Is Gunner going to have to give you another civics lesson, about how
Congress approves expenditures?


Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Here is an example of what the TRUE legacy of George Bush will
be...and you and your children and your grandchildren will be paying
for it.

And you might want to remember that George started with a Clinton
surplus in 2000.

This is what your vote for George Bush has cost you and yours.

this is what your vote for Pelosi and her spawn have given you.

Obama says expects deficit to approach $1 trillion
By Steve Holland Steve Holland 1 hr 20 mins ago

As dumb as you thing GWB is, I don't know how you think he'd be smart
enough to spend that much money all by himself.

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:39:41 -0600, RB
wrote:
snip
Is Gunner going to have to give you another civics lesson, about how
Congress approves expenditures?
snip
And herein lies the rub. Namely that increasing amounts of the
Federal budget are not discretionary, short of an Argentinean
style default, and/or triggering massive civil unrest.

The interest and principal *MUST* be paid on the Federal bonds
and other securities as due, and the entitlement programs such as
Social Security, Medicare, military retirement, etc. must be
funded. Indeed, it would appear that where there is significant
foreign or pension fund ownership of state and municipal debt
obligations, the Federal government may well be forced to
guarantee these also to prevent massive financial
dislocations/cascades in the event of defaults, e.g. California
state and municipalities.

Thus ever increasing amounts, now a sizable majority both in
absolute dollars and as percentages of the Federal budget, are
beyond Congressional control, and in many cases even
Congressional oversight, e.g. the refusal of the FRB to disclose
even the names of the firms and amounts received of the several
trillion dollars of taxpayer guaranteed funds that have
disbursed, let alone how these funds are being used, and the
conditions [if any] attached to these funds.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:39:41 -0600, RB
wrote:
snip
Is Gunner going to have to give you another civics lesson, about how
Congress approves expenditures?
snip
And herein lies the rub. Namely that increasing amounts of the
Federal budget are not discretionary, short of an Argentinean
style default, and/or triggering massive civil unrest.

The interest and principal *MUST* be paid on the Federal bonds
and other securities as due, and the entitlement programs such as
Social Security, Medicare, military retirement, etc. must be
funded. Indeed, it would appear that where there is significant
foreign or pension fund ownership of state and municipal debt
obligations, the Federal government may well be forced to
guarantee these also to prevent massive financial
dislocations/cascades in the event of defaults, e.g. California
state and municipalities.

Thus ever increasing amounts, now a sizable majority both in
absolute dollars and as percentages of the Federal budget, are
beyond Congressional control, and in many cases even
Congressional oversight, e.g. the refusal of the FRB to disclose
even the names of the firms and amounts received of the several
trillion dollars of taxpayer guaranteed funds that have
disbursed, let alone how these funds are being used, and the
conditions [if any] attached to these funds.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]

You may find in this interesting article ("The Unwisdom of Crowds") the
answer to why that is, George:

http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Pu...5/921taekw.asp

Picking up an idea from Bagehot, the author says that central banks and
national treasuries often must use "strategic ambiguity," and other
Machiavellian tricks:

"A final problem is that there are limits to how accountable a central bank
can be. Everyone is always hollering for clear rules and transparency. But a
dirty secret of regulation is that it frequently influences conduct most
effectively when it is capricious and opaque. Any regulatory system will
reveal its vulnerabilities over long use. If it addresses economic problems
in a predictable way, savvy investors will find a way to "game" that
predictability."

An intriguing idea. Anti-democratic, but intriguing.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:39:41 -0600, RB wrote:

Is Gunner going to have to give you another civics lesson, about how
Congress approves expenditures?


Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Here is an example of what the TRUE legacy of George Bush will
be...and you and your children and your grandchildren will be paying
for it.

And you might want to remember that George started with a Clinton
surplus in 2000.

This is what your vote for George Bush has cost you and yours.

this is what your vote for Pelosi and her spawn have given you.

Obama says expects deficit to approach $1 trillion
By Steve Holland Steve Holland 1 hr 20 mins ago

As dumb as you thing GWB is, I don't know how you think he'd be smart
enough to spend that much money all by himself.


You are talking to a mush filled skull, controlling a fat little body
just barely able to show up at a minimum wage job and ask ;would you
like fries with that", who, even worse..is in the terminal stages of
Bush Derangement Syndrome.

Dont bother him with facts, his mind, such as it is, is already made up

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Jan 6, 6:52*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:39:41 -0600, RB
wrote:
snipIs Gunner going to have to give you another civics lesson, about how
Congress approves expenditures?

snip
And herein lies the rub. *Namely that increasing amounts of the
Federal budget are not discretionary, short of an Argentinean
style default, and/or triggering massive civil unrest.

The interest and principal *MUST* be paid on the Federal bonds
and other securities as due, and the entitlement programs such as
Social Security, Medicare, military retirement, etc. must be
funded. *Indeed, it would appear that where there is significant
foreign or pension fund ownership of state and municipal debt
obligations, the Federal government may well be forced to
guarantee these also to prevent massive financial
dislocations/cascades in the event of defaults, e.g. California
state and municipalities.

Thus ever increasing amounts, now a sizable majority both in
absolute dollars and as percentages of the Federal budget, are
beyond Congressional control, and in many cases even
Congressional oversight, e.g. the refusal of the FRB to disclose
even the names of the firms and amounts received of the several
trillion dollars of taxpayer guaranteed funds that have
disbursed, let alone how these funds are being used, and the
conditions [if any] attached to these funds.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

George...you forgot to add that it is the American taxpayer (current
and future) who will have to pay these obligations...

....through increased taxes.

Now conservatives please tell me again how Bush and the Republican
Congress haven't raised your taxes through their irresponsible
actions.

TMT

On Jan 6, 8:43*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in messagenews:d6u7m4pigr28td896lrnj8hdh6r3bdgrrb@4ax .com...





On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:39:41 -0600, RB
wrote:
snip
Is Gunner going to have to give you another civics lesson, about how
Congress approves expenditures?
snip
And herein lies the rub. *Namely that increasing amounts of the
Federal budget are not discretionary, short of an Argentinean
style default, and/or triggering massive civil unrest.

The interest and principal *MUST* be paid on the Federal bonds
and other securities as due, and the entitlement programs such as
Social Security, Medicare, military retirement, etc. must be
funded. *Indeed, it would appear that where there is significant
foreign or pension fund ownership of state and municipal debt
obligations, the Federal government may well be forced to
guarantee these also to prevent massive financial
dislocations/cascades in the event of defaults, e.g. California
state and municipalities.

Thus ever increasing amounts, now a sizable majority both in
absolute dollars and as percentages of the Federal budget, are
beyond Congressional control, and in many cases even
Congressional oversight, e.g. the refusal of the FRB to disclose
even the names of the firms and amounts received of the several
trillion dollars of taxpayer guaranteed funds that have
disbursed, let alone how these funds are being used, and the
conditions [if any] attached to these funds.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

You may find in this interesting article ("The Unwisdom of Crowds") the
answer to why that is, George:

http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Pu...00/015/921taek...

Picking up an idea from Bagehot, the author says that central banks and
national treasuries often must use "strategic ambiguity," and other
Machiavellian tricks:

"A final problem is that there are limits to how accountable a central bank
can be. Everyone is always hollering for clear rules and transparency. But a
dirty secret of regulation is that it frequently influences conduct most
effectively when it is capricious and opaque. Any regulatory system will
reveal its vulnerabilities over long use. If it addresses economic problems
in a predictable way, savvy investors will find a way to "game" that
predictability."

An intriguing idea. Anti-democratic, but intriguing.

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And practiced everyday.

Greenspan took great pride in saying much about nothing.

TMT

On Jan 6, 5:39*pm, RB wrote:
Is Gunner going to have to give you another civics lesson, about how
Congress approves expenditures?

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Here is an example of what the TRUE legacy of George Bush will
be...and you and your children and your grandchildren will be paying
for it.

And you might want to remember that George started with a Clinton
surplus in 2000.

This is what your vote for George Bush has cost you and yours.

this is what your vote for Pelosi and her spawn have given you.

Obama says expects deficit to approach $1 trillion
By Steve Holland Steve Holland 1 hr 20 mins ago

As dumb as you thing GWB is, I don't know how you think he'd be smart
enough to spend that much money all by himself.

He had a lot of help from his friends...

TMT

On Jan 6, 8:49*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:39:41 -0600, RB wrote:
Is Gunner going to have to give you another civics lesson, about how
Congress approves expenditures?

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Here is an example of what the TRUE legacy of George Bush will
be...and you and your children and your grandchildren will be paying
for it.

And you might want to remember that George started with a Clinton
surplus in 2000.

This is what your vote for George Bush has cost you and yours.

this is what your vote for Pelosi and her spawn have given you.

Obama says expects deficit to approach $1 trillion
By Steve Holland Steve Holland 1 hr 20 mins ago

As dumb as you thing GWB is, I don't know how you think he'd be smart
enough to spend that much money all by himself.

You are talking to a mush filled skull, controlling a fat little body
just barely able to show up at a minimum wage job and ask ;would you
like fries with that", who, even worse..is in the terminal stages of
Bush Derangement Syndrome.

Dont bother him with facts, *his mind, such as it is, is already made up

Gunner

"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." *Grey Ghost- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

• "There's no doubt in my mind, not one doubt in my mind, that we
will
fail." — Oct. 4, 2001, in Washington. Bush was remarking on a back-
to-
work plan after the terrorist attacks.

Isn't that your hero Gunner?

TMT