I'm still working on the neverending project of moving my stock rack
to the unheated warehouse side of my shop. I will have to cut a
doorway through the brick wall. I'm thinking at least a 36" single
door. Also considering a double wide door I could get the forklift
through. top of the roll cage is 7'3" (87") Since a std door is
only 6'8" I need extra tall. anyone have a door like this in their
shop or where you work? Are they available?

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Randy fired this volley in
:

Also considering a double wide door I could get the forklift
through. top of the roll cage is 7'3" (87") Since a std door is
only 6'8" I need extra tall. anyone have a door like this in their
shop or where you work? Are they available?


Custom-sized doors are only a few tens of bucks more than standards,
so long as you don't mind the three-or-so week wait.

We use 3'6" (standard height) doors in our factory, so people can
carry 32" wide product trays through without banging the jambs. They
cost about $50 more (size-for-size) than a standard door would.

LLoyd

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:04:53 -0500, Randy wrote:

I'm still working on the neverending project of moving my stock rack
to the unheated warehouse side of my shop. I will have to cut a
doorway through the brick wall. I'm thinking at least a 36" single
door. Also considering a double wide door I could get the forklift
through. top of the roll cage is 7'3" (87") Since a std door is
only 6'8" I need extra tall. anyone have a door like this in their
shop or where you work? Are they available?

A door that just fits in eight foot studs is almost as standard. I got
double ones so that i just use one as the walk door and open the other
for forklift passage. You may have to wait a couple days for delivery,
but price is about the same.

Karl

The standard steel firedoors are available in all sorts of sizes. Our
lab area has 36"x 78" doors, double 36x78" with no mullion, double
36x78" with the divider mullion, double 42"x84" with no divider, and a
monster 42"x96" double with no divider. I've seen 48" widths as well.

The new price on these is horrible. I don't have current prices but I'd
expect numbers well above $1000 for a double door setup. They are
sometimes available at one of the used/seconds building materials places
for much more reasonable prices. I have several places locally
(Minnesota) that stock them used.

If you buy used, you should know that the door AND the frame are
considered one unit as far as meeting fire code. For hobbyist level or
small commercial where the door is not used as a fire block, this is not
an issue.

You might be in for a shock when you try and install these sorts of
doors. We had to take several of these off the hinges to move equipment.
Each door took 3 of us to remove or install, they are that heavy and
clumsy.

Randy wrote:
I'm still working on the neverending project of moving my stock rack
to the unheated warehouse side of my shop. I will have to cut a
doorway through the brick wall. I'm thinking at least a 36" single
door. Also considering a double wide door I could get the forklift
through. top of the roll cage is 7'3" (87") Since a std door is
only 6'8" I need extra tall. anyone have a door like this in their
shop or where you work? Are they available?

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

In article ,
Randy wrote:

I'm still working on the neverending project of moving my stock rack
to the unheated warehouse side of my shop. I will have to cut a
doorway through the brick wall. I'm thinking at least a 36" single
door. Also considering a double wide door I could get the forklift
through. top of the roll cage is 7'3" (87") Since a std door is
only 6'8" I need extra tall. anyone have a door like this in their
shop or where you work? Are they available?

I'd suggest (assuming you have the vertical on the building) an
insulated (since you are going between heated and non-heated)
garage-type door - IIRC the Overhead Door folks (and presumably most
others) were entirely happy to cut one to whatever size I liked - and I
think you will want more height, if you are ever going to run the
forklift through the door with a load on.

As for cutting a door or two in a brick wall, just make sure you
engineer that job so you still have a wall when you are done...

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

In article ,
Randy wrote:

I'm still working on the neverending project of moving my stock
rack
to the unheated warehouse side of my shop. I will have to cut a
doorway through the brick wall. I'm thinking at least a 36" single
door. Also considering a double wide door I could get the forklift
through. top of the roll cage is 7'3" (87") Since a std door is
only 6'8" I need extra tall. anyone have a door like this in
their
shop or where you work? Are they available?


Y'know... after thinking this over, I've come to the conclusion what
you really need to do is build a door; a rolling (top-track) barn-
style door.

You can open it exactly as far as you need to for ingress/egress,
it'll be open for the entire height floor-to-top plate, and the
hardware is less expensive than a suitable door would be.

LLoyd

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:11:39 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:


In article ,
Randy wrote:

I'm still working on the neverending project of moving my stock
rack
to the unheated warehouse side of my shop. I will have to cut a
doorway through the brick wall. I'm thinking at least a 36" single
door. Also considering a double wide door I could get the forklift
through. top of the roll cage is 7'3" (87") Since a std door is
only 6'8" I need extra tall. anyone have a door like this in
their
shop or where you work? Are they available?


Y'know... after thinking this over, I've come to the conclusion what
you really need to do is build a door; a rolling (top-track) barn-
style door.

You can open it exactly as far as you need to for ingress/egress,
it'll be open for the entire height floor-to-top plate, and the
hardware is less expensive than a suitable door would be.

LLoyd

I've never seen a door like that with any type of seals or insulation.
Would be cheap to make though....

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

You don't, by chance, have a Habitat for Humanity surplus retail outlet or
some other architectural salvage store near you ? I often see oversize
doors, complete with really heavy-duty hardware, from remodeled medical and
commercial/industrial facilities at such places near me in western NC and
upstate SC.

David Merrill

"Randy" wrote in message
...
I'm still working on the neverending project of moving my stock rack
to the unheated warehouse side of my shop. I will have to cut a
doorway through the brick wall. I'm thinking at least a 36" single
door. Also considering a double wide door I could get the forklift
through. top of the roll cage is 7'3" (87") Since a std door is
only 6'8" I need extra tall. anyone have a door like this in their
shop or where you work? Are they available?

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Randy fired this volley in
:

I've never seen a door like that with any type of seals or
insulation.
Would be cheap to make though....



All the time, are they made with seals and insulation.

The secret to getting them to seal well is to use lip or welt seals,
and cause the door to 'jam' into a ramp-type closer at the end of its
roll.

The edge of the door is simply squeezed shut in the last 1/2" or so of
travel. The top gasket is always pressed snug against a wear strip
(so it doesn't scrub off the gasket.

Insulating them is as simple as making the door like a wall panel, and
stuffing it.

(we use them on our chemical storage sheds, which must be climate
controlled)

I've seen another such door that didn't use the 'squeeze' method. It
had ledges all-round, and simply butted up against welt seals.

LLoyd

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:04:53 -0500, Randy wrote:

I'm still working on the neverending project of moving my stock rack
to the unheated warehouse side of my shop. I will have to cut a
doorway through the brick wall. I'm thinking at least a 36" single
door. Also considering a double wide door I could get the forklift
through. top of the roll cage is 7'3" (87") Since a std door is
only 6'8" I need extra tall. anyone have a door like this in their
shop or where you work? Are they available?

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Vertical sectional garage door for a house - and they can easily add
an extra panel to make it taller, and supply a torsion spring and
snail drum that will handle the taller door. Available insulated and
weatherstripped, and/or with a window panel.

And you can use a box stock electric garage door opener on it, too -
just hit the button from the comfort of the forklift seat... But you
need to get one that has a longer screw or chain to handle the longer
travel. Most electric openers have extension kits available for a
nominal charge.

Don't forget to header off the wall before cutting the hole for the
door - and at a minimum it really should be professionally engineered
by an architect - you don't want anyone getting killed by pieces of
falling wall.

The ugly way is to build a permanent steel frame that is bolted to
the inside of the wall and then the doorway cut out. They do that all
the time on "tilt-up" concrete industrial buildings.

The slick way is to make the temporary frame to support the wall
while you work, cut an oversized hole, then build a permanent steel
frame inside the opening that has the proper steel header beam and
king posts. Then you can take off the temporary and it looks like it
was built that way.

(You might have to dig and pour post footers at each end if there's
enough concentrated load there, especially if you have sandy or poorly
compacted or expansive soil under the building. You could make the
mod and a few months later the building starts falling apart... That's
one of the reasons why you really need an architect to at least look
it over.)

Or you can make the temporary support and oversized hole, then put
in a precast concrete header beam camouflaged with face brick, and
redo all the brickwork to add tied-in masonry kingposts on each side.
But now you're getting into 'gilding the lily' territory.

-- Bruce --

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:07:06 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:04:53 -0500, Randy wrote:

I'm still working on the neverending project of moving my stock rack
to the unheated warehouse side of my shop. I will have to cut a
doorway through the brick wall. I'm thinking at least a 36" single
door. Also considering a double wide door I could get the forklift
through. top of the roll cage is 7'3" (87") Since a std door is
only 6'8" I need extra tall. anyone have a door like this in their
shop or where you work? Are they available?

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Vertical sectional garage door for a house - and they can easily add
an extra panel to make it taller, and supply a torsion spring and
snail drum that will handle the taller door. Available insulated and
weatherstripped, and/or with a window panel.

And you can use a box stock electric garage door opener on it, too -
just hit the button from the comfort of the forklift seat... But you
need to get one that has a longer screw or chain to handle the longer
travel. Most electric openers have extension kits available for a
nominal charge.

Don't forget to header off the wall before cutting the hole for the
door - and at a minimum it really should be professionally engineered
by an architect - you don't want anyone getting killed by pieces of
falling wall.

The ugly way is to build a permanent steel frame that is bolted to
the inside of the wall and then the doorway cut out. They do that all
the time on "tilt-up" concrete industrial buildings.

The slick way is to make the temporary frame to support the wall
while you work, cut an oversized hole, then build a permanent steel
frame inside the opening that has the proper steel header beam and
king posts. Then you can take off the temporary and it looks like it
was built that way.

(You might have to dig and pour post footers at each end if there's
enough concentrated load there, especially if you have sandy or poorly
compacted or expansive soil under the building. You could make the
mod and a few months later the building starts falling apart... That's
one of the reasons why you really need an architect to at least look
it over.)

Or you can make the temporary support and oversized hole, then put
in a precast concrete header beam camouflaged with face brick, and
redo all the brickwork to add tied-in masonry kingposts on each side.
But now you're getting into 'gilding the lily' territory.

-- Bruce --

Even after I cut an 8 foot hole in the wall there will still be 5 foot
of wall over the top. Very little load on top, I can move the stuff
on the second floor out of the way. In the past I cut a hole and took
out bricks to form an arch over the hole, install door frame, fill
with concrete, then brick up the hole over the top. There is no
engineering in this building now. It's a 110 year old stable that was
part of a brewery. I think lots of beer was consumed in the
contruction. The mortar for the most part is lime and sand with
little to no portland. I'm told that was standard practice back then.
I do have 24" I-beams holding up the second floor though. Not
orginal, you can see differances in the motar, looks like they were
slid in through the wall at some point.

Picture of ceiling beams

www.enter.net/~rbraun/ceiling.jpg

I had to turn off the lights for the picture to get.



Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

I do have a place called the RE-PLACE, it's run by the Good Shepard
Rehabilitation Hospital, I'll have to look there. Thanks for the
reminder.






On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:27:21 GMT, "David Merrill"
wrote:

You don't, by chance, have a Habitat for Humanity surplus retail outlet or
some other architectural salvage store near you ? I often see oversize
doors, complete with really heavy-duty hardware, from remodeled medical and
commercial/industrial facilities at such places near me in western NC and
upstate SC.

David Merrill

"Randy" wrote in message
.. .
I'm still working on the neverending project of moving my stock rack
to the unheated warehouse side of my shop. I will have to cut a
doorway through the brick wall. I'm thinking at least a 36" single
door. Also considering a double wide door I could get the forklift
through. top of the roll cage is 7'3" (87") Since a std door is
only 6'8" I need extra tall. anyone have a door like this in their
shop or where you work? Are they available?

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On Jan 15, 8:38*am, Randy wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:07:06 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman

Even after I cut an 8 foot hole in the wall there will still be 5 foot
of wall over the top. *Very little load on top, I can move the stuff
on the second floor out of the way. *In the past I cut a hole and took
out bricks to form an arch over the hole, install door frame, fill
with concrete, then brick up the hole over the top. *There is no
engineering in this building now. *It's a 110 year old stable that was
part of a brewery. *I think lots of beer was consumed in the
contruction. *The mortar for the most part is lime and sand with
little to no portland. *I'm told that was standard practice back then.
I do have 24" I-beams holding up the second floor though. *Not
orginal, you can see differances in the motar, looks like they were
slid in through the wall at some point.

Perhaps you could extend the steel door frame sides upward to 8' with
channel iron, install the door normally, and make a horizontally
hinged wooden hatch that fills the top opening.

jw

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:38:37 -0500, Randy wrote:

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:07:06 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:04:53 -0500, Randy wrote:

I'm still working on the neverending project of moving my stock rack
to the unheated warehouse side of my shop. I will have to cut a
doorway through the brick wall. I'm thinking at least a 36" single
door. Also considering a double wide door I could get the forklift
through. top of the roll cage is 7'3" (87") Since a std door is
only 6'8" I need extra tall. anyone have a door like this in their
shop or where you work? Are they available?

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Vertical sectional garage door for a house - and they can easily add
an extra panel to make it taller, and supply a torsion spring and
snail drum that will handle the taller door. Available insulated and
weatherstripped, and/or with a window panel.

And you can use a box stock electric garage door opener on it, too -
just hit the button from the comfort of the forklift seat... But you
need to get one that has a longer screw or chain to handle the longer
travel. Most electric openers have extension kits available for a
nominal charge.

Don't forget to header off the wall before cutting the hole for the
door - and at a minimum it really should be professionally engineered
by an architect - you don't want anyone getting killed by pieces of
falling wall.

The ugly way is to build a permanent steel frame that is bolted to
the inside of the wall and then the doorway cut out. They do that all
the time on "tilt-up" concrete industrial buildings.

The slick way is to make the temporary frame to support the wall
while you work, cut an oversized hole, then build a permanent steel
frame inside the opening that has the proper steel header beam and
king posts. Then you can take off the temporary and it looks like it
was built that way.

(You might have to dig and pour post footers at each end if there's
enough concentrated load there, especially if you have sandy or poorly
compacted or expansive soil under the building. You could make the
mod and a few months later the building starts falling apart... That's
one of the reasons why you really need an architect to at least look
it over.)

Or you can make the temporary support and oversized hole, then put
in a precast concrete header beam camouflaged with face brick, and
redo all the brickwork to add tied-in masonry kingposts on each side.
But now you're getting into 'gilding the lily' territory.

-- Bruce --

Even after I cut an 8 foot hole in the wall there will still be 5 foot
of wall over the top. Very little load on top, I can move the stuff
on the second floor out of the way. In the past I cut a hole and took
out bricks to form an arch over the hole, install door frame, fill
with concrete, then brick up the hole over the top.

Are you putting this door through the rear wall in this photo, or
the side wall?

For the side wall you already have most of the structure you need
in place, you could just bridge between the 24" beams with a chunk of
C beam flat side to the wall, and then through-bolt the wall to it -
big squaire washers or a second chunk of beam on the outside as
clamping. Just moving the stuff isn't enough, you have to actively
hold up the building itself.

You need some sort of temporary support, so you can get the keystone
arch or other header in before the wall sags or collapses.

Concrete is strong when it's in compression, but very fragile when
it is in tension. You could cut out a square doorway hole in the wall
and then end up with a roughly triangular arch as the structure falls
into the gap. And if one of the main roof rafters is above that
instant hole, you could lose the whole place as the roof comes apart.

There is no
engineering in this building now. It's a 110 year old stable that was
part of a brewery. I think lots of beer was consumed in the
contruction. The mortar for the most part is lime and sand with
little to no portland. I'm told that was standard practice back then.
I do have 24" I-beams holding up the second floor though. Not
orginal, you can see differances in the motar, looks like they were
slid in through the wall at some point.

Picture of ceiling beams

www.enter.net/~rbraun/ceiling.jpg

I had to turn off the lights for the picture to get.

The building might well have been built in the 19th or early part
of the 20th Century, when "That's how we do it" was the rule of the
day.

But when you change things in the 21st Century you need to Cover
Your Ass and get engineering help, or the first time something goes
wrong said ass is going to be flapping in the breeze and potentially
painfully exposed.

An individual gets hurt or killed - and even if they have insurance
to pay for the hospitalization, said insurance company will soon be
coming after you to recover what they paid out.

-- Bruce --

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:59:38 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:


Are you putting this door through the rear wall in this photo, or
the side wall?

Bruce,
not that wall. this wall

www.enter.net/~rbraun/wall1.jpg
www.enter.net/~rbraun/wall2.jpg

compressor will move over to the right, center of door will be about
where the pipe comes down to the compressor now. At the top of the
wall are the joists for the second floor. Can't really see them with
the drywall and the plywood over the ends. Cabniet and tool box will
need to move on the other side.

After 15 years of climbing a ladder to the second floor I built these
stairs. should have done that sooner.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:30:07 -0500, Randy wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:59:38 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:


Are you putting this door through the rear wall in this photo, or
the side wall?

Bruce,
not that wall. this wall

www.enter.net/~rbraun/wall1.jpg
www.enter.net/~rbraun/wall2.jpg

That zig-zag crack over the old walled-off doorway is a bad sign -
they didn't suupport it right while building the header or shim under
the header when they were done. It has sagged a bit, and the mortar
is starting to come apart. The side with the compressor has a brick
veneer to hide, but the backside you can see the wood header beam.

And I simply /love/ the Flammable Storage locker right under the gas
radiant heater (spelled 'Ignition Source'), that's a nice touch. (Do
you use a match when reading the labels in there?)

Might want to move those two a *bit* farther away from each other...

compressor will move over to the right, center of door will be about
where the pipe comes down to the compressor now. At the top of the
wall are the joists for the second floor. Can't really see them with
the drywall and the plywood over the ends. Cabniet and tool box will
need to move on the other side.

After 15 years of climbing a ladder to the second floor I built these
stairs. should have done that sooner.

Looks to me like it would be a Whole Lot Easier to slide the
staircase over to one side and reposition the attic opening - plus you
don't want the header beams supporting the stairs dumping the 2nd
floor and stairway load over the doorway. You want as little load on
the header as possible.

IANA Architect, but I even know that much.

Then reopen the old doorway. It's already there, and you can see
that the header needs rework, so you don't need to make a new trouble
spot. It can easily get a bit taller or wider to fit whatever used or
inexpensive door you find.

-- Bruce --