Well, Google so far has NOT been my friend.
With a HSS 2-56 tap broken off in a lump of bronze I did my search -
found reference to "jewellers' screw remover, a white paste". Looked all
over the place in jewellers' webpages and couldn't find a thing.
There was recent reference here to the use of alum (septic pencil), but I
believe that was for use for a tap snapped off in aluminum.
I could move the hole over and retap, but it would throw off the symmetry
of the piece - however if the worst comes to the worst.
Help!
Mike in BC

On Apr 8, 10:18 am, "Nick Leone" wrote:
I seem to recall from the book "machine shop trade secrets" a procedure for
broken tap removal that looked promising. His suggestion was to use a round
peice of carbide (in your case, probably 1/16") and grind a spade shape in
the end of it. From there, mount it in a mill and VERY slowly feed it into
the tap. It will (supposedly) cut right through.

That said, I've never tried this procedure, and 1/16" tool won't be very
rigid.

Do you have access to a wire-fed EDM machine?

-Nick

"Michael Gray" wrote in message

news
Well, Google so far has NOT been my friend.
With a HSS 2-56 tap broken off in a lump of bronze I did my search -
found reference to "jewellers' screw remover, a white paste". Looked all
over the place in jewellers' webpages and couldn't find a thing.
There was recent reference here to the use of alum (septic pencil), but I
believe that was for use for a tap snapped off in aluminum.
I could move the hole over and retap, but it would throw off the symmetry
of the piece - however if the worst comes to the worst.
Help!
Mike in BC

I used James' Harvey's technique with a 4-flute solid carbide ball
endmill, pecking 0.005-0.010 at a time against the quill stop. It
made short work of my 1/4"-20 tap, but I wouldn't try it with a tool
any smaller. The forces involved in the process far exceed those
encountered in ordinary drilling...

"Michael Gray" wrote in message
news
Well, Google so far has NOT been my friend.
With a HSS 2-56 tap broken off in a lump of bronze I did my search -
found reference to "jewellers' screw remover, a white paste". Looked all
over the place in jewellers' webpages and couldn't find a thing.



The jewelers stuff is just alum. Every generation seems to forget the trick
and someone capitalizes on this by putting a bunch of alum in little
bottles.

They sell a bunch and disappear before the old timers can stop laughing.



There was recent reference here to the use of alum (septic pencil), but I
believe that was for use for a tap snapped off in aluminum.
I could move the hole over and retap, but it would throw off the symmetry
of the piece - however if the worst comes to the worst.
Help!



Alum works fine on bronze.

Use a saturated solution. You have to keep it hot and the tap immersed. If
you can't do either, you are just gonna waste your time.

You used be able to get alum at drug stores, but it is getting harder to
find. It seems drug stores don't want to sell anything that doesn't come in
a blister pack.

It is also used by textile dyers. Check for places that cater to craft
dyers.

And they're called "Styptic pencils"


Paul K. Dickman

Nick Leone wrote:
Looking around, there are several hacked-together EDM based tap removal
techniques on the web. Here are two that I found interesting:

http://www.pico-systems.com/edm.html
This will work, it is extremely slow. If you can use a hollow electrode
it should help immensely by flushing out the crud. You know it is
working when a lot of black crud develops - that's atomized metal.
You need a method to move the electrode up and down in incredibly small
movements. I actually leaned on the head of my Bridgeport as the fine
feed, and used CNC feed at .01 IPM or so as the coarse feed. When you
get it working right, the electrode makes a sizzling sound, but it is
very hard to keep the gap just where that happens.

I have burned out a couple 4-40 taps this way, but it is very slow
going. An electronic pulser for this is on my "to do" list, but I don't
know when I'll get to it.

Jon

Paul K. Dickman wrote:
"Michael Gray" wrote in message
news
Well, Google so far has NOT been my friend.
With a HSS 2-56 tap broken off in a lump of bronze I did my search -
found reference to "jewellers' screw remover, a white paste". Looked all
over the place in jewellers' webpages and couldn't find a thing.




The jewelers stuff is just alum. Every generation seems to forget the trick
and someone capitalizes on this by putting a bunch of alum in little
bottles.


Howdja know I did just that with a buddy named Ed about 45 years ago?

We packed the alum in cardboard tubes with metal ends and slide off lids.

The name we sold it under was "Bust Out" and the label featured a photo
of Jane Mansfield wannabe with her nice rack protruding from a low cut
dress.

Didn't sell enough of it to keep up the project more than a few months,
but IIRC we didn't lose any money doing it.

Ed and I moved on to develop and patent a machine for keeping the
counter help in pool halls from robbing the owner blind by pocketing
cash being charged for pool table rental.

Quite simply, I built a console which had a bunch of switches to control
the lights over each pool table individually, and when a light was
turned on to let people play a Veeder Root counter (one per table)
clicked up the rental charge for the time they played, and that's what
they paid when done. A master counter totalized the "clicks" from all
the individual meters, and if the cash taken in didn't match what it
read for that day the owner knew something smelled.

Thanks for the mammaries,

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.





They sell a bunch and disappear before the old timers can stop laughing.




There was recent reference here to the use of alum (septic pencil), but I
believe that was for use for a tap snapped off in aluminum.
I could move the hole over and retap, but it would throw off the symmetry
of the piece - however if the worst comes to the worst.
Help!




Alum works fine on bronze.

Use a saturated solution. You have to keep it hot and the tap immersed. If
you can't do either, you are just gonna waste your time.

You used be able to get alum at drug stores, but it is getting harder to
find. It seems drug stores don't want to sell anything that doesn't come in
a blister pack.

It is also used by textile dyers. Check for places that cater to craft
dyers.

And they're called "Styptic pencils"


Paul K. Dickman

"Michael Gray" wrote in message
news
Well, Google so far has NOT been my friend.
With a HSS 2-56 tap broken off in a lump of bronze I did my search -
found reference to "jewellers' screw remover, a white paste". Looked all
over the place in jewellers' webpages and couldn't find a thing.
There was recent reference here to the use of alum (septic pencil), but I
believe that was for use for a tap snapped off in aluminum.
I could move the hole over and retap, but it would throw off the symmetry
of the piece - however if the worst comes to the worst.
Help!
Mike in BC

Commiseration!

Recently I was in the same situation having broken a 6-32 tap in mild steel.

In the end I had to drill it out using 3 small diamond drills.

Not a situation I care to repeat...

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I seem to recall alum is/was used in some pickling recipes, (as in
cucumbers) ; you might check in the spice section at the grocery
store.

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 16:26:12 -0500, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"Michael Gray" wrote in message
news
Well, Google so far has NOT been my friend.
With a HSS 2-56 tap broken off in a lump of bronze I did my search -
found reference to "jewellers' screw remover, a white paste". Looked all
over the place in jewellers' webpages and couldn't find a thing.



The jewelers stuff is just alum. Every generation seems to forget the trick
and someone capitalizes on this by putting a bunch of alum in little
bottles.

They sell a bunch and disappear before the old timers can stop laughing.



There was recent reference here to the use of alum (septic pencil), but I
believe that was for use for a tap snapped off in aluminum.
I could move the hole over and retap, but it would throw off the symmetry
of the piece - however if the worst comes to the worst.
Help!



Alum works fine on bronze.

Use a saturated solution. You have to keep it hot and the tap immersed. If
you can't do either, you are just gonna waste your time.

You used be able to get alum at drug stores, but it is getting harder to
find. It seems drug stores don't want to sell anything that doesn't come in
a blister pack.

It is also used by textile dyers. Check for places that cater to craft
dyers.

And they're called "Styptic pencils"


Paul K. Dickman

The jewelers stuff is just alum. Every generation seems to forget the trick
and someone capitalizes on this by putting a bunch of alum in little
bottles.

They sell a bunch and disappear before the old timers can stop laughing.

There was recent reference here to the use of alum (septic pencil), but I
believe that was for use for a tap snapped off in aluminum.
I could move the hole over and retap, but it would throw off the symmetry
of the piece - however if the worst comes to the worst.
Help!

Alum works fine on bronze.

Use a saturated solution. You have to keep it hot and the tap immersed. If
you can't do either, you are just gonna waste your time.

Paul K. Dickman

Alum, or Aluminum Potassium Sulphate, when added to water is Sulfuric
Acid.
Available in flooded cell auto batteries, and in the drain cleaner
section of some hardware stores.

Nasty stuff on skin or eyes.
I have no idea if it reacts with Bronze, but it does dissolve steel,
heat speeds up the reaction.

Dave

"Nick Leone" wrote in message
...
I seem to recall from the book "machine shop trade secrets" a procedure for
broken tap removal that looked promising. His suggestion was to use a
round peice of carbide (in your case, probably 1/16") and grind a spade
shape in the end of it. From there, mount it in a mill and VERY slowly
feed it into the tap. It will (supposedly) cut right through.

That said, I've never tried this procedure, and 1/16" tool won't be very
rigid.

Do you have access to a wire-fed EDM machine?

-Nick
snippage about a #2-56 broken tap in bronze

A wire feed EDM isn't gonna do a lot here...the chances of being able to get
a wire through, on location, aren't good. AND that's assuming that OP even
has a through hole.

"Michael Gray" wrote: (clip) I could move the hole over and retap, but it
would throw off the symmetry
of the piece)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Or you could drill out or core out an oversize hole, and then press in a
piece of bronze rod. Thisw would allow you to retap without losing the
symmetry.

Or how about heating the piece enough to anneal the broken tap, and then
drill it out?

Paul K. Dickman wrote:
"Michael Gray" wrote in message
news
Well, Google so far has NOT been my friend.
With a HSS 2-56 tap broken off in a lump of bronze I did my search -
found reference to "jewellers' screw remover, a white paste". Looked all
over the place in jewellers' webpages and couldn't find a thing.



The jewelers stuff is just alum. Every generation seems to forget the trick
and someone capitalizes on this by putting a bunch of alum in little
bottles.

They sell a bunch and disappear before the old timers can stop laughing.



There was recent reference here to the use of alum (septic pencil), but I
believe that was for use for a tap snapped off in aluminum.
I could move the hole over and retap, but it would throw off the symmetry
of the piece - however if the worst comes to the worst.
Help!



Alum works fine on bronze.

Use a saturated solution. You have to keep it hot and the tap immersed. If
you can't do either, you are just gonna waste your time.

You used be able to get alum at drug stores, but it is getting harder to
find. It seems drug stores don't want to sell anything that doesn't come in
a blister pack.

It is also used by textile dyers. Check for places that cater to craft
dyers.

And they're called "Styptic pencils"


Paul K. Dickman



Just wander into any grocery store and buy as much Alum as you want. It
is used in pickling and beer making as well as for metalworking!!!!


--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than
on Alzheimer's research. This means that by 2040, there will be a large
elderly population with perky boobs and huge erections and absolutely
no recollection of what to do with them.

Steve W. writes:

Just wander into any grocery store and buy as much Alum as you want. It
is used in pickling and beer making as well as for metalworking!!!!

What wondrous place is this you live, that commonly has such yesteryear
supplies? The local Publix would get cross-eyed if you asked for pickling
or brewing ingredients.

On Apr 8, 2:49 pm, wrote:
I seem to recall alum is/was used in some pickling recipes, (as in
cucumbers) ; you might check in the spice section at the grocery
store.

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 16:26:12 -0500, "Paul K. Dickman"

wrote:

"Michael Gray" wrote in message
news
Well, Google so far has NOT been my friend.
With a HSS 2-56 tap broken off in a lump of bronze I did my search -
found reference to "jewellers' screw remover, a white paste". Looked all
over the place in jewellers' webpages and couldn't find a thing.

The jewelers stuff is just alum. Every generation seems to forget the trick
and someone capitalizes on this by putting a bunch of alum in little
bottles.

They sell a bunch and disappear before the old timers can stop laughing.

There was recent reference here to the use of alum (septic pencil), but I
believe that was for use for a tap snapped off in aluminum.
I could move the hole over and retap, but it would throw off the symmetry
of the piece - however if the worst comes to the worst.
Help!

Alum works fine on bronze.

Use a saturated solution. You have to keep it hot and the tap immersed. If
you can't do either, you are just gonna waste your time.

You used be able to get alum at drug stores, but it is getting harder to
find. It seems drug stores don't want to sell anything that doesn't come in
a blister pack.

It is also used by textile dyers. Check for places that cater to craft
dyers.

And they're called "Styptic pencils"

Paul K. Dickman

It firms up your pickle.
Karl

On Apr 9, 12:45*am, "Steve W." wrote:

Just wander into any grocery store and buy as much Alum as you want. It
is used in pickling and beer making as well as for metalworking!!!!
Steve W.

Alum is used to acidify soil. Check the farm or garden store.

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 03:48:06 -0700 (PDT), with neither quill nor qualm,
" quickly quoth:

On Apr 8, 2:49 pm, wrote:
I seem to recall alum is/was used in some pickling recipes, (as in
cucumbers) ; you might check in the spice section at the grocery
store.

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 16:26:12 -0500, "Paul K. Dickman"

wrote:

"Michael Gray" wrote in message
news Well, Google so far has NOT been my friend.
With a HSS 2-56 tap broken off in a lump of bronze I did my search -
found reference to "jewellers' screw remover, a white paste". Looked all
over the place in jewellers' webpages and couldn't find a thing.

The jewelers stuff is just alum. Every generation seems to forget the trick
and someone capitalizes on this by putting a bunch of alum in little
bottles.

They sell a bunch and disappear before the old timers can stop laughing.

There was recent reference here to the use of alum (septic pencil), but I
believe that was for use for a tap snapped off in aluminum.
I could move the hole over and retap, but it would throw off the symmetry
of the piece - however if the worst comes to the worst.
Help!

Alum works fine on bronze.

Use a saturated solution. You have to keep it hot and the tap immersed. If
you can't do either, you are just gonna waste your time.

You used be able to get alum at drug stores, but it is getting harder to
find. It seems drug stores don't want to sell anything that doesn't come in
a blister pack.

It is also used by textile dyers. Check for places that cater to craft
dyers.

And they're called "Styptic pencils"

Paul K. Dickman

It firms up your pickle.

Ayieeeeeeeeeeeeee! Touch that to your pickle and it'll retract so far
up in your body you'll look like a woman.

--
Save the whales! Trade them for valuable prizes.

On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 00:02:59 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Steve W. writes:

Just wander into any grocery store and buy as much Alum as you want. It
is used in pickling and beer making as well as for metalworking!!!!

What wondrous place is this you live, that commonly has such yesteryear
supplies? The local Publix would get cross-eyed if you asked for pickling
or brewing ingredients.

Brewers stuff is mostly in specialty stores in my part of the world.
[but there are probably 5-6 within 20 miles]

Walmart carries a complete batch of canning/pickling supplies- and
most large grocers do pretty well in season.

I'm near Albany, NY. Publix looks like a southeast US chain-- and
no canning supplies? [are you in a city or in the suburbs?]

Jim

On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 01:56:18 GMT, Leo Lichtman wrote:

"Michael Gray" wrote: (clip) I could move the hole over and retap, but it
would throw off the symmetry
of the piece)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Or you could drill out or core out an oversize hole, and then press in a
piece of bronze rod. Thisw would allow you to retap without losing the
symmetry.

Or how about heating the piece enough to anneal the broken tap, and then
drill it out?

He said is was a HSS tap.

Carbon tap you could anneal in Bronze. Next time break a carbon one.

Taps are steel and are easily dissolved in muriatic acid.
Bronze will lose a little tin at the surface (or zinc if it's really
brass), but will not be etched away by muriatic.
Wear gloves and goggles. Carefully add muriatic acid to the hole.
Bubbles of hydrogen gas will form as the tap dissolves. You needn't
dissolve it completely - just enough to allow you to screw it back out
using needlenose or some such tool.
Bruce
NJ

Mechanical Magic wrote:

Alum, or Aluminum Potassium Sulphate, when added to water is Sulfuric
Acid.
Dave

I don't know where you took chemistry but I bet it isnt acredited.
...lew...

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:03:38 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

Paul K. Dickman wrote:
"Michael Gray" wrote in message
news
Well, Google so far has NOT been my friend.
With a HSS 2-56 tap broken off in a lump of bronze I did my search -
found reference to "jewellers' screw remover, a white paste". Looked all
over the place in jewellers' webpages and couldn't find a thing.




The jewelers stuff is just alum. Every generation seems to forget the trick
and someone capitalizes on this by putting a bunch of alum in little
bottles.


Howdja know I did just that with a buddy named Ed about 45 years ago?

We packed the alum in cardboard tubes with metal ends and slide off lids.

The name we sold it under was "Bust Out" and the label featured a photo
of Jane Mansfield wannabe with her nice rack protruding from a low cut
dress.

Didn't sell enough of it to keep up the project more than a few months,
but IIRC we didn't lose any money doing it.

Ed and I moved on to develop and patent a machine for keeping the
counter help in pool halls from robbing the owner blind by pocketing
cash being charged for pool table rental.

Quite simply, I built a console which had a bunch of switches to control
the lights over each pool table individually, and when a light was
turned on to let people play a Veeder Root counter (one per table)
clicked up the rental charge for the time they played, and that's what
they paid when done. A master counter totalized the "clicks" from all
the individual meters, and if the cash taken in didn't match what it
read for that day the owner knew something smelled.

Thanks for the mammaries,

Jeff

"Bust Out". LOL. Another data point for my theory that dirty old men
evolve from dirty young men.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:03:38 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:


Paul K. Dickman wrote:

"Michael Gray" wrote in message
news

Well, Google so far has NOT been my friend.
With a HSS 2-56 tap broken off in a lump of bronze I did my search -
found reference to "jewellers' screw remover, a white paste". Looked all
over the place in jewellers' webpages and couldn't find a thing.




The jewelers stuff is just alum. Every generation seems to forget the trick
and someone capitalizes on this by putting a bunch of alum in little
bottles.


Howdja know I did just that with a buddy named Ed about 45 years ago?

We packed the alum in cardboard tubes with metal ends and slide off lids.

The name we sold it under was "Bust Out" and the label featured a photo
of Jane Mansfield wannabe with her nice rack protruding from a low cut
dress.

Didn't sell enough of it to keep up the project more than a few months,
but IIRC we didn't lose any money doing it.

Ed and I moved on to develop and patent a machine for keeping the
counter help in pool halls from robbing the owner blind by pocketing
cash being charged for pool table rental.

Quite simply, I built a console which had a bunch of switches to control
the lights over each pool table individually, and when a light was
turned on to let people play a Veeder Root counter (one per table)
clicked up the rental charge for the time they played, and that's what
they paid when done. A master counter totalized the "clicks" from all
the individual meters, and if the cash taken in didn't match what it
read for that day the owner knew something smelled.

Thanks for the mammaries,

Jeff


"Bust Out". LOL. Another data point for my theory that dirty old men
evolve from dirty young men.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


"A dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste"

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

Thanks for the reminder on HCl and the alum method gentlemen.
Also had a local gunsmith suggest using a Dremel tool with dentists' burrs.
Got it out and retapped to 4-40.
Mike in BC

On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 10:39:14 -0700, freemab222 wrote:

Taps are steel and are easily dissolved in muriatic acid. Bronze will lose
a little tin at the surface (or zinc if it's really brass), but will not
be etched away by muriatic. Wear gloves and goggles. Carefully add
muriatic acid to the hole. Bubbles of hydrogen gas will form as the tap
dissolves. You needn't dissolve it completely - just enough to allow you
to screw it back out using needlenose or some such tool.
Bruce
NJ