OK, lifted straight from one of our daily newspapers.......

"The superpowers image has been battered during the George Bush years.
The shambolic election in 2000 injected poison into the boastful
democracy. A proud military tradition was diminished by a disastrous
invasion of Iraq, squandering the great outpourings of global sympathy
after the September 11 attacks. America's legal heritage was debased
by prison horrors in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, while Washington's
dismal response to hurricane Katrina only served to compound opinion
polls showing global respect for Americans at near record lows."

This is the face you present to the world, this is what you are judged
on. I am sad that it is so, you are capable of so much more than this.

Andrew VK3BFA.

wrote:

"The superpowers image has been battered during the George Bush years.

Probably the earliest flyswatters were nothing more than some sort of
striking surface attached to the end of a long stick.

- Jack -

On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:36:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

OK, lifted straight from one of our daily newspapers.......

"The superpowers image has been battered during the George Bush years.
The shambolic election in 2000 injected poison into the boastful
democracy. A proud military tradition was diminished by a disastrous
invasion of Iraq, squandering the great outpourings of global sympathy
after the September 11 attacks. America's legal heritage was debased
by prison horrors in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, while Washington's
dismal response to hurricane Katrina only served to compound opinion
polls showing global respect for Americans at near record lows."

This is the face you present to the world, this is what you are judged
on. I am sad that it is so, you are capable of so much more than this.

Andrew VK3BFA.

This sort of incomplete journalism should be ignored. They completely
omitted the "awash in guns" part.

On Jul 27, 12:58 am, Don Foreman
wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:36:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
OK, lifted straight from one of our daily newspapers.......

"The superpowers image has been battered during the George Bush years.
The shambolic election in 2000 injected poison into the boastful
democracy. A proud military tradition was diminished by a disastrous
invasion of Iraq, squandering the great outpourings of global sympathy
after the September 11 attacks. America's legal heritage was debased
by prison horrors in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, while Washington's
dismal response to hurricane Katrina only served to compound opinion
polls showing global respect for Americans at near record lows."

This is the face you present to the world, this is what you are judged
on. I am sad that it is so, you are capable of so much more than this.

Andrew VK3BFA.

This sort of incomplete journalism should be ignored. They completely
omitted the "awash in guns" part.

Yep, they missed an obvious target on that one.

Andrew VK3BFA.

In article , Don Foreman wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:36:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
[drivel snipped]

Andrew VK3BFA.

This sort of incomplete journalism should be ignored.

In general, "Andrew VK3BFA" should be ignored.

No, not at all. Andrew's postings are at least, interesting.

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , Don Foreman
wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:36:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
[drivel snipped]

Andrew VK3BFA.

This sort of incomplete journalism should be ignored.

In general, "Andrew VK3BFA" should be ignored.

In article , "Wild_Bill" wrote:

[top posting corrected, and malformed sig removed]
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , Don Foreman
wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:36:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
[drivel snipped]

Andrew VK3BFA.

This sort of incomplete journalism should be ignored.

In general, "Andrew VK3BFA" should be ignored.

No, not at all. Andrew's postings are at least, interesting.

Note that the categories "interesting" and "valuable", while overlapping, are
not congruent.

Yes sir, you are correct. The header states OT, so what importance would
should anyone anticipate?

Andrew's metal-related comments are generally always interesting to read,
useful to some, and sometimes contain considerable humor.

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Wild_Bill" wrote:

[top posting corrected, and malformed sig removed]
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Don Foreman
wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:36:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
[drivel snipped]

Andrew VK3BFA.

This sort of incomplete journalism should be ignored.

In general, "Andrew VK3BFA" should be ignored.

No, not at all. Andrew's postings are at least, interesting.

Note that the categories "interesting" and "valuable", while overlapping,
are
not congruent.

wrote in message
...
OK, lifted straight from one of our daily newspapers.......

"The superpowers image has been battered during the George Bush years.
The shambolic election in 2000 injected poison into the boastful
democracy. A proud military tradition was diminished by a disastrous
invasion of Iraq, squandering the great outpourings of global sympathy
after the September 11 attacks. America's legal heritage was debased
by prison horrors in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, while Washington's
dismal response to hurricane Katrina only served to compound opinion
polls showing global respect for Americans at near record lows."

This is the face you present to the world, this is what you are judged
on. I am sad that it is so, you are capable of so much more than this.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Just one thing to keep in mind here, Andrew: We know more about it, and care
less about it, than you may think. g

We know what's going on with our country. We also know that most of the
world really doesn't, but they rub their hands with glee every time
something goes wrong here. So we take all of that with a grain of salt. It
really means almost nothing here.

Except for one thing: It's important that we be able to work cooperatively
with other major countries, especially our old allies, and we have a lot of
repair work to do with international relations after Bush is gone. That's
one reason a lot of us favor Obama, who would come in riding a wave of
adoration from around the world. But even if McCain is elected, we'll be a
lot better off.

The "outpouring of global sympathy" was a flash in the pan. We knew it at
the time; it couldn't last in the face of the resentment that inevitably
accrues to a sole superpower. We got about a month's worth of "sympathy" out
of it, but sympathy is not what was needed. What was needed was a
cooperative, overwhelming, international agreement about how to combat that
kind of terrorism, and a commensurate effort. For the most part, what the
world (and we) got was lip service and tokenism.

--
Ed Huntress

"The superpowers image has been battered during the George Bush years.
The shambolic election in 2000 injected poison into the boastful
democracy. A proud military tradition was diminished by a disastrous
invasion of Iraq, squandering the great outpourings of global sympathy
after the September 11 attacks. America's legal heritage was debased
by prison horrors in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, while Washington's
dismal response to hurricane Katrina only served to compound opinion
polls showing global respect for Americans at near record lows."

This is the face you present to the world, this is what you are judged
on. I am sad that it is so, you are capable of so much more than this.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Just one thing to keep in mind here, Andrew: We know more about it, and
care
less about it, than you may think. g

We know what's going on with our country. We also know that most of the
world really doesn't, but they rub their hands with glee every time
something goes wrong here. So we take all of that with a grain of salt. It
really means almost nothing here.

Except for one thing: It's important that we be able to work cooperatively
with other major countries, especially our old allies, and we have a lot
of
repair work to do with international relations after Bush is gone. That's
one reason a lot of us favor Obama, who would come in riding a wave of
adoration from around the world. But even if McCain is elected, we'll be a
lot better off.

The "outpouring of global sympathy" was a flash in the pan. We knew it at
the time; it couldn't last in the face of the resentment that inevitably
accrues to a sole superpower. We got about a month's worth of "sympathy"
out
of it, but sympathy is not what was needed. What was needed was a
cooperative, overwhelming, international agreement about how to combat
that
kind of terrorism, and a commensurate effort. For the most part, what the
world (and we) got was lip service and tokenism.

--
Ed Huntress


This is a case where actions have consequences. Except for a few countries
the US is pretty much hated around the world. This opinion didn't just
happen in a vacuum. We made a lot of moves all over the world and most of
the world took exception to our actions. Now we have to live with what we
did. We can ignore the rest of the world and thumb our noses and say they
don't matter but as we have learned we are part of the world community. When
we act like overly aggressive assholes we are not going to be popular.
Nobody likes us anymore. Can we change that? Sure, but we have to change. If
we get another republican president don't expect much to change except for
things to get worse. After all, continuing policies that have failed in the
past is likely to bring the same outcomes. The nation is at a crossroads
here. Either we take the fork in the road and go another direction or we
stay on the course we've been following for eight years. I can't imagine how
much worse it'll be with another term with an old republican in charge. I
hope I don't have to witness how bad it'll be.

Hawke

Heck, for the 50 years of Democrat rule it was the same thing.
Have and have not. Some hate, some are jealous and some are including us
in a 2000 year old war.

We can blame the Democrats for the One world attitude and all of this hugy
stuff. It just doesn't work when we can't work and make money after giving
our jobs away overseas and then at home as well.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Hawke wrote:
"The superpowers image has been battered during the George Bush years.
The shambolic election in 2000 injected poison into the boastful
democracy. A proud military tradition was diminished by a disastrous
invasion of Iraq, squandering the great outpourings of global sympathy
after the September 11 attacks. America's legal heritage was debased
by prison horrors in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, while Washington's
dismal response to hurricane Katrina only served to compound opinion
polls showing global respect for Americans at near record lows."

This is the face you present to the world, this is what you are judged
on. I am sad that it is so, you are capable of so much more than this.

Andrew VK3BFA.
Just one thing to keep in mind here, Andrew: We know more about it, and
care
less about it, than you may think. g

We know what's going on with our country. We also know that most of the
world really doesn't, but they rub their hands with glee every time
something goes wrong here. So we take all of that with a grain of salt. It
really means almost nothing here.

Except for one thing: It's important that we be able to work cooperatively
with other major countries, especially our old allies, and we have a lot
of
repair work to do with international relations after Bush is gone. That's
one reason a lot of us favor Obama, who would come in riding a wave of
adoration from around the world. But even if McCain is elected, we'll be a
lot better off.

The "outpouring of global sympathy" was a flash in the pan. We knew it at
the time; it couldn't last in the face of the resentment that inevitably
accrues to a sole superpower. We got about a month's worth of "sympathy"
out
of it, but sympathy is not what was needed. What was needed was a
cooperative, overwhelming, international agreement about how to combat
that
kind of terrorism, and a commensurate effort. For the most part, what the
world (and we) got was lip service and tokenism.

--
Ed Huntress


This is a case where actions have consequences. Except for a few countries
the US is pretty much hated around the world. This opinion didn't just
happen in a vacuum. We made a lot of moves all over the world and most of
the world took exception to our actions. Now we have to live with what we
did. We can ignore the rest of the world and thumb our noses and say they
don't matter but as we have learned we are part of the world community. When
we act like overly aggressive assholes we are not going to be popular.
Nobody likes us anymore. Can we change that? Sure, but we have to change. If
we get another republican president don't expect much to change except for
things to get worse. After all, continuing policies that have failed in the
past is likely to bring the same outcomes. The nation is at a crossroads
here. Either we take the fork in the road and go another direction or we
stay on the course we've been following for eight years. I can't imagine how
much worse it'll be with another term with an old republican in charge. I
hope I don't have to witness how bad it'll be.

Hawke




----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

wrote:

"The superpowers image has been battered during the George Bush years.
The shambolic election in 2000 injected poison into the boastful
democracy. A proud military tradition was diminished by a disastrous
invasion of Iraq, squandering the great outpourings of global sympathy
after the September 11 attacks. America's legal heritage was debased
by prison horrors in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, while Washington's
dismal response to hurricane Katrina only served to compound opinion
polls showing global respect for Americans at near record lows."

This is the face you present to the world, this is what you are judged
on. I am sad that it is so, you are capable of so much more than this.


Andrew, some of us really don't care too much about how we are viewed. We have a history
of stepping up when times need our help. Not sure how much longer we can afford it
though. Iraq may be our last hurrah. We do what we think is right.

Family reunion last Saturday. Aunt Peg was there, Uncle Glen was there. He met her in
your country during WWII when he flew bombers. War bride. Our gain, your loss. I have
lots of cousins one generation removed from England.

We do what we think is right. Some disagree but it is our treasure and lives we spill.

We are not the superpower of yesterday. We can barely handle Iraq and Afghanistan.
Meanwhile people die in Darfur because we don't have the resources to protect them and it
looks like Europe hasn't stepped up to fill the void.

Give us a few more years and we will be stuck at home, not meddling in the worlds affairs
as the rest of the world deals with China and Putins's Russia. Not to mention the Muslim
issues.

Personally, I think the US should go isolationist on military policy. Stay at home and
train and let the rest of the world take up being the arsenal of democracy. We, the US
are chumps for picking up the cost of Western Defense.

Best regards,

Wes

USMC 1975-79

On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:36:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

OK, lifted straight from one of our daily newspapers.......

"The superpowers image has been battered during the George Bush years.
The shambolic election in 2000 injected poison into the boastful
democracy. A proud military tradition was diminished by a disastrous
invasion of Iraq, squandering the great outpourings of global sympathy
after the September 11 attacks. America's legal heritage was debased
by prison horrors in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, while Washington's
dismal response to hurricane Katrina only served to compound opinion
polls showing global respect for Americans at near record lows."

This is the face you present to the world, this is what you are judged
on. I am sad that it is so, you are capable of so much more than this.

Andrew VK3BFA.


Sorry Andrew..that is the description that some hack put down on
paper.
Its loaded with lies, half truths and propaganda.

Mores the pity that the editors simply didnt take this hack out back
and beat him to within an inch of his life for such dreck

Gunner

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:10:04
-0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:36:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

OK, lifted straight from one of our daily newspapers.......

"The superpowers image has been battered during the George Bush years.
The shambolic election in 2000 injected poison into the boastful
democracy. A proud military tradition was diminished by a disastrous
invasion of Iraq, squandering the great outpourings of global sympathy
after the September 11 attacks. America's legal heritage was debased
by prison horrors in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, while Washington's
dismal response to hurricane Katrina only served to compound opinion
polls showing global respect for Americans at near record lows."

This is the face you present to the world, this is what you are judged
on. I am sad that it is so, you are capable of so much more than this.

Andrew VK3BFA.


Sorry Andrew..that is the description that some hack put down on
paper.
Its loaded with lies, half truths and propaganda.

Mores the pity that the editors simply didnt take this hack out back
and beat him to within an inch of his life for such dreck

Why would they do that? (The editors?) They believe what was
written to be the truth. Or if not completely the truth, then at
least accurate statement full of truthyness.
Sort of like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Accurate, and
"truthy" too.


tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:10:04
-0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:36:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

OK, lifted straight from one of our daily newspapers.......

"The superpowers image has been battered during the George Bush years.
The shambolic election in 2000 injected poison into the boastful
democracy. A proud military tradition was diminished by a disastrous
invasion of Iraq, squandering the great outpourings of global sympathy
after the September 11 attacks. America's legal heritage was debased
by prison horrors in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, while Washington's
dismal response to hurricane Katrina only served to compound opinion
polls showing global respect for Americans at near record lows."

This is the face you present to the world, this is what you are judged
on. I am sad that it is so, you are capable of so much more than this.

Andrew VK3BFA.


Sorry Andrew..that is the description that some hack put down on
paper.
Its loaded with lies, half truths and propaganda.

Mores the pity that the editors simply didnt take this hack out back
and beat him to within an inch of his life for such dreck

Why would they do that? (The editors?) They believe what was
written to be the truth. Or if not completely the truth, then at
least accurate statement full of truthyness.
Sort of like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Accurate, and
"truthy" too.

What he said was that this is the image of America that's become common
around the world. And he's quite right. He didn't say the image is correct.

--
Ed Huntress

On Aug 2, 8:18 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message

...



I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:10:04
-0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:36:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

OK, lifted straight from one of our daily newspapers.......

"The superpowers image has been battered during the George Bush years.
The shambolic election in 2000 injected poison into the boastful
democracy. A proud military tradition was diminished by a disastrous
invasion of Iraq, squandering the great outpourings of global sympathy
after the September 11 attacks. America's legal heritage was debased
by prison horrors in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, while Washington's
dismal response to hurricane Katrina only served to compound opinion
polls showing global respect for Americans at near record lows."

This is the face you present to the world, this is what you are judged
on. I am sad that it is so, you are capable of so much more than this.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Sorry Andrew..that is the description that some hack put down on
paper.
Its loaded with lies, half truths and propaganda.

Mores the pity that the editors simply didnt take this hack out back
and beat him to within an inch of his life for such dreck

Why would they do that? (The editors?) They believe what was
written to be the truth. Or if not completely the truth, then at
least accurate statement full of truthyness.
Sort of like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Accurate, and
"truthy" too.

What he said was that this is the image of America that's become common
around the world. And he's quite right. He didn't say the image is correct.

--
Ed Huntress

Its stirred debate, thats all it was meant to do. Alas, it is the view
of a lot of the world - and it negates the very real good things you
Yanks have done, are doing, and will hopefully continue to do. I am
sympathetic to you Yanks - on a personal level, you are mostly kind,
good hearted and generous, as evidenced by the fantastic responses I
have received here to my newby metalworking questions. The Yanks I
personally know are nice people - but you soon learn what topics to
stay clear of, and that they tend to be very black and white in their
views - no shades of grey, and thats probably because we are more
attuned to the English/European mindset that you people. And yes, I
crack it sometimes and mouth off at what I perceive to be ridiculous
political statements here - maybe thats mutual as the written word is
frequently inadequate to convey meaning - theres a cultural subtext
that goes both ways. And it may be that subtext that has the world
throwing up its hands in horror at what you guys get up to sometimes
hi hi...

And I only got a high school education, and wish I could write better.

And lets face it folks, - sometimes, you just feel like throwing the
pork chop into the Synagogue , just to see what happens......we know
we shouldn't do it, but sometimes, the sheer temptation is
irresistible....like Wet Paint signs...and tell me that some people
here don't deliberately start a controversy for the sheer hell of
it...

Regards,

Andrew VK3BFA.

wrote:
On Aug 2, 8:18 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message

. ..




I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:10:04
-0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:36:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

OK, lifted straight from one of our daily newspapers.......

"The superpowers image has been battered during the George Bush years.
The shambolic election in 2000 injected poison into the boastful
democracy. A proud military tradition was diminished by a disastrous
invasion of Iraq, squandering the great outpourings of global sympathy
after the September 11 attacks. America's legal heritage was debased
by prison horrors in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, while Washington's
dismal response to hurricane Katrina only served to compound opinion
polls showing global respect for Americans at near record lows."

This is the face you present to the world, this is what you are judged
on. I am sad that it is so, you are capable of so much more than this.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Sorry Andrew..that is the description that some hack put down on
paper.
Its loaded with lies, half truths and propaganda.

Mores the pity that the editors simply didnt take this hack out back
and beat him to within an inch of his life for such dreck

Why would they do that? (The editors?) They believe what was
written to be the truth. Or if not completely the truth, then at
least accurate statement full of truthyness.
Sort of like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Accurate, and
"truthy" too.

What he said was that this is the image of America that's become common
around the world. And he's quite right. He didn't say the image is correct.

--
Ed Huntress


Its stirred debate, thats all it was meant to do. Alas, it is the view
of a lot of the world - and it negates the very real good things you
Yanks have done, are doing, and will hopefully continue to do. I am
sympathetic to you Yanks - on a personal level, you are mostly kind,
good hearted and generous, as evidenced by the fantastic responses I
have received here to my newby metalworking questions. The Yanks I
personally know are nice people - but you soon learn what topics to
stay clear of, and that they tend to be very black and white in their
views - no shades of grey, and thats probably because we are more
attuned to the English/European mindset that you people. And yes, I
crack it sometimes and mouth off at what I perceive to be ridiculous
political statements here - maybe thats mutual as the written word is
frequently inadequate to convey meaning - theres a cultural subtext
that goes both ways. And it may be that subtext that has the world
throwing up its hands in horror at what you guys get up to sometimes
hi hi...

And I only got a high school education, and wish I could write better.

And lets face it folks, - sometimes, you just feel like throwing the
pork chop into the Synagogue , just to see what happens......we know
we shouldn't do it, but sometimes, the sheer temptation is
irresistible....like Wet Paint signs...and tell me that some people
here don't deliberately start a controversy for the sheer hell of
it...

Regards,

Andrew VK3BFA.


Nice post, Andrew.
Only one small pork chop to toss back in a cultural sense...

Those of us South of the Mason-Dixon line often don't take kindly to the
term "Yanks" as it still leaves a bad taste in the mouth from our little
"War of Nawthern Agression".

FWIW...


--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

OK, lifted straight from one of our daily newspapers.......

"The superpowers image has been battered during the George Bush years.
The shambolic election in 2000 injected poison into the boastful
democracy. A proud military tradition was diminished by a disastrous
invasion of Iraq, squandering the great outpourings of global sympathy
after the September 11 attacks. America's legal heritage was debased
by prison horrors in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, while Washington's
dismal response to hurricane Katrina only served to compound opinion
polls showing global respect for Americans at near record lows."

This is the face you present to the world, this is what you are judged
on. I am sad that it is so, you are capable of so much more than this.

Andrew VK3BFA.


Sorry Andrew..that is the description that some hack put down on
paper.
Its loaded with lies, half truths and propaganda.

Mores the pity that the editors simply didnt take this hack out back
and beat him to within an inch of his life for such dreck

Why would they do that? (The editors?) They believe what was
written to be the truth. Or if not completely the truth, then at
least accurate statement full of truthyness.
Sort of like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Accurate, and
"truthy" too.

What he said was that this is the image of America that's become common
around the world. And he's quite right. He didn't say the image is
correct.

--
Ed Huntress

What's correct? People often see the same things completely differently. As
I see it the problem is that lots of Americans have this attitude that we're
always right and no matter what we do it is justified. What makes it worse
is that it is always us who is in someone else's country, shall we say,
"doing things" and it's never a case of anyone doing things in our country.
Because of that the rest of the world sees us as butt-in-skis. We always
think we are doing the right thing. So you get two sides. Our side sees us
as the good guys in white hats and the rest of the world sees us as over
aggressive assholes. One of the sides is more right than the other. One side
has a lot more people on it than the other. So who is right? Us or them? It
used to be we were in the right almost all the time. Now I think they are
the ones who are right more often than we are. I just look at it like I was
in their shoes and I can say if I was them I would hate us. So I can't blame
them for thinking that.

Hawke