I just pulled the gearbox that drives the table on my Abene VF-3 mill - I
got tired of the belt slipping off every time I went to raise the table -
figured it was oil leaking past the old hardened seals that was causing the
problem - once I change the seals we shall see if that is the issue. But,
the question now is:

should I change the flat belt to a ribbed belt - it wouldn't be hard to put
the pulleys on my lathe and turn grooves in them to match a grooved pulley,
but if I did that there would be no going back to the old flat belt - and I
would loose a safety factor

Second Q - would a new flat belt make any difference?

for those who don't know what an Abene mill looks like, there is a photo on
my web page (below) under hobbies/tools - the drive motor for the table is
in the base behind the box holding the electrics

--
Bill
www.wbnoble.com


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

....
should I change the flat belt to a ribbed belt - it wouldn't be hard to
put the pulleys on my lathe and turn grooves in them to match a grooved
pulley, but if I did that there would be no going back to the old flat
belt - and I would loose a safety factor

Second Q - would a new flat belt make any difference?


I wouldn't change the design. Flat belts with all good components are
reliable. You might want the double check that your flat belt pulleys are
crowned, or that the crown hasn't wore off. This is what keeps the flat belt
from tracking off.

Karl

On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 20:14:23 -0800, "Bill Noble"
wrote:

I just pulled the gearbox that drives the table on my Abene VF-3 mill - I
got tired of the belt slipping off every time I went to raise the table -
figured it was oil leaking past the old hardened seals that was causing the
problem - once I change the seals we shall see if that is the issue. But,
the question now is:

should I change the flat belt to a ribbed belt - it wouldn't be hard to put
the pulleys on my lathe and turn grooves in them to match a grooved pulley,
but if I did that there would be no going back to the old flat belt - and I
would loose a safety factor

Second Q - would a new flat belt make any difference?

for those who don't know what an Abene mill looks like, there is a photo on
my web page (below) under hobbies/tools - the drive motor for the table is
in the base behind the box holding the electrics

What we put on mine is a ribbed belt. However we left the pulleys
alone and run the belt inside out (the flat side to the pulley). It's
worked great for many years now.

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
...
should I change the flat belt to a ribbed belt - it wouldn't be hard to
put the pulleys on my lathe and turn grooves in them to match a grooved
pulley, but if I did that there would be no going back to the old flat
belt - and I would loose a safety factor

Second Q - would a new flat belt make any difference?


I wouldn't change the design. Flat belts with all good components are
reliable. You might want the double check that your flat belt pulleys are
crowned, or that the crown hasn't wore off. This is what keeps the flat
belt from tracking off.

Karl


I kinda like it when a belt slips instead of a gear loosing its teeth or
something breaking. I would assume that the drive components are reasonably
matched for strength and would hesitate to increase the belt capacity. A new
belt can certainly help if the old one is glazed or oil-soaked.

Don Young

"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 20:14:23 -0800, "Bill Noble"
wrote:

I just pulled the gearbox that drives the table on my Abene VF-3 mill - I
got tired of the belt slipping off every time I went to raise the table -
figured it was oil leaking past the old hardened seals that was causing
the
problem - once I change the seals we shall see if that is the issue. But,
the question now is:

should I change the flat belt to a ribbed belt - it wouldn't be hard to
put
the pulleys on my lathe and turn grooves in them to match a grooved
pulley,
but if I did that there would be no going back to the old flat belt - and
I
would loose a safety factor

Second Q - would a new flat belt make any difference?

for those who don't know what an Abene mill looks like, there is a photo
on
my web page (below) under hobbies/tools - the drive motor for the table is
in the base behind the box holding the electrics

What we put on mine is a ribbed belt. However we left the pulleys
alone and run the belt inside out (the flat side to the pulley). It's
worked great for many years now.

so, now, after some correspondence with the factory, some measuring, and
some flailing around including repainting the gearbox cover casting 3 times
(there was oil under the filler putty that made the casting smooth - took a
while to figure that one out), I'm now close to having time to reassemble
it.

1. the oil seals (which I destroyed getting them out) are 17mmX35mmX10mm -
it seems to me there ought to be a matching standard seal - but I am not
finding one - of course I can do some additional machining but does this
size seem familiar to anyone?

2. belt - Abene says they used both V and flat belts on this machine - mine
has triple V belts to drive the spindle and a single flat belt to drive the
table gearbox - the flat belt sheaves, measured at the crown are 88 mm
(about 3.5 inches) and 51 mm (about 2 inches) - I'm thinking of changing to
a J series micro-V belt - any thoughts on this idea? I guess I could change
to a V belt - it only needs to hold 2 HP after all.

3 the original flat belt is 40 inches X 1 inch - does that size seem
standard? The belt in there now is a Gates SpeedFlex, which is long
obsolete. Any thoughts other than using a microV belt?


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

for those interested in teh Abene mills, I've uploaded a photo of the
insides of the gearbox that drives the table to the drop box, though I don't
see the files there just yet - file names all start with Abene_VHF-3-Gear -
If you have one of these, it's best not to take it apart - but if you must,
remove the input and output shafts, then unscrew the four nuts holding the
assembly together, then pull the back off - you will need to use a pry bar
to press the brass gear down as you do this - that will push its bearing out
of its mounting hole.

This is very nicely made, notice all the ball bearings - all the gears ride
on double pairs of needle bearings - this is fine Swiss workmanship - this
particular mill was made in 1970

I took it apart because I wanted to clean and paint part of the casting and
to replace oil seals - the oil seals are 17mmX35mmX10mm - you can replace
them without taking the gearbox apart (I recommend not taking it apart, now
that I've done it) -


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:35:48 -0800, "Bill Noble"
wrote:


"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 20:14:23 -0800, "Bill Noble"
wrote:

I just pulled the gearbox that drives the table on my Abene VF-3 mill - I
got tired of the belt slipping off every time I went to raise the table -
figured it was oil leaking past the old hardened seals that was causing
the
problem - once I change the seals we shall see if that is the issue. But,
the question now is:

should I change the flat belt to a ribbed belt - it wouldn't be hard to
put
the pulleys on my lathe and turn grooves in them to match a grooved
pulley,
but if I did that there would be no going back to the old flat belt - and
I
would loose a safety factor

Second Q - would a new flat belt make any difference?

for those who don't know what an Abene mill looks like, there is a photo
on
my web page (below) under hobbies/tools - the drive motor for the table is
in the base behind the box holding the electrics

What we put on mine is a ribbed belt. However we left the pulleys
alone and run the belt inside out (the flat side to the pulley). It's
worked great for many years now.

so, now, after some correspondence with the factory, some measuring, and
some flailing around including repainting the gearbox cover casting 3 times
(there was oil under the filler putty that made the casting smooth - took a
while to figure that one out), I'm now close to having time to reassemble
it.

1. the oil seals (which I destroyed getting them out) are 17mmX35mmX10mm -
it seems to me there ought to be a matching standard seal - but I am not
finding one - of course I can do some additional machining but does this
size seem familiar to anyone?

2. belt - Abene says they used both V and flat belts on this machine - mine
has triple V belts to drive the spindle and a single flat belt to drive the
table gearbox - the flat belt sheaves, measured at the crown are 88 mm
(about 3.5 inches) and 51 mm (about 2 inches) - I'm thinking of changing to
a J series micro-V belt - any thoughts on this idea? I guess I could change
to a V belt - it only needs to hold 2 HP after all.

3 the original flat belt is 40 inches X 1 inch - does that size seem
standard? The belt in there now is a Gates SpeedFlex, which is long
obsolete. Any thoughts other than using a microV belt?


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

From SKF's site, the seal is a CR 17X35X10 CRSA1 R, US stock no.6712.
For the belt, I'd download Gates' belt sizing app. The micro v sounds
more likely to fit in the same space as the flat belt than a standard
V.

Regards,

Pete Keillor

On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:13:49 -0500, Pete Keillor
wrote:

From SKF's site, the seal is a CR 17X35X10 CRSA1 R, US stock no.6712.
About $2 from Motion Industries.

For the belt, I'd download Gates' belt sizing app. The micro v sounds
more likely to fit in the same space as the flat belt than a standard
V.
Any good belting supplier can make a vulcanized splice in suitable
material to replace the original. I use these folks:
http://www.colmarbelting.com/products.htm

Habasit, Siegling, or Shingle are three manufacurers of the raw
belting. Google those names plus "belt" and you can probably find
someone close to home you can deal with in person.

--
Ned Simmons

snip-

2. belt - Abene says they used both V and flat belts on this machine -
mine
has triple V belts to drive the spindle and a single flat belt to drive
the
table gearbox - the flat belt sheaves, measured at the crown are 88 mm
(about 3.5 inches) and 51 mm (about 2 inches) - I'm thinking of changing
to
a J series micro-V belt - any thoughts on this idea? I guess I could
change
to a V belt - it only needs to hold 2 HP after all.

3 the original flat belt is 40 inches X 1 inch - does that size seem
standard? The belt in there now is a Gates SpeedFlex, which is long
obsolete. Any thoughts other than using a microV belt?


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

From SKF's site, the seal is a CR 17X35X10 CRSA1 R, US stock no.6712.
For the belt, I'd download Gates' belt sizing app. The micro v sounds
more likely to fit in the same space as the flat belt than a standard
V.

Regards,

Pete Keillor

Thanks, I'd forgotten about SKF, I'll see if that seal is easy to get -
right now I've machined a ring and used an oil pump seal that is common

as for the belt - I really really REALLY want to forever solve the problem
of the belt slipping off the sheaves - I don't mind it slipping - in fact,
that is a safety feature - so far, I'm thinking of using the Gates micro-V
belt (specifically 400J10) and I am thinking I'll make new sheaves since
that is a good use for my lathe and it will be a permanent solution - the
other possibility is to add a lip to the existing flat belt sheaves so that
the belt can't slip off under overload.

thoughts? remarks?

I did ask the factory in sweeden about this, they suggested replacing the
belt - do you guys believe that a belt replacement alone will fix the
problem? the old belt is thin woven fiber and it's oily so it is slippery,
but I tried removing it and cleaning the belt and the sheaves and it still
slipped off. On this machine, putting the belt on is something of an ordeal
because I have to remove a cover over the power control relays, unbolt the
relay assembly and swing it out of the way, and then reach into a hole in
the base of the mill to put the belt back on (and then reassemble
everything) - it's not like a lathe with a flat belt where you just reach
over and put it back in place


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:41:10 -0800, "Bill Noble"
wrote:


snip-

2. belt - Abene says they used both V and flat belts on this machine -
mine
has triple V belts to drive the spindle and a single flat belt to drive
the
table gearbox - the flat belt sheaves, measured at the crown are 88 mm
(about 3.5 inches) and 51 mm (about 2 inches) - I'm thinking of changing
to
a J series micro-V belt - any thoughts on this idea? I guess I could
change
to a V belt - it only needs to hold 2 HP after all.

3 the original flat belt is 40 inches X 1 inch - does that size seem
standard? The belt in there now is a Gates SpeedFlex, which is long
obsolete. Any thoughts other than using a microV belt?


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

From SKF's site, the seal is a CR 17X35X10 CRSA1 R, US stock no.6712.
For the belt, I'd download Gates' belt sizing app. The micro v sounds
more likely to fit in the same space as the flat belt than a standard
V.

Regards,

Pete Keillor

Thanks, I'd forgotten about SKF, I'll see if that seal is easy to get -
right now I've machined a ring and used an oil pump seal that is common

as for the belt - I really really REALLY want to forever solve the problem
of the belt slipping off the sheaves - I don't mind it slipping - in fact,
that is a safety feature - so far, I'm thinking of using the Gates micro-V
belt (specifically 400J10) and I am thinking I'll make new sheaves since
that is a good use for my lathe and it will be a permanent solution - the
other possibility is to add a lip to the existing flat belt sheaves so that
the belt can't slip off under overload.

thoughts? remarks?

Personally I think that going poly-v is overboard here. I've never
had the belt slip off mine since putting a poly-v belt on backwards on
the flat belt pulleys that are there. I'm trying to remember if it
came off before that. It might have but the reason for changing was
because the original broke. When we changed mine we originally ordered
a toothed belt and put it on flat side in. But it was to short and
when I stretched it over the pulleys it made a lot of noise. So we
went to the local parts store a found a poly-v for a car that was the
right length. We put it on inside out and it's been fine since. That
was at least 10 years ago.

As for the pulleys I don't recommend machining flanges. Unless
they're very tall they're more likely to make the belt come off. The
crown on the pulleys will keep the belt pulled to center if it's tight
enough to run properly.

I did ask the factory in sweeden about this, they suggested replacing the
belt - do you guys believe that a belt replacement alone will fix the
problem? the old belt is thin woven fiber and it's oily so it is slippery,
but I tried removing it and cleaning the belt and the sheaves and it still
slipped off. On this machine, putting the belt on is something of an ordeal
because I have to remove a cover over the power control relays, unbolt the
relay assembly and swing it out of the way, and then reach into a hole in
the base of the mill to put the belt back on (and then reassemble
everything) - it's not like a lathe with a flat belt where you just reach
over and put it back in place

I agree on the pain of replacing that belt. I remember the problems
I had changing mine.