I am setting ups a small materials fabrication shop (metal, plastic,
wood). My main piece of equipment will be a CNC plasma/router table.
I have an idea for other pieces of equipment but since I have a
limited budget and need to make the best decisions for equipment. My
question is what would you recommend for a basic shop setup for doing;
Duct work,
Metal art,
Brackets,
Enclosures,
Face plates,
Gates,
Signs.

I know that this is a long list of things and that some items will
require heavy equipment. I am thinking that if I keep to 1/8" and
smaller I should be able to keep the equipment costs from sky
rocketing. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 05:02:36 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Rob
scrawled the following:

I am setting ups a small materials fabrication shop (metal, plastic,
wood). My main piece of equipment will be a CNC plasma/router table.
I have an idea for other pieces of equipment but since I have a
limited budget and need to make the best decisions for equipment. My
question is what would you recommend for a basic shop setup for doing;
Duct work,
Metal art,
Brackets,
Enclosures,
Face plates,
Gates,
Signs.

I know that this is a long list of things and that some items will
require heavy equipment. I am thinking that if I keep to 1/8" and
smaller I should be able to keep the equipment costs from sky
rocketing. Any help would be appreciated.

It might help if you tell us what equipment, tools and experience you
have now.

An obvious basic list starts he

Drill press & billdrits
4" angle grinders, grinding wheels, and flap sanders
4x6" bandsaw w/ good bimetal blade
hacksaw w/ GOOD bimetal blades
small welder and decent helmet/gloves/apron/area to use them.
welding table
anvil
sledge, chipping, and ball peen hammers
new files of all sizes
wire brushes from Oh Aitch 10 Brush (Hi, Tawm!)
4T portapower (when the gates warp on ya)

--
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On Sep 26, 10:28*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 05:02:36 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Rob
scrawled the following:





I am setting ups a small materials fabrication shop (metal, plastic,
wood). *My main piece of equipment will be a CNC plasma/router table.
I have an idea for other pieces of equipment but since I have a
limited budget and need to make the best decisions for equipment. My
question is what would you recommend for a basic shop setup for doing;
* *Duct work,
* *Metal art,
* *Brackets,
* *Enclosures,
* *Face plates,
* *Gates,
* *Signs.

I know that this is a long list of things and that some items will
require heavy equipment. *I am thinking that if I keep to 1/8" and
smaller I should be able to keep the equipment costs from sky
rocketing. *Any help would be appreciated.

It might help if you tell us what equipment, tools and experience you
have now.

An obvious basic list starts he

Drill press & billdrits
4" angle grinders, grinding wheels, and flap sanders
4x6" bandsaw w/ good bimetal blade
hacksaw w/ GOOD bimetal blades
small welder and decent helmet/gloves/apron/area to use them.
welding table
anvil
sledge, chipping, and ball peen hammers
new files of all sizes
wire brushes from Oh Aitch 10 Brush (Hi, Tawm!)
4T portapower (when the gates warp on ya)

Bench or pedestal grinder
1/2" hand drill, I like the Magnum Hole Shooter
Combination square
Bench vise
Drill press vise for holding small parts safely

These Harbor Freight tools might be useful to you;
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=31980
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47261

On Sep 27, 2:20*am, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:49:38 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins



wrote:
On Sep 26, 10:28*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 05:02:36 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Rob
scrawled the following:
I am setting ups a small materials fabrication shop (metal, plastic,
wood). *My main piece of equipment will be a CNC plasma/router table.
I have an idea for other pieces of equipment but since I have a
limited budget and need to make the best decisions for equipment. My
question is what would you recommend for a basic shop setup for doing;
* *Duct work,
* *Metal art,
* *Brackets,
* *Enclosures,
* *Face plates,
* *Gates,
* *Signs.

I know that this is a long list of things and that some items will
require heavy equipment. *I am thinking that if I keep to 1/8" and
smaller I should be able to keep the equipment costs from sky
rocketing. *Any help would be appreciated.

It might help if you tell us what equipment, tools and experience you
have now.

An obvious basic list starts he

Drill press & billdrits
4" angle grinders, grinding wheels, and flap sanders
4x6" bandsaw w/ good bimetal blade
hacksaw w/ GOOD bimetal blades
small welder and decent helmet/gloves/apron/area to use them.
welding table
anvil
sledge, chipping, and ball peen hammers
new files of all sizes
wire brushes from Oh Aitch 10 Brush (Hi, Tawm!)
4T portapower (when the gates warp on ya)

Bench or pedestal grinder
1/2" hand drill, I like the Magnum Hole Shooter
Combination square
Bench vise
Drill press vise for holding small parts safely

These Harbor Freight tools might be useful to you;
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=31980
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47261

* If you are going to do ductwork and sheetmetal, you will need a
shear, a box and pan brake, power slitter, crimper-beader, flanger. *A
powered Metalworker for forming "S and Drive" and Pittsburgh and
button-lock joints, standing seam joints, etc. *A spot welder for
attaching insulation retainer pins - long jaws to reach the center of
the panels. *

* Note that this gear is Not Cheap - better be serious.

* * -- Bruce --

Thank you all.
I do have a lot of the tools suggested, next week I will be picking up
my plasma cutter.
For the duct work. I don't want to compete with the pieces which you
can by at the locale hardware shops.
I want to do the items which a unique to each job. Specialty items.
What size of brake would be required? I am looking at a 50" box pan
brake with interchangeable dies.
Who would be a good source to buy some of the pieces?
This might be a strange question but are there any books available? I
have worked with metal for a while but more on a milling machine and
not sheet.

Thanks,
Rob

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 13:47:26 -0700 (PDT), Rob wrote:

Thank you all.
I do have a lot of the tools suggested, next week I will be picking up
my plasma cutter.
For the duct work. I don't want to compete with the pieces which you
can by at the locale hardware shops.
I want to do the items which a unique to each job. Specialty items.
What size of brake would be required? I am looking at a 50" box pan
brake with interchangeable dies.
Who would be a good source to buy some of the pieces?
This might be a strange question but are there any books available? I
have worked with metal for a while but more on a milling machine and
not sheet.

Thanks,
Rob

The air conditioning stuff is usually done as flat sheets with the
edges formed to lock together, like forming big bends and transitions.
Long sections of square duct are done as two L's that button-lock
together, and use S and Drive style splines to lock lengths together.

Another way to do big ducts is form rolled strip stock into
Spirolock round duct - it would look like a barber pole if painted
along the seam. Perfect for use with exposed ceilings in "industrial"
styled buildings. Can come off the machine as long as you need, but
for practical purposes you want to make the sections 8' to 12' long
for ease of handling, then flange one end and crimp the other so they
couple together.

If you do ductwork, you also need gear for handling the blanket and
semi-rigid fiberglass insulation on the inside. Round ducts are easy,
they ship the insulation pre-formed in rigid tubes to slide inside -
but you have to cut it into wedges yourself to line segmented elbows.

And remember that you can easily price yourself out of the market -
I've done a lot of AC ductwork with raw sheetmetal and hand benders,
pop rivets and "sharps" screws, only because the sheetmetal shop was
WAY too proud of their custom work. It's not a Museum Piece, even
though it may be air conditioning a museum... ;-)

-- Bruce --

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 13:47:26 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Rob
scrawled the following:

Thank you all.
I do have a lot of the tools suggested, next week I will be picking up
my plasma cutter.
For the duct work. I don't want to compete with the pieces which you
can by at the locale hardware shops.

Ducting? Add Kevlar gloves and sleeves to your MUST HAVE list.


I want to do the items which a unique to each job. Specialty items.
What size of brake would be required? I am looking at a 50" box pan
brake with interchangeable dies.
Who would be a good source to buy some of the pieces?

Since you're on a budget, look to eBay and www.grizzly.com for
machines and handtools.


This might be a strange question but are there any books available? I
have worked with metal for a while but more on a milling machine and
not sheet.

Audel put out a comprehensive sheetmetal handbook, _Sheetmetal Pattern
Work_, eons ago. See if you can find one.

I've learned a few things from authors such as Tim Remus and Ron
Fournier.

For ornamental gates, look for books on repousse'.

Google for books on the work done by the particular equipment you buy.

--
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 13:47:26 -0700 (PDT), Rob
wrote:

This might be a strange question but are there any books available?
snip
-----------------
Check with you local area community or technical college to see
what courses they offer. These can get you off to a much faster
start, and they should have text information.
http://lanecc.edu/apprenticeship/sheetmetal.htm
http://www.mhcc.edu/pages/1237.asp

Start with some Lindsay reprints. Cheap and to the point.
http://lindsaybks.com/ {ask for catalog}

see
http://lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/sheetmetal/index.html
http://lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/slip/index.html

specifically steam boilers but the layout/development is the same
http://lindsaybks.com/bks10/boilm/index.html

http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks3/airc/index.html

other books include
http://www.directtextbook.com/prices/0806490144 [be setting down
when you look at the price]
http://www.directtextbook.com/search... ype=keywords


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).