Well, the 4 1/2 MT to 5C adaptor came in today. Now I need to make a draw
tube when I get the lathe together after completing varidrive repairs.

The ideal solution would be something 1 3/8 od with enough meat in the ID to
thread for thread for the 5C shank.

I found this but cheaper solutions would be welcome.

http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/PS...MMainWidth=995


Thanks,

Wes

Wes wrote:

I found this but cheaper solutions would be welcome.

Just get some simple precision drawn seamless tube. They all will be strong
enough and easy enough to machine.
Material here would be St 35 BK (or 1.0308 or E 235). Strength is 350 to 380
N/mm^2 or 350 MPa.


Nick

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:27:50 -0400, Wes wrote:

Well, the 4 1/2 MT to 5C adaptor came in today. Now I need to make a draw
tube when I get the lathe together after completing varidrive repairs.

The ideal solution would be something 1 3/8 od with enough meat in the ID to
thread for thread for the 5C shank.

I found this but cheaper solutions would be welcome.

http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/PS...MMainWidth=995


Thanks,

Wes

I repaired a number of 5C drawbars using 4130 tubing from Aircraft
Spruce and Specialty. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/

1.375 OD and i don't remember exactly what ID I ordered but .090 wall
thickness comes to mind.

When you measure a 5C collet you will find that the OD is 1.235 and 20
threads per inch. I looked high and low for a 1.250 x 20 tap to no
avail. Finally i called MSC and talked to a fellow there. He made a
call to South Bend and in a three way conversation I learned that S.B.
made the threads 1.250 x 20. Standard tap in slightly $$.

Errol Groff

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:32:05 -0400, Errol Groff
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:27:50 -0400, Wes wrote:

snip
Wes

I repaired a number of 5C drawbars using 4130 tubing from Aircraft
Spruce and Specialty. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/

1.375 OD and i don't remember exactly what ID I ordered but .090 wall
thickness comes to mind.

When you measure a 5C collet you will find that the OD is 1.235 and 20
threads per inch. I looked high and low for a 1.250 x 20 tap to no
avail. Finally i called MSC and talked to a fellow there. He made a
call to South Bend and in a three way conversation I learned that S.B.
made the threads 1.250 x 20. Standard tap in slightly $$.

Errol Groff


I used 4130 as well for my 5C drawbar. That was my first lathe
project, first inside threading, first tapers. Works great. I didn't
even think of looking for a tap. It single pointed o.k. with lots of
lube.

Pete Keillor

Errol Groff wrote:

I repaired a number of 5C drawbars using 4130 tubing from Aircraft
Spruce and Specialty. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/


That will work, they sell it by the foot which is much better than buying 6
feet of it, the majority of which I'll never use. I'll be single pointing
it, I have the bar and indexable insert for threading id's.

thanks,
Wes

According to Wes :
Errol Groff wrote:

I repaired a number of 5C drawbars using 4130 tubing from Aircraft
Spruce and Specialty. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/


That will work, they sell it by the foot which is much better than buying 6
feet of it, the majority of which I'll never use. I'll be single pointing
it, I have the bar and indexable insert for threading id's.

I changed the spindle in my 12x24" Clausing from 2-1/4x8
threaded to L-00. The L-00 is a bit longer, so I had to extend the
drawtube. I simply turned it from 12L14 (IIRC) to thread into the
existing drawtube and to accept the collet. The extension is Loctited
into the original drawtube, and has served me well for years now.

Try *all* of your collet-threaded devices just in case one of
them is slightly oversized -- *before* you unchuck it. DAMHIKT. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

That will work, they sell it by the foot which is much better than buying 6
feet of it, the majority of which I'll never use. I'll be single pointing
it, I have the bar and indexable insert for threading id's.

I changed the spindle in my 12x24" Clausing from 2-1/4x8
threaded to L-00. The L-00 is a bit longer, so I had to extend the
drawtube. I simply turned it from 12L14 (IIRC) to thread into the
existing drawtube and to accept the collet. The extension is Loctited
into the original drawtube, and has served me well for years now.

12L14 is fun to turn. We run a lot of 7/8 to 1 1/4 inch 12L14 where I work
on a Index G200 bar feeding twin turret, spindle / counter spindle machine
with an internal unloader system.

I would not buy a machine with a screw chuck spindle. I've used two of them
and hated them with a passion. Not to insult those that have them. Any
lathe is better than no lathe and with an independent chuck the issue is
moot but slow as heck.


Try *all* of your collet-threaded devices just in case one of
them is slightly oversized -- *before* you unchuck it. DAMHIKT. :-)

So far I have no collets. I may turn this at work at lunch where I can
present Hardinge, Buck, Royal, and other brands to it before I call it
done.

Wes

According to Wes :
(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

That will work, they sell it by the foot which is much better than buying 6
feet of it, the majority of which I'll never use. I'll be single pointing
it, I have the bar and indexable insert for threading id's.

I changed the spindle in my 12x24" Clausing from 2-1/4x8
threaded to L-00. The L-00 is a bit longer, so I had to extend the
drawtube. I simply turned it from 12L14 (IIRC) to thread into the
existing drawtube and to accept the collet. The extension is Loctited
into the original drawtube, and has served me well for years now.

12L14 is fun to turn. We run a lot of 7/8 to 1 1/4 inch 12L14 where I work
on a Index G200 bar feeding twin turret, spindle / counter spindle machine
with an internal unloader system.

I would not buy a machine with a screw chuck spindle. I've used two of them
and hated them with a passion.

The lathe was a good lathe at a pretty good price on eBay
(auction closed Christmas eve, FWIW, so there were not many bidders).
But I agree about the threaded spindle, which is why I kept my eyes open
for an alternative Clausing spindle to swap in later.

Not to insult those that have them. Any
lathe is better than no lathe and with an independent chuck the issue is
moot but slow as heck.


Try *all* of your collet-threaded devices just in case one of
them is slightly oversized -- *before* you unchuck it. DAMHIKT. :-)

So far I have no collets. I may turn this at work at lunch where I can
present Hardinge, Buck, Royal, and other brands to it before I call it
done.

In particular, check import collets. All that you have
mentioned above are good ones which will be made to good standards. My
offending one was an import 4" 3-jaw chuck on a C5 shank from a later
eBay auction.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Aug 15, 4:11 pm, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:
....
In particular, check import collets. All that you have
mentioned above are good ones which will be made to good standards. My
offending one was an import 4" 3-jaw chuck on a C5 shank from a later
eBay auction.

Enjoy,
DoN.
....

I've milled the slot deeper to make several Enco and other inexpensive
5C collets fit my index fixture, after confirming that the slot wasn't
hardened with a riffler file. They worked fine in the lathe in an old
collet adapter that's had its pin sheared off.
Jim Wilkins

According to Jim Wilkins :
On Aug 15, 4:11 pm, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:
...
In particular, check import collets. All that you have
mentioned above are good ones which will be made to good standards. My
offending one was an import 4" 3-jaw chuck on a C5 shank from a later
eBay auction.

[ ... ]

I've milled the slot deeper to make several Enco and other inexpensive
5C collets fit my index fixture, after confirming that the slot wasn't
hardened with a riffler file. They worked fine in the lathe in an old
collet adapter that's had its pin sheared off.

In my case, the problem was not the key slot, but rather that
the thread diameter was too large -- just enough so it tended to bind
when the drawbar was screwed onto it.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:27:50 -0400, Wes wrote:

Well, the 4 1/2 MT to 5C adaptor came in today. Now I need to make a draw
tube when I get the lathe together after completing varidrive repairs.

The ideal solution would be something 1 3/8 od with enough meat in the ID to
thread for thread for the 5C shank.

I found this but cheaper solutions would be welcome.

http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/PS...MMainWidth=995


Thanks,

Wes

Geez. I gotta start proof reading my posts more carefully. I meant
to say that I looked for a 1.235 - 20 tap to no avail. Then the 1.250
- 20 tap idea came along.

I did single point the threads but wanted the tap on hand so that if I
got to within a thou or two I could run the tap in to finish the hole
if I wanted Keep in mind that I was repairing about 18 drawbars.

Errol Groff

Errol Groff wrote:

I did single point the threads but wanted the tap on hand so that if I
got to within a thou or two I could run the tap in to finish the hole
if I wanted Keep in mind that I was repairing about 18 drawbars.

I figured there had to be more to this. I wonder what the acceptable
manufacturing tollerance is on this thread? It would be to my advantage to
make a max dia go gage first.

How do you end up with 18 draw bars? There must be a good story there.


Wes

Pete Keillor wrote:

I used 4130 as well for my 5C drawbar. That was my first lathe
project, first inside threading, first tapers. Works great. I didn't
even think of looking for a tap. It single pointed o.k. with lots of
lube.

I ended up using Aircraft Spruce which was 20+ bucks delivered. By the
foot, more expensive than mcmaster carr. By the drawbar much less expensive
and I won't be tripping over the other 4 ft I'd have had to buy for the next
(I hope) 30 years.

Back when I was able to go to Oshkosh each year, I with out fail, stopped by
Aircraft Spruce's spot in the vendor buildings to pick up a catalog.

Wes

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:26:22 -0400, Wes wrote:

Errol Groff wrote:

I did single point the threads but wanted the tap on hand so that if I
got to within a thou or two I could run the tap in to finish the hole
if I wanted Keep in mind that I was repairing about 18 drawbars.

I figured there had to be more to this. I wonder what the acceptable
manufacturing tollerance is on this thread? It would be to my advantage to
make a max dia go gage first.

How do you end up with 18 draw bars? There must be a good story there.


Wes

One summer day I was looking for a drawbar and discovered that while
we had maybe 20 in the shop of varying lengths only ONE had decent
threads in it. The rest were stripped out from years of student
inexperience and abuse.

I looked on the web for 5C drawbars and found that they range from, as
I recall, $400 on up. That was not going to fly so I set about
figuring out how to repair them.

The process (Reader Digest versin) was to make a short length of tube
threaded with the proper ID thread, cut off the damaged end of the
drawbar and weld on the replacment end.

I have some pictures of the process somewhere on the computer and will
look for them and if I find them I will post the pics on the NEMES
websige and put a link here.

Won't be this evening as we are headed out to Foxwoods Casino for
dinner and a George Throgood and the Destroyers concert. Dinner yes,
concert, yes, gambling NO WAY. I work hard enough for my $$ and put
up with the kids as school enough to not want to p*** away my dough.

I had the bits and pieces at Cabin Fever a few years back for
demonstration and got some complimentary comments on my process.

Errol Groff

Instructor, Manufacturing Technology
H.H. Ellis Technical High School
613 Upper Maple Street
Danielson, CT 06239

New England Model Engineering Society
www.neme-s.org

Man you guys are paying WAY to much or working WAY to hard for a 5C
closer...

I snagged a Royal 5C lever closer and 4 1/2 adaptor for my Clausing for 100
bucks... No it wasn't from eBay... it was off the SF craigslist..

I did have to make the spindle nose cover though... total cost for that was
$0.00, a buddy gave me a chunck of AL round to turn that from...

--.- Dave

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Well, the 4 1/2 MT to 5C adaptor came in today. Now I need to make a draw
tube when I get the lathe together after completing varidrive repairs.

The ideal solution would be something 1 3/8 od with enough meat in the ID
to
thread for thread for the 5C shank.

I found this but cheaper solutions would be welcome.

http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/PS...MMainWidth=995


Thanks,

Wes

On Aug 18, 11:10 pm, "Dave August" wrote:
Man you guys are paying WAY to much or working WAY to hard for a 5C
closer...
I snagged a Royal 5C lever closer and 4 1/2 adaptor for my Clausing for 100
bucks... No it wasn't from eBay... it was off the SF craigslist..
...
--.- Dave

You were lucky. There's a lot of old machine tool stuff available here
in New England but I've only seen one lever and two 5C handwheel
closers for sale, all too long.

I made one work by adding a shaft clamp and shop-made housing for a
roller thrust bearing (about $5). The first version used a plain brass
bearing which was easier to make but the work slipped on heavy cuts.

A cheap spin index could be reworked into a 5C collet closer tube and
spindle nose adapter.

Jim Wilkins