challenge of
absorbing Merrill, Citigroup was announcing the latest steps in
dismantling its own financial supermarket. Citigroup confirmed
that it would divide, for management purposes, into two separate
businesses - Citicorp and Citi Holdings. Citicorp will focus on
international banking, while Citi Holdings will comprise the
brokerage, asset management and consumer finance businesses.

Citigroup, the umbrella company, will remain intact for now. "We
believe there is a lot of value in having them focused," Vikram
Pandit, the chief executive, said, referring to his plan to split
up Citigroup. "We are not in a rush to sell businesses." Pandit
agreed this past week to split off Smith Barney, Citigroup's
valuable retail brokerage arm, into a joint venture with Morgan
Stanley to raise capital so that it could offset the fourth
quarter's huge losses.
snip
-----------------
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/...i.4-409630.php


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:18:17 -0600, "Libby Loo"
wrote:
snip
Bush claims economy on track to recovery
By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer Tom Raum, Associated Press Writer
snip

First define "the economy," and "people." It may well be under
their definitions this is indeed true.


The 700 billion TARP fund has been more or less expended, and not
a single "toxic asset" has been purchased, except possibly
through the Fed's discount window [which is *NOT* part of TARP,
although still on the taxpayers' dime].

Now there is to be yet another effort to purchase and sequester
these toxic assets with tax payers money.
============
Paulson, Bair Raise 'Aggregator Bank' for Toxic Debt (Update1)

By Rebecca Christie

Jan. 16 (Bloomberg) -- The heads of the U.S. Treasury and Federal
Deposit Insurance Corp. gave further momentum to the idea of a
new government-backed bank to remove toxic assets from lenders'
balance sheets.
----------------

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=worldwide


Note that almost all of the companies receiving bailout funds
maintain divisions in low/no tax jurisdictions. How much tax
evasion is occurring? How much of the rescue money would up in
these secret accounts? No one knows.
=========
Jan 16, 6:28 PM (ET)

By KEN THOMAS

WASHINGTON (AP) - Eighty-three of the nation's 100 largest
corporations, including Citigroup, Bank of America and News Corp.
(NWSA), had subsidiaries in offshore tax havens in 2007, and some
of the companies received federal bailout funding, a government
watchdog said Friday.

The Government Accountability Office released a report that said
Bank of America Inc., Citigroup Inc. (C) and Morgan Stanley (MS)
all had more than 100 units in countries that maintain low or no
taxes. The three financial institutions were included in the $700
billion financial bailout approved by Congress.

Insurance giant American International Group Inc. (AIG), which
has received about $150 billion in bailout money, had 18
subsidiaries. JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM) had 50 units and Wells
Fargo & Co. (WFC) had 18; both financial institutions received
government bailout money.
snip
Citigroup had 427 units in 23 countries, including 91
subsidiaries in Luxembourg and 90 in the Cayman Islands. Morgan
Stanley had 273 units, News Corp. had 152 and Bank of America had
115. Procter & Gamble Co. had 83 subsidiaries and Pfizer Inc. had
80 in the jurisdictions.
snip
---------------
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090116/D95OHIB80.html



The banks are about to be back with tin cup in hand
-----------
Harsh turn of fortunes for 2 huge U.S. banks
By Matthew Saltmarsh and Eric Dash
Published: January 16, 2009

Citigroup capped a devastating 2008 by announcing Friday that it
would split into two entities and that it had posted a $8.29
billion loss for the fourth quarter.

Citigroup's rival, Bank of America, posted a more modest loss of
$1.79 billion during the same period, just hours after receiving
a new infusion of government support that could end up costing
more than $100 billion.

But underlining the depth of the problems that have emerged from
Bank of America's acquisition of Merrill Lynch, Merrill had a net
loss of $15.31 billion, or $9.62 a share, in the fourth quarter,
"driven by severe capital markets dislocations," before the
acquisition was completed, Bank of America said. Merrill's
results for the fourth quarter were not a part of Bank of
America's. The merger of the two banks closed on Jan. 1.

Even as Bank of America was coping with the challenge of
absorbing Merrill, Citigroup was announcing the latest steps in
dismantling its own financial supermarket. Citigroup confirmed
that it would divide, for management purposes, into two separate
businesses - Citicorp and Citi Holdings. Citicorp will focus on
international banking, while Citi Holdings will comprise the
brokerage, asset management and consumer finance businesses.

Citigroup, the umbrella company, will remain intact for now. "We
believe there is a lot of value in having them focused," Vikram
Pandit, the chief executive, said, referring to his plan to split
up Citigroup. "We are not in a rush to sell businesses." Pandit
agreed this past week to split off Smith Barney, Citigroup's
valuable retail brokerage arm, into a joint venture with Morgan
Stanley to raise capital so that it could offset the fourth
quarter's huge losses.
snip


This just goes to show you the devastation that free market capitalism has
brought to the country. How many years have we heard the republicans tell us
that free markets are the path to prosperity? After seeing what the free
market Bush and Co. has brought us you would think that maybe we've finally
learned once and for all the dangers of the free market. We have been doing
the same thing since the 1920s when we had a similar free market free for
all, which started with a great boom and ended with the Great Depression.
Now we have done virtually the same thing again, with republicans, as usual,
leading the way, and have similar results. Maybe the Europeans are right. It
does seem that they do not experience the same extreme boom and bust cycles
that we do. They have stopped allowing completely free markets to do the
extremes they always do in favor of lower growth, more economic equality,
and more governmental control. After all this mess we're in ...again, one
can only wonder if the free marketeers will be able to convince that their
ways are the best for the regular folks. Only time will tell.

Hawke

On Jan 16, 11:21*pm, "Hawke" wrote:
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in messagenews:r8k2n4p1q3isooahvke6gjm27aras5lb1g@4ax .com...

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:18:17 -0600, "Libby Loo"
wrote:
snip
Bush claims economy on track to recovery
By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer Tom Raum, Associated Press Writer
snip

First define "the economy," and "people." *It may well be under
their definitions this is indeed true.

The 700 billion TARP fund has been more or less expended, and not
a single "toxic asset" has been purchased, except possibly
through the Fed's discount window [which is *NOT* part of TARP,
although still on the taxpayers' dime].

Now there is to be yet another effort to purchase and sequester
these toxic assets with tax payers money.
============
Paulson, Bair Raise 'Aggregator Bank' for Toxic Debt (Update1)

By Rebecca Christie

Jan. 16 (Bloomberg) -- The heads of the U.S. Treasury and Federal
Deposit Insurance Corp. gave further momentum to the idea of a
new government-backed bank to remove toxic assets from lenders'
balance sheets.
----------------

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...NKVDnUKMA&refe....





Note that almost all of the companies receiving bailout funds
maintain divisions in low/no tax jurisdictions. *How much tax
evasion is occurring? How much of the rescue money would up in
these secret accounts? No one knows.
=========
Jan 16, 6:28 PM (ET)

By KEN THOMAS

WASHINGTON (AP) - Eighty-three of the nation's 100 largest
corporations, including Citigroup, Bank of America and News Corp.
(NWSA), had subsidiaries in offshore tax havens in 2007, and some
of the companies received federal bailout funding, a government
watchdog said Friday.

The Government Accountability Office released a report that said
Bank of America Inc., Citigroup Inc. (C) and Morgan Stanley (MS)
all had more than 100 units in countries that maintain low or no
taxes. The three financial institutions were included in the $700
billion financial bailout approved by Congress.

Insurance giant American International Group Inc. (AIG), which
has received about $150 billion in bailout money, had 18
subsidiaries. JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM) had 50 units and Wells
Fargo & Co. (WFC) had 18; both financial institutions received
government bailout money.
snip
Citigroup had 427 units in 23 countries, including 91
subsidiaries in Luxembourg and 90 in the Cayman Islands. Morgan
Stanley had 273 units, News Corp. had 152 and Bank of America had
115. Procter & Gamble Co. had 83 subsidiaries and Pfizer Inc. had
80 in the jurisdictions.
snip
---------------
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090116/D95OHIB80.html

The banks are about to be back with tin cup in hand
-----------
Harsh turn of fortunes for 2 huge U.S. banks
By Matthew Saltmarsh and Eric Dash
Published: January 16, 2009

Citigroup capped a devastating 2008 by announcing Friday that it
would split into two entities and that it had posted a $8.29
billion loss for the fourth quarter.

Citigroup's rival, Bank of America, posted a more modest loss of
$1.79 billion during the same period, just hours after receiving
a new infusion of government support that could end up costing
more than $100 billion.

But underlining the depth of the problems that have emerged from
Bank of America's acquisition of Merrill Lynch, Merrill had a net
loss of $15.31 billion, or $9.62 a share, in the fourth quarter,
"driven by severe capital markets dislocations," before the
acquisition was completed, Bank of America said. Merrill's
results for the fourth quarter were not a part of Bank of
America's. The merger of the two banks closed on Jan. 1.

Even as Bank of America was coping with the challenge of
absorbing Merrill, Citigroup was announcing the latest steps in
dismantling its own financial supermarket. Citigroup confirmed
that it would divide, for management purposes, into two separate
businesses - Citicorp and Citi Holdings. Citicorp will focus on
international banking, while Citi Holdings will comprise the
brokerage, asset management and consumer finance businesses.

Citigroup, the umbrella company, will remain intact for now. "We
believe there is a lot of value in having them focused," Vikram
Pandit, the chief executive, said, referring to his plan to split
up Citigroup. "We are not in a rush to sell businesses." Pandit
agreed this past week to split off Smith Barney, Citigroup's
valuable retail brokerage arm, into a joint venture with Morgan
Stanley to raise capital so that it could offset the fourth
quarter's huge losses.
snip

This just goes to show you the devastation that free market capitalism has
brought to the country. How many years have we heard the republicans tell us
that free markets are the path to prosperity? After seeing what the free
market Bush and Co. has brought us you would think that maybe we've finally
learned once and for all the dangers of the free market. We have been doing
the same thing since the 1920s when we had a similar free market free for
all, which started with a great boom and ended with the Great Depression.
Now we have done virtually the same thing again, with republicans, as usual,
leading the way, and have similar results. Maybe the Europeans are right. It
does seem that they do not experience the same extreme boom and bust cycles
that we do. They have stopped allowing completely free markets to do the
extremes they always do in favor of lower growth, more economic equality,
and more governmental control. After all this mess we're in ...again, one
can only wonder if the free marketeers will be able to convince that their
ways are the best for the regular folks. Only time will tell.

Hawke


Our western economic environment is anything but a free capitalistic
market. In fact it is closely controlled to the benefit of the "major
players". A good book on this topic is "The Mystery of Money"
available on line.

If the markets were free all the bankrupt banks would have been
allowed to fail, and tough luck. Small-time depositors with retail
banks were insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation to the
limit of $100,000.00 per depositor per bank, until recently. If you
had more than a hundred grand simply divide and deposit in multiple
banks.

There is a substantial group of thinkers that believe that this
scenario would have been the best, and the downturn would have been
short but painful, with corrective action being forced onto the
financial industry.

As it stands now none of this corrective action will happen because of
the positive reinforcement received from to bail-outs, which sends
exactly the wrong message. And look what the effect of these bail-
outs are to-date: Completely negative except for the pockets of the
perpetrators/friends of the federal money squanderers.

Another false claim is that ours is a capitalistic system. I see no
evidence of this since practically all businesses use 100% credit, and
50% of the public does so. (observation on my part... the old fly now
pay later thing).

Consider the basics: Capital, which is retained earnings and
savings. Who relies on this today? Certainly not enough. Borrowing,
ie. using other people's money may be clever and profitable for some,
but if "everybody" does it.... you can see the results now.

With the gazillions of $$$ being issued to the major banks a colossal
financial disaster is being foisted on the unsuspecting masses, and
the only reason this hasn't resulted into massive inflation is that
the velocity of money is zero right now ie. banks won't lend because
of fear of default.

But inflation will happen once people start borrowing and buying again
in 2 or 3 years time (my guess) when the old car or TV or whatever
crap out. And banks need to lend eventually to make some income.
This will open the spigot to all that pent-up money driving prices sky-
high. To control this the government will increase interest bringing
everything to a crashing halt.

What we are in for are undamped harmonic oscillations with the
original force being all that coin issued to the banks by the
government. Once the spigot is opened... watch out for the deluge.

Wolfgang

On Jan 17, 9:39*am, wrote:
On Jan 16, 11:21*pm, "Hawke" wrote:





"F. George McDuffee" wrote in messagenews:r8k2n4p1q3isooahvke6gjm27aras5lb1g@4ax .com...

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:18:17 -0600, "Libby Loo"
wrote:
snip
Bush claims economy on track to recovery
By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer Tom Raum, Associated Press Writer
snip

First define "the economy," and "people." *It may well be under
their definitions this is indeed true.

The 700 billion TARP fund has been more or less expended, and not
a single "toxic asset" has been purchased, except possibly
through the Fed's discount window [which is *NOT* part of TARP,
although still on the taxpayers' dime].

Now there is to be yet another effort to purchase and sequester
these toxic assets with tax payers money.
============
Paulson, Bair Raise 'Aggregator Bank' for Toxic Debt (Update1)

By Rebecca Christie

Jan. 16 (Bloomberg) -- The heads of the U.S. Treasury and Federal
Deposit Insurance Corp. gave further momentum to the idea of a
new government-backed bank to remove toxic assets from lenders'
balance sheets.
----------------

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...NKVDnUKMA&refe...

Note that almost all of the companies receiving bailout funds
maintain divisions in low/no tax jurisdictions. *How much tax
evasion is occurring? How much of the rescue money would up in
these secret accounts? No one knows.
=========
Jan 16, 6:28 PM (ET)

By KEN THOMAS

WASHINGTON (AP) - Eighty-three of the nation's 100 largest
corporations, including Citigroup, Bank of America and News Corp.
(NWSA), had subsidiaries in offshore tax havens in 2007, and some
of the companies received federal bailout funding, a government
watchdog said Friday.

The Government Accountability Office released a report that said
Bank of America Inc., Citigroup Inc. (C) and Morgan Stanley (MS)
all had more than 100 units in countries that maintain low or no
taxes. The three financial institutions were included in the $700
billion financial bailout approved by Congress.

Insurance giant American International Group Inc. (AIG), which
has received about $150 billion in bailout money, had 18
subsidiaries. JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM) had 50 units and Wells
Fargo & Co. (WFC) had 18; both financial institutions received
government bailout money.
snip
Citigroup had 427 units in 23 countries, including 91
subsidiaries in Luxembourg and 90 in the Cayman Islands. Morgan
Stanley had 273 units, News Corp. had 152 and Bank of America had
115. Procter & Gamble Co. had 83 subsidiaries and Pfizer Inc. had
80 in the jurisdictions.
snip
---------------
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090116/D95OHIB80.html

The banks are about to be back with tin cup in hand
-----------
Harsh turn of fortunes for 2 huge U.S. banks
By Matthew Saltmarsh and Eric Dash
Published: January 16, 2009

Citigroup capped a devastating 2008 by announcing Friday that it
would split into two entities and that it had posted a $8.29
billion loss for the fourth quarter.

Citigroup's rival, Bank of America, posted a more modest loss of
$1.79 billion during the same period, just hours after receiving
a new infusion of government support that could end up costing
more than $100 billion.

But underlining the depth of the problems that have emerged from
Bank of America's acquisition of Merrill Lynch, Merrill had a net
loss of $15.31 billion, or $9.62 a share, in the fourth quarter,
"driven by severe capital markets dislocations," before the
acquisition was completed, Bank of America said. Merrill's
results for the fourth quarter were not a part of Bank of
America's. The merger of the two banks closed on Jan. 1.

Even as Bank of America was coping with the challenge of
absorbing Merrill, Citigroup was announcing the latest steps in
dismantling its own financial supermarket. Citigroup confirmed
that it would divide, for management purposes, into two separate
businesses - Citicorp and Citi Holdings. Citicorp will focus on
international banking, while Citi Holdings will comprise the
brokerage, asset management and consumer finance businesses.

Citigroup, the umbrella company, will remain intact for now. "We
believe there is a lot of value in having them focused," Vikram
Pandit, the chief executive, said, referring to his plan to split
up Citigroup. "We are not in a rush to sell businesses." Pandit
agreed this past week to split off Smith Barney, Citigroup's
valuable retail brokerage arm, into a joint venture with Morgan
Stanley to raise capital so that it could offset the fourth
quarter's huge losses.
snip

This just goes to show you the devastation that free market capitalism has
brought to the country. How many years have we heard the republicans tell us
that free markets are the path to prosperity? After seeing what the free
market Bush and Co. has brought us you would think that maybe we've finally
learned once and for all the dangers of the free market. We have been doing
the same thing since the 1920s when we had a similar free market free for
all, which started with a great boom and ended with the Great Depression.

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:21:05 -0800, "Hawke"
wrote:
snip
Maybe the Europeans are right. It
does seem that they do not experience the same extreme boom and bust cycles
that we do. They have stopped allowing completely free markets to do the
extremes they always do in favor of lower growth, more economic equality,
and more governmental control.
snip
-------------------
While all this sounds good, it appears that most of the EEC banks
"invested" in the CDO securities, derivatives and other "schemes"
and other European banks such as Iceland have bankrupted their
entire countries.

The US media bears much of the responsibility for failing to
include global information, even though we are now in a global
economy.

England has overtly nationalized several of their largest banks
and is undergoing a huge surge in bankruptcies, Germany and Spain
also appear to be hard hit. Even Switzerland is in serious
economic trouble.

Remember as you scan the articles below that there are huge
difference in the population sizes between those countries and
the US, therefore on a per capita basis their bailouts are even
greater.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-bad-debt.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...nk-scheme.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-minister.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/middle_east/7834829.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/business/7832203.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/business/7827824.stm
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aK8qpW7Viaog

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aoOxcqP9qwv0
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=awbSSx.rEmxQ
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a0OcMVvHx8gg
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aEmWlKXc8q4c

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aAd7rF18UuX4
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7673159.stm

Whatever the bankers (and regulators) were smoking, it is clear
they passed plenty of it around.

Whatever the root cause, and this is still an open question
because much of the data/information remains hidden, it is a
global problem, infecting even command driven economies such as
PR China.

My personal feeling is that this is not the result of some grand
conspiracy, but rather the net result of a thousand little things
that went wrong, but because of the global nature of the economy
and "group think" of our "financial masters of the universe,"
these all ==went wrong at the same time and aligned/cascaded in
the same direction.== Another useful way to think of the
problem is that a bunch of incompetent "sorcerer's apprentices"
got together and managed to evoke and loose forces they [and no
one else] understands nor can control, and it is now necessary
for everyone to simply wait until whatever it is gets tired of
smashing things and goes home.

Because of their refusal to provide any hard data or other
information about what went wrong, and the continued expenditure
of enormous such of bailout/rescue funds with no apparent
results, it would appear necessary to summarily remove the
existing executives and directors of the affected [infected?]
organizations for cause, while sequestering their "severance
payments," and "deferred compensation," until a forensic audit is
completed. [Contracts obtained by fraud are generally void in
most jurisdictions.]


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 07:39:10 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
snip
What we are in for are undamped harmonic oscillations with the
original force being all that coin issued to the banks by the
government. Once the spigot is opened... watch out for the deluge.

Wolfgang
--------------
It is impossible to tell if this is a correct analysis.

What should be apparent is that the central banks are like the
reckless [or stupid] welder that is cutting into a tank with
torch. No one knows what the tank contains, because no one wants
to make the study, but keep urging the welder on because they
want a hole in the tank (to let the money out).

It is a recipe for disaster.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Jan 17, 1:15*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 07:39:10 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
snipWhat we are in for are undamped harmonic oscillations with the
original force being all that coin issued to the banks by the
government. *Once the spigot is opened... watch out for the deluge.

Wolfgang

--------------
It is impossible to tell if this i. s a correct analysis*

What should be apparent is that the central banks are like the
reckless [or stupid] welder that is cutting into a tank with
torch. *No one knows what the tank contains, because no one wants
to make the study, but keep urging the welder on because they
want a hole in the tank (to let the money out).

It is a recipe for disaster.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).



It is impossible to tell if this is a correct analysis .

Agreed. If I were able to predict the future I would play the stock
market and not write he-))

I ran my scenario past a PhD in economics last night at a society
dinner. He liked the analogy. How governments react is of course
anyone's guess.

Wolfgang