More in the continuing saga of Gunner and 2 wheeled iron......

The 1974 Honda Xl 350 that Ive owned, but never started, and left to
languish in the weeds for 10 yrs, has been one of the 3 bikes Ive been
putting with. The Royal Enfield/Indian Chief I started several weeks
ago, after 37 yrs of ownership....chuckle.


I orignally found the wiring had been torn up badly, and the coil not
putting out a spark. I fixed the ignition wiring, and installed a used
6vt AC coil, and condenser from a pickup truck, along with a new plug
and cap (the old cap wouldnt conduct through it), I managed to get a
nice blue spark. But it wouldnt start consitantly or run for any period
of time.

Taking the carby apart, I found it missing a Slo Jet with some ****tards
impromtu jet stuffed into the hole. Tuesday, I found a used jet at a
motorcycle shop in Bakersfield and Wed I reassembed the carby, after
checking float height, replacing all the seals and o rings and so forth.

I installed the carby, put fresh gas in the tank, kicked it 3 times and
she started and sat there idling rather nicely. Gray smoke slowly
cleared out and became a bit of black smoke but it idled pretty fair.

Since the clutch appeared to be frozen, I put it in gear with the engine
off, and rocked it back and forth for a few minutes, checking for clutch
action and suddenly the clutch came free. I went into the house, dug
out a helmet, and puttered up and down the alley way for 15 minutes,
getting used to the bike, changing gears, seeing what it needed . A
quick punch of the rear break pedal did little, so adjusted that. A
quick grab of the front brake caused the front wheel to freeze, so
adjusted that. Sprayed the chain with Kroil, checked this and that.

It idles with black smoke, indicating a rich condition, and the air jet
really doesnt do much of anything when turned in or out. So evidently
there is an issue there. I didnt check the needle clip position, so that
will be done tommorow. There is a hose that comes out fo the carby and
goes back into the airbox (airbox not installed) and that opens and
closes a diaphram on the carby that makes the engine speed up or slow
down...no idea what it does. The Clymer that a neighbor gave me today
gives the carby much of a pass, no details to speak of, not even clip
position, the *******s!!

It leaks badly at the exhaust port, Im not sure if there is a gasket in
there, but it did quiet down after the engine got warm. Valves need to
be adjusted, oil changed, new points installed and so forth.

Anything over an idle, the engine bogs and sputters in a certain range,
then speeds up rapidly while riding when you crank on it. So there has
to be an air leak somewhere, and it pushes out black smoke at any speed
range. And the timing may not be advancing....sigh

But it runs, doesnt push out oil smoke and no Bad Noises come from the
engine... Now its just detail work. Getting the lights and other wiring
fixed up, Replacement or repair the seat etc etc

I didnt want to sink any money in it because I didnt know if the engine
was hosed or not. Now I can feel comfortable putting some time and
effort into it.

Many of the internal seals were flat black rubber disks, which I
replaced with O rings that I had on hand, not having the same rubber
disks or stock to make em from.

Anyone familar with the Keihen carby with the lever that lifts the
slide, rather than having the slide lifed directly by the throttle
cable? Anything I should check to see what the over rich condition is
caused by? Ill drop the needle valve a slot to the recommended one from
the www.oldrice.com website, but the air jet adjustment not doing much
of anything at idle, and the bogging, and sputtering when applying
throttle are the main issues.

After this is resolved, comes the BMW, which should either be the
easiest, or hardest to get running again...sigh

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

It idles with black smoke, indicating a rich condition, and the air
jet
really doesnt do much of anything when turned in or out. So evidently
there is an issue there. I didnt check the needle clip position, so
that
will be done tommorow. There is a hose that comes out fo the carby
and
goes back into the airbox (airbox not installed) and that opens and
closes a diaphram on the carby that makes the engine speed up or slow
down...no idea what it does. The Clymer that a neighbor gave me today
gives the carby much of a pass, no details to speak of, not even clip
position, the *******s!!



http://www.xlintperformance.com/airvalve.htm

Gunner Asch has brought this to us :
More in the continuing saga of Gunner and 2 wheeled iron......

The 1974 Honda Xl 350 that Ive owned, but never started, and left to
languish in the weeds for 10 yrs, has been one of the 3 bikes Ive been
putting with. The Royal Enfield/Indian Chief I started several weeks
ago, after 37 yrs of ownership....chuckle.


I orignally found the wiring had been torn up badly, and the coil not
putting out a spark. I fixed the ignition wiring, and installed a used
6vt AC coil, and condenser from a pickup truck, along with a new plug
and cap (the old cap wouldnt conduct through it), I managed to get a
nice blue spark. But it wouldnt start consitantly or run for any period
of time.

Taking the carby apart, I found it missing a Slo Jet with some ****tards
impromtu jet stuffed into the hole. Tuesday, I found a used jet at a
motorcycle shop in Bakersfield and Wed I reassembed the carby, after
checking float height, replacing all the seals and o rings and so forth.

I installed the carby, put fresh gas in the tank, kicked it 3 times and
she started and sat there idling rather nicely. Gray smoke slowly
cleared out and became a bit of black smoke but it idled pretty fair.

Since the clutch appeared to be frozen, I put it in gear with the engine
off, and rocked it back and forth for a few minutes, checking for clutch
action and suddenly the clutch came free. I went into the house, dug
out a helmet, and puttered up and down the alley way for 15 minutes,
getting used to the bike, changing gears, seeing what it needed . A
quick punch of the rear break pedal did little, so adjusted that. A
quick grab of the front brake caused the front wheel to freeze, so
adjusted that. Sprayed the chain with Kroil, checked this and that.

It idles with black smoke, indicating a rich condition, and the air jet
really doesnt do much of anything when turned in or out. So evidently
there is an issue there. I didnt check the needle clip position, so that
will be done tommorow. There is a hose that comes out fo the carby and
goes back into the airbox (airbox not installed) and that opens and
closes a diaphram on the carby that makes the engine speed up or slow
down...no idea what it does. The Clymer that a neighbor gave me today
gives the carby much of a pass, no details to speak of, not even clip
position, the *******s!!

It leaks badly at the exhaust port, Im not sure if there is a gasket in
there, but it did quiet down after the engine got warm. Valves need to
be adjusted, oil changed, new points installed and so forth.

Anything over an idle, the engine bogs and sputters in a certain range,
then speeds up rapidly while riding when you crank on it. So there has
to be an air leak somewhere, and it pushes out black smoke at any speed
range. And the timing may not be advancing....sigh

But it runs, doesnt push out oil smoke and no Bad Noises come from the
engine... Now its just detail work. Getting the lights and other wiring
fixed up, Replacement or repair the seat etc etc

I didnt want to sink any money in it because I didnt know if the engine
was hosed or not. Now I can feel comfortable putting some time and
effort into it.

Many of the internal seals were flat black rubber disks, which I
replaced with O rings that I had on hand, not having the same rubber
disks or stock to make em from.

Anyone familar with the Keihen carby with the lever that lifts the
slide, rather than having the slide lifed directly by the throttle
cable? Anything I should check to see what the over rich condition is
caused by? Ill drop the needle valve a slot to the recommended one from
the www.oldrice.com website, but the air jet adjustment not doing much
of anything at idle, and the bogging, and sputtering when applying
throttle are the main issues.

After this is resolved, comes the BMW, which should either be the
easiest, or hardest to get running again...sigh

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

The bogging you experience could also be a fuel delivery problem.
Make sure the tank is clean, not full of rust floating around.
Add an inline fuel filter (or replace it) if you haven't already.
One of the passages in the carb my still be partially plugged.

When you say bog, does it sound like the engine cutting out
or does it make a burbling type noise. The former is lean, the
latter rich.

As far as jetting goes the pilot jet affects idle & just off idle.
The air screw also, but it is only good for about a half turn either
direction from where the manual says it should be set.
The cutaway on the slide affects off idle. Then the needle and the
needle jet take over. Finally the main jet takes control.

If you see black smoke and hear burbling on all throttle settings,
the maybe there is some other issue. I wouldn't think that all the
jetting circuits would all be wrong.

I had a '78 XL350, 1st dirt bike, which gave off black smoke. I didn't
know nothing about bikes then, and got the dealer to fix it. They
wanted to do a tune-up, standard reply. I told them no, just fix the
problem. They did and it wasn't too expensive. Unfortunately I don't
know what they did to solve the issue.

Wayne D.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message news

I installed the carby, put fresh gas in the tank, kicked it 3 times and
she started and sat there idling rather nicely. Gray smoke slowly
cleared out and became a bit of black smoke but it idled pretty fair.

Sounds like you got it running awfully rich. Too rich and it will run
cooler, but the extra fuel will wash down the oil on the cylinder walls too
much.


Since the clutch appeared to be frozen, I put it in gear with the engine
off, and rocked it back and forth for a few minutes, checking for clutch
action and suddenly the clutch came free. I went into the house, dug
out a helmet, and puttered up and down the alley way for 15 minutes,
getting used to the bike, changing gears, seeing what it needed . A
quick punch of the rear break pedal did little, so adjusted that. A
quick grab of the front brake caused the front wheel to freeze, so
adjusted that. Sprayed the chain with Kroil, checked this and that.

Back then a lot of folks use a regular automotive motor oil not knowing that
they could either cause clutches to stick or worse some with certain types
of friction modifiers could cause them to slip. Draining it and refilling
with motorcycle engine oil might help, but the odds are the clutch discs
will always be a little sticky at first start up now.


It idles with black smoke, indicating a rich condition, and the air jet
really doesnt do much of anything when turned in or out. So evidently
there is an issue there. I didnt check the needle clip position, so that
will be done tommorow. There is a hose that comes out fo the carby and
goes back into the airbox (airbox not installed) and that opens and
closes a diaphram on the carby that makes the engine speed up or slow
down...no idea what it does. The Clymer that a neighbor gave me today
gives the carby much of a pass, no details to speak of, not even clip
position, the *******s!!

It leaks badly at the exhaust port, Im not sure if there is a gasket in
there, but it did quiet down after the engine got warm. Valves need to
be adjusted, oil changed, new points installed and so forth.

Usually a crush gasket. A temporary trick we used to use was rolling steel
wool up in a strip and wrapping it around the endand putting it in place
just like a crush gasket. It will last for a week or two of regular riding,
but you really should replace the exhaust gaskets.

Anything over an idle, the engine bogs and sputters in a certain range,
then speeds up rapidly while riding when you crank on it.

That sounds like a lean condition. LOL. Interesting.

Maybe to much idle mix, and a still partially plugged main jet?

So there has
to be an air leak somewhere, and it pushes out black smoke at any speed
range. And the timing may not be advancing....sigh

Could be. Its always a good idea to replace ALL rubber lines on an old
fixer upper like that. Also might pay to pull the fuel tank petcock valve
and assembly and give her a once over. I recently fixed all my run problems
with a Honda Shadow because the filter screen inside the tank was plugged
solid. Also, I think those have a filter screen in the bottom of the
petcock itself. You could be running rich at idle and not getting enough
fuel due to restrictions when you close the throttle. Does it have a rubber
mounting flange for the carb or its it hard mounted? Also those little
Hondas are pretty sensitive to the airbox condition. I have a little 400
twin out in the shop that really likes a nice tight airbox, with a good
clean filter. If its open it doesn't run right and, if the filter is dirty
it doesn't run right.

Good luck.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message news

I installed the carby, put fresh gas in the tank, kicked it 3 times and
she started and sat there idling rather nicely. Gray smoke slowly
cleared out and became a bit of black smoke but it idled pretty fair.

Sounds like you got it running awfully rich. Too rich and it will run
cooler, but the extra fuel will wash down the oil on the cylinder walls too
much.


Since the clutch appeared to be frozen, I put it in gear with the engine
off, and rocked it back and forth for a few minutes, checking for clutch
action and suddenly the clutch came free. I went into the house, dug
out a helmet, and puttered up and down the alley way for 15 minutes,
getting used to the bike, changing gears, seeing what it needed . A
quick punch of the rear break pedal did little, so adjusted that. A
quick grab of the front brake caused the front wheel to freeze, so
adjusted that. Sprayed the chain with Kroil, checked this and that.

Back then a lot of folks use a regular automotive motor oil not knowing that
they could either cause clutches to stick or worse some with certain types
of friction modifiers could cause them to slip. Draining it and refilling
with motorcycle engine oil might help, but the odds are the clutch discs
will always be a little sticky at first start up now.


It idles with black smoke, indicating a rich condition, and the air jet
really doesnt do much of anything when turned in or out. So evidently
there is an issue there. I didnt check the needle clip position, so that
will be done tommorow. There is a hose that comes out fo the carby and
goes back into the airbox (airbox not installed) and that opens and
closes a diaphram on the carby that makes the engine speed up or slow
down...no idea what it does. The Clymer that a neighbor gave me today
gives the carby much of a pass, no details to speak of, not even clip
position, the *******s!!

It leaks badly at the exhaust port, Im not sure if there is a gasket in
there, but it did quiet down after the engine got warm. Valves need to
be adjusted, oil changed, new points installed and so forth.

Usually a crush gasket. A temporary trick we used to use was rolling steel
wool up in a strip and wrapping it around the endand putting it in place
just like a crush gasket. It will last for a week or two of regular riding,
but you really should replace the exhaust gaskets.

Anything over an idle, the engine bogs and sputters in a certain range,
then speeds up rapidly while riding when you crank on it.

That sounds like a lean condition. LOL. Interesting.

Maybe to much idle mix, and a still partially plugged main jet?

So there has
to be an air leak somewhere, and it pushes out black smoke at any speed
range. And the timing may not be advancing....sigh

Could be. Its always a good idea to replace ALL rubber lines on an old
fixer upper like that. Also might pay to pull the fuel tank petcock valve
and assembly and give her a once over. I recently fixed all my run problems
with a Honda Shadow because the filter screen inside the tank was plugged
solid. Also, I think those have a filter screen in the bottom of the
petcock itself. You could be running rich at idle and not getting enough
fuel due to restrictions when you close the throttle. Does it have a rubber
mounting flange for the carb or its it hard mounted? Also those little
Hondas are pretty sensitive to the airbox condition. I have a little 400
twin out in the shop that really likes a nice tight airbox, with a good
clean filter. If its open it doesn't run right and, if the filter is dirty
it doesn't run right.

Good luck.

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 03:53:51 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

More in the continuing saga of Gunner and 2 wheeled iron......

The 1974 Honda Xl 350 that Ive owned, but never started, and left to
languish in the weeds for 10 yrs, has been one of the 3 bikes Ive been
putting with. The Royal Enfield/Indian Chief I started several weeks
ago, after 37 yrs of ownership....chuckle.


I orignally found the wiring had been torn up badly, and the coil not
putting out a spark. I fixed the ignition wiring, and installed a used
6vt AC coil, and condenser from a pickup truck, along with a new plug
and cap (the old cap wouldnt conduct through it), I managed to get a
nice blue spark. But it wouldnt start consitantly or run for any period
of time.

Taking the carby apart, I found it missing a Slo Jet with some ****tards
impromtu jet stuffed into the hole. Tuesday, I found a used jet at a
motorcycle shop in Bakersfield and Wed I reassembed the carby, after
checking float height, replacing all the seals and o rings and so forth.

I installed the carby, put fresh gas in the tank, kicked it 3 times and
she started and sat there idling rather nicely. Gray smoke slowly
cleared out and became a bit of black smoke but it idled pretty fair.

Since the clutch appeared to be frozen, I put it in gear with the engine
off, and rocked it back and forth for a few minutes, checking for clutch
action and suddenly the clutch came free. I went into the house, dug
out a helmet, and puttered up and down the alley way for 15 minutes,
getting used to the bike, changing gears, seeing what it needed . A
quick punch of the rear break pedal did little, so adjusted that. A
quick grab of the front brake caused the front wheel to freeze, so
adjusted that. Sprayed the chain with Kroil, checked this and that.

It idles with black smoke, indicating a rich condition, and the air jet
really doesnt do much of anything when turned in or out. So evidently
there is an issue there. I didnt check the needle clip position, so that
will be done tommorow. There is a hose that comes out fo the carby and
goes back into the airbox (airbox not installed) and that opens and
closes a diaphram on the carby that makes the engine speed up or slow
down...no idea what it does. The Clymer that a neighbor gave me today
gives the carby much of a pass, no details to speak of, not even clip
position, the *******s!!

It leaks badly at the exhaust port, Im not sure if there is a gasket in
there, but it did quiet down after the engine got warm. Valves need to
be adjusted, oil changed, new points installed and so forth.

Anything over an idle, the engine bogs and sputters in a certain range,
then speeds up rapidly while riding when you crank on it. So there has
to be an air leak somewhere, and it pushes out black smoke at any speed
range. And the timing may not be advancing....sigh

But it runs, doesnt push out oil smoke and no Bad Noises come from the
engine... Now its just detail work. Getting the lights and other wiring
fixed up, Replacement or repair the seat etc etc

I didnt want to sink any money in it because I didnt know if the engine
was hosed or not. Now I can feel comfortable putting some time and
effort into it.

Many of the internal seals were flat black rubber disks, which I
replaced with O rings that I had on hand, not having the same rubber
disks or stock to make em from.

Anyone familar with the Keihen carby with the lever that lifts the
slide, rather than having the slide lifed directly by the throttle
cable? Anything I should check to see what the over rich condition is
caused by? Ill drop the needle valve a slot to the recommended one from
the www.oldrice.com website, but the air jet adjustment not doing much
of anything at idle, and the bogging, and sputtering when applying
throttle are the main issues.

After this is resolved, comes the BMW, which should either be the
easiest, or hardest to get running again...sigh

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Well, congratulations!

It sure sounds like you still need to work on the carb -- the techie part
of me wants to ask if there's a bolt-on electronic fuel injection for
small motors, the rest of me knows that's absurd...

You've verified compression &c, to make sure that you don't have a valve
or ring seal problem masquerading as a carb problem? Reading all the
other responses it sure sounds sensible to clean or replace _anything_
that touches the fuel or air going into the carburetor.

(I have to admit, that given a choice I think you should work on the
Enfield. That's _my_ choice of what _you_ should work on, of course, so
take it for the BS that it is.)

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Tim Wescott wrote:
It sure sounds like you still need to work on the carb -- the techie part
of me wants to ask if there's a bolt-on electronic fuel injection for
small motors, the rest of me knows that's absurd...

Actually not.... I did a bit of looking into this, and there is a hobby
level control kit for fuel injection. I have a back burner project to
recreate a bike I built in the mid 70's, a 350 Ducati engine in a Maico
chassis. Mikuni was the carb of choice back then, but just out of
curiosity I thought I'd look into FI. Thought maybe I could drive a
small pump off the right end of the cam with a setup similar to the tach
drive used on some of the road bikes. Anyway, it's out there and doable.

For Gunner's 350, personally I'd look for a Mikuni off a 4 stroke. A 2
stroke carb will be way too rich and may require replacing enough parts
to render conversion too costly.
Used of course, new Mikunis are not cheap. or, find a motorcycle bone
yard and try to find a better condition OEM carb.

I do have a brand new 26mm POSA carb I'd sell for 1974 retail sale price
($39.95). It's nearly infinitely adjustable for jetting but has no
float. Turn on the gas tap, and you'd better have the sucker running
real fast or it'll flood. 26mm would hurt top end but give great low end
response. Just for kicks, I once fitted a Tillotson forklift carb to my
350. Don't know the bore size, but it was real small. Engine predictably
had no top end, but low end was almost like an electric motor. And even
hot, it would fire first kick, hands off the throttle, and idle so slow
you could hear each slurp of air on the intake stroke!


Jon

On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 06:12:05 -0800, "ff" wrote:

It idles with black smoke, indicating a rich condition, and the air
jet
really doesnt do much of anything when turned in or out. So evidently
there is an issue there. I didnt check the needle clip position, so
that
will be done tommorow. There is a hose that comes out fo the carby
and
goes back into the airbox (airbox not installed) and that opens and
closes a diaphram on the carby that makes the engine speed up or slow
down...no idea what it does. The Clymer that a neighbor gave me today
gives the carby much of a pass, no details to speak of, not even clip
position, the *******s!!



http://www.xlintperformance.com/airvalve.htm

Ah HA!

Most interesting!

Ive got to ponder on this a bit......

Thanks!

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 09:14:22 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message news

I installed the carby, put fresh gas in the tank, kicked it 3 times and
she started and sat there idling rather nicely. Gray smoke slowly
cleared out and became a bit of black smoke but it idled pretty fair.

Sounds like you got it running awfully rich. Too rich and it will run
cooler, but the extra fuel will wash down the oil on the cylinder walls too
much.


Since the clutch appeared to be frozen, I put it in gear with the engine
off, and rocked it back and forth for a few minutes, checking for clutch
action and suddenly the clutch came free. I went into the house, dug
out a helmet, and puttered up and down the alley way for 15 minutes,
getting used to the bike, changing gears, seeing what it needed . A
quick punch of the rear break pedal did little, so adjusted that. A
quick grab of the front brake caused the front wheel to freeze, so
adjusted that. Sprayed the chain with Kroil, checked this and that.

Back then a lot of folks use a regular automotive motor oil not knowing that
they could either cause clutches to stick or worse some with certain types
of friction modifiers could cause them to slip. Draining it and refilling
with motorcycle engine oil might help, but the odds are the clutch discs
will always be a little sticky at first start up now.


It idles with black smoke, indicating a rich condition, and the air jet
really doesnt do much of anything when turned in or out. So evidently
there is an issue there. I didnt check the needle clip position, so that
will be done tommorow. There is a hose that comes out fo the carby and
goes back into the airbox (airbox not installed) and that opens and
closes a diaphram on the carby that makes the engine speed up or slow
down...no idea what it does. The Clymer that a neighbor gave me today
gives the carby much of a pass, no details to speak of, not even clip
position, the *******s!!

It leaks badly at the exhaust port, Im not sure if there is a gasket in
there, but it did quiet down after the engine got warm. Valves need to
be adjusted, oil changed, new points installed and so forth.

Usually a crush gasket. A temporary trick we used to use was rolling steel
wool up in a strip and wrapping it around the endand putting it in place
just like a crush gasket. It will last for a week or two of regular riding,
but you really should replace the exhaust gaskets.

Anything over an idle, the engine bogs and sputters in a certain range,
then speeds up rapidly while riding when you crank on it.

That sounds like a lean condition. LOL. Interesting.

Maybe to much idle mix, and a still partially plugged main jet?

So there has
to be an air leak somewhere, and it pushes out black smoke at any speed
range. And the timing may not be advancing....sigh

Could be. Its always a good idea to replace ALL rubber lines on an old
fixer upper like that. Also might pay to pull the fuel tank petcock valve
and assembly and give her a once over. I recently fixed all my run problems
with a Honda Shadow because the filter screen inside the tank was plugged
solid. Also, I think those have a filter screen in the bottom of the
petcock itself. You could be running rich at idle and not getting enough
fuel due to restrictions when you close the throttle. Does it have a rubber
mounting flange for the carb or its it hard mounted? Also those little
Hondas are pretty sensitive to the airbox condition. I have a little 400
twin out in the shop that really likes a nice tight airbox, with a good
clean filter. If its open it doesn't run right and, if the filter is dirty
it doesn't run right.

Good luck.


The airbox is not mounted on the bike. Im working on it with a simple
sock filter on the intake.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 12:31:42 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 03:53:51 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

More in the continuing saga of Gunner and 2 wheeled iron......

The 1974 Honda Xl 350 that Ive owned, but never started, and left to
languish in the weeds for 10 yrs, has been one of the 3 bikes Ive been
putting with. The Royal Enfield/Indian Chief I started several weeks
ago, after 37 yrs of ownership....chuckle.


I orignally found the wiring had been torn up badly, and the coil not
putting out a spark. I fixed the ignition wiring, and installed a used
6vt AC coil, and condenser from a pickup truck, along with a new plug
and cap (the old cap wouldnt conduct through it), I managed to get a
nice blue spark. But it wouldnt start consitantly or run for any period
of time.

Taking the carby apart, I found it missing a Slo Jet with some ****tards
impromtu jet stuffed into the hole. Tuesday, I found a used jet at a
motorcycle shop in Bakersfield and Wed I reassembed the carby, after
checking float height, replacing all the seals and o rings and so forth.

I installed the carby, put fresh gas in the tank, kicked it 3 times and
she started and sat there idling rather nicely. Gray smoke slowly
cleared out and became a bit of black smoke but it idled pretty fair.

Since the clutch appeared to be frozen, I put it in gear with the engine
off, and rocked it back and forth for a few minutes, checking for clutch
action and suddenly the clutch came free. I went into the house, dug
out a helmet, and puttered up and down the alley way for 15 minutes,
getting used to the bike, changing gears, seeing what it needed . A
quick punch of the rear break pedal did little, so adjusted that. A
quick grab of the front brake caused the front wheel to freeze, so
adjusted that. Sprayed the chain with Kroil, checked this and that.

It idles with black smoke, indicating a rich condition, and the air jet
really doesnt do much of anything when turned in or out. So evidently
there is an issue there. I didnt check the needle clip position, so that
will be done tommorow. There is a hose that comes out fo the carby and
goes back into the airbox (airbox not installed) and that opens and
closes a diaphram on the carby that makes the engine speed up or slow
down...no idea what it does. The Clymer that a neighbor gave me today
gives the carby much of a pass, no details to speak of, not even clip
position, the *******s!!

It leaks badly at the exhaust port, Im not sure if there is a gasket in
there, but it did quiet down after the engine got warm. Valves need to
be adjusted, oil changed, new points installed and so forth.

Anything over an idle, the engine bogs and sputters in a certain range,
then speeds up rapidly while riding when you crank on it. So there has
to be an air leak somewhere, and it pushes out black smoke at any speed
range. And the timing may not be advancing....sigh

But it runs, doesnt push out oil smoke and no Bad Noises come from the
engine... Now its just detail work. Getting the lights and other wiring
fixed up, Replacement or repair the seat etc etc

I didnt want to sink any money in it because I didnt know if the engine
was hosed or not. Now I can feel comfortable putting some time and
effort into it.

Many of the internal seals were flat black rubber disks, which I
replaced with O rings that I had on hand, not having the same rubber
disks or stock to make em from.

Anyone familar with the Keihen carby with the lever that lifts the
slide, rather than having the slide lifed directly by the throttle
cable? Anything I should check to see what the over rich condition is
caused by? Ill drop the needle valve a slot to the recommended one from
the www.oldrice.com website, but the air jet adjustment not doing much
of anything at idle, and the bogging, and sputtering when applying
throttle are the main issues.

After this is resolved, comes the BMW, which should either be the
easiest, or hardest to get running again...sigh

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Well, congratulations!

It sure sounds like you still need to work on the carb -- the techie part
of me wants to ask if there's a bolt-on electronic fuel injection for
small motors, the rest of me knows that's absurd...

You've verified compression &c, to make sure that you don't have a valve
or ring seal problem masquerading as a carb problem? Reading all the
other responses it sure sounds sensible to clean or replace _anything_
that touches the fuel or air going into the carburetor.

(I have to admit, that given a choice I think you should work on the
Enfield. That's _my_ choice of what _you_ should work on, of course, so
take it for the BS that it is.)


That was my first choice, but turning it into a bike thats street legal
is going to cost some money, lighting, speedo etc etc, so once I got it
actually running, I mothballed it until I can afford to actually proceed
with the project to completion.

Ill probably use the Enflield Bullet (India) running gear..speedo, amps,
headlamp etc that are available on Ebay. Much of it is the same stuff as
the original, but its still gonna be several hundred bucks and a bunch
of mount fabrication and so forth. While the basic bike is there, all
the street important bits and pieces are gone, or are in poor shape for
actually riding on the street without refurbishment of them. The tires
are 45 yrs old, and thats close to a couple hundred bucks to replace em
unless I use Yen Chengs and then its still a $100.

Shrug.
Ive not had a service call for nearly two weeks, most of my big money
shops have shut down for the holidays and Christmas expenses were ,
while not high, expenses.

The BMW is the most practical street bike, and I rode it for many years
to work, 42 miles each way, until I took the machine tool service tech
job and found I had absolutely no time to ride anymore.

The asshole roommate didnt do it any favors, trying to play mix and
match with the parts. Reinstalling the ignition switch alone took me
most of a day, trying to puzzle out the wiring diagrams.

Ive been saving it for last, as I wasnt sure the other two were worth
doing anything at all to them. I needed to get them running to determine
if they were hosed, or easily (read cheap) repaired/setup.

It appears that they are, so now I can get them up. The Honda makes a
lot of sense, because I live in the middle of the desert, and having a
place to ride means about 2500 square miles surrounding me. I plan on
putting on a luggage rack of some sort, and a bolt on side mounted rifle
scabbard so I can go fool around in the hills.

Ill probably be back down south after Monday, and swamped with work for
a week or two, after they try to start up those machines that have been
sitting idle and turned off for the past two weeks.

Ive used this "vacation" to do a lot of work on the property, tossing
tons of crap, emptying boxes of Stuff, building storage etc etc. When
you are only home a couple days a week, Honey Do's pile up. The ex is
physically unable to do much, and she refuses to do anything outside of
the home. So its left up to me. The bikes are being tinkered with
between other more important chores. Kinda a reward for doing the other
needed stuff.

Hell, if I retired today, it would be two years just to finish the stuff
Im already behind on....sigh

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Gunner Asch wrote:
More in the continuing saga of Gunner and 2 wheeled iron......

The 1974 Honda Xl 350 that Ive owned, but never started, and left to
I might know a little bit about this carb, as I
have a Kei Shin carb from a similar 350 on my lawn
tractor, and it works pretty well, far better than
the ghastly updraft toy that it was originally
fitted with.

Jon

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
More in the continuing saga of Gunner and 2 wheeled iron......

After this is resolved, comes the BMW, which should either be the
easiest, or hardest to get running again...sigh

Gunner

Hi Gunner,
Tell me more about the BMW. I am restortin my 1964 R69S which I have owned
since new. Had the frame powder coated, and the next step is to disassemble
the engine so I can get to the oi slinger. Only 27k miles on the bike.

Ivan Vegvary

On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 06:15:27 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
More in the continuing saga of Gunner and 2 wheeled iron......

After this is resolved, comes the BMW, which should either be the
easiest, or hardest to get running again...sigh

Gunner

Hi Gunner,
Tell me more about the BMW. I am restortin my 1964 R69S which I have owned
since new. Had the frame powder coated, and the next step is to disassemble
the engine so I can get to the oi slinger. Only 27k miles on the bike.

Ivan Vegvary


http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/BMW

1973 R90/6, with about 87,000 on the engine. Ive put at least 50,000 of
those miles on it just commuting. For many many years I wanted a BMW,
having owned Harleys, Nortons etc etc etc..and found this one. It had
been disassembled for painting..and left in several large cardboard
boxes and the previous owner lost his Round Tuit. I got it for $600,
about 1993 or so on a Wed evening. Saturday afternoon I rode it around
town. One of the easiest bikes Ive ever found to ride and easy to work
on. They do have some kinks...shrug..but. Plus the riding posture was
such that I, who had given up bike riding after 2 back surgeries could
actually ride it distances without being racked with pain when I got
off. I called it Trudy the Traction Machine. My back felt better
after riding it. Other bikes, Id get off and crawl into the house.

When I got the machine tool service job and starting being on the road
5-15 days at a time, sometimes only with 1 or 2 days off ..honey does
when I was home precluded riding it much. So I parked it, fired it up
every couple months, which got farther and farther apart...and
ultimately Trudy sat in the sun for about 6 yrs. The custom seat is
starting to come apart at the seams. Im gonna need to find someone who
can take the old one apart, use the existing seat fabric as patterns,
and sew a new copy. The seams are ok, the fabric is starting to go
south. Id put tarps on it, but the desert sun is murderous on tarps and
motorcycle seats.

Rear tire wont hold air, so I bought a tube just to keep it inflated,
still havent installed it yet. Recommended tires are Metzlers, but I
had really good luck with Yen Chengs over the years. Boxers tend to be
hard on the rear tires. Its claimed its because of the side to side
vibration of the engine. Shrug. They do tend to eat clutch cables as
well, as a quirk of the design, if you dont stay on top of them.

Left muffler is rotting out, used muff bandage for years, this time Im
going to have a stainless steel sleeve rolled, and then I can tig weld
it on. Owner of a fab shop owes me some favors..shrug.

Battery is hosed of course. BMW wants $250 for a replacement, Autozone
gets $35 for a lawn tractor battery with the same dimensions and CCA.
Had a roommate some years ago, who decided to start pulling parts off it
to make the Honda run. Ive got all the parts back, but the kickstand is
missing, the centerstand is missing all the bolts and springs, the
headlight bucket is missing hardware. All the external switches are
rusty/crusty, with light surface rust on parts of the frame and exhaust
system.

The Luftmeister fairing had part of the windsheild broken when the
asshole took it off, and both Luftmeister saddle bags are cracked from
when he laid the bike on its side to "work on it" Nothing I cant
easily repair with a bit of fiberglass which I have from my boat repair
days, and a coat of paint. Ill probably simply mask of fhe important
bits and rattle can the frame with Rustoleum black. The windshield,
probably replace it with Lexan. Easier to cut to shape and curve.
Though how it will hold up to desert dust at cruising speed...shrug.

Of course all the rubber gas lines are toast, the front master cylinder
had leaked out the fluid, refilled it, it leaked for a couple days,not
it seems to have stopped. When I get to it working on her, Ill use a .45
caliber Stainless steel brush on the bore of the cylinder (front disk)
and clean it out a bit. No kits available, but from varioius bits on the
internet, seals are available from other sources for other applications
that will work.

http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/partsubs.shtml

A number of parts can be straight substituted for the Pri$y BMW Part$

Relays, etc etc etc

Ill probably put in one of the electronic regulators, its claimed they
charge at lower rpms..and the boxers need every bit of help they can get
when charging.
Ill try to locate the Stromberg diaphrams as well if needed..
The bike still has the points ignition, someday Ill put in a CDI unit,
but they are a bit pricey, or used to be.

Id like to have a spare diode board as well. Mine was
working,..shrug..wont tell until I fire it up again.

First thing I need to do is change out the fuel lines, change the oil
and filters and see if I can run it off a car battery and jumper cables
on the work stand. See what it needs.
Id like to install a small oil pressure gauge as well. I had one on it
for years, but it blew out and I stuck in a plug. They have a warning
light for oil pressure, but..I like to see whats going on in the lube
system. Gonna do the same with the Royal Enfield as well when its time.

There used to be an "outlaw" BMW shop in Bakersfield. Johnny's BMW.
He had stocks of used parts, sold the new ones cheaper than any other
BMW shop. Folks would travel to him from all over the state, Lots of
bikes being worked on by their owners in the parking lot, BBQ going on
Saturdays etc.

He wound up ****ing of BMW because of his discounting and lack of German
"correctness" and they pulled his franchise. He had been around for
years, building racers etc.

He had been a paratrooper at Normandy. Claimed to have shot a bunch of
Germans with his Tommy gun, and always figured they would get even
sooner or later...chuckle.

I went by where the shop had been, and its now a granite counter top
place....sigh.

Most of the BMW shops Ive been in recently have been staffed by assholes
trying to peddle 400% overpriced ****.

$485 for ONE muffler? Come on...geeezus JC Witney and other places
sell direct replacements for $90 each.

I bought one of those pressure type cable lubers for spritzing lube in
the control cables of bikes. Still havent used it yet, but will as the
work progresses on all the bikes.


Fired the Honda up again today. Idles just hunky dory, but when I crank
on the throttle, it runs really ragged and wont even out. It has more
compression today. Seems that the rings are starting to free up and it
smokes a bit less, but is still coughing out black smoke on anything
over an idle. When I pulled the plug, it was really black and sooty.
Not oil fouled.

Today I did a bunch of shop clean up, working my way to the
back...chuckle..so didnt get much time to work on the scoots. Tossed
about 500lbs of scrap metal, misc crap Im never ever gonna use. Buddy
came by, wanted to make some speaker cover blanks for his Mustang nitro
car, so dug out some alum diamond plate, used the old grills for
templates, cut em out on the Walker Turner bandsaw, clamped em together
and finished the edges on the belt sanders. Used a microstop and
drilled/champhered mounting holes for 10-32 flat head cap screws,
Stainless steel. I gave him some new tinnerman clips to go with it.
Looks pretty cool actually after installation. I offered to have them
anodized...colbalt blue diamond plate to match his nitrious
tank...chuckle..but he said it looked fine as is.


"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Gunner, thanks for the detailed update on your Beemer.

Hope to get started on mine within a few weeks.
Parked it outside in 1980 (San Francisco East Bay). Climate not as harsh
as yours. Every two years or so, I would take somebody's $5 bill, betting
that it would start on the second kick. Never failed.

Happy New Year Gunner!!!!

BTW, one of these years I'll drive down to meet with you and buy a decent
lathe from you.

Ivan Vegvary

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 06:15:27 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..
More in the continuing saga of Gunner and 2 wheeled iron......

After this is resolved, comes the BMW, which should either be the
easiest, or hardest to get running again...sigh

Gunner

Hi Gunner,
Tell me more about the BMW. I am restortin my 1964 R69S which I have
owned
since new. Had the frame powder coated, and the next step is to
disassemble
the engine so I can get to the oi slinger. Only 27k miles on the bike.

Ivan Vegvary


http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/BMW

1973 R90/6, with about 87,000 on the engine. Ive put at least 50,000 of
those miles on it just commuting. For many many years I wanted a BMW,
having owned Harleys, Nortons etc etc etc..and found this one. It had
been disassembled for painting..and left in several large cardboard
boxes and the previous owner lost his Round Tuit. I got it for $600,
about 1993 or so on a Wed evening. Saturday afternoon I rode it around
town. One of the easiest bikes Ive ever found to ride and easy to work
on. They do have some kinks...shrug..but. Plus the riding posture was
such that I, who had given up bike riding after 2 back surgeries could
actually ride it distances without being racked with pain when I got
off. I called it Trudy the Traction Machine. My back felt better
after riding it. Other bikes, Id get off and crawl into the house.

When I got the machine tool service job and starting being on the road
5-15 days at a time, sometimes only with 1 or 2 days off ..honey does
when I was home precluded riding it much. So I parked it, fired it up
every couple months, which got farther and farther apart...and
ultimately Trudy sat in the sun for about 6 yrs. The custom seat is
starting to come apart at the seams. Im gonna need to find someone who
can take the old one apart, use the existing seat fabric as patterns,
and sew a new copy. The seams are ok, the fabric is starting to go
south. Id put tarps on it, but the desert sun is murderous on tarps and
motorcycle seats.

Rear tire wont hold air, so I bought a tube just to keep it inflated,
still havent installed it yet. Recommended tires are Metzlers, but I
had really good luck with Yen Chengs over the years. Boxers tend to be
hard on the rear tires. Its claimed its because of the side to side
vibration of the engine. Shrug. They do tend to eat clutch cables as
well, as a quirk of the design, if you dont stay on top of them.

Left muffler is rotting out, used muff bandage for years, this time Im
going to have a stainless steel sleeve rolled, and then I can tig weld
it on. Owner of a fab shop owes me some favors..shrug.

Battery is hosed of course. BMW wants $250 for a replacement, Autozone
gets $35 for a lawn tractor battery with the same dimensions and CCA.
Had a roommate some years ago, who decided to start pulling parts off it
to make the Honda run. Ive got all the parts back, but the kickstand is
missing, the centerstand is missing all the bolts and springs, the
headlight bucket is missing hardware. All the external switches are
rusty/crusty, with light surface rust on parts of the frame and exhaust
system.

The Luftmeister fairing had part of the windsheild broken when the
asshole took it off, and both Luftmeister saddle bags are cracked from
when he laid the bike on its side to "work on it" Nothing I cant
easily repair with a bit of fiberglass which I have from my boat repair
days, and a coat of paint. Ill probably simply mask of fhe important
bits and rattle can the frame with Rustoleum black. The windshield,
probably replace it with Lexan. Easier to cut to shape and curve.
Though how it will hold up to desert dust at cruising speed...shrug.

Of course all the rubber gas lines are toast, the front master cylinder
had leaked out the fluid, refilled it, it leaked for a couple days,not
it seems to have stopped. When I get to it working on her, Ill use a .45
caliber Stainless steel brush on the bore of the cylinder (front disk)
and clean it out a bit. No kits available, but from varioius bits on the
internet, seals are available from other sources for other applications
that will work.

http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/partsubs.shtml

A number of parts can be straight substituted for the Pri$y BMW Part$

Relays, etc etc etc

Ill probably put in one of the electronic regulators, its claimed they
charge at lower rpms..and the boxers need every bit of help they can get
when charging.
Ill try to locate the Stromberg diaphrams as well if needed..
The bike still has the points ignition, someday Ill put in a CDI unit,
but they are a bit pricey, or used to be.

Id like to have a spare diode board as well. Mine was
working,..shrug..wont tell until I fire it up again.

First thing I need to do is change out the fuel lines, change the oil
and filters and see if I can run it off a car battery and jumper cables
on the work stand. See what it needs.
Id like to install a small oil pressure gauge as well. I had one on it
for years, but it blew out and I stuck in a plug. They have a warning
light for oil pressure, but..I like to see whats going on in the lube
system. Gonna do the same with the Royal Enfield as well when its time.

There used to be an "outlaw" BMW shop in Bakersfield. Johnny's BMW.
He had stocks of used parts, sold the new ones cheaper than any other
BMW shop. Folks would travel to him from all over the state, Lots of
bikes being worked on by their owners in the parking lot, BBQ going on
Saturdays etc.

He wound up ****ing of BMW because of his discounting and lack of German
"correctness" and they pulled his franchise. He had been around for
years, building racers etc.

He had been a paratrooper at Normandy. Claimed to have shot a bunch of
Germans with his Tommy gun, and always figured they would get even
sooner or later...chuckle.

I went by where the shop had been, and its now a granite counter top
place....sigh.

Most of the BMW shops Ive been in recently have been staffed by assholes
trying to peddle 400% overpriced ****.

$485 for ONE muffler? Come on...geeezus JC Witney and other places
sell direct replacements for $90 each.

I bought one of those pressure type cable lubers for spritzing lube in
the control cables of bikes. Still havent used it yet, but will as the
work progresses on all the bikes.


Fired the Honda up again today. Idles just hunky dory, but when I crank
on the throttle, it runs really ragged and wont even out. It has more
compression today. Seems that the rings are starting to free up and it
smokes a bit less, but is still coughing out black smoke on anything
over an idle. When I pulled the plug, it was really black and sooty.
Not oil fouled.

Today I did a bunch of shop clean up, working my way to the
back...chuckle..so didnt get much time to work on the scoots. Tossed
about 500lbs of scrap metal, misc crap Im never ever gonna use. Buddy
came by, wanted to make some speaker cover blanks for his Mustang nitro
car, so dug out some alum diamond plate, used the old grills for
templates, cut em out on the Walker Turner bandsaw, clamped em together
and finished the edges on the belt sanders. Used a microstop and
drilled/champhered mounting holes for 10-32 flat head cap screws,
Stainless steel. I gave him some new tinnerman clips to go with it.
Looks pretty cool actually after installation. I offered to have them
anodized...colbalt blue diamond plate to match his nitrious
tank...chuckle..but he said it looked fine as is.


"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

On Jan 3, 2:40*am, Gunner Asch wrote:

Ill probably put in one of the electronic regulators, its claimed they
charge at lower rpms..and the boxers need every bit of help they can get
when charging.
Ill try to locate the Stromberg diaphrams as well if needed..
The bike still has the points ignition, someday Ill put in a CDI unit,
but they are a bit pricey, or used to be.

might want to look here

http://www.geocities.com/loudgpz/GPZ...ForPoints.html

say goodbye to burned points, those GM modules are cheap,
easy to hide and work really well.

Some googling will show sites that you can rid yourself of points
all together, did that with a Briggs Twin using a crank trigger
sensor from a late model Hyundai

**
mike
**

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:01:29 -0800 (PST), mike
wrote:

On Jan 3, 2:40*am, Gunner Asch wrote:

Ill probably put in one of the electronic regulators, its claimed they
charge at lower rpms..and the boxers need every bit of help they can get
when charging.
Ill try to locate the Stromberg diaphrams as well if needed..
The bike still has the points ignition, someday Ill put in a CDI unit,
but they are a bit pricey, or used to be.

might want to look here

http://www.geocities.com/loudgpz/GPZ...ForPoints.html

say goodbye to burned points, those GM modules are cheap,
easy to hide and work really well.

Some googling will show sites that you can rid yourself of points
all together, did that with a Briggs Twin using a crank trigger
sensor from a late model Hyundai

**
mike
**
Now that~~ is way cool! Ive saved it for further consideration

Many thanks

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

I saved it for possible use in my IC engine that is in progress.
Simple points are always not simple on a small engine. Thanks.

Martin

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:01:29 -0800 (PST), mike
wrote:

On Jan 3, 2:40 am, Gunner Asch wrote:
Ill probably put in one of the electronic regulators, its claimed they
charge at lower rpms..and the boxers need every bit of help they can get
when charging.
Ill try to locate the Stromberg diaphrams as well if needed..
The bike still has the points ignition, someday Ill put in a CDI unit,
but they are a bit pricey, or used to be.
might want to look here

http://www.geocities.com/loudgpz/GPZ...ForPoints.html

say goodbye to burned points, those GM modules are cheap,
easy to hide and work really well.

Some googling will show sites that you can rid yourself of points
all together, did that with a Briggs Twin using a crank trigger
sensor from a late model Hyundai

**
mike
**
Now that~~ is way cool! Ive saved it for further consideration

Many thanks

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""