Are any of you onto this breaking story?

The Times of London is generally accepted as a credible
source:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...le3137695.ece?

For a video, see this less credible source:
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12166

For more info, see:
http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff01072008.html

it suggests that living in one
of the 4 or 5 largest U.S. cities is a bit less safe than
one might suppose.

Metalworking content: Nuke building

Gunner

--


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

The gist of the story is that most likely, such "leaks" were actually
authorized by high levels.

i

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 09:13:34 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Are any of you onto this breaking story?

The Times of London is generally accepted as a credible
source:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...le3137695.ece?

For a video, see this less credible source:
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12166

For more info, see:
http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff01072008.html

it suggests that living in one
of the 4 or 5 largest U.S. cities is a bit less safe than
one might suppose.

Metalworking content: Nuke building

Gunner
====================
While if true (as it appears to be) this is indeed a major
concern, however the more immediate, and therefore more dangerous
situation, is the administration's attempt to generate a "Son of
Tonkin" or "Tonkin II" situation and panic congress into passing
a resolution to justify a pre-emptive war with Iran.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080108/...7kZf3rH2Cs0NUE
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...tory?track=rss

This became necessary when our "spooks" leaked the NIE indicating
that Iran had stopped nuclear military work shortly after the end
of the Iran/Iraq war, because it became evident that the "raw"
intelligence data was again being "cherry-picked," and that the
intelligence services were again being setup to be the fall-guy.
For actual NIE text see
http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20071203_release.pdf

Other news that may be impacting events in the area include
http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/men...6820152845.htm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080104/cm_csm/ylynch_1

On the other hand this claim of massive espionage may be another
diversionary "Reichstag fire" to panic the people and
additionally slander the functionaries/bureaucrats in the
permanent government as "pay-back" for leaking the NIE, and
stopping a war they had their hearts set on, but which would have
been [and will be] a disaster for the people and government of
the United States [It won't do much for the Iranians either…]


-- Change of topic here --

Politically I am somewhat to the right of Attila the Hun, but the
IMT [International Military Tribunal / Nuremberg] is unequivocal
on the following points.
http://www.lib.uconn.edu/online/rese...ound/index.htm

snip
On 8 August 1945, the charter of the International Military
Tribunal declared that aggressive war was an international crime
and an International Military Tribunal was established in
Nuremberg, Germany to try the remaining major German leaders for
their actions both before and during World War II. Nuremberg was
the city where Hitler had proclaimed his racial laws in 1935.
Judges from the United States, Great Britain, France, and the
Soviet Union, as well as four alternates were assigned the
jurisdiction to try high ranking Nazis deemed personally
responsible for the specific charges. This would be the first
time that an international court would hold a government
responsible for its treatment of both its own citizens and
citizens of other countries during war time.

"The wrongs which we seek to condemn and punish have been so
calculated, so malignant and so devastating that civilization
cannot tolerate their being ignored because it cannot survive
their being repeated." [Justice Robert Jackson, opening
statement People vs. Nazism]

The specific charges that were brought against twenty-three
individuals included crimes against peace, war crimes, and crimes
against humanity. ==Crimes against peace were defined as the
planning, preparation, initiation, and waging of a war of
aggression.== [emphasis added] War crimes were defined as the
violations of the laws or customs of war including the murder,
ill treatment and deportation to slave labor of civilian
populations and the murder and ill treatment of prisoners of war.
Crimes against humanity were defined as the murder,
extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane
treatment of civilians before and during the war. This also
included the persecution of individuals on political, racial or
religious grounds.
snip
----------

In addition, by its documented actions, the Bush administration
is in direct and flagrant violation of several articles of the UN
charter/treaty, which has the force of law, and "trumps" the US
Constitution [which is one of the main danger of treaties].
http://www.cdi.org/news/law/preemptive-war.cfm

Notes for Cliff:

It is both useless and counter-productive to demonize
Bush/Chaney. By themselves they could do little or nothing. The
problem is the system/organization that allows, indeed promotes,
these sorts of activities, and introduces "positive feed-back"
where "reality" is made to conform to the biases,
pre-conceptions, and assumptions of the leaders. This is
dangerous in business and catastrophic in government, as sooner
or later "reality" always wins.

The combination of a "duty to act" with the "power to act"
defines accountability. By their failure to exercise the
fundamental Constitutional "power of the purse," and their
continual evasion of the Congressional responsibility to "Declare
War" [Artice I section 8] Reid/Pelosi and the Democrats are as
guilty as Bush/Chaney and the Republicans, under the legal
doctrine of "aiding and abetting."

To his credit John McCain introduced twin resolutions that would
have forced Congress to take a firm position either for or
against war with Iraq, but was shouted down by the gas-bags,
no-loads and dick-weeds. Unfortunately, he has not followed
through on his initial skepticism.

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 14:28:36 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:
snip
While if true (as it appears to be) this is indeed a major
concern, however the more immediate, and therefore more dangerous
situation, is the administration's attempt to generate a "Son of
Tonkin" or "Tonkin II" situation and panic congress into passing
a resolution to justify a pre-emptive war with Iran.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080108/...7kZf3rH2Cs0NUE
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...tory?track=rss
snip
===============
several people have pointed out that it can be argued that the
WMD fiasco was "Tonkin II" or "Son of Tonkin," and we are
actually working on Tonkin III, sorta like the Rambo series.....

for the youngsters in the group who don't recognize the "Tonkin"
reference click on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Resolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident

follow-up to my own post.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080109/...LSWGs4hFtvaA8F

I have not been able to locate the entire video for review, but
the bits and pieces I have seen appear similar to the home videos
that "prove" UFOs exist.

The short excerpts I have seen have been low definition, similar
to cell phone videos, choppy, and do not appear to show any US
Navy ships in the background or US Navy equipment in the
foreground as would be expected. Also, Iranian/Revolutionary
Guards markings, flags or insignia are also not seen on the
"attack boats." From the video I have seen, the "attack boats"
could just as easily been drug runner fast boats videoed by the
DEA while avoiding capture, or even some of the idle rich evading
the Coast Guard.

The US Navy now admits the audio was dubbed from a separate
recording and that the entire video as released is a
compilation/composite.

Given the very tense situation (and highly skeptical public), why
are continuous 360 degree high definition video and audio
surveillance recordings, including GPS and radar data not
required on every individual US navel vessel in the area? It
can't be because of cost.

To come back to cell phones for a moment, has anyone heard/seen
of any personal pictures or videos taken of this "attack?"

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 14:28:36 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:
snip
While if true (as it appears to be) this is indeed a major
concern, however the more immediate, and therefore more dangerous
situation, is the administration's attempt to generate a "Son of
Tonkin" or "Tonkin II" situation and panic congress into passing
a resolution to justify a pre-emptive war with Iran.
snip
===========
And this just in ..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7182637.stm

The admission by the US Navy that Iranian speedboats might not
have been the source of an apparent threat to attack American
ships in the Gulf is a significant move that raises new fears
about the chances of unintended clashes in the region.
snip
The video released by the US implied that the warning was part of
a series of transmissions to the ships from the Iranian craft.

It turns out that the warning was added onto the video. It was a
radio recording made separately.
snip
------------------------
It remains to be determined if this was a CIA or a MOSSAD
operation.

Oil hits 100$/bbl, gold hits 900$/oz, governmental debt at all
levels and the trade deficit continues to rapidly mount, and
California [as the first domino] is on the verge of bankruptcy.

The preferred establishment solution? --- start a(nother) war.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:16:45 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:
snip
and
California [as the first domino] is on the verge of bankruptcy.
=========
WOW -- that was fast --

Several people emailed me to ask about the California budget
crisis.

click on
http://www.sacbee.com/dyn/comments/s...&tie_to=626364

For people that live in other states [like me -- Kansas] remember
that California is unique only that it is *FIRST*.

The available information/data indicates that *ALL* [US] states
and most of the major municipalities, have evaded the "no
deficit" provisions of their constitutions/charters, and have
accumulated horrendous unfunded pension liabilities, as well as
massive "authority" or quasi independent institutional [such as
university] debts for which they are responsible as guarantors.

California is of particular concern as it is the home of "high
tech" (as in silicone valley), and by GSP [gross state product]
is the 6th or 7th largest economy in the world.

If we have to rerun years because of the writers' strike, lets
chose one other than 1929... What a way to start 2008...

F. George McDuffee wrote:

Oil hits 100$/bbl, gold hits 900$/oz, governmental debt at all
levels and the trade deficit continues to rapidly mount, and
California [as the first domino] is on the verge of bankruptcy.

Got a cite that California is "on the verge
of bankruptcy"?

Jim Stewart wrote:
F. George McDuffee wrote:

Oil hits 100$/bbl, gold hits 900$/oz, governmental debt at all
levels and the trade deficit continues to rapidly mount, and
California [as the first domino] is on the verge of bankruptcy.


Got a cite that California is "on the verge
of bankruptcy"?

Try the evening news..

Arnold is going to release 22,000 inmates early so he can fire
4000 guards.

Cost cutting.

Or maybe re-stocking the pond?

cavelamb himself wrote:
Jim Stewart wrote:
F. George McDuffee wrote:

Oil hits 100$/bbl, gold hits 900$/oz, governmental debt at all
levels and the trade deficit continues to rapidly mount, and
California [as the first domino] is on the verge of bankruptcy.


Got a cite that California is "on the verge
of bankruptcy"?

Try the evening news..

Arnold is going to release 22,000 inmates early so he can fire
4000 guards.

Not the same.

Again, do you have a cite that "California
is on the verge of bankruptcy"?

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:13:51 -0600, cavelamb himself
wrote:

Jim Stewart wrote:
F. George McDuffee wrote:

Oil hits 100$/bbl, gold hits 900$/oz, governmental debt at all
levels and the trade deficit continues to rapidly mount, and
California [as the first domino] is on the verge of bankruptcy.


Got a cite that California is "on the verge
of bankruptcy"?

Try the evening news..

Arnold is going to release 22,000 inmates early so he can fire
4000 guards.

Cost cutting.

Or maybe re-stocking the pond?


Cost cutting is done all the time (unfortunatlly not in very large
amounts though)

This hardly means Cali is on the verge of Bankruptcy

When revenues slow down, one has to back off on their extravagant life
style. Eat at Micky Ds rather than Haute Cusine.

Doesnt mean you are ready to auction off the office furniture.

Gunner


Gunner

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:50:59 -0800, Jim Stewart
wrote:

Got a cite that California is "on the verge
of bankruptcy"?
========
Our postings crossed. See my posting on this.

Several people also emailed me about this.

My only "error" was using the qualifier "verge," as it now clear
the State of California *IS* bankrupt, to the extent they are
shutting down a large portion of their prison system to "save"
money. FWIW -- it appears the per capita cost to incarcerate in
individual in California is about twice [c.40k$/yr] what the
other states such as Texas and Florida report [c.20k$/yr],
although this may be due to a difference in accounting.
California's prison systems are under Federal court supervision.

As indicated, the critical factor is that California is not
unique, it is only first.

Now if we can only get all the guns registered......

F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:50:59 -0800, Jim Stewart
wrote:

Got a cite that California is "on the verge
of bankruptcy"?
========
Our postings crossed. See my posting on this.

Several people also emailed me about this.

My only "error" was using the qualifier "verge," as it now clear
the State of California *IS* bankrupt, to the extent they are
shutting down a large portion of their prison system to "save"
money. FWIW -- it appears the per capita cost to incarcerate in
individual in California is about twice [c.40k$/yr] what the
other states such as Texas and Florida report [c.20k$/yr],
although this may be due to a difference in accounting.
California's prison systems are under Federal court supervision.

The California budget issue is election year
political posturing. Arnold is greasing things
up so he can stick the state employees' unions.

Bankruptcy has nothing to do with the costs
of incarcerating prisoners. It has to do
with paying off your debts at pennies on
the dollar. Hasn't happened, won't happen.

But hey, I don't mind your rhetoric, as long
as I know it's rhetoric.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:37:04 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:


My only "error" was using the qualifier "verge," as it now clear
the State of California *IS* bankrupt, to the extent they are
shutting down a large portion of their prison system to "save"
money. FWIW -- it appears the per capita cost to incarcerate in
individual in California is about twice [c.40k$/yr] what the
other states such as Texas and Florida report [c.20k$/yr],
although this may be due to a difference in accounting.
California's prison systems are under Federal court supervision.


Its largely the high wages and benis paid to the Corrections officers

They make an incredible amount of money here in California.
****ing union.


Gunner

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos shoed that Jim Stewart
wrote on Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:50:59 -0800 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
F. George McDuffee wrote:

Oil hits 100$/bbl, gold hits 900$/oz, governmental debt at all
levels and the trade deficit continues to rapidly mount, and
California [as the first domino] is on the verge of bankruptcy.

Got a cite that California is "on the verge
of bankruptcy"?

Ummm, it is run by Democrats??

pyotr

Okay, not a cite, but ...
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos shoed that Jim Stewart
wrote on Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:50:59 -0800 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
F. George McDuffee wrote:

Oil hits 100$/bbl, gold hits 900$/oz, governmental debt at all
levels and the trade deficit continues to rapidly mount, and
California [as the first domino] is on the verge of bankruptcy.

Got a cite that California is "on the verge
of bankruptcy"?

Ummm, it is run by Democrats??

pyotr

Dick Cheney once said, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Only he
didn't. They do.

The US cannot go bankrupt because its debts are denominated in its own
currency. States can go bankrupt, when they follow the contemporary
Republican, which is to say the Reagan/Cheney, economic philosophy.

While the US can't go bankrupt, its economy can wind up looking like it is.
The distinction won't matter.

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:16:45 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip
The video released by the US implied that the warning was part of
a series of transmissions to the ships from the Iranian craft.

It turns out that the warning was added onto the video. It was a
radio recording made separately.
snip


Yes and? Im sure most video cameras do not come equipped with radio
receivers. Patching a tape from the comm shack onto the video makes
sense.

CIA? Mossad?

How about dumb****s from Iran on those speed boats?

Sometimes a cigar is simply a cigar.

Gunner

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:39:09 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:16:45 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip
The video released by the US implied that the warning was part of
a series of transmissions to the ships from the Iranian craft.

It turns out that the warning was added onto the video. It was a
radio recording made separately.
snip


Yes and? Im sure most video cameras do not come equipped with radio
receivers. Patching a tape from the comm shack onto the video makes
sense.
When a video tape is offered as "evidence," particularly as a
"casus belli," common sense suggests that information about any
splicing, over dubbing, enhancement, etc. should also be
included.

More information continues to trickle out-- click on
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080114/...b7p1O65bqs0NUE
For this we are preparing to go to war????

CIA? Mossad?

How about dumb****s from Iran on those speed boats?
I wonder how the US would respond if Iranian navy ships with
known cruise missile capability and 20 mile heavy gun range,
appeared 3.1 miles off our [the US] shores [technically in
international waters], for example just off New York City or Los
Angeles and began taking pictures.

Given the volatility of the region/situation, common sense
indicates a operations order should be issued immediately,
prohibiting all US naval and air units approaching any closer to
Iran's coastline than 20 miles ==unless their mission is to
incite/provoke these types of incidents.==


Sometimes a cigar is simply a cigar.
That's what Larry Craig keeps saying, but it don't look like no
cigar to me....

Gunner

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:39:17 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:39:09 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:16:45 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

snip
The video released by the US implied that the warning was part of
a series of transmissions to the ships from the Iranian craft.

It turns out that the warning was added onto the video. It was a
radio recording made separately.
snip


Yes and? Im sure most video cameras do not come equipped with radio
receivers. Patching a tape from the comm shack onto the video makes
sense.
When a video tape is offered as "evidence," particularly as a
"casus belli," common sense suggests that information about any
splicing, over dubbing, enhancement, etc. should also be
included.

More information continues to trickle out-- click on
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080114/...b7p1O65bqs0NUE
For this we are preparing to go to war????

USS Cole......

CIA? Mossad?

How about dumb****s from Iran on those speed boats?
I wonder how the US would respond if Iranian navy ships with
known cruise missile capability and 20 mile heavy gun range,
appeared 3.1 miles off our [the US] shores [technically in
international waters], for example just off New York City or Los
Angeles and began taking pictures.

How wide is the Straits of Hormuz again?


Given the volatility of the region/situation, common sense
indicates a operations order should be issued immediately,
prohibiting all US naval and air units approaching any closer to
Iran's coastline than 20 miles ==unless their mission is to
incite/provoke these types of incidents.==

How wide is the Straits of Hormuz again?


Sometimes a cigar is simply a cigar.
That's what Larry Craig keeps saying, but it don't look like no
cigar to me....

Got that good a look at it? Up close and personal?

Fascinating.

Gunner

Gunner Asch wrote:
Are any of you onto this breaking story?

The Times of London is generally accepted as a credible
source:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...le3137695.ece?


Not really much new there. Also, it has come up many times that
incredibly highly classified info on modern bomb design has gotten
published in unclassifed journals by mistake. In at least one case,
DOE or FBI agents had to go around to a bunch of university and research
institute libraries and remove a particular issue of some physics
journal that had an article on centrifuge design, I think it was.
This has been going on for probably 40 years, now, and anyone who has
the resources to deeply scrutinize the Physics library at a major
university can probably learn nearly everything that is known by a major
nuclear weapons-possesing nation.

I work in the radiochemistry department at a major university, and I've
come across a few issues of journals that had stuff I couldn't BELIEVE
was totally unclassified, like one that was a field guide for
identifying US warheads after an accident. It had photos and complete
physics data on all the deployed US warheads! That wouldn't really help
you to build one, but could be REAL useful to a terrorist wanting to be
sure he stole the right container from the storerom.

Jon

What airhead or terrorist allowed or put that in. Might be a plant.
There are mistakes, but that kind of stuff is normally protected better.

Weird stuff happens, like when a certain R&D center published the keypad
concept for not only home phones but the extra set for trunk and stations...

That mistake into a company magazine - went to university libraries around
the country and soon the birth of the black and blue boxes that dialed
free long distance calls.

In the late 60's and early 70's those were a rave - and pay phones on college
campuses were taken out as they were simple targets. Now cell phones make it
easy enough to call away.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Jon Elson wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:
Are any of you onto this breaking story?

The Times of London is generally accepted as a credible
source:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...le3137695.ece?



Not really much new there. Also, it has come up many times that
incredibly highly classified info on modern bomb design has gotten
published in unclassifed journals by mistake. In at least one case,
DOE or FBI agents had to go around to a bunch of university and research
institute libraries and remove a particular issue of some physics
journal that had an article on centrifuge design, I think it was.
This has been going on for probably 40 years, now, and anyone who has
the resources to deeply scrutinize the Physics library at a major
university can probably learn nearly everything that is known by a major
nuclear weapons-possesing nation.

I work in the radiochemistry department at a major university, and I've
come across a few issues of journals that had stuff I couldn't BELIEVE
was totally unclassified, like one that was a field guide for
identifying US warheads after an accident. It had photos and complete
physics data on all the deployed US warheads! That wouldn't really help
you to build one, but could be REAL useful to a terrorist wanting to be
sure he stole the right container from the storerom.

Jon

Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
What airhead or terrorist allowed or put that in. Might be a plant.
There are mistakes, but that kind of stuff is normally protected better.

This was all WAY before 9/11, of course.
Weird stuff happens, like when a certain R&D center published the keypad
concept for not only home phones but the extra set for trunk and
stations...

Bell System Technical Journal, usually totally impenetrable
jargon-filled stuff on statistical modelling of phone system
traffic, but it had a complete and detailed description of STMF
or in-band signalling before the group 7 phone exchanges went
live and moved to out-of-band signalling. Nobody needed the
keypads, a guy I knew specifically used pieces of audio tape
with the right tones on them, and spliced the tape with the
right length to get the right timing. If caught, he carried a
strong magnet to erase the thing. Kind of "Mission Impossible".
There was a blind guy at MIT who could do it by whistling!
That mistake into a company magazine - went to university libraries around
the country and soon the birth of the black and blue boxes that dialed
free long distance calls.

it wasn't a mistake to put the info there, but it was a bit of a
mistake to underestimate the capability of the early teenage
hacker/anarchist crowd.
In the late 60's and early 70's those were a rave - and pay phones on
college
campuses were taken out as they were simple targets. Now cell phones
make it
easy enough to call away.
Did you know you could wire in a switch into the phone wire to
those old pay phones that would disable the "drop coins into
coin box" signal that was sent from the phone exchange when the
called party answered? I actually found one of these on a pay
phone at the university years ago.

Jon

Actually the detail of not the normal tones was ok it was the special
column. Kinda like my special rotary in the shop. 1-2..9-0-A...D.
That is a real old relic being a rotary. The magazine was recalled
but not all copies returned. Some libraries 'lost' theirs.

Actually companies like Mostek sold the tone generators that matched
normal keypads. Full data sheet and disclosure. Not the specials.
That was a custom chip. the normal one could be in experimental phones
or production phones.
Martin


Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Jon Elson wrote:
Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
What airhead or terrorist allowed or put that in. Might be a plant.
There are mistakes, but that kind of stuff is normally protected better.

This was all WAY before 9/11, of course.
Weird stuff happens, like when a certain R&D center published the keypad
concept for not only home phones but the extra set for trunk and
stations...

Bell System Technical Journal, usually totally impenetrable
jargon-filled stuff on statistical modelling of phone system traffic,
but it had a complete and detailed description of STMF or in-band
signalling before the group 7 phone exchanges went live and moved to
out-of-band signalling. Nobody needed the keypads, a guy I knew
specifically used pieces of audio tape with the right tones on them, and
spliced the tape with the right length to get the right timing. If
caught, he carried a strong magnet to erase the thing. Kind of "Mission
Impossible".
There was a blind guy at MIT who could do it by whistling!
That mistake into a company magazine - went to university libraries
around
the country and soon the birth of the black and blue boxes that dialed
free long distance calls.

it wasn't a mistake to put the info there, but it was a bit of a mistake
to underestimate the capability of the early teenage hacker/anarchist
crowd.
In the late 60's and early 70's those were a rave - and pay phones on
college
campuses were taken out as they were simple targets. Now cell phones
make it
easy enough to call away.
Did you know you could wire in a switch into the phone wire to those old
pay phones that would disable the "drop coins into coin box" signal that
was sent from the phone exchange when the called party answered? I
actually found one of these on a pay phone at the university years ago.

Jon

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 12:08:58 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:


Did you know you could wire in a switch into the phone wire to
those old pay phones that would disable the "drop coins into
coin box" signal that was sent from the phone exchange when the
called party answered? I actually found one of these on a pay
phone at the university years ago.

There was a low-tech way to do much the same on the old style black
pay phones. A small hole drilled in the right spot on the front of the
phone allowed one to manipulate the coin return mechanism with a paper
clip before the coins were sent to the box. The old phones were being
phased out in the early 70s, but quite a few of those left on college
campuses around Boston had that "feature."

--
Ned Simmons

Gunner Asch wrote:
Are any of you onto this breaking story?

The Times of London is generally accepted as a credible
source:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...le3137695.ece?

For a video, see this less credible source:
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12166

For more info, see:
http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff01072008.html

it suggests that living in one
of the 4 or 5 largest U.S. cities is a bit less safe than
one might suppose.

Metalworking content: Nuke building

Without knowing what "Deadly Nuclear Secrets"
are, it's impossible to know. There's no magic
to building a crude nuclear device. I read
somewhere that every country that has tried
to develop a nuclear weapon succeeded on the
first attempt. The only real leverage is through
control of weapons-grade material and political/
military pressure.

Jim Stewart wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:

Are any of you onto this breaking story?

The Times of London is generally accepted as a credible
source:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...le3137695.ece?


For a video, see this less credible source:
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12166

For more info, see:
http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff01072008.html

it suggests that living in one
of the 4 or 5 largest U.S. cities is a bit less safe than
one might suppose.

Metalworking content: Nuke building


Without knowing what "Deadly Nuclear Secrets"
are, it's impossible to know. There's no magic
to building a crude nuclear device. I read
somewhere that every country that has tried
to develop a nuclear weapon succeeded on the
first attempt. The only real leverage is through
control of weapons-grade material and political/
military pressure.

Well, the North Koreans seem to have had pretty poor success.
Rough guesstimates are that the Plutonium only boosted the yield
of the device by 5 - 10%, in other words the chamical high
explosive was 90 - 95% of the total explosion. That's
remarkably poor. Something apparently went REALLY wrong with
their bomb. Probably the symmetric compression of the plutonium
was bad, or the neutron trigger had poor timing.

This is assuming it was a basic device using relatively
unsophisticated explosives, like our first "Fat Man" devices.
In other words, a HELL of a lot of explosive for a tiny ball of
Pu. If they had something really sophisticated like our modern
missile warheads which use much less explosive to get the same
compression/implosion, then maybe it was a very sophisticated
low-yield, light-weight device. Since it took us 30 years with
practically unlimited resources and thousands of tests to get it
right, Occam's razor says "no way".


Jon