http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_harvest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexploded_ordnance

http://www.flanders1917.info/26-Toda...vest_quot_.htm

http://unitedcats.wordpress.com/2007...est-continues/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...84369162_x.htm


http://www.amazon.com/Trench-Art-Mat...533768&sr=11-1




"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

A long time ago, near Moscow, I was working on a fall potato harvest
with my class, and one girl found an unexploded mortar shell from
WWII, I would say 3-4 lb weight.

I doubt the following statement from Wikipedia:

It has been estimated that, for every square metre of territory on the
front from the coast to the Swiss border, a tonne of explosives
fell. One shell in every four[2] (some sources say one in every
three[3]) did not detonate. The Canadian National Vimy Memorial Site
is notable for supposedly having one unexploded munition for every
square metre.

Sounds a little excessive.

i

On 2009-01-09, Gunner Asch wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_harvest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexploded_ordnance

http://www.flanders1917.info/26-Toda...vest_quot_.htm

http://unitedcats.wordpress.com/2007...est-continues/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...84369162_x.htm


http://www.amazon.com/Trench-Art-Mat...533768&sr=11-1




"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

"Ignoramus17663" wrote in message
...
A long time ago, near Moscow, I was working on a fall potato harvest
with my class, and one girl found an unexploded mortar shell from
WWII, I would say 3-4 lb weight.

I doubt the following statement from Wikipedia:

It has been estimated that, for every square metre of territory on the
front from the coast to the Swiss border, a tonne of explosives
fell. One shell in every four[2] (some sources say one in every
three[3]) did not detonate. The Canadian National Vimy Memorial Site
is notable for supposedly having one unexploded munition for every
square metre.

Sounds a little excessive.

I punched the numbers and, if Switzerland were included, it's 9 trillion
tons of explosives. I think somebody sneezed when they were placing the
decimal point. g

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 16:36:10 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Ignoramus17663" wrote in message
...
A long time ago, near Moscow, I was working on a fall potato harvest
with my class, and one girl found an unexploded mortar shell from
WWII, I would say 3-4 lb weight.

I doubt the following statement from Wikipedia:

It has been estimated that, for every square metre of territory on the
front from the coast to the Swiss border, a tonne of explosives
fell. One shell in every four[2] (some sources say one in every
three[3]) did not detonate. The Canadian National Vimy Memorial Site
is notable for supposedly having one unexploded munition for every
square metre.

Sounds a little excessive.

I punched the numbers and, if Switzerland were included, it's 9 trillion
tons of explosives. I think somebody sneezed when they were placing the
decimal point. g

Maybe they calculated 'the front' as being 100m wide or something like
that.

On 2009-01-09, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus17663" wrote in message
...
A long time ago, near Moscow, I was working on a fall potato harvest
with my class, and one girl found an unexploded mortar shell from
WWII, I would say 3-4 lb weight.

I doubt the following statement from Wikipedia:

It has been estimated that, for every square metre of territory on the
front from the coast to the Swiss border, a tonne of explosives
fell. One shell in every four[2] (some sources say one in every
three[3]) did not detonate. The Canadian National Vimy Memorial Site
is notable for supposedly having one unexploded munition for every
square metre.

Sounds a little excessive.

I punched the numbers and, if Switzerland were included, it's 9 trillion
tons of explosives. I think somebody sneezed when they were placing the
decimal point. g

I think that they wanted to say kilometre.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 16:36:10 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Ignoramus17663" wrote in message
...
A long time ago, near Moscow, I was working on a fall potato harvest
with my class, and one girl found an unexploded mortar shell from
WWII, I would say 3-4 lb weight.

I doubt the following statement from Wikipedia:

It has been estimated that, for every square metre of territory on the
front from the coast to the Swiss border, a tonne of explosives
fell. One shell in every four[2] (some sources say one in every
three[3]) did not detonate. The Canadian National Vimy Memorial Site
is notable for supposedly having one unexploded munition for every
square metre.

Sounds a little excessive.

I punched the numbers and, if Switzerland were included, it's 9 trillion
tons of explosives. I think somebody sneezed when they were placing the
decimal point. g

Maybe they calculated 'the front' as being 100m wide or something like
that.

Maybe. I wasn't sure how to interpret it. The 9 trillion tons counts all of
Europe, so it's probably inflated by more than half, because Switzerland and
some other countries don't count.

Or, maybe they're just counting the area swept by the Western Front. That's
a small fraction of the total geography of the war zones.

Still, that's a hell of a lot of bang-bang.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ignoramus17663" wrote in message
news
On 2009-01-09, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus17663" wrote in message
...
A long time ago, near Moscow, I was working on a fall potato harvest
with my class, and one girl found an unexploded mortar shell from
WWII, I would say 3-4 lb weight.

I doubt the following statement from Wikipedia:

It has been estimated that, for every square metre of territory on the
front from the coast to the Swiss border, a tonne of explosives
fell. One shell in every four[2] (some sources say one in every
three[3]) did not detonate. The Canadian National Vimy Memorial Site
is notable for supposedly having one unexploded munition for every
square metre.

Sounds a little excessive.

I punched the numbers and, if Switzerland were included, it's 9 trillion
tons of explosives. I think somebody sneezed when they were placing the
decimal point. g

I think that they wanted to say kilometre.

I think so, too. So, divide by 1 million.

--
Ed Huntress

Gunner Asch wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_harvest

When in Ypres in 2003, I heard that due to growing interest in WW1
history, some farmers were selling UXB's to tourists. Some were even
using angle grinders to remove detonators. Business must have been booming!

Jordan

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

I punched the numbers and, if Switzerland were included, it's 9 trillion
tons of explosives. I think somebody sneezed when they were placing the
decimal point. g

I thought Switzerland was neutral? Someone today was telling me 1/3 of the bombs we
dropped didn't detonate. I have to think we would have fixed that problem at some point
during the war.

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

I punched the numbers and, if Switzerland were included, it's 9 trillion
tons of explosives. I think somebody sneezed when they were placing the
decimal point. g

I thought Switzerland was neutral?

It was. I wasn't about to do that much arithmetic to check on a Wikipedia
listing. d8-)

Someone today was telling me 1/3 of the bombs we
dropped didn't detonate. I have to think we would have fixed that problem
at some point
during the war.

What problem? Drop more bombs, shoot more shells. Let the devil take the
hindmost, and stay the hell out of there after the war.

This may be why the Brits think that France is toxic.

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 18:32:49 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

I punched the numbers and, if Switzerland were included, it's 9 trillion
tons of explosives. I think somebody sneezed when they were placing the
decimal point. g

I thought Switzerland was neutral?

It was. I wasn't about to do that much arithmetic to check on a Wikipedia
listing. d8-)

Someone today was telling me 1/3 of the bombs we
dropped didn't detonate. I have to think we would have fixed that problem
at some point
during the war.

What problem? Drop more bombs, shoot more shells. Let the devil take the
hindmost, and stay the hell out of there after the war.

This may be why the Brits think that France is toxic.


Nah. France is toxic because it's full of frenchmen :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM

Europe isn't the only place
http://www.wesh.com/news/15907595/detail.html
gary


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_harvest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexploded_ordnance

http://www.flanders1917.info/26-Toda...vest_quot_.htm

http://unitedcats.wordpress.com/2007...est-continues/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...84369162_x.htm


http://www.amazon.com/Trench-Art-Mat...533768&sr=11-1




"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:12:38 -0600, Ignoramus17663
wrote:

A long time ago, near Moscow, I was working on a fall potato harvest
with my class, and one girl found an unexploded mortar shell from
WWII, I would say 3-4 lb weight.

I doubt the following statement from Wikipedia:

It has been estimated that, for every square metre of territory on the
front from the coast to the Swiss border, a tonne of explosives
fell. One shell in every four[2] (some sources say one in every
three[3]) did not detonate. The Canadian National Vimy Memorial Site
is notable for supposedly having one unexploded munition for every
square metre.

Sounds a little excessive.

i

see you havent studied WW1 much.

You think war today is hell?

WW1 was what Dante was thinking about when he talked about Hell.

900 TONS of munitons a year are harvested in Belgium alone each
year...and have been for many many many years....

Gunner


On 2009-01-09, Gunner Asch wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_harvest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexploded_ordnance

http://www.flanders1917.info/26-Toda...vest_quot_.htm

http://unitedcats.wordpress.com/2007...est-continues/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...84369162_x.htm


http://www.amazon.com/Trench-Art-Mat...533768&sr=11-1




"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

I grew up near Miramar Naval Air Station in San Diego. Uncounted Marines
trained there, and so did Patton, and our first Commando units , Carlson's
Marine Raiders.
We used to find all kinds of fun stuff. Dad like the case of rifle grease I
carried home, but mom called the cops and wouldn't let me keep a string of
machine gun ammo. Shells were out. A dumb kid or two would blow up every
few years, and they still annually sweep for more shells uncovered by
weather. Most of the ground is now permanently covered by houses. Don't dig
in the yard, kids. I can't imagine what it would have been like if mines
were present.

I have walked many of the WW1 battlefields. There are still some unplowed
areas around Verdun, etc, where the ground is very "hilly", filled with
small trees, and silent. As it should be.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

There was/is a bombing range inside a national forest near the Silver
Springs - Ocala area.

As far as actual battle and combat areas go, I doubt that much has changed
as far as cleanup operations, other than the percentage of duds has probably
become lower over time.

There aren't so many stories in the media anymore, but the last one I read
described trained experts(?) in battle areas of small countries still
low-crawling over every square foot of soil, poking with bayonets or other
tools to find as many mines as possible.

Many of the mines after the Korean era are mostly non-metallic, IIRC, and
aren't easily detectible by any other means.

So it's reasonable that there are many hundreds of square miles in numerous
places on this earth where "dumb kids" get blown up every so often.
Grandchildren and greatgrandchildren of previous generations dying or maimed
is a hideous reality in the aftermath of war or conflict.

During the first Gulf engagement the last great battleship (can't recall the
name) fired 18" shells left over from WWII. Target range about 22 miles.

No "use by" or "discard after" dates on munitions.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Gary Owens" wrote in message
ng.com...
Europe isn't the only place
http://www.wesh.com/news/15907595/detail.html
gary


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_harvest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexploded_ordnance

http://www.flanders1917.info/26-Toda...vest_quot_.htm

http://unitedcats.wordpress.com/2007...est-continues/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...84369162_x.htm


http://www.amazon.com/Trench-Art-Mat...533768&sr=11-1




"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Jan 9, 10:38*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:12:38 -0600, Ignoramus17663





wrote:
A long time ago, near Moscow, I was working on a fall potato harvest
with my class, and one girl found an unexploded mortar shell from
WWII, I would say 3-4 lb weight.

I doubt the following statement from Wikipedia:

It has been estimated that, for every square metre of territory on the
front from the coast to the Swiss border, a tonne of explosives
fell. One shell in every four[2] (some sources say one in every
three[3]) did not detonate. The Canadian National Vimy Memorial Site
is notable for supposedly having one unexploded munition for every
square metre.

Sounds a little excessive.

i

*see you havent studied WW1 much.

You think war today is hell? *

WW1 was what Dante was thinking about when he talked about Hell.

900 TONS of munitons a year are harvested in Belgium alone each
year...and *have been for many many many years....

Gunner







On 2009-01-09, Gunner Asch wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_harvest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexploded_ordnance

http://www.flanders1917.info/26-Toda..._Harvest_quot_....

http://unitedcats.wordpress.com/2007...my-new-header-....

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...84369162_x.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Trench-Art-Mat...-War/dp/185973....

"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." *Grey Ghost

"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." *Grey Ghost- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

War is always hell Gunner...people die.

If old men were to fight wars, there would be far fewer of them.

TMT

"Mark Rand" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 18:32:49 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

I punched the numbers and, if Switzerland were included, it's 9 trillion
tons of explosives. I think somebody sneezed when they were placing the
decimal point. g

I thought Switzerland was neutral?

It was. I wasn't about to do that much arithmetic to check on a Wikipedia
listing. d8-)

Someone today was telling me 1/3 of the bombs we
dropped didn't detonate. I have to think we would have fixed that
problem
at some point
during the war.

What problem? Drop more bombs, shoot more shells. Let the devil take the
hindmost, and stay the hell out of there after the war.

This may be why the Brits think that France is toxic.


Nah. France is toxic because it's full of frenchmen :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM

I saw an approximate Mark Twain quote that you'll appreciate, although the
coin it mentions is out of date, in which he refers to "that mixture in his
voice of awe and reverence and lust which burns in a Frenchman's eye when it
falls on another man's centime."

Ribbit. g

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:32:16 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:



War is always hell Gunner...people die.

If old men were to fight wars, there would be far fewer of them.

TMT


Which could be useful in this ageing society of ours. Less old age pensioners
using valuable resources, less youngsters getting killed etc. We'd need to
conscript the old ladies as well though, or there'd be too many of them left
over...

BEG


Mark Rand
RTFM

I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that Ignoramus17663
wrote on Fri, 09 Jan 2009
15:12:38 -0600 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
A long time ago, near Moscow, I was working on a fall potato harvest
with my class, and one girl found an unexploded mortar shell from
WWII, I would say 3-4 lb weight.

Not all that surprising. I recall reading of a Red Army unit on
maneuvers in the 1970s, and the grandmother was insisting to the
"young" officer that she had a bomb under her bed. He decided that he
would humor Grandmother, so he went to take a look. Yep, just as she
said, there was a hole in the floor, and a 100kg bomb, dropped during
the Great Patriotic War and still there. Live.
Russian Grandmothers: you can't scare them.

I doubt the following statement from Wikipedia:

It has been estimated that, for every square metre of territory on the
front from the coast to the Swiss border, a tonne of explosives
fell. One shell in every four[2] (some sources say one in every
three[3]) did not detonate. The Canadian National Vimy Memorial Site
is notable for supposedly having one unexploded munition for every
square metre.

Sounds a little excessive.

Sounds excessive, only if you don't know the scale of the
situation.

Some years ago, I helped edit a friends paper of the partition of
British India. She could not really grasp that half a million people
had been killed in the riots. Being from Alaska that was almost more
people than were in the entire state. But when I pointed out that at
the time, the India subcontinent has half a billion people on it, 0.1%
fatalities was "nothing".

Same with the Western Front of WWI. Artillery was fired for four
years over a very narrow area. Now, some places got more that others,
I have heard estimates that every square meter of the Verdun battle
field was hit, twice. 300 days on a ten kilometer front. They had
to resurvey the area after the war, the terrain had been that changed.

The French have an army unit with the task of cleaning up the
battle fields. Still. A lot of shells buried themselves without
exploding, and have been working themselves to the surface. Then
there are the occasional discoveries of "more recent" munitions -
those from WW2.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:32:16 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:



War is always hell Gunner...people die.

No ****? Not that you would know anything about war....

If old men were to fight wars, there would be far fewer of them.

TMT

So get off your lazy ass, grab your walker and head for Afghanistan





"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

Wild_Bill wrote:

There was/is a bombing range inside a national forest near the Silver
Springs - Ocala area.


Its still there, and still gets used. You can hear the explosions
over 10 miles away.


--
And another motherboard bites the dust!