I'm trying to wire a Freightliner to operate the tarp motor.

The diagram I was given, suggests the machinist who provided
it, is not or should not be looking to quit his day job

jpg of his sketch has been ul-ed to the dropbox @ 1Schem.jpg

Switch I was directed to purchase, will switch polarity, but
will not carry the load.

Relays are starter solenoids.

Thanks

gary

I'm trying to wire a Freightliner to operate the tarp motor.

The diagram I was given, suggests the machinist who provided
it, is not or should not be looking to quit his day job

jpg of his sketch has been ul-ed to the dropbox @ 1Schem.jpg

Switch I was directed to purchase, will switch polarity, but
will not carry the load.

Relays are starter solenoids.

Thanks

gary
Pix didn't seem to make it.... did you follow the "rules" about having
a text file also???
Ken.

"Ken Sterling" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to wire a Freightliner to operate the tarp motor.

The diagram I was given, suggests the machinist who provided
it, is not or should not be looking to quit his day job


here's the link
http://metalworking.com/Dropbox/1Schem.jpg

This is just a concept not an electrical drawing. I'll let the electical
wizards on this group help you out.

karl

On Thu, 01 May 2008 19:05:20 -0600, wrote:

I'm trying to wire a Freightliner to operate the tarp motor.

The diagram I was given, suggests the machinist who provided
it, is not or should not be looking to quit his day job

jpg of his sketch has been ul-ed to the dropbox @ 1Schem.jpg

Switch I was directed to purchase, will switch polarity, but
will not carry the load.

Relays are starter solenoids.

Thanks

gary

If you use starter solenoids, you'll need four of them if you want it
to run in both directions. The switch can be a SPDT center off or
DPDT center off toggle switch. The solenoids would be arranged in an
H with top of the H going to + battery and bottom of H going to
ground or - battery with the motor being the crossbar of the H.

-----------
| |
S1 S3
|--M--|
S4 S2
| |
-----------

The switch would then energize diagonally opposed pairs of solenoids
S1 and S2 or S3 and S4, one set for up and the other set for down.

Don Foreman wrote:

On Thu, 01 May 2008 19:05:20 -0600, wrote:


I'm trying to wire a Freightliner to operate the tarp motor.

The diagram I was given, suggests the machinist who provided
it, is not or should not be looking to quit his day job

jpg of his sketch has been ul-ed to the dropbox @ 1Schem.jpg

Switch I was directed to purchase, will switch polarity, but
will not carry the load.

Relays are starter solenoids.

Thanks

gary


If you use starter solenoids, you'll need four of them if you want it
to run in both directions. The switch can be a SPDT center off or
DPDT center off toggle switch. The solenoids would be arranged in an
H with top of the H going to + battery and bottom of H going to
ground or - battery with the motor being the crossbar of the H.

-----------
| |
S1 S3
|--M--|
S4 S2
| |
-----------

The switch would then energize diagonally opposed pairs of solenoids
S1 and S2 or S3 and S4, one set for up and the other set for down.

Yup. My thoughts exactly.

http://metalworking.com/dropbox/tarp.txt
http://metalworking.com/dropbox/tarp.JPG

On the right side you see a three position switch.
Select 'Tarp On' and the motor drives the tarp over the load.
The limit switch stops the motor when the tarp is in place.
Select 'Tarp Off' and the motor removes the tarp from the load.
The other limit switch stops the motor when the tarp is off.

No provision is made to allow for a jam other than the fuse
blowing.

No liability is accepted for use of any part of this circuit.

Have Fun!

--Winston

I do not mean to rain on anyones parade. But, there is a
potential problem using single pole starter relays in this
circuit.

If the relays with suppression diodes drop out slower than
they pull in, you could have an overlap situation where both
k1 and k2 for instance are closed at the same time.

This could cause a very high current pulse which would blow
the fuse and could weld the contacts on the relays.

This would only happen if someone were to flip the control
switch quickly from cover on to cover off or vice versa
without a pause in the center off position.

The easiest way around this would be to use a switch that
forces you to release pressure on the lever while in the
center off position before it will allow you to proceed to
the other position.

Such switches are made. Unfortunately, I don't remember who
makes them or who sells them.

The timing of the particular relays that you use may not
present this problem. But, it is something to check before
turning the system over to the user.

Ron

Good Catch!

Carl Boyd

"Ron" wrote in message
...

I do not mean to rain on anyones parade. But, there is a potential problem
using single pole starter relays in this circuit.

If the relays with suppression diodes drop out slower than they pull in,
you could have an overlap situation where both k1 and k2 for instance are
closed at the same time.

This could cause a very high current pulse which would blow the fuse and
could weld the contacts on the relays.

This would only happen if someone were to flip the control switch quickly
from cover on to cover off or vice versa without a pause in the center off
position.

The easiest way around this would be to use a switch that forces you to
release pressure on the lever while in the center off position before it
will allow you to proceed to the other position.

Such switches are made. Unfortunately, I don't remember who makes them or
who sells them.

The timing of the particular relays that you use may not present this
problem. But, it is something to check before turning the system over to
the user.

Ron

Carl Boyd wrote:

Good Catch!

Carl Boyd

"Ron" wrote in message
...

I do not mean to rain on anyones parade. But, there is a potential problem
using single pole starter relays in this circuit.

If the relays with suppression diodes drop out slower than they pull in,
you could have an overlap situation where both k1 and k2 for instance are
closed at the same time.

This could cause a very high current pulse which would blow the fuse and
could weld the contacts on the relays.

This would only happen if someone were to flip the control switch quickly
from cover on to cover off or vice versa without a pause in the center off
position.

The easiest way around this would be to use a switch that forces you to
release pressure on the lever while in the center off position before it
will allow you to proceed to the other position.

Such switches are made. Unfortunately, I don't remember who makes them or
who sells them.

The timing of the particular relays that you use may not present this
problem. But, it is something to check before turning the system over to
the user.

Ron

Just use one of the remote solenoid upgrade kits that are sold by winch
manufacturers such as Warn, Ramsey, SuperWinch, etc. as upgrades for the
base model winches that come with local switches. Fast, simple, compact
and designed and tested for the application.

I have a power winch on my boat trailer that has power in both
directions and no solenoids or relays. It's done in the switch. Seems
that's all we need here, but my browser is being a real PIA
#(*&&%$$^&*& ARG!! So I can't find one.
Anyway, Fulton winches have power in both directions. Not all power
winches do. Maybe just a switch from them and your done.

"Dan " Dan@ wrote in message ...
I have a power winch on my boat trailer that has power in both
directions and no solenoids or relays. It's done in the switch. Seems
that's all we need here, but my browser is being a real PIA
#(*&&%$$^&*& ARG!! So I can't find one.
Anyway, Fulton winches have power in both directions. Not all power
winches do. Maybe just a switch from them and your done.

This is what my Warn winch uses to operate both directions without solenoids
or relays.
http://warn.iwebcat.com/_Members/lookups/partdetail.asp
Steve

Hey Steve, for some reason that link isn't working.


On Fri, 2 May 2008 07:49:13 -0500, "Up North"
wrote:


"Dan " Dan@ wrote in message ...
I have a power winch on my boat trailer that has power in both
directions and no solenoids or relays. It's done in the switch. Seems
that's all we need here, but my browser is being a real PIA
#(*&&%$$^&*& ARG!! So I can't find one.
Anyway, Fulton winches have power in both directions. Not all power
winches do. Maybe just a switch from them and your done.

This is what my Warn winch uses to operate both directions without solenoids
or relays.
http://warn.iwebcat.com/_Members/lookups/partdetail.asp
Steve

Dan wrote:

Hey Steve, for some reason that link isn't working.

On Fri, 2 May 2008 07:49:13 -0500, "Up North"
wrote:


"Dan " Dan@ wrote in message ...
I have a power winch on my boat trailer that has power in both
directions and no solenoids or relays. It's done in the switch. Seems
that's all we need here, but my browser is being a real PIA
#(*&&%$$^&*& ARG!! So I can't find one.
Anyway, Fulton winches have power in both directions. Not all power
winches do. Maybe just a switch from them and your done.

This is what my Warn winch uses to operate both directions without solenoids
or relays.
http://warn.iwebcat.com/_Members/lookups/partdetail.asp
Steve



That's because the .asp in the link is depending on cookies / session
information from the original part search.

On Fri, 02 May 2008 06:42:53 +0000, Winston wrote:
Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 01 May 2008 19:05:20 -0600, gary556@... wrote:
I'm trying to wire a Freightliner to operate the tarp motor.
....
If you use starter solenoids, you'll need four of them if you want it
to run in both directions. The switch can be a SPDT center off or DPDT
center off toggle switch. The solenoids would be arranged in an H
with top of the H going to + battery and bottom of H going to ground or
- battery with the motor being the crossbar of the H.

-----------
| |
S1 S3
|--M--|
S4 S2
| |
-----------

The switch would then energize diagonally opposed pairs of solenoids S1
and S2 or S3 and S4, one set for up and the other set for down.
....
http://metalworking.com/dropbox/tarp.txt
http://metalworking.com/dropbox/tarp.JPG

On the right side you see a three position switch. Select 'Tarp On' and
the motor drives the tarp over the load. The limit switch stops the
motor when the tarp is in place. Select 'Tarp Off' and the motor removes
the tarp from the load. The other limit switch stops the motor when the
tarp is off.
....

Some other posts have said to just use a switch rather than switch +
relays; 20A 12V DPDT center-off switches are readily available, eg
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=060-376 or page
89 of http://www.delcity.net/delcity/docum...9_switches.pdf
if 20A is enough for the tarp motor. Of course if the limit switches
aren't heavy enough to switch the motor, you'd need relays anyway.

Note that in the dropbox/tarp.JPG diagram, the K3 and K4 coils are
shown backwards. Hooked up as shown, the internal diodes or the
wiring to them would burn up on first use.
-jiw

Click on Catalog then scroll down to switches or enter part # 36016

http://www.warn.com/atv/index.shtml

Sorry about that!
Steve


"Dan " Dan@ wrote in message ...
Hey Steve, for some reason that link isn't working.


On Fri, 2 May 2008 07:49:13 -0500, "Up North"
wrote:


"Dan " Dan@ wrote in message ...
I have a power winch on my boat trailer that has power in both
directions and no solenoids or relays. It's done in the switch. Seems
that's all we need here, but my browser is being a real PIA
#(*&&%$$^&*& ARG!! So I can't find one.
Anyway, Fulton winches have power in both directions. Not all power
winches do. Maybe just a switch from them and your done.

This is what my Warn winch uses to operate both directions without
solenoids
or relays.
http://warn.iwebcat.com/_Members/lookups/partdetail.asp
Steve

James Waldby wrote:

Some other posts have said to just use a switch rather than switch +
relays; 20A 12V DPDT center-off switches are readily available, eg
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=060-376 or page
89 of http://www.delcity.net/delcity/docum...9_switches.pdf
if 20A is enough for the tarp motor. Of course if the limit switches
aren't heavy enough to switch the motor, you'd need relays anyway.

Those are A.C. rated at 20A. A switch rated properly is a different
animal altogether. Bigger and more expensive.
Can you tell me the part number for a DPDT center off switch capable of
handling locked rotor current, cheaply?

Using the relays allows one to use relatively light gauge wire to connect
the control panel to the motor and the limit switches, as you implied.

Note that in the dropbox/tarp.JPG diagram, the K3 and K4 coils are
shown backwards. Hooked up as shown, the internal diodes or the
wiring to them would burn up on first use.

Good catch! Thanks, James! Corrected version is posted.
http://metalworking.com/dropbox/tarp_a.JPG
http://metalworking.com/dropbox/tarp_a.txt


--Winston

Nothing wrong with that. Ford starter solonoids can handle 300A. Not
bad for less than $15. each.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

On Thu, 01 May 2008 19:05:20 -0600, wrote:


Relays are starter solenoids.

Thanks

gary
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