On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:15:09 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

It is interesting that the VP for Procurement at Chrysler just
resigned for "reasons of health."

He's very sensitive to acute lead poisoning and needs to avoid it. d8-)
============
Chrysler vendor demand for COD has spread north of the border.
Includes a major oil company and a utility.

As the posting from one of our Canadian readers reminds us, the
problems of the Detroit 3 affect large areas of Canada also.

==============

Suppliers demand cash from troubled Chrysler

BARRIE MCKENNA AND GREG KEENAN

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

December 12, 2008 at 8:39 PM EST

WASHINGTON/TORONTO — A major oil company and a utility are
demanding cash up front from ailing Chrysler LLC, offering a
glimpse of the threat posed by a collapse of the North American
auto supply chain.

Executives at Chrysler, which is considered the most vulnerable
of the Detroit Three, refused yesterday to identify the two
suppliers.

“The biggest risk we have is our suppliers coming and saying ‘I
want to be paid on delivery,'“ Chrysler chief financial officer
Ron Kolka explained.

“We can't do that. The math just doesn't work.”
----------------------
http://business.theglobeandmail.com/...wGMJanuary1212

If Detroint is losing money every day, how does the math work any
better with a 45 days same as cash payment plan?


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:15:09 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

It is interesting that the VP for Procurement at Chrysler just
resigned for "reasons of health."

He's very sensitive to acute lead poisoning and needs to avoid it. d8-)
============
Chrysler vendor demand for COD has spread north of the border.
Includes a major oil company and a utility.

As the posting from one of our Canadian readers reminds us, the
problems of the Detroit 3 affect large areas of Canada also.

Sure. When I was at Wasino we sold a lot of production machines to car-parts
manufacturers. More were in Canada than in the US. One tier-one Canadian
vendor had 24 plants in Canada and one in the US.

--
Ed Huntress

Brian Lawson wrote:

Actually, the tooling and part suppliers don't get paid until the tool
produces vehicles for sale. Test shots/parts and pre-production
test-vehicles don't count. In other words, vendor's tooling and
parts made to-date for say the 2010 vehicles won't get paid until at
least September 2009, when the 2010 models go on sale. One of the
little repercussions of this is that if a "model line" is now cut to
reduce the Big3's style offerings, say Chrysler cuts the Grand Caravan
mini-van, the supplier of (again..for instance) the front clip, may
very well have a real problem/no recourse to collect anything. Ever!!


And if a vendor is very hard nosed, demands payment to get a tool or other product
delivered to GM/Ford/Chrysler near near when they go into Chapter 11, the courts can reach
out and snatch back the money the vendor recieved.

Wes

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:38:02 -0500, Wes wrote:



And if a vendor is very hard nosed, demands payment to get a tool or other product
delivered to GM/Ford/Chrysler near near when they go into Chapter 11, the courts can reach
out and snatch back the money the vendor recieved.

Wes


On what grounds? I thought it was normal practice to not extend credit terms
to customers that were bad payers or poor credit risks. Certainly had that
happen to my employer in the past.


Mark Rand
RTFM

"Mark Rand" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:38:02 -0500, Wes wrote:



And if a vendor is very hard nosed, demands payment to get a tool or other
product
delivered to GM/Ford/Chrysler near near when they go into Chapter 11, the
courts can reach
out and snatch back the money the vendor recieved.

Wes


On what grounds?

Preferential treatment of creditors and the federal courts can go back as
far as 180 days.

I thought it was normal practice to not extend credit terms
to customers that were bad payers or poor credit risks. Certainly had that
happen to my employer in the past.

It if you extend credit as part of the process it isn't a COD deal at all.
Changing the terms is only recognized if the PO has the proper language
regarding creditworthyness at the time the stuff is shipped.
The Uniform Commercial Code and contract law are pretty clear.

JC

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:11:00 +0000, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:38:02 -0500, Wes wrote:



And if a vendor is very hard nosed, demands payment to get a tool or other product
delivered to GM/Ford/Chrysler near near when they go into Chapter 11, the courts can reach
out and snatch back the money the vendor recieved.

Wes


On what grounds? I thought it was normal practice to not extend credit terms
to customers that were bad payers or poor credit risks. Certainly had that
happen to my employer in the past.


Mark Rand
RTFM


Hey Mark,

I'm not a lawyer, or even much of a business man, but I can see why
"(On what grounds?)" the courts would do so.

If you were in a failing business, then you would want to "get out"
with as much as you could. Just human nature.

So, still having the power to do so prior to filing Chapter??, pay all
the liquidity you can gather to some sort of "preferred customer"
invoice(s). How about a LOVING wife, although I bet that's a hard one
to find while the hubby has now "fuggedup my whole fugginlife with
this stupid fugginbusiness!!" Or maybe a trusted brother (but NEVER
the B-I-L!!), or even another company in which the business owner has
some real or future interest ("Hi Jack!! I'm considering retiring and
I'm cashing out...how about letting me put an investment in your
company by selling me part of YOUR business Jack? I'll make you a
great special deal!!", Or maybe allow the employees to steal the
company blind until the day the doors close (ever go to a tool & die
shop bankruptcy auction??----rarely ever any "decent" small stuff left
in the building..if it was portable and working, it's gone!!). Or
how about making an "on-account" purchase from the local job-shop
supplier for say nice Gerstner tool boxes full of good stuff for all
the guys on the shop floor, and then "sell them" to the guys on a
"pay-weekly deductions" from pay-roll, so you pocket the payroll and
never pay the creditor 'cause you know you're going out. Or maybe
asking a creditor "If I can arrange to get YOU paid right now, can I
get a job there today?".....don't think that's not happening a lot
right now, only I bet everybody is scared that the company they might
leap to won't fare any better very soon.

Lots and lots of reasons, and none of them complicated. Just simple
understandable dishonesty. If you were a creditor, you'd be asking
"Where did it all go, and can we get any of it back??". And that's
what the courts ask too.

Take care. Merry Christmas from here, as the radio news this morning
announces another 400 jobs are lost today, bringing a three year total
to about 3500 from the community of 5000 next-door.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:13:27 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:


"Mark Rand" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:38:02 -0500, Wes wrote:



And if a vendor is very hard nosed, demands payment to get a tool or other
product
delivered to GM/Ford/Chrysler near near when they go into Chapter 11, the
courts can reach
out and snatch back the money the vendor recieved.

Wes


On what grounds?

Preferential treatment of creditors and the federal courts can go back as
far as 180 days.

I thought it was normal practice to not extend credit terms
to customers that were bad payers or poor credit risks. Certainly had that
happen to my employer in the past.

It if you extend credit as part of the process it isn't a COD deal at all.
Changing the terms is only recognized if the PO has the proper language
regarding creditworthyness at the time the stuff is shipped.
The Uniform Commercial Code and contract law are pretty clear.

JC



In that case, it is not worth any suppliers time selling anything to the big
three on any terms at all right now. None of them can be assumed to be good
for 30 days payment, let alone 60 days. So if a supplier can't insist on cash
with order or at least cash on delivery and expect to keep their money,
they're better of not doing the business.


Mark Rand
RTFM

"Mark Rand" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:13:27 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:


"Mark Rand" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:38:02 -0500, Wes wrote:



And if a vendor is very hard nosed, demands payment to get a tool or
other
product
delivered to GM/Ford/Chrysler near near when they go into Chapter 11,
the
courts can reach
out and snatch back the money the vendor recieved.

Wes


On what grounds?

Preferential treatment of creditors and the federal courts can go back as
far as 180 days.

I thought it was normal practice to not extend credit terms
to customers that were bad payers or poor credit risks. Certainly had
that
happen to my employer in the past.

It if you extend credit as part of the process it isn't a COD deal at all.
Changing the terms is only recognized if the PO has the proper language
regarding creditworthyness at the time the stuff is shipped.
The Uniform Commercial Code and contract law are pretty clear.

JC



In that case, it is not worth any suppliers time selling anything to the
big
three on any terms at all right now. None of them can be assumed to be
good
for 30 days payment, let alone 60 days. So if a supplier can't insist on
cash
with order or at least cash on delivery and expect to keep their money,
they're better of not doing the business.

Correct.
Another factor that must be considered, however, is the $250K per month in
overhead that has to be funded.
Sort of creates a little wishful thinking.

JC

Is the first requirement for a successful GM reorganization a
firing squad?

These two articles tend to indicate that even with a taxpayer
funded "rescue package" or "bridge loan," GM intends to close
their manufacturing operations in the US, thus the US taxpayers
will still see the GM manufacturing employees and vendors on the
streets.

-----------------
GM Mexican Plants Expand as Carmaker Seeks Funds for Rescue

By Thomas Black

Dec. 17 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., the biggest
automaker in the U.S. and Mexico, increased production of $12,625
Chevrolet Aveos south of the border while seeking a bailout to
keep domestic plants from closing.
snip
The Detroit-based company and competitors such as Ford Motor Co.
shifted more manufacturing to Mexico this year to capitalize on
wages less than an eighth of those in the U.S. and ==factories
that make fuel-efficient models.== {emphasis added}
---------------
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...uGE&refer=home
[so much for the song-and-dance about taxpayer investment in fuel
efficient models]

--------------
Troubled automaker GM opens new plant in China
41 mins ago
Troubled automaker GM opens new plant in China

Beleaguered auto giant General Motors opened a new joint venture
factory …

BEIJING (AFP) – Beleaguered auto giant General Motors opened a
new joint venture factory in northeast China Wednesday, as it
sharply cut back capacity in the United States due to the rapid
economic downturn.

The joint venture plant in Shenyang city, inaugurated as the
iconic American brand is fighting for its life amidst the global
crisis, will mass produce the compact Chevrolet Cruze from the
second quarter of 2009.

The plant, capable of producing 150,000 vehicles a year, will
lead to at least a 10 percent increase in GM's total China-based
capacity, which it said was "over a million units".

It will be operated by General Motors China and its joint venture
partners Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp. Group and Shanghai
GM.

The joint venture plant is the second for GM in Shenyang. The
first plant makes the Buick GL8 and the Buick FirstLand executive
wagons and boasts an annual capacity of 50,000 vehicles.

The new opening comes after GM said Friday it was idling 30
percent of its North American production "in response to rapidly
deteriorating market conditions."
snip
-----------------
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081217...H1zh6LBOayBhIF


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

On what grounds?

Preferential treatment of creditors and the federal courts can go back as
far as 180 days.


Thanks for the back up John. I've been through this once too many.

Btw, Merry Christmas if that is a holiday you enjoy.

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"John R. Carroll" wrote:

On what grounds?

Preferential treatment of creditors and the federal courts can go back as
far as 180 days.


Thanks for the back up John. I've been through this once too many.

Btw, Merry Christmas if that is a holiday you enjoy.

Back attcha' Wes. You and yours be blessed.
I'll be fine but it's cold as hell here ( 50F) and I haven't enjoyed a
holiday since Tet.

JC

Ed Huntress wrote:

"john" wrote in message
...


Ed Huntress wrote:

"john" wrote in message
news:YPGdnboFuI4FldnUnZ2dnUVZ_rLinZ2d@giganews. com...


E


I'm beginning to wish I had taken my uncle up on his offer to give me
his 40' boat. I could live on it, and it's a straight shot from here to
the Bahamian Outer Islands...

--
Ed Huntress


That sounds like a plan. Hope you like to eat fish.


I could live on fish. We used to eat it three times a week or more when I
was fishing a lot.



There is a nice little bar on Great Inaguana and the food at the Morton
salt hotel/boarding house was always good. The Green turtle soup was
excellent.


I love green turtle soup. 'Haven't had it for 40 years. Maybe I should
start packing, before the whole economy goes south.
IF you are ever at the airport in Nassau, Bahamas and want a good lunch
you have to go to where the employees eat around the back of the main
terminal, much better food and lower prices. Something like Creole
cooking.


I hope I remember that if it should come to pass. g It's funny you should
mention that, because I once ate in a little restaurant next to the
Christiansted airport, one that was frequented by the locals, and had the
best goat stew I ever ate in the Caribbean.

If the damned little goats weren't bleating around right out back, and if
they didn't look so cute (these are very small goats, black-and-white), I
could have enjoyed it more.

--
Ed Huntress



Another thing I did when I flew into the Islands was to get one of the
limo drivers and hire him for the days I was there. With four of us it
was easier than renting a car and driving half drunk on the wrong side
of the road, and he knew all the good local places to go. Much later in
life I did maintance work throughout the Bahamas over there quite often.

John