I just bought a ~1918 Wade 8A precision toolmakers lathe, and it uses
a Wade #8 collet, which is identical to a 5C collet except for a
slightly longer length and a different (stronger) buttress thread.
They are quite similar, but the Wade collets sell for 50+ dollars
each, whereas good 5C collets can be had for just a few dollars a
collet in complete sets. All I need is a new drawtube and handwheel
assembly, since the lathe already has a spindle nose with the
appropriate taper. Does anybody know a source for premade 5C
drawtubes that can be cut down to size and fitted with a handwheel?

On Jul 3, 2:43*am, woodworker88 wrote:
...Does anybody know a source for premade 5C
drawtubes that can be cut down to size and fitted with a handwheel?

A longer drawtube can be adapted without cutting it with a shaft
collar, roller thrust bearing and shop-made conical centering
adapter.

The one I adapted measures 1.365" OD but a split 1-3/8" collar fits
fine and has never slipped. The thrust bearing cost about $5.
Originally it had plain brass thrust washers and worked reasonably
well if I didn't take heavy cuts.

Here is another version:
http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTools/collet_closer/

If you do this to a used drawtube you can remachine either end if it
wears out or breaks.

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:43:06 -0700 (PDT), woodworker88
wrote:

I just bought a ~1918 Wade 8A precision toolmakers lathe, and it uses
a Wade #8 collet, which is identical to a 5C collet except for a
slightly longer length and a different (stronger) buttress thread.
They are quite similar, but the Wade collets sell for 50+ dollars
each, whereas good 5C collets can be had for just a few dollars a
collet in complete sets. All I need is a new drawtube and handwheel
assembly, since the lathe already has a spindle nose with the
appropriate taper. Does anybody know a source for premade 5C
drawtubes that can be cut down to size and fitted with a handwheel?


Check with your local used machine tool dealers, they often have
broken collet closers and bits and pieces.

On Jul 3, 5:24 am, Gunner wrote:

Check with your local used machine tool dealers, they often have
broken collet closers and bits and pieces.

Alright, sounds good.

I don't have a problem with building the handwheel assembly, I just
don't want to do the ID threading on the collet drawtube itself.
Looks like I should be able to find a used or broken part that I can
adapt.

On Jul 4, 12:42*pm, woodworker88 wrote:

I don't have a problem with building the handwheel assembly, I just
don't want to do the ID threading on the collet drawtube itself.
Looks like I should be able to find a used or broken part that I can
adapt.

It's an easy thread to cut, 1-1/4" - 20. The opening is large enough
to see inside which helps a lot.

The actual size may be slightly under 1.250 but you can keep cutting
until all of your collets fit. Several of mine measured 1.235 to
1.243.

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:42:55 -0700 (PDT), woodworker88
wrote:

On Jul 3, 5:24 am, Gunner wrote:

Check with your local used machine tool dealers, they often have
broken collet closers and bits and pieces.

Alright, sounds good.

I don't have a problem with building the handwheel assembly, I just
don't want to do the ID threading on the collet drawtube itself.
Looks like I should be able to find a used or broken part that I can
adapt.


single point threading of the draw tube oddly enough, doesnt seem to
give as good a fit as does a tap for draw tubes, which I always found
really odd, being thin wall tubing. Most draw tubes are tapped.

shrug

gunner, who has modified old draw tubes for many machines




"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the
name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program
until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it
happened." -- Norman Thomas, American socialist

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:45:34 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:42:55 -0700 (PDT), woodworker88
wrote:

On Jul 3, 5:24 am, Gunner wrote:

Check with your local used machine tool dealers, they often have
broken collet closers and bits and pieces.

Alright, sounds good.

I don't have a problem with building the handwheel assembly, I just
don't want to do the ID threading on the collet drawtube itself.
Looks like I should be able to find a used or broken part that I can
adapt.


single point threading of the draw tube oddly enough, doesnt seem to
give as good a fit as does a tap for draw tubes, which I always found
really odd, being thin wall tubing. Most draw tubes are tapped.

shrug

gunner, who has modified old draw tubes for many machines




"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the
name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program
until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it
happened." -- Norman Thomas, American socialist

I single pointed mine, not knowing any better (first lathe project).
Anyway, it works. I did have a hard time getting a good finish on the
4140 tube, but eventually did by taking light cuts. You can still see
it at the following.
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...oj-5CParts.JPG

I later replaced the adapter with one from Royal.

Pete Keillor

On 2008-07-04, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:42:55 -0700 (PDT), woodworker88
wrote:

On Jul 3, 5:24 am, Gunner wrote:

[ ... ]

I don't have a problem with building the handwheel assembly, I just
don't want to do the ID threading on the collet drawtube itself.
Looks like I should be able to find a used or broken part that I can
adapt.

[ ... ]

single point threading of the draw tube oddly enough, doesnt seem to
give as good a fit as does a tap for draw tubes, which I always found
really odd, being thin wall tubing. Most draw tubes are tapped.

A 6-jaw chuck will give less distortion of the drawtube during
threading, and if you've got a large enough collet (unlikely, since you
are trying to make a drawtube to fit collets to your lathe, and the
drawtube is always larger then the maximum collet capacity. :-)

I've not cut threads in the drawtube itself, but I have cut both
male and female threads in an extension to a drawtube when I went from
2-1/4x8 spindle nose to L-00 (needed about a 1" extension for that. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Jul 5, 7:14 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-07-04, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:42:55 -0700 (PDT), woodworker88
wrote:

On Jul 3, 5:24 am, Gunner wrote:

[ ... ]

I don't have a problem with building thehandwheelassembly, I just
don't want to do the ID threading on the collet drawtube itself.
Looks like I should be able to find a used or broken part that I can
adapt.

[ ... ]

single point threading of the draw tube oddly enough, doesnt seem to
give as good a fit as does a tap for draw tubes, which I always found
really odd, being thin wall tubing. Most draw tubes are tapped.

A 6-jaw chuck will give less distortion of the drawtube during
threading, and if you've got a large enough collet (unlikely, since you
are trying to make a drawtube to fit collets to your lathe, and the
drawtube is always larger then the maximum collet capacity. :-)

I've not cut threads in the drawtube itself, but I have cut both
male and female threads in an extension to a drawtube when I went from
2-1/4x8 spindle nose to L-00 (needed about a 1" extension for that. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.
Sounds good to me. It just so happens that there is a 8" 6-jaw chuck
on the Colchester 15" lathe at work. Our tooling cabinet has a good
selection of really large taps, so maybe there is a 1 1/4"-20. I
believe the spec for the thread is more complicated than that (I
always see it called out as some decimal diameter) but perhaps
something will work. I can compare the thread to a new Hardinge
collet.
Thanks for the advice

On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 09:13:29 -0700 (PDT), woodworker88
wrote:

Sounds good to me. It just so happens that there is a 8" 6-jaw chuck
on the Colchester 15" lathe at work. Our tooling cabinet has a good
selection of really large taps, so maybe there is a 1 1/4"-20. I
believe the spec for the thread is more complicated than that (I
always see it called out as some decimal diameter) but perhaps
something will work. I can compare the thread to a new Hardinge
collet.

Hardinge specs the thread as 1.238-20 in the "Total Workholding"
catalog. You may find the relevant section here...
http://www.hardinge.com/?pageId=141

--
Ned Simmons

On Jul 6, 10:14 am, Ned Simmons wrote:

Hardinge specs the thread as 1.238-20 in the "Total Workholding"
catalog. You may find the relevant section here...http://www.hardinge.com/?pageId=141


Yeah, I thought it was something like that.

On Jul 7, 11:42 pm, woodworker88 wrote:
On Jul 6, 10:14 am, Ned Simmons wrote:

Hardinge specs the thread as 1.238-20 in the "Total Workholding"
catalog. You may find the relevant section here...http://www.hardinge.com/?pageId=141

Yeah, I thought it was something like that.

The thread OD on my collets measures from 1.220 - 1.230 for Enco to
~1.243 for R-S-B. I made a collet nut for an S&D drill grinding
fixture that fits closely on a 1.240 thread. Some of the R-S-B collets
are too tight for it.

How would you measure an inside thread to cut it to 1.238"? Cutting
out a fixed distance from the ID only works if the tip geometry is
correct and your lathe isn't worn. The spreadsheet gearbox chart I
made for my old South Bend gives the 29 degree infeed and tip width
based on Machinery's Handbook thread data but in practice the last few
thousandths are cut-and-try, mainly because I don't regrind the tip
for each pitch, especially the internal threading bit. It's about
right for 32TPI so it makes coarser pitches undersize if I zero the
compound on the blank's surface. If I understand the book correctly,
the flat should be 0.00625" wide for an internal 20TPI UN thread.

This is why I suggested using your largest collet thread as a GO
gauge.

Jim Wilkins

On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 05:04:33 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:


The thread OD on my collets measures from 1.220 - 1.230 for Enco to
~1.243 for R-S-B. I made a collet nut for an S&D drill grinding
fixture that fits closely on a 1.240 thread. Some of the R-S-B collets
are too tight for it.

Don't confuse the thread's nominal size with its major diameter. The
major diameter is generally a bit below the nominal with a pretty
generous tolerance. For example, the major diameter of a 1.250-20
UN-2A is 1.2486/1.2405.

Ned Simmons

--
Ned Simmons

On 2008-07-09, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Jul 7, 11:42 pm, woodworker88 wrote:
On Jul 6, 10:14 am, Ned Simmons wrote:

Hardinge specs the thread as 1.238-20 in the "Total Workholding"
catalog. You may find the relevant section here...http://www.hardinge.com/?pageId=141

Yeah, I thought it was something like that.

The thread OD on my collets measures from 1.220 - 1.230 for Enco to
~1.243 for R-S-B. I made a collet nut for an S&D drill grinding
fixture that fits closely on a 1.240 thread. Some of the R-S-B collets
are too tight for it.

How would you measure an inside thread to cut it to 1.238"?

Well ... pitch diameter is what matters, and there is a way to
measure pitch diameters on internal threads somewhat akin to the
three-wire method for external threads.

You have a spring wound of an appropriate wire gauge for
measuring the pitch involved, and wound to 20 TPI -- but a little over
diameter.

You then bend the ends to form a pinch point outside the coil at
one end which will cause the diameter of the coil to reduce, so you can
put it in the thread to be measured.

Then, you measure the ID of the coil --- probably with something
like a tri-mike or something else which can let the spring wire pass
out between measuring arms.

You use the same math used with three-wire outside thread
measuring to determine how small the hole should be, and from that and
your actual measurements you can calculate the actual pitch diameter.

Cutting
out a fixed distance from the ID only works if the tip geometry is
correct and your lathe isn't worn. The spreadsheet gearbox chart I
made for my old South Bend gives the 29 degree infeed and tip width
based on Machinery's Handbook thread data but in practice the last few
thousandths are cut-and-try, mainly because I don't regrind the tip
for each pitch, especially the internal threading bit.

Here is where carbide insert tooling can help you. There are
inserts available to cut precise form threads, as well as the more
general sharp V ones. You don't have enough stress on a drawbar to need
to avoid sharp V bottomed threads, so you can calculate the infeed for
the sharp-V threads (straight or angled as you prefer). Note that the
angled infeed should be reversed for internal threads -- that is the
crank end of the compound towards the headstock instead of the
tailstock, but still the 29 (or 29.5) degrees for standard US and
metric threads, or half of 55 degrees for Whitworth threads. BTW -- the
drawbar and collet for WW and D sized collets use a buttress thread
instead of a standard V thread, so the infeed angle for those has to be
separately determined.

It's about
right for 32TPI so it makes coarser pitches undersize if I zero the
compound on the blank's surface. If I understand the book correctly,
the flat should be 0.00625" wide for an internal 20TPI UN thread.

This is why I suggested using your largest collet thread as a GO
gauge.

That is good advice anyway -- that is using the largest *thread*
OD, not the largest collet capacity. And if you have things like 3-jaw
and 4-jaw chucks mounted on collet shanks, check those as well. My
largest is a 3-jaw chuck which I got *after* I made the drawbar
extension for my drawbar when converting form 2-1/4x8 threaded spindle
nose to L-00 nose.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Jul 9, 10:19*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

* * * * That is good advice anyway -- that is using the largest *thread*
OD, not the largest collet capacity. *And if you have things like 3-jaw
and 4-jaw chucks mounted on collet shanks, check those as well. *

1.225 for a Chinese 3-jaw, 1.233 for a Sherline.