I am not sure if I am going crazy or the world around me is:

I am going around trying to price out a project: To reduce motor speed using
a pulley system by 16:1 would cost me in pulleys alone $50 using a local
supplier (2 6" and 2 1.5" pulley). I have just come back from an auction
where one could buy several drill pressess for around $40. For this I have
two step pulleys, a motor, a shaft, some bearings etc.

Since when has it become cheaper to buy an assembled piece of second-hand
equipment and cannibalize it for parts rather than buy parts alone? Come to
think of it, it would not even have to be second-hand equipment: Plenty of
cheap small drill presses for $100, i.e. a cost of 2 step-pulleys alone.
BTW a single sleeve 1/2" bearing - $5.00.

Is this an atypical observation? Is this a common phenomenon in the USA
also?

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On 2008-09-26, Michael Koblic wrote:
I am not sure if I am going crazy or the world around me is:

I am going around trying to price out a project: To reduce motor speed using
a pulley system by 16:1 would cost me in pulleys alone $50 using a local
supplier (2 6" and 2 1.5" pulley). I have just come back from an auction
where one could buy several drill pressess for around $40. For this I have
two step pulleys, a motor, a shaft, some bearings etc.

What you are paying for when you buy from local supplier, is for
capital, space, and personnel needed to store all kinds of pulleys
that are in stock. Spending $50 is a lot cheaper than driving around
and wasting days in auctions.

Auctions have their place, but usually what you find there is not what
you need immediately.

i

Since when has it become cheaper to buy an assembled piece of second-hand
equipment and cannibalize it for parts rather than buy parts alone? Come to
think of it, it would not even have to be second-hand equipment: Plenty of
cheap small drill presses for $100, i.e. a cost of 2 step-pulleys alone.
BTW a single sleeve 1/2" bearing - $5.00.

Is this an atypical observation? Is this a common phenomenon in the USA
also?


--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
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"Ignoramus23784" wrote in message
...
On 2008-09-26, Michael Koblic wrote:
I am not sure if I am going crazy or the world around me is:

I am going around trying to price out a project: To reduce motor speed
using
a pulley system by 16:1 would cost me in pulleys alone $50 using a local
supplier (2 6" and 2 1.5" pulley). I have just come back from an auction
where one could buy several drill pressess for around $40. For this I
have
two step pulleys, a motor, a shaft, some bearings etc.

What you are paying for when you buy from local supplier, is for
capital, space, and personnel needed to store all kinds of pulleys
that are in stock. Spending $50 is a lot cheaper than driving around
and wasting days in auctions.

Auctions have their place, but usually what you find there is not what
you need immediately.

i

My garage and back yard is a testament to that!

On 2008-09-26, ATP* wrote:

"Ignoramus23784" wrote in message
...
On 2008-09-26, Michael Koblic wrote:
I am not sure if I am going crazy or the world around me is:

I am going around trying to price out a project: To reduce motor speed
using
a pulley system by 16:1 would cost me in pulleys alone $50 using a local
supplier (2 6" and 2 1.5" pulley). I have just come back from an auction
where one could buy several drill pressess for around $40. For this I
have
two step pulleys, a motor, a shaft, some bearings etc.

What you are paying for when you buy from local supplier, is for
capital, space, and personnel needed to store all kinds of pulleys
that are in stock. Spending $50 is a lot cheaper than driving around
and wasting days in auctions.

Auctions have their place, but usually what you find there is not what
you need immediately.

i

My garage and back yard is a testament to that!

Mine, as well.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:32:43 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:

I am not sure if I am going crazy or the world around me is:

I am going around trying to price out a project: To reduce motor speed using
a pulley system by 16:1 would cost me in pulleys alone $50 using a local
supplier (2 6" and 2 1.5" pulley). I have just come back from an auction
where one could buy several drill pressess for around $40. For this I have
two step pulleys, a motor, a shaft, some bearings etc.

Since when has it become cheaper to buy an assembled piece of second-hand
equipment and cannibalize it for parts rather than buy parts alone? Come to
think of it, it would not even have to be second-hand equipment: Plenty of
cheap small drill presses for $100, i.e. a cost of 2 step-pulleys alone.
BTW a single sleeve 1/2" bearing - $5.00.

Is this an atypical observation? Is this a common phenomenon in the USA
also?


That's how I got my drill press. I really wanted the gears off of it
and while looking at how to go about that task I realized that this
old thing will probably work. Fixed it all up and then went back
looking for gears from another source.

Auctions have their place, but usually what you find there is not what
you need immediately.

i

My garage and back yard is a testament to that!

Mine, as well.

Just be glad you don't have a huge barn and a 100 acre back yard. Plus a kid
that learned "pack rat" from the old man.

I do buy things like old drill presses just for the motor pulleys etc. We
took enough scrap to town out of the carcasses to buy a nice milling
machine.
\

On Sep 26, 8:42*am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

"Just be glad you don't have a huge barn and a 100 acre back yard.
Plus a kid
that learned "pack rat" from the old man."

Boy do I know how that is. Barns are full of stuff and some stuff that
should be in there sits out because there is no room. Try explaining
to people that you have these huge barns and you don't have room
sometimes to work on stuff inside. I can't tell you how many junk
pieces of farm equiptment I have for parts for my "good" equiptment.
The cost of 1 or 2 parts from a dealership can sometimes pay for the
whole parts machine. I'm thankful that I have the room for them. Plus
it saves downtime if I am baling hay or planting and something breaks.
It never fails that something goes on a weekend after the dealership
closes. Jesse

You might have a motor already, and considered belts to be a good method to
reduce the speed, sometimes they are not.

You might want to consider gear reduction instead. A gearhead motor, or a
separate gear reduction box could be a better solution.
Worm gear reduction results in an output shaft that is 90 degrees from the
input shaft, and parallel gear reduction results in an output shaft 180
degrees from the input shaft.

You would need to determine how much final drive torque your project machine
will require to select a suitably rated gearbox.

If this machine is related to the earlier questions about making a smooth 5"
to 8" disk, the torque requirements shouldn't be very great, and a
fractional horsepower motor with gear reduction would probably be
sufficient.

The output of a gearbox shaft can be used as a direct-drive for the platter
with a shaft coupler, or a chain and sprockets can be utilized to change the
output shaft speed to optimum.

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html



"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...
I am not sure if I am going crazy or the world around me is:

I am going around trying to price out a project: To reduce motor speed
using a pulley system by 16:1 would cost me in pulleys alone $50 using a
local supplier (2 6" and 2 1.5" pulley). I have just come back from an
auction where one could buy several drill pressess for around $40. For
this I have two step pulleys, a motor, a shaft, some bearings etc.

Since when has it become cheaper to buy an assembled piece of second-hand
equipment and cannibalize it for parts rather than buy parts alone? Come
to think of it, it would not even have to be second-hand equipment: Plenty
of cheap small drill presses for $100, i.e. a cost of 2 step-pulleys
alone. BTW a single sleeve 1/2" bearing - $5.00.

Is this an atypical observation? Is this a common phenomenon in the USA
also?

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Michael Koblic wrote:
I am not sure if I am going crazy or the world around me is:

I am going around trying to price out a project: To reduce motor speed using
a pulley system by 16:1 would cost me in pulleys alone $50 using a local
supplier (2 6" and 2 1.5" pulley). I have just come back from an auction
where one could buy several drill pressess for around $40. For this I have
two step pulleys, a motor, a shaft, some bearings etc.

Since when has it become cheaper to buy an assembled piece of second-hand
equipment and cannibalize it for parts rather than buy parts alone? Come to
think of it, it would not even have to be second-hand equipment: Plenty of
cheap small drill presses for $100, i.e. a cost of 2 step-pulleys alone.
BTW a single sleeve 1/2" bearing - $5.00.

One thing to consider in the import DPs is the quality of the pulleys.
Many do not run as true as you might like.
I suggest you chuck each into the lathe and clean it up before using it.

Michael Koblic wrote:

Since when has it become cheaper to buy an assembled piece of second-hand
equipment and cannibalize it for parts rather than buy parts alone?
Go to your local car dealer and check the sticker price of some
particular car.
Now, go to the parts department, and tell them you want to buy that same
car as all separate parts, and assemble it yourself. You will find out
that $20,000 assembled car will cost at least $50,000 as parts.

Jon

sometimes to work on stuff inside. I can't tell you how many junk
pieces of farm equiptment I have for parts for my "good" equiptment.
The cost of 1 or 2 parts from a dealership can sometimes pay for the
whole parts machine. I'm thankful that I have the room for them. Plus
it saves downtime if I am baling hay or planting and something breaks.
It never fails that something goes on a weekend after the dealership
closes. Jesse

I think its the paint. Just try buying a part with nice new green paint on
it.
You pay through the nose. That part out back with old paint on it isn't
worth near as much.

Blue paint is even worse, cause you have to wait a week to get the wrong
part. I've got four Ford tractors. I can't remember how many times I've been
waiting on parts for two units and had to rob from one to get the other back
in the field.

Karl

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Michael Koblic wrote:

Since when has it become cheaper to buy an assembled piece of second-hand
equipment and cannibalize it for parts rather than buy parts alone?
Go to your local car dealer and check the sticker price of some particular
car.
Now, go to the parts department, and tell them you want to buy that same
car as all separate parts, and assemble it yourself. You will find out
that $20,000 assembled car will cost at least $50,000 as parts.

A fair point. However, in the case of a drill press (an example I happen to
be most familiar with) a cost of only three parts (2 step pulleys and a
1/4HP motor) exceeds the cost of the whole unit *new*. All the other parts
are a bonus. Buying it in an auction nearly new for much less would just be
an icing on the cake.

The other issue is availability: At this time I am not aware of any supplier
which carries step pulleys in Canada, let alone locally. An EBay search
threw up precisely 5 entries and not all of these were pulleys and some of
the pulleys were highly dubious.

Making parts fit the design is just not realistic. I have so far found only
one shop that carries *any* kind of pulley locally or in the next town. If
your design does not fit them, tough luck. Thus a barnful of junk and
genesis of a project on the basis on what is available seems the way to go.

There is not question that parts are more accessible in the USA, however
shipping costs can double or triple the purchase price.

I am really talking about step pulleys to illustrate a point. I am not
married to them as a solution for this particular problem. However, they are
the most available item here. Gears of any shape are rare as hen's teeth and
more expensive.

I had always thought people who cast things out of melted beer cans in their
back yard as mildly weird enthusiasts. I am not laughing any more :-)

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:11:11 -0500, the infamous Jon Elson
scrawled the following:

Michael Koblic wrote:

Since when has it become cheaper to buy an assembled piece of second-hand
equipment and cannibalize it for parts rather than buy parts alone?
Go to your local car dealer and check the sticker price of some
particular car.
Now, go to the parts department, and tell them you want to buy that same
car as all separate parts, and assemble it yourself. You will find out
that $20,000 assembled car will cost at least $50,000 as parts.

I believe it's over $100k now, Jon.

--
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:21:59 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:
SNIP
The other issue is availability: At this time I am not aware of any supplier
which carries step pulleys in Canada, let alone locally. An EBay search
threw up precisely 5 entries and not all of these were pulleys and some of
the pulleys were highly dubious.
SNIP MORE

Hey Michael,

I haven't watched this thread at all, but I did read the above.

White metal step pulleys are available lots of places. Canadian Tire,
TSC, any good motor or bearing place. The ones at CTC may well be
only 3 or 4 step, but they are there.

Heavier ones, such as Brownings, are available at any good farm or
automotive place too.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

On Sep 26, 9:21 pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
...
I am really talking about step pulleys to illustrate a point. I am not
married to them as a solution for this particular problem. However, they are
the most available item here. Gears of any shape are rare as hen's teeth and
more expensive.

I had always thought people who cast things out of melted beer cans in their
back yard as mildly weird enthusiasts. I am not laughing any more :-)

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

If you had a wood lathe you could make pulleys from glued wood bolted
between aluminum sheets. The larger driven pulley doesn't really need
a vee groove, for example my lathe has a vee pulley on the motor and a
flat one on the countershaft. http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page4.html

If you had a wood lathe you wouldn't need to because you could polish
your disks on it. The kind to look for has a face plate mount on the
left end of the spindle for turning large bowls.

A rotary sander or buffer will turn the work piece all by itself, you
don't need to drive it separately, just allow it to rotate. You
control the speed by the angle of contact.

When I ground the flat for the blade on the motorcycle tire for my
sawmill I found that it made a good rotary table. It already has an
axle with good bearings and a brake disk you could extend with
plywood, the spinning tread isn't particularly dangerous although the
spokes can be, and it has enough inertia that is doesn't speed up too
quickly if the grinder runs parallel to the rim. The bike had been in
a crash that bent the forks but didn't damage the wheel very much.

Jim Wilkins

Michael Koblic wrote:
I am not sure if I am going crazy or the world around me is:

I am going around trying to price out a project: To reduce motor speed using
a pulley system by 16:1 would cost me in pulleys alone $50 using a local
supplier (2 6" and 2 1.5" pulley). I have just come back from an auction
where one could buy several drill pressess for around $40. For this I have
two step pulleys, a motor, a shaft, some bearings etc.

Since when has it become cheaper to buy an assembled piece of second-hand
equipment and cannibalize it for parts rather than buy parts alone? Come to
think of it, it would not even have to be second-hand equipment: Plenty of
cheap small drill presses for $100, i.e. a cost of 2 step-pulleys alone.
BTW a single sleeve 1/2" bearing - $5.00.

Is this an atypical observation? Is this a common phenomenon in the USA
also?


Depending on your packaging constraints you could look at using a poly V
belt drive with a one stage reduction. Have a look at a modern washing
machine. I have used a poly V drive for a flat lap with about a 5:1
reduction and machined the motor pulley myself, the driven pulley being
a VW Golf (still Rabbit in the US?) rear drum which provided the
bearings and stubaxle to support the assembly with the lap plate being
mounted on top of the drum. The OD of the drum was machined as standard
and one benefit of poly V belts is that with reduction of over 3:1 IIRC
you don't need the larger pulley to have Vs, it can be a plain surface.
Poly V pulleys with taper lock bushes are readily available, at least in
the UK, if you can machine your own.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Wilkins"
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 5:41 AM
Subject: Economics of transmission


If you had a wood lathe you could make pulleys from glued wood bolted
between aluminum sheets. The larger driven pulley doesn't really need
a vee groove, for example my lathe has a vee pulley on the motor and a
flat one on the countershaft. http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page4.html

If you had a wood lathe you wouldn't need to because you could polish
your disks on it. The kind to look for has a face plate mount on the
left end of the spindle for turning large bowls.

A rotary sander or buffer will turn the work piece all by itself, you
don't need to drive it separately, just allow it to rotate. You
control the speed by the angle of contact.

Do I understand you right? You are sanding/polishing as you driving the
object in one operation? I wonder if that would clean up the edges, too. I
got a 3-jaw chuck which I could get to spin on something while keeping the
work in contact with a stationary disk sander. Now that would be brilliant!

Otherwise I can see how polishing could be done at 700 rpm but I was not
sure about ruing up the edges - I thought that would have to be done
somewhere around 60 rpm.


When I ground the flat for the blade on the motorcycle tire for my
sawmill I found that it made a good rotary table. It already has an
axle with good bearings and a brake disk you could extend with
plywood, the spinning tread isn't particularly dangerous although the
spokes can be, and it has enough inertia that is doesn't speed up too
quickly if the grinder runs parallel to the rim. The bike had been in
a crash that bent the forks but didn't damage the wheel very much.


Right. You mentioned that before and I had some trouble getting my mind
around it :-) I am still keeping that option open.
I am looking at some woodlathes. The Canadian Tire has one for $167, but all
the reviews suggest it is a POS.

However all of that is on hold as an opportunity has presented itself today
to look at a real lathe (see my other today's post - what to look for before
parting with cash!)

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Sep 27, 5:39*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Wilkins"

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 5:41 AM
Subject: Economics of transmission

A rotary sander or buffer will turn the work piece all by itself, you
don't need to drive it separately, just allow it to rotate. You
control the speed by the angle of contact.

Do I understand you right? You are sanding/polishing as you driving the
object in one operation?

I wonder if that would clean up the edges, too. I
got a 3-jaw chuck which I could get to spin on something while keeping the
work in contact with a stationary disk sander. Now that would be brilliant!

I was cleaning up the edge, trying to cut a flat wider than the
bandsaw blade in the unworn tread of the front tire. The grinder was
cutting crosswise at perhaps a 20 to 30 degree angle. When it cut
straight across the wheel slowed and stopped, when it ran
circumferentially the wheel sped up gradually to 80 MPH. It would be
difficult to true up a disk that was out of round with a hand-held
tool this way unless there was a tool rest, which the bandsaw frame
provided.

Otherwise I can see how polishing could be done at 700 rpm but I was not
sure about ruing up the edges - I thought that would have to be done
somewhere around 60 rpm.

However all of that is on hold as an opportunity has presented itself today
to look at a real lathe (see my other today's post - what to look for before
parting with cash!)

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

A lathe like that should let you make a large polishing turntable
pretty easily. According to my CAD drawing of water pipe, 3/4" pipe is
1.050 OD. You could turn a piece down to 1.00" to take trailer wheel
bearings, screw on a floor flange and some plywood, and have your
turntable. Pillow block bearings would be easier to mount if you can
find some. http://www.baileynet.com

I need to get busy on my lathe now. I bought a 1 ton I-beam trolley
from HF and discovered that its wheels won't fit into 3" channel iron,
so I need to turn them down a little.

Jim Wilkins