On 2008-01-16, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"Ignoramus25819" wrote in message
news
On 2008-01-16, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

Best of all, it doesn't attack parent metal. That's one of the negative
attributes of HCl.


Harold, how serious of an issue, practically, is hydrogen
embrittlement related to HCl? For example, let's say that I dunk a
lifting chain in HCl for 20 minutes. Would it become unsafe
afterwards? I always appreciate your knowledge and opinions.

i

I can render only an opinion. For what it's worth: Yes, it would be a
problem. Hardened steel has an affinity for hydrogen, thus it is readily
absorbed. What would concern me with a chain is the relatively thin
sections, which would likely be fully penetrated in short order. The
roasting process is simple----and would assure that there was no problem.
375 degrees F for a couple hours and there's no worry.


I did this to one chain a while ago, and do not mind taking corrective
action if necessary. Is that correct to say that taking it to an oven
as you described, can be done quite some time after it was derusted?

Thanks Harold. Maybe your advice would prevent me from getting in
trouble.

i

"Ignoramus13560" wrote in message
...
On 2008-01-16, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"Ignoramus25819" wrote in message
news
On 2008-01-16, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

Best of all, it doesn't attack parent metal. That's one of the negative
attributes of HCl.


Harold, how serious of an issue, practically, is hydrogen
embrittlement related to HCl? For example, let's say that I dunk a
lifting chain in HCl for 20 minutes. Would it become unsafe
afterwards? I always appreciate your knowledge and opinions.

i

I can render only an opinion. For what it's worth: Yes, it would be a
problem. Hardened steel has an affinity for hydrogen, thus it is
readily
absorbed. What would concern me with a chain is the relatively thin
sections, which would likely be fully penetrated in short order. The
roasting process is simple----and would assure that there was no problem.
375 degrees F for a couple hours and there's no worry.


I did this to one chain a while ago, and do not mind taking corrective
action if necessary. Is that correct to say that taking it to an oven
as you described, can be done quite some time after it was derusted?

Thanks Harold. Maybe your advice would prevent me from getting in
trouble.

i

I'm not privy to any information that dictates that the operation can't be
performed at a later date. I would assume doing it late is better than not
doing it as all. As long as the chain appears to be good now, you have
nothing to lose by following the procedure. The temperature is below that
which would alter the heat treat condition, so you have nothing to fear.

Harold

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:36:15 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:

"Ignoramus13560" wrote in message
...
On 2008-01-16, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

I did this to one chain a while ago, and do not mind taking corrective
action if necessary. Is that correct to say that taking it to an oven
as you described, can be done quite some time after it was derusted?

I'm not privy to any information that dictates that the operation can't be
performed at a later date. I would assume doing it late is better than not
doing it as all. As long as the chain appears to be good now, you have
nothing to lose by following the procedure. The temperature is below that
which would alter the heat treat condition, so you have nothing to fear.

According to the ASM Metals Handbook hydrogen embrittlement isn't
nearly as problematic when pickling as it is for various plating
processes. Apparently aging is sufficient after pickling to reverse
any potential damage, while roasting ASAP is required for the worst of
the plating processes.

--
Ned Simmons

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:27:41 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

According to the ASM Metals Handbook hydrogen embrittlement isn't
nearly as problematic when pickling as it is for various plating
processes. Apparently aging is sufficient after pickling to reverse
any potential damage, while roasting ASAP is required for the worst of
the plating processes.

Hi Ned,

Any guesstimates on the "aging" timeframe/values?

Months, years, eras?


--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:36:15 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:

"Ignoramus13560" wrote in message
...
On 2008-01-16, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

I did this to one chain a while ago, and do not mind taking corrective
action if necessary. Is that correct to say that taking it to an oven
as you described, can be done quite some time after it was derusted?

I'm not privy to any information that dictates that the operation can't be
performed at a later date. I would assume doing it late is better than
not
doing it as all. As long as the chain appears to be good now, you have
nothing to lose by following the procedure. The temperature is below that
which would alter the heat treat condition, so you have nothing to fear.

According to the ASM Metals Handbook hydrogen embrittlement isn't
nearly as problematic when pickling as it is for various plating
processes. Apparently aging is sufficient after pickling to reverse
any potential damage, while roasting ASAP is required for the worst of
the plating processes.

--
Ned Simmons

Thanks, Ned. There's not a lot of information available on that topic

Harold

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:20:36 -0500, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:27:41 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

According to the ASM Metals Handbook hydrogen embrittlement isn't
nearly as problematic when pickling as it is for various plating
processes. Apparently aging is sufficient after pickling to reverse
any potential damage, while roasting ASAP is required for the worst of
the plating processes.

Hi Ned,

Any guesstimates on the "aging" timeframe/values?

Months, years, eras?

A guess? Days. Much more would seem impractical in a manufacturing
context, which is the focus of the ASM handbook.

--
Ned Simmons

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:39:22 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:20:36 -0500, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:27:41 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

According to the ASM Metals Handbook hydrogen embrittlement isn't
nearly as problematic when pickling as it is for various plating
processes. Apparently aging is sufficient after pickling to reverse
any potential damage, while roasting ASAP is required for the worst of
the plating processes.

Hi Ned,

Any guesstimates on the "aging" timeframe/values?

Months, years, eras?

A guess? Days. Much more would seem impractical in a manufacturing
context, which is the focus of the ASM handbook.

If that is really the case I don't need to worry about it.
At the speed I move with any of my "projects" nowadays it
would be 2-3 years before I would be putting it to use


--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email