One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg


Dave B

Dave B wrote:

One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg


Dave B

So are you using an inductive prox? If so, what if a chip gets in there?

Hell of a lot nicer than those spring loaded chuck keys. Yuck.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Dave B wrote:
One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg

Pretty slick!
Solves the problem of where to put that key also, enforces orderliness.
Now I'll have to make two of them. Let me know where to mail the
royalty check.

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:05:30 -0500, Wes wrote:

Dave B wrote:

One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg


Dave B

So are you using an inductive prox? If so, what if a chip gets in there?

Hell of a lot nicer than those spring loaded chuck keys. Yuck.

Wes

The bottom has slots in it to help with chips,doubt if they will.

They machine a lot of plastics and composites so wasn't much of a
concern.

They used spring loaded ones but the guys were complaining about them.

Dave B

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:11:06 -0600, RB wrote:

Dave B wrote:
One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg

Pretty slick!
Solves the problem of where to put that key also, enforces orderliness.
Now I'll have to make two of them. Let me know where to mail the
royalty check.


Just put in series with the foot pedal for the break.

Dave

Dave B wrote:

The bottom has slots in it to help with chips,doubt if they will.

They machine a lot of plastics and composites so wasn't much of a
concern.

Good. As soon as one fits something to do the thinking, I think a lawyer is born.

They used spring loaded ones but the guys were complaining about them.


No kidding. They put spring loaded ones out in the tool room. I made my own chuck keys
the next night.


Wes

Dave B wrote:
One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg


Dave B

There is a simpler solution.

I left the key in a chuck in High School shop class (took something out
of the chuck, and walked away with the key in the chuck). I got my butt
paddled. Never did it again.

FrankF wrote:

There is a simpler solution.

I left the key in a chuck in High School shop class (took something out
of the chuck, and walked away with the key in the chuck). I got my butt
paddled. Never did it again.

I try to keep the key glued to my hand but a holder and prox beats that spring thing.

To the op, having logic that requires a key raise before every start would prove the key
was in the holder instead of chips. There are very small PLC's that can provide this
function. If it wasn't late I'd likely come up with a relay based solution. I'm off to
bed now.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:26:00 -0800, the infamous Dave B
scrawled the following:

One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg

Good idea.

So, who golfs? Is that Aridzona?

--
Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired.
-- Jules Renard

"Dave B" wrote in message
news
One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg


Dave B
That's a very neat arrangement. I saw an idea years ago to hang the key on a
lever type microswitch connected to open the power leads if the key was not
present. Your idea would be more foolproof.

Don Young

Don Young wrote:

"Dave B" wrote in message
news
One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg


Dave B
That's a very neat arrangement. I saw an idea years ago to hang the key on a
lever type microswitch connected to open the power leads if the key was not
present. Your idea would be more foolproof.

Don Young

Never underestimate fools. I see irritated users just dropping a big
drill bit or boring bar in there to eliminate the hassles.

Try something better to detect when the chuck key is in the vicinity of
the chuck, not when it's in a specific holder. if the chucks aren't
changed often, I can see an arc of hall effect sensors positioned around
the chuck to detect a magnet epoxied on the chuck key. Detect when the
chuck key is in the chuck to disable, as long as it's not in the chuck
let 'er rip. Why would one care if the operator puts the chuck key on
the tool cart, in their back pocket, etc.

Even simpler would be a curved piece of plexiglass as a flip down shield
over the chuck, with a switch to detect when it's down. Flip the shield
up and do your thing with the chuck key, when you take the key out flip
the shield back. If the key is in the chuck, the shield can't come down
and the lathe can't start. Flipping the shield down as you take the
chuck key out takes less time and effort than inserting the chuck key
into a little tube much further away.

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:23:13 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:26:00 -0800, the infamous Dave B
scrawled the following:

One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg

Good idea.

So, who golfs? Is that Aridzona?


Las Vegas

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:42:09 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Don Young wrote:

"Dave B" wrote in message
news
One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg


Dave B
That's a very neat arrangement. I saw an idea years ago to hang the key on a
lever type microswitch connected to open the power leads if the key was not
present. Your idea would be more foolproof.

Don Young

Never underestimate fools. I see irritated users just dropping a big
drill bit or boring bar in there to eliminate the hassles.

Try something better to detect when the chuck key is in the vicinity of
the chuck, not when it's in a specific holder. if the chucks aren't
changed often, I can see an arc of hall effect sensors positioned around
the chuck to detect a magnet epoxied on the chuck key. Detect when the
chuck key is in the chuck to disable, as long as it's not in the chuck
let 'er rip. Why would one care if the operator puts the chuck key on
the tool cart, in their back pocket, etc.

Even simpler would be a curved piece of plexiglass as a flip down shield
over the chuck, with a switch to detect when it's down. Flip the shield
up and do your thing with the chuck key, when you take the key out flip
the shield back. If the key is in the chuck, the shield can't come down
and the lathe can't start. Flipping the shield down as you take the
chuck key out takes less time and effort than inserting the chuck key
into a little tube much further away.


The only thing stopping them in this place is they will be fired on
the spot.

Howeve,r I like the idea and Thanks

On 2008-11-20, Dave B wrote:
One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg

O.K. Two questions:

1) What is to keep someone from taking a chuck key from another
(currently idle) machine?

2) Do all chucks which could be mounted on that machine use the
same chuck key? If so -- are all the chuck keys capable of
operating the safety? Must the operator turn in the other chuck
with its key when getting a different chuck?

Remember -- they keep making better idiots. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

I am not sure why the need for so much engineering here. They sell
lathe chuck keys with built in springs, so that you need to push it
into the chuck and it falls out as soon as pressure is
released. McMaster has plenty of them.

i

On 2008-11-20, Dave B wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:05:30 -0500, Wes wrote:

Dave B wrote:

One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

[ ... ]

They used spring loaded ones but the guys were complaining about them.

Interesting. I've got a spring loaded one for my 3-jaw chuck,
and it still is spring loaded. I'd much rather have it there than to
work without it -- and I *trust* myself to remove the key. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:17:20 -0600, Ignoramus21542
wrote:

I am not sure why the need for so much engineering here. They sell
lathe chuck keys with built in springs, so that you need to push it
into the chuck and it falls out as soon as pressure is
released. McMaster has plenty of them.

i


No kidding...............howbout because they suck?

On 21 Nov 2008 04:16:26 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2008-11-20, Dave B wrote:
One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg

O.K. Two questions:

1) What is to keep someone from taking a chuck key from another
(currently idle) machine?

They are different lengths and are color coded. The switches
adjusted to each one.

2) Do all chucks which could be mounted on that machine use the
same chuck key? If so -- are all the chuck keys capable of
operating the safety? Must the operator turn in the other chuck
with its key when getting a different chuck?

They never change chucks as they are dedicated machines.

Remember -- they keep making better idiots. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

This was just a simple solution and beats what they had (spring loaded
keys)

Thanks for the comments

Dave B

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-11-20, Dave B wrote:
One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg

O.K. Two questions:

1) What is to keep someone from taking a chuck key from another
(currently idle) machine?

Seems like the idea is to prevent errors, not intentional stupidity. I
presume the operator has a vested interest in not starting the lathe
with a chuck key still in it, and if there is a good, safe, convenient
place to put it that both allows it to start the lathe and keeps it in
one place so you can find it right away the next time, why would an
operator not put it there? Seems like defeating the purpose of the
sensor could easily be made grounds for termination, and problem solved.
The sensor eliminates mistakes, the rules kick out the malicious.

"Dave B" wrote in message
news
One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg


Dave B

Looks like a very practical solution. Seems that is the hardest thing to
get my students to do, is not leave the chuck wrench in the spindle.

Not acceptable as a solution as the chuck key can be substituted and
no self respecting safety officer should pass that.
Mark.

Rick Samuel wrote:
"Dave B" wrote in message
news
One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg


Dave B

Looks like a very practical solution. Seems that is the hardest thing to
get my students to do, is not leave the chuck wrench in the spindle.

One of the first things I learned was not to take my hand off the key
while it was in the chuck. I haven't forgotten that 29 years later.

David

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:06:04 -0800, the infamous Dave B
scrawled the following:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:42:09 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Don Young wrote:

"Dave B" wrote in message
news One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg


Dave B
That's a very neat arrangement. I saw an idea years ago to hang the key on a
lever type microswitch connected to open the power leads if the key was not
present. Your idea would be more foolproof.

Don Young

Never underestimate fools. I see irritated users just dropping a big
drill bit or boring bar in there to eliminate the hassles.

Try something better to detect when the chuck key is in the vicinity of
the chuck, not when it's in a specific holder. if the chucks aren't
changed often, I can see an arc of hall effect sensors positioned around
the chuck to detect a magnet epoxied on the chuck key. Detect when the

Then you'll come across the magnetized workpiece which disables the
machine for no apparent reason... Arrrrrrrrrrgh!


chuck key is in the chuck to disable, as long as it's not in the chuck
let 'er rip. Why would one care if the operator puts the chuck key on
the tool cart, in their back pocket, etc.

Even simpler would be a curved piece of plexiglass as a flip down shield
over the chuck, with a switch to detect when it's down. Flip the shield
up and do your thing with the chuck key, when you take the key out flip
the shield back. If the key is in the chuck, the shield can't come down
and the lathe can't start. Flipping the shield down as you take the
chuck key out takes less time and effort than inserting the chuck key
into a little tube much further away.


The only thing stopping them in this place is they will be fired on
the spot.

Howeve,r I like the idea and Thanks

The shield switch soon would be disabled because it's a hassle. The
replacement of the chuck key where it belongs is less of a hassle,
it's for safety, and it would likely be followed, becoming a good
habit in no time. Easier, logical, safe. That should do it.

--
Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired.
-- Jules Renard

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:06:04 -0800, the infamous Dave B
scrawled the following:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:42:09 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Don Young wrote:

"Dave B" wrote in message
news One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg


Dave B
That's a very neat arrangement. I saw an idea years ago to hang the key
on a
lever type microswitch connected to open the power leads if the key was
not
present. Your idea would be more foolproof.

Don Young

Never underestimate fools. I see irritated users just dropping a big
drill bit or boring bar in there to eliminate the hassles.

Try something better to detect when the chuck key is in the vicinity of
the chuck, not when it's in a specific holder. if the chucks aren't
changed often, I can see an arc of hall effect sensors positioned around
the chuck to detect a magnet epoxied on the chuck key. Detect when the

Then you'll come across the magnetized workpiece which disables the
machine for no apparent reason... Arrrrrrrrrrgh!


chuck key is in the chuck to disable, as long as it's not in the chuck
let 'er rip. Why would one care if the operator puts the chuck key on
the tool cart, in their back pocket, etc.

Even simpler would be a curved piece of plexiglass as a flip down shield
over the chuck, with a switch to detect when it's down. Flip the shield
up and do your thing with the chuck key, when you take the key out flip
the shield back. If the key is in the chuck, the shield can't come down
and the lathe can't start. Flipping the shield down as you take the
chuck key out takes less time and effort than inserting the chuck key
into a little tube much further away.


The only thing stopping them in this place is they will be fired on
the spot.

Howeve,r I like the idea and Thanks

The shield switch soon would be disabled because it's a hassle. The
replacement of the chuck key where it belongs is less of a hassle,
it's for safety, and it would likely be followed, becoming a good
habit in no time. Easier, logical, safe. That should do it.

--
Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired.
-- Jules Renard

I like the solution applied to my old Walker-Turner by its previous owner
(unknown). The chuck key is attached to a piece of chain about 2-1/2 feet
long, which is screwed to a tapped hole in the headstock. It keeps me from
losing the key and if you should leave the key in the chuck and turn the
motor on (I never have), the chain wraps around the chuck or spindle and
stops everything short before it gets up to speed.

If the key *should* depart the chuck when you turn on the motor, it only
gets about one foot from the spindle before the chain brings the key up
short.

The way it's arranged, I just drop the key behind the table after using it.
Very neat, very handy, and fairly safe.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:17:20 -0600, the infamous Ignoramus21542
scrawled the following:

I am not sure why the need for so much engineering here. They sell
lathe chuck keys with built in springs, so that you need to push it
into the chuck and it falls out as soon as pressure is
released. McMaster has plenty of them.

The very same day I bought a spring-loaded chuck key for a drill press
is the day I defeated it, since I couldn't take it back. I nearly lost
a lobe off the chuck as it slipped out of place while I was tightening
the chuck, and that was it. They're dreadful, Ig...Absolutely a pain
in the freakin' ass! You've obviously never used one, or the one you
used had a -very- weak spring. Most are antithetical to use.

--
Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired.
-- Jules Renard

On 21 Nov 2008 04:16:26 GMT, the infamous "DoN. Nichols"
scrawled the following:

On 2008-11-20, Dave B wrote:
One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg

O.K. Two questions:

1) What is to keep someone from taking a chuck key from another
(currently idle) machine?

2) Do all chucks which could be mounted on that machine use the
same chuck key? If so -- are all the chuck keys capable of
operating the safety? Must the operator turn in the other chuck
with its key when getting a different chuck?

Remember -- they keep making better idiots. :-)

Then make a better sign:

Zero Tolerance

Due to insurance regulations, anyone caught defeating (or working on a
machine with a defeated) safety mechanism will be fired on the spot.
----------------



--
Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired.
-- Jules Renard

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:26:00 -0800, Dave B wrote:

One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg


Dave B

How about making the switch only operable with the chuck key?

Larry Jaques wrote:

... anyone caught defeating (or working on a
machine with a defeated) safety mechanism will be fired on the spot.

Easy for you to say. Machinists aren't a commodity, you don't get a
replacement from MSC. Presumably the guy you just fired was doing an
acceptable or better job or he wouldn't be there. Will his replacement
be as good? Better a known devil than an unknown one, if you can find a
way to work with the known one.

My $.02,
Bob

Bob Engelhardt wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

... anyone caught defeating (or working on a
machine with a defeated) safety mechanism will be fired on the spot.

Easy for you to say. Machinists aren't a commodity, you don't get a
replacement from MSC. Presumably the guy you just fired was doing an
acceptable or better job or he wouldn't be there. Will his replacement
be as good? Better a known devil than an unknown one, if you can find a
way to work with the known one.

My $.02,
Bob

You can also be sure that the one you fire will badmouth you to every
other potential applicant to that job, further reducing your pool of
qualified applicants. They may also sue you, which will cost you,
whether you ultimately win or not.

Bob Engelhardt wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

... anyone caught defeating (or working on a
machine with a defeated) safety mechanism will be fired on the spot.

Easy for you to say. Machinists aren't a commodity, you don't get a
replacement from MSC. Presumably the guy you just fired was doing an
acceptable or better job or he wouldn't be there. Will his replacement
be as good? Better a known devil than an unknown one, if you can find a
way to work with the known one.

My $.02,
Bob

Fine 'em, or exclude from the year end bonus if they accumulate enough
'points'.

--
Paul Hovnanian
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:37:11 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:
....
I like the solution applied to my old Walker-Turner by its previous
owner (unknown). The chuck key is attached to a piece of chain about
2-1/2 feet long, which is screwed to a tapped hole in the headstock. It
keeps me from losing the key and if you should leave the key in the
chuck and turn the motor on (I never have), the chain wraps around the
chuck or spindle and stops everything short before it gets up to speed.

If the key *should* depart the chuck when you turn on the motor, it only
gets about one foot from the spindle before the chain brings the key up
short.

The way it's arranged, I just drop the key behind the table after using
it. Very neat, very handy, and fairly safe.

The same idea works well for my drill press chuck key. It's on a short
cable, with a swivel near the key -- something like
http://hooklinesinker.mybisi.com/pro...-Wire-Leaders-
Black-24-45lb-3pcs_209691.html or like the striper leaders at
http://www.fishreports.net/fishing-l...aders-rigging-
accessories.html but with a thin cable, plastic-coated, about
2 feet long.

--
jiw

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:49:27 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
wrote:

Bob Engelhardt wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

... anyone caught defeating (or working on a
machine with a defeated) safety mechanism will be fired on the spot.

Easy for you to say. Machinists aren't a commodity, you don't get a
replacement from MSC. Presumably the guy you just fired was doing an
acceptable or better job or he wouldn't be there. Will his replacement
be as good? Better a known devil than an unknown one, if you can find a
way to work with the known one.

My $.02,
Bob

Fine 'em, or exclude from the year end bonus if they accumulate enough
'points'.


Funny how things change. when I was an apprentice boy, some fifty
years ago leaving chuck keys in while turning on the machine was
reason to boot you out the door. You might get away with it once,
every one makes a mistake, or two, but the second time, or if you
damaged the machine you were gone.

Machinists wern't any more plentiful then either. The point is that
Good Machinists, the ones you want to keep, don't leave chuck keys in
the chuck.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Nov 20, 4:26*pm, Dave B wrote:
One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ion=view¤t=chu...

Dave B


For the truly paranoid worried about chips or a defeat cheat, you
could mount a spring loaded plunger on the top, where the plunger hit
the switch, and the switch would allow the plunger to 'overrun' a bit.

You'd have to insert the key into the top, push up a bit to gain
clearance for lip on the bottom, set the key into the recess on the
bottom.

This would keep chips from jamming the switch, and a defeat piece
would have to be purpose-built.
Too long, it won't go in, too short, it won't push the top plunger up
to trip the switch.

That's a lot more work, though!


Dave

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:42:12 -0800 (PST), wrote:



This would keep chips from jamming the switch, and a defeat piece
would have to be purpose-built.
Too long, it won't go in, too short, it won't push the top plunger up
to trip the switch.

That's a lot more work, though!

For a tamper-resistant system that doesn't require much work you could
mount the key from a guard interlock switch on the chuck key. Both
mechanical and coded magnetic switches are available from several
mfrs. For example:

http://www.schmersalusa.com/machine_...sp?ProductID=5
http://www.schmersalusa.com/machine_...p?ProductID=32

--
Ned Simmons

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:50:28 -0500, the infamous Bob Engelhardt
scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques wrote:

... anyone caught defeating (or working on a
machine with a defeated) safety mechanism will be fired on the spot.

Easy for you to say. Machinists aren't a commodity, you don't get a
replacement from MSC. Presumably the guy you just fired was doing an
acceptable or better job or he wouldn't be there. Will his replacement
be as good? Better a known devil than an unknown one, if you can find a
way to work with the known one.

It's the safety warning and the threat which prevent that. Remember,
we were talking about signs, not actual firings.

But if someone knowingly defeats a safety mechanism, shouldn't they be
fired for it? If an OSHA nazi saw it, the company could lose its
licensing, or be fined, or be shut down, right?

LJ, who hasn't always done things the safest way but likely would
_not_ risk being fired if the company I worked for had that warning
posted.

--
Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired.
-- Jules Renard

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:49:53 -0600, the infamous James Waldby
scrawled the following:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:37:11 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:
...
I like the solution applied to my old Walker-Turner by its previous
owner (unknown). The chuck key is attached to a piece of chain about
2-1/2 feet long, which is screwed to a tapped hole in the headstock. It
keeps me from losing the key and if you should leave the key in the
chuck and turn the motor on (I never have), the chain wraps around the
chuck or spindle and stops everything short before it gets up to speed.

If the key *should* depart the chuck when you turn on the motor, it only
gets about one foot from the spindle before the chain brings the key up
short.

The way it's arranged, I just drop the key behind the table after using
it. Very neat, very handy, and fairly safe.

The same idea works well for my drill press chuck key. It's on a short
cable, with a swivel near the key -- something like
http://hooklinesinker.mybisi.com/pro...-Wire-Leaders-
Black-24-45lb-3pcs_209691.html or like the striper leaders at
http://www.fishreports.net/fishing-l...aders-rigging-
accessories.html but with a thin cable, plastic-coated, about
2 feet long.

I attached a rare earth magnet to the front of my drill press and the
chuck key goes there, in front of my eyes, when I'm done. I have no
reason to leave it in the chuck, and have only done so once, about 35
years ago. Noone was hurt.

_Lathe_ chucks, OTOH, can be deadly. Bruce was right in that good
machinists don't leave the key in the chuck, anyway.

--
Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired.
-- Jules Renard

For the truly paranoid worried about chips or a defeat cheat, you
could mount a spring loaded plunger on the top, where the plunger hit
the switch, and the switch would allow the plunger to 'overrun' a bit.

You'd have to insert the key into the top, push up a bit to gain
clearance for lip on the bottom, set the key into the recess on the
bottom.

This would keep chips from jamming the switch, and a defeat piece
would have to be purpose-built.
Too long, it won't go in, too short, it won't push the top plunger up
to trip the switch.

That's a lot more work, though!


Dave

geeez - if you really want to be "secure", just embed an RFID in each chuck
key, and a reader on the machine - if the machine's own key isn't in the
holder then .... and if a "foreign" ID is detected, machine won't start
until the guy from security comes with the safety guy and a triplicate form
and they get the computer guy to assign a new key ID to the machine ....


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On 2008-11-21, James Waldby wrote:

[ ... ]

The same idea works well for my drill press chuck key. It's on a short
cable, with a swivel near the key -- something like
http://hooklinesinker.mybisi.com/pro...-Wire-Leaders-
Black-24-45lb-3pcs_209691.html or like the striper leaders at
http://www.fishreports.net/fishing-l...aders-rigging-
accessories.html but with a thin cable, plastic-coated, about
2 feet long.

Hmm ... I've got a modified key-back retractor with a sliding
collar around the Jacobs key on the side of my drill press. (They used
to be among the things that GSA carried.) Oh yes -- also the key has a
spring around the pin to kick the key out so the key-back can retract it
out of the danger zone.

However -- the chuck normally in the drill press these days is a
Jacobs version of the Albrecht keyless chuck, so the key hangs there
unused. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Nice gizmo, Dave.

The single problem that I've encountered with chuck keys/wrenches is not
being able to readily see them, or to easily distinguish them from other
tools laying around the various machines.

The magnetic key holder on the drill press is a good solution.

Putting some bright colors on lathe chuck wrenches helps by making them more
visible.
Colored shrink tubing works well for me. When it starts getting grungy,
clean it with lacquer thinner/acetone or replace the tubing.

The bright colors stand out in a pile of tools or metal parts, and might
help with recognition before hitting the run/start button.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Dave B" wrote in message
news
One our customers recently had an operator that left the chuck key in
the chuck and started the spindle.

They asked us to provide a solution and here is what it looks like.
We have installed 20 of them in the last few weeks.

Will not allow the spindle to start without the key in place and if
removed of course the spindle stops.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...chuck_safe.jpg


Dave B

Larry Jaques wrote:

Then make a better sign:

Zero Tolerance

Due to insurance regulations, anyone caught defeating (or working on a
machine with a defeated) safety mechanism will be fired on the spot.


I like the "This machine has no brain, use your own", sign.

Wes