I was watching a TV show a few nights ago (Survivorman I think) where the
guy scrapes off some small pieces of magnesium from a block and then
proceeds to "light" it with a flint and steel... All to start a small camp
fire outside...

Which led me to another one of my "curiosity" questions...

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or I'm
semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of a
domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then a
small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Also, doesn't magnesium burn with a *really* bright flame - as in
eye-damaging?

Other dangers? Thoughts?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

On 2007-10-10, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
I was watching a TV show a few nights ago (Survivorman I think) where the
guy scrapes off some small pieces of magnesium from a block and then
proceeds to "light" it with a flint and steel... All to start a small camp
fire outside...

Which led me to another one of my "curiosity" questions...

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or I'm
semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of a
domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then a
small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Also, doesn't magnesium burn with a *really* bright flame - as in
eye-damaging?

They sell it at gun shows. I have a round piece of magnesium that I
used to turn with a lathe (for the two weeks when I had a lathe) top
make shavings.

I personally like kerosene for starting campfires. Works great every
time.

i

Joe AutoDrill wrote:

I was watching a TV show a few nights ago (Survivorman I think) where the
guy scrapes off some small pieces of magnesium from a block and then
proceeds to "light" it with a flint and steel... All to start a small camp
fire outside...

Which led me to another one of my "curiosity" questions...

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or I'm
semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of a
domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then a
small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Also, doesn't magnesium burn with a *really* bright flame - as in
eye-damaging?

Other dangers? Thoughts?

Old Volkswagen engine blocks were made from magnesium. I have a friend who has
the dubious honor of being the only guy in history to ever get banned from Alta
Lake State Park in eastern Washington. His misdemeanor? He brought a stripped VW
block and put it in his campfire to see what would happen. When it ignited, it
made an eyeball-searing blast of light that must have been most dramatic to
judge by the behavior of the local law enforcement officials. Yet it was done
legally - after all, everyone makes campfires and fireplaces are for flammable
substances. He didn't go to jail but he did get thrown out of that park and
banned for life. :-)

You could buy an old VW block ..

Grant

Old Volkswagen engine blocks were made from magnesium. I have a friend who
has the dubious honor of being the only guy in history to ever get banned
from Alta Lake State Park in eastern Washington. His misdemeanor? He
brought a stripped VW block and put it in his campfire to see what would
happen. When it ignited, it made an eyeball-searing blast of light that
must have been most dramatic to judge by the behavior of the local law
enforcement officials. Yet it was done legally - after all, everyone makes
campfires and fireplaces are for flammable substances. He didn't go to
jail but he did get thrown out of that park and banned for life. :-)

You could buy an old VW block ..

Grant

Man... WHY did you tell me this... I really didn't need to know this...
The temptation is HUGE...

So... Is the brightness damaging to the human eye? I've got a big public
meeting this weekend with the local police seargent and fire chief
attending... Could be fun.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

Joe AutoDrill wrote:
I was watching a TV show a few nights ago (Survivorman I think) where the
guy scrapes off some small pieces of magnesium from a block and then
proceeds to "light" it with a flint and steel... All to start a small camp
fire outside...

Which led me to another one of my "curiosity" questions...

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or I'm
semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of a
domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then a
small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Also, doesn't magnesium burn with a *really* bright flame - as in
eye-damaging?

Other dangers? Thoughts?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R




You can do it with any chunk of magnesium.

I have a couple old prts around, that I use for that.

The real advantage to the firestarter ones is that the "flint" is
attached.

They are no help at all, if you do not have them, though.


There is a technique to getting the correct shavings to use. Too
coarse, and they do not ignige very well at all. Good to have tried this
out in good conditions, so you have, at least, one less thing to figure
out by trial and error when it could kill you.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

Old Volkswagen engine blocks were made from magnesium. I have a friend who
has the dubious honor of being the only guy in history to ever get banned
from Alta Lake State Park in eastern Washington. His misdemeanor? He
brought a stripped VW block and put it in his campfire to see what would
happen. When it ignited, it made an eyeball-searing blast of light that
must have been most dramatic to judge by the behavior of the local law
enforcement officials. Yet it was done legally - after all, everyone makes
campfires and fireplaces are for flammable substances. He didn't go to
jail but he did get thrown out of that park and banned for life. :-)

You could buy an old VW block ..

Grant

When my VW hatchback caught on fire (highway) the fire department came out
and just watched. Well, they did play the water hose on the front end of
the car to keep the gas tank cool, but I was told that the engine will just
have to burn itself out. Water would not help on Volkswagens. Magnesium!!

Ivan Vegvary

Joe AutoDrill wrote:

I was watching a TV show a few nights ago (Survivorman I think) where the
guy scrapes off some small pieces of magnesium from a block and then
proceeds to "light" it with a flint and steel... All to start a small camp
fire outside...

Which led me to another one of my "curiosity" questions...

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or I'm
semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of a
domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then a
small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Also, doesn't magnesium burn with a *really* bright flame - as in
eye-damaging?

Other dangers? Thoughts?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

Those fire starter blocks are available at most camping / outdoors
stores. They have a flint type rod embedded in one side so you only need
a knife. Scrape some chips off the other side with the knife and then
use the flint side to ignite. Pretty cheap and work well. Really bright
and hot flame, but really brief fro a tiny pile of shavings, probably
equivalent to flashing yourself with a photo strobe.

We had magnesium "ribbon" back in high school... about 1/8 wide and
maybe 30' on a roll. You could just tear of a bunch of little pieces and
light them with a spark from a welding striker.
I see that United Nuclear still sells it, with this warning:
"Do not stare directly at burning Magnesium fires, they are extremely bright
and rich in UV light - Eye damage can result."

http://www.unitednuclear.com/chem.htm



"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Joe AutoDrill wrote:

I was watching a TV show a few nights ago (Survivorman I think) where the
guy scrapes off some small pieces of magnesium from a block and then
proceeds to "light" it with a flint and steel... All to start a small
camp
fire outside...

Which led me to another one of my "curiosity" questions...

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or
I'm
semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of a
domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then a
small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Also, doesn't magnesium burn with a *really* bright flame - as in
eye-damaging?

Other dangers? Thoughts?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

Those fire starter blocks are available at most camping / outdoors
stores. They have a flint type rod embedded in one side so you only need
a knife. Scrape some chips off the other side with the knife and then
use the flint side to ignite. Pretty cheap and work well. Really bright
and hot flame, but really brief fro a tiny pile of shavings, probably
equivalent to flashing yourself with a photo strobe.

"David Courtney" wrote in message
...
We had magnesium "ribbon" back in high school... about 1/8 wide and
maybe 30' on a roll. You could just tear of a bunch of little pieces and
light them with a spark from a welding striker.
I see that United Nuclear still sells it, with this warning:
"Do not stare directly at burning Magnesium fires, they are extremely
bright and rich in UV light - Eye damage can result."

http://www.unitednuclear.com/chem.htm

Oh man... I think I could easily get myself put on the FBI's watch list
with what I'd love to order and play with from that web site...
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote:

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or I'm
semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of a
domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then a
small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Check the camping section of walmart. I bought one there a few years ago.

Wes

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
news:q26Pi.9135$C2.4615@trnddc02...
I was watching a TV show a few nights ago (Survivorman I think) where the
guy scrapes off some small pieces of magnesium from a block and then
proceeds to "light" it with a flint and steel... All to start a small
camp
fire outside...

Which led me to another one of my "curiosity" questions...

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or
I'm
semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of a
domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then a
small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Also, doesn't magnesium burn with a *really* bright flame - as in
eye-damaging?

Other dangers? Thoughts?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rogZBXNqaMo

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...&search=Search

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rogZBXNqaMo

Now that's what I want to do... In the middle of a field this weekend.

Looks like they used powdered magnesium or chips. I doubt that was a VW
engine block.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

Joe AutoDrill writes:

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it
or I'm semi-blind), can I do the same thing?

Sure. I've done it scraping the tubular handle of a lightweight magnesium
landscaping rake. Odd chunks are on eBay all the time. I have 1/8"
magnesium welding rods from aerospace surplus.

I'm skeptical of the engine block tales. Large pieces don't ignite since
they have little surface area. The 1/8" welding rods self-extinguish if
you light them. They'll only maintain burning if you hammer them into a
flatter ribbon shape. And weren't the engine blocks an Mg-Al alloy?

Ivan Vegvary wrote:

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

Old Volkswagen engine blocks were made from magnesium. I have a friend who
has the dubious honor of being the only guy in history to ever get banned
from Alta Lake State Park in eastern Washington. His misdemeanor? He
brought a stripped VW block and put it in his campfire to see what would
happen. When it ignited, it made an eyeball-searing blast of light that
must have been most dramatic to judge by the behavior of the local law
enforcement officials. Yet it was done legally - after all, everyone makes
campfires and fireplaces are for flammable substances. He didn't go to
jail but he did get thrown out of that park and banned for life. :-)

You could buy an old VW block ..

Grant

When my VW hatchback caught on fire (highway) the fire department came out
and just watched. Well, they did play the water hose on the front end of
the car to keep the gas tank cool, but I was told that the engine will just
have to burn itself out. Water would not help on Volkswagens. Magnesium!!

Ivan Vegvary

If a magnesium engine block actually did get going, water on the other
end of the car wouldn't keep the gas tank from going up too.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Joe AutoDrill writes:

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it
or I'm semi-blind), can I do the same thing?

Sure. I've done it scraping the tubular handle of a lightweight magnesium
landscaping rake. Odd chunks are on eBay all the time. I have 1/8"
magnesium welding rods from aerospace surplus.

I'm skeptical of the engine block tales. Large pieces don't ignite since
they have little surface area. The 1/8" welding rods self-extinguish if
you light them. They'll only maintain burning if you hammer them into a
flatter ribbon shape. And weren't the engine blocks an Mg-Al alloy?


Hi Richard

The VW engine blocks are made from an alloy of aluminum and magnisium,
probably other components too. The actual alloy has varied over the years.
A good way to get a complete case half to ignite is to put it in a burning
tire (or two).
I strongly recommend doing that outside. The blaze from even half a VW
case burning is something that will get your attention, even from far away.

Jerry

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
news:q26Pi.9135$C2.4615@trnddc02...
I was watching a TV show a few nights ago (Survivorman I think) where the
guy scrapes off some small pieces of magnesium from a block and then
proceeds to "light" it with a flint and steel... All to start a small camp
fire outside...

Which led me to another one of my "curiosity" questions...

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or
I'm semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of
a domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then
a small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Also, doesn't magnesium burn with a *really* bright flame - as in
eye-damaging?

Other dangers? Thoughts?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R




Outdoor stores sell magnesium fire starter kits in the camping section.

Steve R.



--
Reply address munged to bugger up spammers

You could buy an old VW block ..

Grant


Check around the local VW shops. I've gotten busted blocks for hauling them
away.
VW blocks are not even close to pure magnesium. Lots of aluminum in them.
Shavings from milling VW blocks will burn, and you can get a block lit by
tossing it in the
middle of a big bonfire. Once it gets going you can get some pretty good
light bursts off of it
by putting a stream of water on it with a garden hose.

You want something spectacular, take a walnut size chunk of metallic sodium
and toss
it in a big puddle at night. Takes a bit for it to get to critical heat,
but when it goes
you want to be standing back a ways.

Bill

Pete C. wrote:

Ivan Vegvary wrote:

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...


Old Volkswagen engine blocks were made from magnesium. I have a friend who
has the dubious honor of being the only guy in history to ever get banned
from Alta Lake State Park in eastern Washington. His misdemeanor? He
brought a stripped VW block and put it in his campfire to see what would
happen. When it ignited, it made an eyeball-searing blast of light that
must have been most dramatic to judge by the behavior of the local law
enforcement officials. Yet it was done legally - after all, everyone makes
campfires and fireplaces are for flammable substances. He didn't go to
jail but he did get thrown out of that park and banned for life. :-)

You could buy an old VW block ..

Grant

When my VW hatchback caught on fire (highway) the fire department came out
and just watched. Well, they did play the water hose on the front end of
the car to keep the gas tank cool, but I was told that the engine will just
have to burn itself out. Water would not help on Volkswagens. Magnesium!!

Ivan Vegvary


If a magnesium engine block actually did get going, water on the other
end of the car wouldn't keep the gas tank from going up too.


You have been watching too many movies.

A gas tank goes whoof.

No big fireball or anything like in the movies...

Grant Erwin wrote:
Old Volkswagen engine blocks were made from magnesium. I have a friend
who has the dubious honor of being the only guy in history to ever get
banned from Alta Lake State Park in eastern Washington. His misdemeanor?
He brought a stripped VW block and put it in his campfire to see what
would happen. When it ignited, it made an eyeball-searing blast of light
that must have been most dramatic to judge by the behavior of the local
law enforcement officials. Yet it was done legally - after all, everyone
makes campfires and fireplaces are for flammable substances. He didn't
go to jail but he did get thrown out of that park and banned for life. :-)
Umm, yes, I saw a VW Microbus on fire some years ago, and after
parking a safe distance away, I walked back, arriving about the
same time as a bunch of fire engines. The firemen stood around,
watching it burn, and getting out a few hoses. Somebody asked
me why they weren't putting it out, and I told them the engine
block or transmission (I didn't know which) was magnesium, and
it can cause an "explosion" if you put water on burning
magnesium. Eventually, another department rolled up with a 5
gallon bromine foam canister, and one guy sprayed the foam on
the engine while the other guys kept him doused. When the foam
ran out, the other two guys hit the engine full blast with two
booster hoses. There was a HUGE blue-white flash, totally
amazing, and a bunch of glowing metal crashed to the ground,
leaving big craters in the pavement. Once the magnesium was
cooled off, the rest of the fire was put out in about 3 seconds.

I'm not sure what would have happened if they sprayed water on
the engine without the foam first, but it probably would have
been even more spectacular.

A friend of mine tried this with a little powdered magnesium in
his dorm room a longer time ago, and then splashed some water on
it. he ended up paying for new floor tile in the room.

Jon

Richard J Kinch wrote:
Joe AutoDrill writes:


If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it
or I'm semi-blind), can I do the same thing?


Sure. I've done it scraping the tubular handle of a lightweight magnesium
landscaping rake. Odd chunks are on eBay all the time. I have 1/8"
magnesium welding rods from aerospace surplus.

I'm skeptical of the engine block tales. Large pieces don't ignite since
they have little surface area. The 1/8" welding rods self-extinguish if
you light them. They'll only maintain burning if you hammer them into a
flatter ribbon shape. And weren't the engine blocks an Mg-Al alloy?

Well, it takes a good fire to get it started. A small
electrical spark can't possibly do it, but a welding arc will.
VW Microbusses had the gas tank RIGHT NEXT to the engine,
between the firewall and the cooling air plenum. A little,
crumbly rubber hose to the carburetor. If that hose breaks, it
sprays gasoline by gravity feed right onto the exhaust manifold.
Pour gas on the manifold, then vapor goes into the generator
brushes, and FOOM! Now, you've got the engine sitting a foot
over a giant gas fire, as the tank empties itself into a great
big pool of burning gas. That will get the crankcase lit in
about 4-5 minutes, if there's enough gas to keep it burning that
long.

I definitely saw one do this once, and it was sputtering white
hot bits of magnesium onto the pavement before the fire dept
foamed it, so no question the crankcase had gotten lit. Then
they hit it with water right after the foam, and it was like the
4th of july ground display making the flag in burning sparks or
something.

Jon

Steve R. wrote:
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
news:q26Pi.9135$C2.4615@trnddc02...
I was watching a TV show a few nights ago (Survivorman I think) where the
guy scrapes off some small pieces of magnesium from a block and then
proceeds to "light" it with a flint and steel... All to start a small camp
fire outside...

Which led me to another one of my "curiosity" questions...

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or
I'm semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of
a domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then
a small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Also, doesn't magnesium burn with a *really* bright flame - as in
eye-damaging?

Other dangers? Thoughts?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R




Outdoor stores sell magnesium fire starter kits in the camping section.

Steve R.



Back in my skydiving days we would have nasty winter weather where we
couldnt jump, but we always had a campfire for the weekend. One of the
guys worked offshore and would bring back large bars of magnesium. Seems
that they use a lot of them as sacrificial anodes (cathodes?) whatever.
We would throw these blocks into the fire. You had to stir them around
to get any good effects. But we always had suntans on monday, so there
is a lot of uv coming off of them.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:54:35 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

Joe AutoDrill wrote:
I was watching a TV show a few nights ago (Survivorman I think) where the
guy scrapes off some small pieces of magnesium from a block and then
proceeds to "light" it with a flint and steel... All to start a small camp
fire outside...

Which led me to another one of my "curiosity" questions...

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or I'm
semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of a
domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then a
small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Also, doesn't magnesium burn with a *really* bright flame - as in
eye-damaging?

Other dangers? Thoughts?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R




You can do it with any chunk of magnesium.

I have a couple old prts around, that I use for that.

The real advantage to the firestarter ones is that the "flint" is
attached.

They are no help at all, if you do not have them, though.


There is a technique to getting the correct shavings to use. Too
coarse, and they do not ignige very well at all. Good to have tried this
out in good conditions, so you have, at least, one less thing to figure
out by trial and error when it could kill you.

Cheers
Trevor Jones


Best shaving/sparking tool is the back of a piece of hacksaw.

These are very common survivalist tools. i must have 6 or 8 of them
tucked away here and there.

On the other hand...one of those small butane torches works faster and
better unless you are in sub zero temps. So do regular propane
torches, particularly when all the available tinder is wet and your
hands are so cold you can barely hold the striker of a metal match.

Somone mentioned kersosene. Works ok. On the other hand..some cotton
balls soaked in vasoline and kept in a 35mm film can, work quite well
too and wont leak into your Cheetos.

and...

http://www.equipped.com/firestrt.htm


Gunner

cavelamb himself wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Ivan Vegvary wrote:

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...


Old Volkswagen engine blocks were made from magnesium. I have a friend who
has the dubious honor of being the only guy in history to ever get banned
from Alta Lake State Park in eastern Washington. His misdemeanor? He
brought a stripped VW block and put it in his campfire to see what would
happen. When it ignited, it made an eyeball-searing blast of light that
must have been most dramatic to judge by the behavior of the local law
enforcement officials. Yet it was done legally - after all, everyone makes
campfires and fireplaces are for flammable substances. He didn't go to
jail but he did get thrown out of that park and banned for life. :-)

You could buy an old VW block ..

Grant

When my VW hatchback caught on fire (highway) the fire department came out
and just watched. Well, they did play the water hose on the front end of
the car to keep the gas tank cool, but I was told that the engine will just
have to burn itself out. Water would not help on Volkswagens. Magnesium!!

Ivan Vegvary


If a magnesium engine block actually did get going, water on the other
end of the car wouldn't keep the gas tank from going up too.

You have been watching too many movies.

A gas tank goes whoof.

No big fireball or anything like in the movies...

The big fireball would be from the 5,000 degree magnesium fire and that
heat would vaporize the gas rather quickly, adding to the fireball.
Still doubtful that a magnesium block would actually get going though.

My brothers did.Since you couldn't put it out he took pictures of it
burning. Rubber fuel line was designed so that if it cracks it gravity
feeds gas onto the engine. A nice puddle of gas on and under the
engine waiting for an ignition source. Gas tank didn't explode it just
poured gas into the burning block.

Karl


On Oct 11, 12:11 am, "Pete C." wrote:
cavelamb himself wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Ivan Vegvary wrote:

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

Old Volkswagen engine blocks were made from magnesium. I have a friend who
has the dubious honor of being the only guy in history to ever get banned
from Alta Lake State Park in eastern Washington. His misdemeanor? He
brought a stripped VW block and put it in his campfire to see what would
happen. When it ignited, it made an eyeball-searing blast of light that
must have been most dramatic to judge by the behavior of the local law
enforcement officials. Yet it was done legally - after all, everyone makes
campfires and fireplaces are for flammable substances. He didn't go to
jail but he did get thrown out of that park and banned for life. :-)

You could buy an old VW block ..

Grant

When my VW hatchback caught on fire (highway) the fire department came out
and just watched. Well, they did play the water hose on the front end of
the car to keep the gas tank cool, but I was told that the engine will just
have to burn itself out. Water would not help on Volkswagens. Magnesium!!

Ivan Vegvary

If a magnesium engine block actually did get going, water on the other
end of the car wouldn't keep the gas tank from going up too.

You have been watching too many movies.

A gas tank goes whoof.

No big fireball or anything like in the movies...

The big fireball would be from the 5,000 degree magnesium fire and that
heat would vaporize the gas rather quickly, adding to the fireball.
Still doubtful that a magnesium block would actually get going though.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Gunner
I've got a P-38 can opener on mine. Is the hacksaw blade better for
throwing sparks? Does bimetalic or HSS matter?
Thanks
Karl

On Oct 10, 7:36 pm, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:54:35 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:





Joe AutoDrill wrote:
I was watching a TV show a few nights ago (Survivorman I think) where the
guy scrapes off some small pieces of magnesium from a block and then
proceeds to "light" it with a flint and steel... All to start a small camp
fire outside...

Which led me to another one of my "curiosity" questions...

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or I'm
semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of a
domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then a
small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Also, doesn't magnesium burn with a *really* bright flame - as in
eye-damaging?

Other dangers? Thoughts?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

You can do it with any chunk of magnesium.

I have a couple old prts around, that I use for that.

The real advantage to the firestarter ones is that the "flint" is
attached.

They are no help at all, if you do not have them, though.

There is a technique to getting the correct shavings to use. Too
coarse, and they do not ignige very well at all. Good to have tried this
out in good conditions, so you have, at least, one less thing to figure
out by trial and error when it could kill you.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Best shaving/sparking tool is the back of a piece of hacksaw.

These are very common survivalist tools. i must have 6 or 8 of them
tucked away here and there.

On the other hand...one of those small butane torches works faster and
better unless you are in sub zero temps. So do regular propane
torches, particularly when all the available tinder is wet and your
hands are so cold you can barely hold the striker of a metal match.

Somone mentioned kersosene. Works ok. On the other hand..some cotton
balls soaked in vasoline and kept in a 35mm film can, work quite well
too and wont leak into your Cheetos.

and...

http://www.equipped.com/firestrt.htm

Gunner- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:51:13 -0000, "
wrote:

Gunner
I've got a P-38 can opener on mine. Is the hacksaw blade better for
throwing sparks? Does bimetalic or HSS matter?
Thanks
Karl

In my experience..yes the hacksaw blade is better. Ive not bothered
testing which works best.bimetal or HSS.

Gunner


On Oct 10, 7:36 pm, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:54:35 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:





Joe AutoDrill wrote:
I was watching a TV show a few nights ago (Survivorman I think) where the
guy scrapes off some small pieces of magnesium from a block and then
proceeds to "light" it with a flint and steel... All to start a small camp
fire outside...

Which led me to another one of my "curiosity" questions...

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or I'm
semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of a
domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then a
small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Also, doesn't magnesium burn with a *really* bright flame - as in
eye-damaging?

Other dangers? Thoughts?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

You can do it with any chunk of magnesium.

I have a couple old prts around, that I use for that.

The real advantage to the firestarter ones is that the "flint" is
attached.

They are no help at all, if you do not have them, though.

There is a technique to getting the correct shavings to use. Too
coarse, and they do not ignige very well at all. Good to have tried this
out in good conditions, so you have, at least, one less thing to figure
out by trial and error when it could kill you.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Best shaving/sparking tool is the back of a piece of hacksaw.

These are very common survivalist tools. i must have 6 or 8 of them
tucked away here and there.

On the other hand...one of those small butane torches works faster and
better unless you are in sub zero temps. So do regular propane
torches, particularly when all the available tinder is wet and your
hands are so cold you can barely hold the striker of a metal match.

Somone mentioned kersosene. Works ok. On the other hand..some cotton
balls soaked in vasoline and kept in a 35mm film can, work quite well
too and wont leak into your Cheetos.

and...

http://www.equipped.com/firestrt.htm

Gunner- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:44:09 -0000, "
wrote:

My brothers did.Since you couldn't put it out he took pictures of it
burning. Rubber fuel line was designed so that if it cracks it gravity
feeds gas onto the engine. A nice puddle of gas on and under the
engine waiting for an ignition source. Gas tank didn't explode it just
poured gas into the burning block.

Remember, folks: VW blocks are a magnesium aluminum alloy - NOT
pure magnesium. Won't light easily by itself, but once it gets going
you really need to work at putting it out.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:39:14 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

Richard J Kinch wrote:
Joe AutoDrill writes:


If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it
or I'm semi-blind), can I do the same thing?


Sure. I've done it scraping the tubular handle of a lightweight magnesium
landscaping rake. Odd chunks are on eBay all the time. I have 1/8"
magnesium welding rods from aerospace surplus.

I'm skeptical of the engine block tales. Large pieces don't ignite since
they have little surface area. The 1/8" welding rods self-extinguish if
you light them. They'll only maintain burning if you hammer them into a
flatter ribbon shape. And weren't the engine blocks an Mg-Al alloy?

Well, it takes a good fire to get it started. A small
electrical spark can't possibly do it, but a welding arc will.
VW Microbusses had the gas tank RIGHT NEXT to the engine,
between the firewall and the cooling air plenum. A little,
crumbly rubber hose to the carburetor. If that hose breaks, it
sprays gasoline by gravity feed right onto the exhaust manifold.
Pour gas on the manifold, then vapor goes into the generator
brushes, and FOOM! Now, you've got the engine sitting a foot
over a giant gas fire, as the tank empties itself into a great
big pool of burning gas. That will get the crankcase lit in
about 4-5 minutes, if there's enough gas to keep it burning that
long.

I definitely saw one do this once, and it was sputtering white
hot bits of magnesium onto the pavement before the fire dept
foamed it, so no question the crankcase had gotten lit. Then
they hit it with water right after the foam, and it was like the
4th of july ground display making the flag in burning sparks or
something.

Jon
Several years ago I worked at a place where we once had a lot of mag
chips to get rid of and the scrap dealer wouldn't take them. I
suggested burning some. We filled a cardboard box full and set it on a
5 gallon bucket full of water. The chips were burning for several
minutes and had not yet melted through. The shop skeptic groused that
nothing would happen, that I was full of ****. Just then the molten
burning mag fell into the bucket. The skeptic says" MY EYES!". Flames
and white ash abound. We found another way to get rid of the rest.
ERS

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 22:27:19 -0500, cavelamb himself wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
Ivan Vegvary wrote:
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message

Old Volkswagen engine blocks were made from magnesium. I have a friend who
has the dubious honor of being the only guy in history to ever get banned
from Alta Lake State Park in eastern Washington. His misdemeanor? He
brought a stripped VW block and put it in his campfire to see what would
happen. When it ignited, it made an eyeball-searing blast of light that
must have been most dramatic to judge by the behavior of the local law
enforcement officials. Yet it was done legally - after all, everyone makes
campfires and fireplaces are for flammable substances. He didn't go to
jail but he did get thrown out of that park and banned for life. :-)

You could buy an old VW block ..

When my VW hatchback caught on fire (highway) the fire department came out
and just watched. Well, they did play the water hose on the front end of
the car to keep the gas tank cool, but I was told that the engine will just
have to burn itself out. Water would not help on Volkswagens. Magnesium!!

If a magnesium engine block actually did get going, water on the other
end of the car wouldn't keep the gas tank from going up too.

You have been watching too many movies.

A gas tank goes whoof.

No big fireball or anything like in the movies...

I saw an ordinary pickup truck burning once - when the tank went up, it
was eerily quiet - a great big greasy sooty fireball went up, about as
loud as waving your hand past your ear. ;-) But by this time, I think
that most of the gas was already on the ground, so it wasn't constrained
at all, and it might have been diesel.

Cheers!
Rich

Ok. I'll snap off a piece of hacksaw and give it a try.
Thanks
Karl

On Oct 11, 6:23 am, Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:51:13 -0000, "

wrote:
Gunner
I've got a P-38 can opener on mine. Is the hacksaw blade better for
throwing sparks? Does bimetalic or HSS matter?
Thanks
Karl

In my experience..yes the hacksaw blade is better. Ive not bothered
testing which works best.bimetal or HSS.

Gunner





On Oct 10, 7:36 pm, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:54:35 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

Joe AutoDrill wrote:
I was watching a TV show a few nights ago (Survivorman I think) where the
guy scrapes off some small pieces of magnesium from a block and then
proceeds to "light" it with a flint and steel... All to start a small camp
fire outside...

Which led me to another one of my "curiosity" questions...

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or I'm
semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of a
domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then a
small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Also, doesn't magnesium burn with a *really* bright flame - as in
eye-damaging?

Other dangers? Thoughts?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

You can do it with any chunk of magnesium.

I have a couple old prts around, that I use for that.

The real advantage to the firestarter ones is that the "flint" is
attached.

They are no help at all, if you do not have them, though.

There is a technique to getting the correct shavings to use. Too
coarse, and they do not ignige very well at all. Good to have tried this
out in good conditions, so you have, at least, one less thing to figure
out by trial and error when it could kill you.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Best shaving/sparking tool is the back of a piece of hacksaw.

These are very common survivalist tools. i must have 6 or 8 of them
tucked away here and there.

On the other hand...one of those small butane torches works faster and
better unless you are in sub zero temps. So do regular propane
torches, particularly when all the available tinder is wet and your
hands are so cold you can barely hold the striker of a metal match.

Somone mentioned kersosene. Works ok. On the other hand..some cotton
balls soaked in vasoline and kept in a 35mm film can, work quite well
too and wont leak into your Cheetos.

and...

http://www.equipped.com/firestrt.htm

Gunner- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Oct 10, 12:18 pm, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Joe AutoDrill writes:
If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it
or I'm semi-blind), can I do the same thing?

Sure. I've done it scraping the tubular handle of a lightweight magnesium
landscaping rake. Odd chunks are on eBay all the time. I have 1/8"
magnesium welding rods from aerospace surplus.

I'm skeptical of the engine block tales. Large pieces don't ignite since
they have little surface area. The 1/8" welding rods self-extinguish if
you light them. They'll only maintain burning if you hammer them into a
flatter ribbon shape. And weren't the engine blocks an Mg-Al alloy?

I've had friends V.W.s go up from not having enough oil in the engine.
It wasn't common, but also not unusual, in L.A./Orange County (So.
Cal.), to drive by burning V.W. on the freeway, with the fire
department just standing around watching it go. I'd see them, I don't
know, maybe once a year or two when I was younger. It's rare to see it
now, though.

On Oct 10, 12:18 pm, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Joe AutoDrill writes:
If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it
or I'm semi-blind), can I do the same thing?

Sure. I've done it scraping the tubular handle of a lightweight magnesium
landscaping rake. Odd chunks are on eBay all the time. I have 1/8"
magnesium welding rods from aerospace surplus.

I'm skeptical of the engine block tales. Large pieces don't ignite since
they have little surface area. The 1/8" welding rods self-extinguish if
you light them. They'll only maintain burning if you hammer them into a
flatter ribbon shape. And weren't the engine blocks an Mg-Al alloy?



I've had friends V.W.s go up from not having enough oil in the engine.
It wasn't common, but also not unusual, in L.A./Orange County (So.
Cal.), to drive by burning V.W. on the freeway, with the fire
department just standing around watching it go. I'd see them, I don't
know, maybe once a year or two when I was younger. It's rare to see it
now, though.

On Oct 10, 4:51 pm, "Steve R." wrote:
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message

news:q26Pi.9135$C2.4615@trnddc02...



I was watching a TV show a few nights ago (Survivorman I think) where the
guy scrapes off some small pieces of magnesium from a block and then
proceeds to "light" it with a flint and steel... All to start a small camp
fire outside...

Which led me to another one of my "curiosity" questions...

If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it or
I'm semi-blind), can I do the same thing? A small block about the size of
a domino for scraping small pieces off with a pocket knife blade... Then
a small flint or other flame source to start the magnesium burning...

Also, doesn't magnesium burn with a *really* bright flame - as in
eye-damaging?

Other dangers? Thoughts?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

Outdoor stores sell magnesium fire starter kits in the camping section.

Steve R.

--
Reply address munged to bugger up spammers
You can also get them at WalMart for about $8.

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:03:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

On Oct 10, 12:18 pm, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Joe AutoDrill writes:
If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it
or I'm semi-blind), can I do the same thing?

Sure. I've done it scraping the tubular handle of a lightweight magnesium
landscaping rake. Odd chunks are on eBay all the time. I have 1/8"
magnesium welding rods from aerospace surplus.

I'm skeptical of the engine block tales. Large pieces don't ignite since
they have little surface area. The 1/8" welding rods self-extinguish if
you light them. They'll only maintain burning if you hammer them into a
flatter ribbon shape. And weren't the engine blocks an Mg-Al alloy?



I've had friends V.W.s go up from not having enough oil in the engine.
It wasn't common, but also not unusual, in L.A./Orange County (So.
Cal.), to drive by burning V.W. on the freeway, with the fire
department just standing around watching it go. I'd see them, I don't
know, maybe once a year or two when I was younger. It's rare to see it
now, though.

Yeah, I always wondered why Nader went after the Corvair instead of
the always-in-flames VWs with the same flaky suspension problems. And
I'm surprised that VWs were insurable with as many as I saw smoked.

--
Reading well is one of the great pleasures that solitude can afford you.
-- Harold Bloom, O Magazine, April 2003

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:42:29 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:03:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

On Oct 10, 12:18 pm, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Joe AutoDrill writes:
If I buy magnesium from somewhere (McMaster doesn't seem to carry it
or I'm semi-blind), can I do the same thing?

Sure. I've done it scraping the tubular handle of a lightweight magnesium
landscaping rake. Odd chunks are on eBay all the time. I have 1/8"
magnesium welding rods from aerospace surplus.

I'm skeptical of the engine block tales. Large pieces don't ignite since
they have little surface area. The 1/8" welding rods self-extinguish if
you light them. They'll only maintain burning if you hammer them into a
flatter ribbon shape. And weren't the engine blocks an Mg-Al alloy?



I've had friends V.W.s go up from not having enough oil in the engine.
It wasn't common, but also not unusual, in L.A./Orange County (So.
Cal.), to drive by burning V.W. on the freeway, with the fire
department just standing around watching it go. I'd see them, I don't
know, maybe once a year or two when I was younger. It's rare to see it
now, though.

Yeah, I always wondered why Nader went after the Corvair instead of
the always-in-flames VWs with the same flaky suspension problems. And
I'm surprised that VWs were insurable with as many as I saw smoked.


He did go after them and (I believe) Road and Track published a
rebuttal citing every instance of Nader using partial quotes from
accident report to support his claims, the false statistics he used to
support his claim and in all but words called him a liar and a fake.

As Nader never sued or otherwise attacked Road and Track I'm inclined
to believe the R&T article over Nader's article.


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

BillM wrote:
You could buy an old VW block ..

Grant


Check around the local VW shops. I've gotten busted blocks for hauling them
away.
VW blocks are not even close to pure magnesium. Lots of aluminum in them.
Shavings from milling VW blocks will burn, and you can get a block lit by
tossing it in the
middle of a big bonfire. Once it gets going you can get some pretty good
light bursts off of it
by putting a stream of water on it with a garden hose.

You want something spectacular, take a walnut size chunk of metallic sodium
and toss
it in a big puddle at night. Takes a bit for it to get to critical heat,
but when it goes
you want to be standing back a ways.

Bill




Students from my alma mater were the press and public's targets of blame
for a sodium incident which injured several people last month:

http://tinyurl.com/2nsvhc

Frankly, I'd rather believe that sodium wasn't dropped on the ground
there by students from MIT. The cardinal rule of "hacking" at that
school is to never do anything dangerous or to damage anyone's property.

Videos he

http://tinyurl.com/36yhuo

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.