distro trimmed to rec.crafts.metalworking

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:02:18 -0800 (PST), Dom
wrote:
snip
Don't get me wrong, I think guns are cool. I like them, don't own any
and don't want to. I understand hunters, farmers, collectors, but its
not necessary in Australia for citizens to arm themselves. Thats what
the police are for. I think it is a sad state of affairs that
American society has declined so much that you feel so threatened and
carry weapons to defend yourself.
snip
==========
Chairman Mao was largely correct when he observed "political
power grows out of the barrel of a gun," although not in the way
he meant it.

INMSHO the real question is the ability and desire of the people
to act decisively on their own behalf as required when the
government either can't or won't.

For one example of how this works in practice click on
http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/623597.html


for the downside (and liberal view) click on
http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/637985.html
Note that again the emphasis is on the "tool" used and not the
root causes, which makes perfect political sense because it is
easy to blame the "tool" and pass legislation but hard/expensive
to address the foundational problems of no employment, social
dislocation, and illegal immigration status, especially as any
foundational changes would disrupt the "business plans" of the
large corporations (i.e. reduce their profits) resulting in
reduced or no corporate campeign contributions for the next
election.

To see the futility of "gun control" [as opposed to
criminal/crime control] review the UK papers for "gun crime."

Indeed, things have reached such a sorry state there that a
Scottish homeowner was just imprisoned for longer than the
burglar after he awoke and beat the crap out of a burglar he
discovered in his and his wife's bedroom when he was awakened.

These problems will continue to grow as long as the
socio-economic groups that generate most of the criminals
continue to increase as a percent of the population, whether due
to mental capacity/lack of education, and/or immigration status,
and/or "luck of the draw" in the economic sweep stakes.

A metric called the GINI index or coefficient measures the
distribution of wealth [and the method is often used to measure
the distribution of other items such as health care.] The range
is 0 indicating perfect equality to 1 indicating perfect
inequality, i.e. one person has everything.

The US has the highest GINI of any of the OECD nations, and it
continues to rapidly increase approaching third world levels in
the national aggregate, and is well in to 3rd world values in
many large urban areas such as Los Angeles and Washington DC.

Statistically, quality of life metrics such as the rate of crimes
against persons and crimes against property are *HIGHLY*
correlated with the GINI income [inequality] index. IMNSHO the
US is dangerously near the "tipping point" as indicated by the
experiences [and GINI indexes] of Brazil, Argentina and Columbia.
Their situations took generates to create and will most like take
generations to correct.

It gets pretty simple: Outlawing booze didn't work and had serious
unintended consequences. Outlawing drugs hasn't worked and continues to
have serious unintended (I hope) consequences. Outlawing guns will have the
same problems and will create a blackmarket for guns because there will
always be a market. A relative of mine was the high sheriff of a large
county and he informed the citizens in his area that if they called for
assistance it would be at least 30 minutes to get a deputy to their area.
For some people living farther out it would take more time. He advised them
to own and know how to use a firearm to protect themselves. The police
exist to investigate the crime after it is committed and not necessarily to
prevent crime other than a perception of what will happen to you AFTER you
commit the crime. I will take steps to defend my home and property because
the police can't.
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
distro trimmed to rec.crafts.metalworking

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:02:18 -0800 (PST), Dom
wrote:
snip
Don't get me wrong, I think guns are cool. I like them, don't own any
and don't want to. I understand hunters, farmers, collectors, but its
not necessary in Australia for citizens to arm themselves. Thats what
the police are for. I think it is a sad state of affairs that
American society has declined so much that you feel so threatened and
carry weapons to defend yourself.
snip
==========
Chairman Mao was largely correct when he observed "political
power grows out of the barrel of a gun," although not in the way
he meant it.

INMSHO the real question is the ability and desire of the people
to act decisively on their own behalf as required when the
government either can't or won't.

For one example of how this works in practice click on
http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/623597.html


for the downside (and liberal view) click on
http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/637985.html
Note that again the emphasis is on the "tool" used and not the
root causes, which makes perfect political sense because it is
easy to blame the "tool" and pass legislation but hard/expensive
to address the foundational problems of no employment, social
dislocation, and illegal immigration status, especially as any
foundational changes would disrupt the "business plans" of the
large corporations (i.e. reduce their profits) resulting in
reduced or no corporate campeign contributions for the next
election.

To see the futility of "gun control" [as opposed to
criminal/crime control] review the UK papers for "gun crime."

Indeed, things have reached such a sorry state there that a
Scottish homeowner was just imprisoned for longer than the
burglar after he awoke and beat the crap out of a burglar he
discovered in his and his wife's bedroom when he was awakened.

These problems will continue to grow as long as the
socio-economic groups that generate most of the criminals
continue to increase as a percent of the population, whether due
to mental capacity/lack of education, and/or immigration status,
and/or "luck of the draw" in the economic sweep stakes.

A metric called the GINI index or coefficient measures the
distribution of wealth [and the method is often used to measure
the distribution of other items such as health care.] The range
is 0 indicating perfect equality to 1 indicating perfect
inequality, i.e. one person has everything.

The US has the highest GINI of any of the OECD nations, and it
continues to rapidly increase approaching third world levels in
the national aggregate, and is well in to 3rd world values in
many large urban areas such as Los Angeles and Washington DC.

Statistically, quality of life metrics such as the rate of crimes
against persons and crimes against property are *HIGHLY*
correlated with the GINI income [inequality] index. IMNSHO the
US is dangerously near the "tipping point" as indicated by the
experiences [and GINI indexes] of Brazil, Argentina and Columbia.
Their situations took generates to create and will most like take
generations to correct.

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:46:54 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

distro trimmed to rec.crafts.metalworking

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:02:18 -0800 (PST), Dom
wrote:
snip
Don't get me wrong, I think guns are cool. I like them, don't own any
and don't want to. I understand hunters, farmers, collectors, but its
not necessary in Australia for citizens to arm themselves. Thats what
the police are for. I think it is a sad state of affairs that
American society has declined so much that you feel so threatened and
carry weapons to defend yourself.
snip
==========
Chairman Mao was largely correct when he observed "political
power grows out of the barrel of a gun," although not in the way
he meant it.

INMSHO the real question is the ability and desire of the people
to act decisively on their own behalf as required when the
government either can't or won't.


http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen.htm

http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen_press.htm

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:14:31 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner quickly quoth:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:46:54 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

distro trimmed to rec.crafts.metalworking

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:02:18 -0800 (PST), Dom
wrote:
snip
Don't get me wrong, I think guns are cool. I like them, don't own any
and don't want to. I understand hunters, farmers, collectors, but its
not necessary in Australia for citizens to arm themselves. Thats what
the police are for. I think it is a sad state of affairs that
American society has declined so much that you feel so threatened and
carry weapons to defend yourself.
snip
==========
Chairman Mao was largely correct when he observed "political
power grows out of the barrel of a gun," although not in the way
he meant it.

INMSHO the real question is the ability and desire of the people
to act decisively on their own behalf as required when the
government either can't or won't.


http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen.htm

http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen_press.htm

It seems like it's that time again, but nobody is revolting except our
fearless gov't officials (from the ground up), and I don't mean
"revolting" in a political way.

---
Chaos, panic, and disorder--my work here is done.

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:12:42 -0800, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields"
wrote:

It gets pretty simple: Outlawing booze didn't work and had serious
unintended consequences. Outlawing drugs hasn't worked and continues to
have serious unintended (I hope) consequences. Outlawing guns will have the
same problems and will create a blackmarket for guns because there will
always be a market.
snip
================
Even if you don't have a black market in guns (and even if guns
didn't exist) you would still have problems. For one example
(out of thousands) click on
http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/641133.html

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:18:00 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:12:42 -0800, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields"
wrote:

It gets pretty simple: Outlawing booze didn't work and had serious
unintended consequences. Outlawing drugs hasn't worked and continues to
have serious unintended (I hope) consequences. Outlawing guns will have the
same problems and will create a blackmarket for guns because there will
always be a market.
snip
================
Even if you don't have a black market in guns (and even if guns
didn't exist) you would still have problems. For one example
(out of thousands) click on
http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/641133.html

http://www.gunowners.org/op0132.htm

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 05:09:35 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
Gunner quickly quoth:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:46:54 -0600, F. George McDuffee
....
Chairman Mao was largely correct when he observed "political power
grows out of the barrel of a gun," although not in the way he meant it.

INMSHO the real question is the ability and desire of the people to act
decisively on their own behalf as required when the government either
can't or won't.

http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen.htm

http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen_press.htm

It seems like it's that time again, but nobody is revolting except our
fearless gov't officials (from the ground up), and I don't mean
"revolting" in a political way.

Excerpts from The Declaration of Independence:
"...He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his
Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their
offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of
Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the
Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the
Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to
our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to
their Acts of pretended Legislation:
...
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
..."

Remind you of anyone?

Thanks,
Rich