On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
farther?

I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.

Thanks

TMT

We're not cutting back at all. The long plan assumed that there'd be
some volatility along the way and factored that in. We've avoided
overspending when times seemed lush so we wouldn't need to cut back
when downturns came.

The biggest worry here is that of the Democrats discovering the
prudent and provident, taking from us to give to the improvident,
lazy, and even illegals. Step one might be to disarm the citizenry so
a revolt or uprising from the peasants might be more easily quelled.

Forty some years ago, a Democrat who was a real leader (JFK) said "Ask
not..." etc. The recent campaign mail barrage from the dems asks if
my household would "get any" under a GOP administration. The appeal
is to immediate greed without regard for debt for later or the obvious
strategic vulnerability that national debt produces. This appeal is
obviously working. That worries me much more than market gyrations.
When a democratic republic reaches the point where both the people and
the government regard it as OK to pillage and plunder the treasury and
the citizenry, that entity's days are numbered. Greedy lazy citizens
with no effective leadership exacerbate the vulnerability.

On 2008-10-26, Don Foreman wrote:
The biggest worry here is that of the Democrats discovering the
prudent and provident, taking from us to give to the improvident,
lazy, and even illegals. Step one might be to disarm the citizenry so
a revolt or uprising from the peasants might be more easily quelled.

Don, keep in mind that the "Wall Street Rescue" amounts to exactly
what you are decrying above. Taking money from us and rescuing the
reckless finance operators.

i

On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 00:28:46 -0500, Ignoramus3071
wrote:

On 2008-10-26, Don Foreman wrote:
The biggest worry here is that of the Democrats discovering the
prudent and provident, taking from us to give to the improvident,
lazy, and even illegals. Step one might be to disarm the citizenry so
a revolt or uprising from the peasants might be more easily quelled.

Don, keep in mind that the "Wall Street Rescue" amounts to exactly
what you are decrying above. Taking money from us and rescuing the
reckless finance operators.

I do have that in mind and I deplore it.

On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 00:28:46 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus3071
scrawled the following:

On 2008-10-26, Don Foreman wrote:
The biggest worry here is that of the Democrats discovering the
prudent and provident, taking from us to give to the improvident,
lazy, and even illegals. Step one might be to disarm the citizenry so
a revolt or uprising from the peasants might be more easily quelled.

Don, keep in mind that the "Wall Street Rescue" amounts to exactly
what you are decrying above. Taking money from us and rescuing the
reckless finance operators.

This came in my email box this morning and it's fitting here.

--snip--
I'VE DECIDED TO VOTE DEMOCRATIC FOR THESE REASONS!

I'm voting Democrat because I'm way too irresponsible to own a gun,
and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from
murderers and thieves.

I'm voting Democrat because I love the fact that I can now marry
whatever I want. I've decided to marry my horse.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe oil companies' profits of 4% on
a gallon of gas are obscene but the government taxing the same gallon
of gas at 15% isn't.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe the government will do a better
job of spending the money I earn than I would.

I'm voting Democrat because freedom of speech is fine as long as
nobody is offended by it.

I'm voting Democrat because when we pull out of Iraq I trust that the
bad guys will stop what they're doing because they now think we're
good people.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe that people who can't tell us if
it will rain on Friday CAN tell us that the polar ice caps will melt
away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius.

I'm voting Democrat because I'm not concerned about the slaughter of
millions of babies so long as we keep all death row inmates alive.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe that business should not be
allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and
give the rest away to the government for redistribution as THEY see
fit.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite
the Constitution every few days to suit some fringe kooks who would
NEVER get their agendas past the voters.

I'm voting Democrat because my head is so firmly planted up my a_ _
it's unlikely that I'll ever have another point of view.

'A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own'
--snip--
And YOU want to vote for Obama, a VERY liberal Democrat?

--
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.

On Oct 25, 11:28*pm, Ignoramus3071
wrote:
On 2008-10-26, Don Foreman wrote:

The biggest worry here is that of the Democrats discovering the
prudent and provident, *taking from us to give to the improvident,
lazy, and even illegals. *Step one might be to disarm the citizenry so
a revolt or uprising from the peasants might be more easily quelled. *

Don, keep in mind that the "Wall Street Rescue" amounts to exactly
what you are decrying above. Taking money from us and rescuing the
reckless finance operators.

i

You mean like this...

You would think they would at least buy some new tools...

White House tells banks to stop hoarding money
5 mins ago
WASHINGTON – An impatient White House served notice Tuesday on banks
and other financial companies receiving billions of dollars in federal
help to quit hoarding the money and start making more loans.

"What we're trying to do is get banks to do what they are supposed to
do, which is support the system that we have in America. And banks
exist to lend money," White House press secretary Dana Perino said.

Though there are limits on how much Washington can pressure banks, she
noted that banks are regulated by the federal government.

"They will be watching very closely, and they're working with the
banks," she said.

Anthony Ryan, Treasury's acting undersecretary for domestic finance,
made the same point in a speech in New York before financial
executives.

"As these banks and institutions are reinforced and supported with
taxpayer funds, they must meet their responsibility to lend, and
support the American people and the U.S. economy," Ryan told the
annual meeting of the Securities Industry and Financial Markets
Association. "It is in a strengthened institution's best financial
interest to increase lending once it has received government funding."

Said Perino: "The way that banks make money is by lending money. And
so, they have every incentive to move forward and start using this
money."

There has been some evidence of easier lending, Perino said. But it's
not enough to calm stock markets or help small businesses that depend
on a free flow of credit, not just to expand but to maintain
operations through making payroll or financing inventories.

The government is making efforts on several fronts to thaw the frozen
credit markets and combat the worst financial crisis to hit the
country since the 1930s. But so far, the efforts have shown little in
the way of results. Libor, the London Interbank Offered Rate, a key
goalpost for international lending, edged down only marginally on
Monday and still remains at elevated levels.

The Federal Reserve began a program Monday to purchase the short-term
debt of businesses, known as commercial paper. This market has been
frozen since the collapse of Lehman Brothers spooked credit markets
last month.

Under the authority of the $700 billion financial bailout plan
approved by Congress and signed by President Bush earlier this month,
the administration also plans to dole out $250 billion to banks in
return for partial ownership. The Treasury Department, which is
overseeing the massive capital injection program along with the rest
of the bailout, will pour $125 billion into nine of the country's
largest banks this week. Another $125 billion will go to other banks.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has said the money was aimed at
rebuilding banks' reserves so that they would resume more normal
lending practices. But reports then surfaced that bankers might
instead use the money to buy other banks. Indeed, the government
approved PNC Financial Services Group Inc. to receive $7.7 billion in
return for company stock and, at the same time, PNC said it was
acquiring National City Corp. for $5.58 billion.

Officials have said that there are few strings attached to the capital-
infusion program because too many rules would discourage financial
institutions from participating.

On Oct 25, 11:07*pm, Don Foreman
wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools

wrote:
In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
farther?

I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.

Thanks

TMT

We're not cutting back at all. *The long plan assumed that there'd be
some volatility along the way and factored that in. *We've avoided
overspending *when times seemed lush so we wouldn't need to cut back
when downturns came. * *

The biggest worry here is that of the Democrats discovering the
prudent and provident, *taking from us to give to the improvident,
lazy, and even illegals. *Step one might be to disarm the citizenry so
a revolt or uprising from the peasants might be more easily quelled. *

Forty some years ago, a Democrat who was a real leader (JFK) said "Ask
not..." etc. *The recent campaign mail barrage from the dems asks if
my household would "get any" under a GOP administration. *The appeal
is to immediate greed without regard for debt for later or the obvious
strategic vulnerability that national debt produces. This appeal is
obviously working. *That worries me much more than market gyrations.
When a democratic republic reaches the point where both the people and
the government regard it as OK to pillage and plunder the treasury and
the citizenry, *that entity's days are numbered. *Greedy lazy citizens
with no effective leadership exacerbate the vulnerability. *

Nice try but it has been a Republican so far that has run up a
trillion national debt that your grandchildren don't have a chance in
hell to pay off.

Sounds like you might be one of the few who would benefit from the
McCain tax plan.

I doubt that you will get a chance to see it in action.

TMT

On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:32:24 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Oct 25, 11:07*pm, Don Foreman
wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools

wrote:
In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
farther?

I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.

Thanks

TMT

We're not cutting back at all. *The long plan assumed that there'd be
some volatility along the way and factored that in. *We've avoided
overspending *when times seemed lush so we wouldn't need to cut back
when downturns came. * *

The biggest worry here is that of the Democrats discovering the
prudent and provident, *taking from us to give to the improvident,
lazy, and even illegals. *Step one might be to disarm the citizenry so
a revolt or uprising from the peasants might be more easily quelled. *

Forty some years ago, a Democrat who was a real leader (JFK) said "Ask
not..." etc. *The recent campaign mail barrage from the dems asks if
my household would "get any" under a GOP administration. *The appeal
is to immediate greed without regard for debt for later or the obvious
strategic vulnerability that national debt produces. This appeal is
obviously working. *That worries me much more than market gyrations.
When a democratic republic reaches the point where both the people and
the government regard it as OK to pillage and plunder the treasury and
the citizenry, *that entity's days are numbered. *Greedy lazy citizens
with no effective leadership exacerbate the vulnerability. *

Nice try but it has been a Republican so far that has run up a
trillion national debt that your grandchildren don't have a chance in
hell to pay off.

Wrong. It has happened on a Republican's watch but it started more
than 8 years ago. Greed, and the notion that cheating and artful
dodging are clever if successful, are non-partisan. Campaign appeals
to greed are too. Both parties are appealing to greed, albeit in
different ways.

There will always be mindless party parrots of both kinds. I regard
their spewings and repetitions as I do those of mindless zeolots of
any stripe. If the shoe fits...

I don't like either candidate much regardless of their party
affiliations. One scares me more than the other and party affiliation
has little or nothing to do with it. We've had great leaders from
both parties, though none in recent memory.

If my grandchildren live thru a depression they may just get their
values right, greed may fall out of fashion and favor, and this
country just might surivive. The folks that lived thru the last
depression turned out to be a generation of producers, savers and
patriots.

On Oct 28, 10:25*pm, Don Foreman
wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:32:24 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools





wrote:
On Oct 25, 11:07*pm, Don Foreman
wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools

wrote:
In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
farther?

I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.

Thanks

TMT

We're not cutting back at all. *The long plan assumed that there'd be
some volatility along the way and factored that in. *We've avoided
overspending *when times seemed lush so we wouldn't need to cut back
when downturns came. * *

The biggest worry here is that of the Democrats discovering the
prudent and provident, *taking from us to give to the improvident,
lazy, and even illegals. *Step one might be to disarm the citizenry so
a revolt or uprising from the peasants might be more easily quelled. *

Forty some years ago, a Democrat who was a real leader (JFK) said "Ask
not..." etc. *The recent campaign mail barrage from the dems asks if
my household would "get any" under a GOP administration. *The appeal
is to immediate greed without regard for debt for later or the obvious
strategic vulnerability that national debt produces. This appeal is
obviously working. *That worries me much more than market gyrations.
When a democratic republic reaches the point where both the people and
the government regard it as OK to pillage and plunder the treasury and
the citizenry, *that entity's days are numbered. *Greedy lazy citizens
with no effective leadership exacerbate the vulnerability. *

Nice try but it has been a Republican so far that has run up a
trillion national debt that your grandchildren don't have a chance in
hell to pay off.

Wrong. *It has happened on a Republican's watch but it started more
than 8 years ago. *Greed, and the notion that cheating and artful
dodging are clever if successful, are non-partisan. *Campaign appeals
to greed are too. Both parties are appealing to greed, albeit in
different ways. *

There will always be mindless party parrots of both kinds. I regard
their spewings and repetitions as I do those of mindless zeolots of
any stripe. *If the shoe fits... * *

I don't like either candidate much regardless of *their party
affiliations. One scares me more than the other and party affiliation
has little or nothing to do with it. *We've had great leaders from
both parties, though none in recent memory.

If my grandchildren live thru a depression *they may just get their
values right, greed may fall out of fashion and favor, and this
country just might *surivive. *The folks that lived thru the last
depression turned out to be a generation of producers, savers and
patriots. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It has happened on the Republican's watch...and they had EIGHT years
to turn it around.

They did not....a trillion dollar debt says that they took all they
could.

And you are quite right about this nation's grandchildren...if they do
survive the coming years, it will be not because of anything we did
for them.

This generation has failed its children.

TMT

Name me a generation that didn't fail it's children. Earlier
genrations just didn't have the high population and the industrial
revolution to deal with. By the 16th century, England had alreay run
out of trees, for instance. Tin, copper and zinc mines were played out
around the Mediterrainian Sea by----- a few hundred AD or earlier.

Now, totally STOPPING the industrial revolution with population still
growing as it is won't curtail the basic problem.

Pete Stanaitis
-------------------------

This generation has failed its children.

TMT

On Nov 2, 11:17*am, spaco wrote:
Name me a generation that didn't fail it's children. * Earlier
genrations just didn't have the high population and the industrial
revolution to deal with. * By the 16th century, England had alreay run
out of trees, for instance. * Tin, copper and zinc mines were played out
around the Mediterrainian Sea by----- a few hundred AD or earlier.

Now, totally STOPPING the industrial revolution with population still
growing as it is won't curtail the basic problem.

Pete Stanaitis
-------------------------



This generation has failed its children.

TMT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Pardon me if I focus on THIS generation....you know the one that is
not done yet saddling its children with an economic burden that needs
to be paid.

Funny how does who try to minimize the problem never have the answer
as to how to pay the debt off.


TMT

On Sat, 1 Nov 2008 15:43:59 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:


It has happened on the Republican's watch...and they had EIGHT years
to turn it around.

The people didn't want it turned around. They believed in something
for nothing since housing prices could only go up even if value did
not.

They did not....a trillion dollar debt says that they took all they
could.

Creation of that debt had bipartisan support in the congress.

And you are quite right about this nation's grandchildren...if they do
survive the coming years, it will be not because of anything we did
for them.

This generation has failed its children.

Speak for yourself. My several kids are doing fine, and I'd say their
kids are seeing fine examples.

On Nov 2, 2:54*pm, Don Foreman wrote:
On Sat, 1 Nov 2008 15:43:59 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools

wrote:

It has happened on the Republican's watch...and they had EIGHT years
to turn it around.

The people didn't want it turned around. They believed in something
for nothing since *housing prices could only go up even if value did
not.



They did not....a trillion dollar debt says that they took all they
could.

Creation of that debt had bipartisan support in the congress. *



And you are quite right about this nation's grandchildren...if they do
survive the coming years, it will be not because of anything we did
for them.

This generation has failed its children.

Speak for yourself. *My several kids are doing fine, and I'd say their
kids are seeing fine examples. *

Don, you know enough about the process...or I assume that you do...to
realize that this is a Republican debt.

As for your kids "doing well", they will be bearing the yoke of this
debt for their entire lives.

Don't kid yourself...the Republicans have made your kids slaves.

TMT

It has happened on the Republican's watch...and they had EIGHT years
to turn it around.

The people didn't want it turned around. They believed in something
for nothing since housing prices could only go up even if value did
not.

That's bull. The "people" didn't know a damn thing about what was going on.
All this stuff about the financial crisis was a big shock to most people.
See, they thought they elected republicans who were responsible with their
money. Little did they know that republicans are the last people you should
trust with anything of value. Blaming people for investing in an asset that
is going up and making them money is stupid. Expecting people to know when
an economic boom is about to end is also stupid. Every day I see how the top
financial experts all have lost tons of money because none of them saw this
coming. So if the experts were taken by surprise why wouldn't the ordinary
Joe?



They did not....a trillion dollar debt says that they took all they
could.

Creation of that debt had bipartisan support in the congress.

Not really. The ship of state was run by all republicans for over six
straight years and all the Democrats could do about it was bitch. Just
because a few of them went along with the republican financial plan doesn't
remove the blame from those who made the decisions and set the policies that
got us where we are today. The blame lies squarely on the republicans and
their low taxes, free trade, and deregulation of everything policies. They
put in their supply side agenda and now we have the results. It failed
badly. If the Democrats had been in charge they would not have done what the
republicans did. Probably the opposite in fact.


And you are quite right about this nation's grandchildren...if they do
survive the coming years, it will be not because of anything we did
for them.

This generation has failed its children.

Speak for yourself. My several kids are doing fine, and I'd say their
kids are seeing fine examples.

Gee, since you and yours are doing great then that must be what the whole
generation is like. Kind of like Clark Gable saying he was doing great
financially even in the Depression so everybody else must be too. Give me a
break. If your kids were doing badly would that be a sign everyone else was
too?

Hawke