I have a copper bar that I am deciding whether to keep it (1x2x15"). I
cannot think of any hobby style need that would involve a copper bar
like that. I have other bars that are more practicable, like
0.25x2x15, etc, these are quite useful for all sorts of things, such
as in my welder conversion, etc. But I cannot see any need for making
parts from big thick copper bars. Aluminum would always be cheaper,
have good electrical and thermal properties, and easier to machine.

Is that, in fact, true?

i

I would hang on to it. I have the occasional need to make bus-bar "bugs",
and other high-current connectors and contacts.

Last year, I had to make all new rheostat studs for my very (very) old EZ-GO
golf cart. They'd discontinued the part.

Nothin' for it but copper rod, lathe time, and some frustration getting my
rake angles right.

(single-point threading of copper is a pain in the ass!)

LLoyd

"Ignoramus5693" wrote in message
...
I have a copper bar that I am deciding whether to keep it (1x2x15"). I
cannot think of any hobby style need that would involve a copper bar
like that. I have other bars that are more practicable, like
0.25x2x15, etc, these are quite useful for all sorts of things, such
as in my welder conversion, etc. But I cannot see any need for making
parts from big thick copper bars. Aluminum would always be cheaper,
have good electrical and thermal properties, and easier to machine.

Is that, in fact, true?

i

On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:17:31 -0400, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I would hang on to it. I have the occasional need to make bus-bar "bugs",
and other high-current connectors and contacts.

Last year, I had to make all new rheostat studs for my very (very) old EZ-GO
golf cart. They'd discontinued the part.

Nothin' for it but copper rod, lathe time, and some frustration getting my
rake angles right.

(single-point threading of copper is a pain in the ass!)

That stuff that you made, you could not make out of 1/4" copper bar,
is that true?

I did find several occasions where a big 1/4" thick copper bar was
useful, indeed.

I think that I will agree with you and hang on to this bar.

i

"Ignoramus5693" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:17:31 -0400, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
wrote:
I would hang on to it. I have the occasional need to make bus-bar
"bugs",
and other high-current connectors and contacts.

Last year, I had to make all new rheostat studs for my very (very) old
EZ-GO
golf cart. They'd discontinued the part.

Nothin' for it but copper rod, lathe time, and some frustration getting
my
rake angles right.

(single-point threading of copper is a pain in the ass!)

That stuff that you made, you could not make out of 1/4" copper bar,
is that true?

I did find several occasions where a big 1/4" thick copper bar was
useful, indeed.

I think that I will agree with you and hang on to this bar.

i

One suggestion: don't anneal it until after you machine it, whatever you do.
You will pay for it in utter misery.

I was involved in machining 2000 cylindrical electrical connectors, 1-1/4"
diameter and 3" long, once upon a time. The harder the copper is, the
better.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
One suggestion: don't anneal it until after you machine it, whatever you
do. You will pay for it in utter misery.

I was involved in machining 2000 cylindrical electrical connectors, 1-1/4"
diameter and 3" long, once upon a time. The harder the copper is, the
better.

I'll remember that. Maybe even harden a piece before I work it. In this
case, it was "run whut you brung". I got a stick of whatever the metal shop
had, and didn't think to harden it before working it.

"Razor-sharp chewing gum" comes to mind.

LLoyd

(I think I screwed up the original reply and sent it just to Lloyd. Hey, I'm
rusty...)

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote in message
.. .
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
One suggestion: don't anneal it until after you machine it, whatever you
do. You will pay for it in utter misery.

I was involved in machining 2000 cylindrical electrical connectors,
1-1/4" diameter and 3" long, once upon a time. The harder the copper is,
the better.

I'll remember that. Maybe even harden a piece before I work it. In this
case, it was "run whut you brung". I got a stick of whatever the metal
shop had, and didn't think to harden it before working it.

"Razor-sharp chewing gum" comes to mind.

LLoyd

Sharp chewing gum it is. g

However, I don't know how you'd harden the copper, unless it was some alloy
that can be heat treated or whatever. Pure copper, and most alloys, can only
be work-hardened. Their hardest state usually is the condition they come in,
right from the mill. The trick is to leave them in that state.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in
:


One suggestion: don't anneal it until after you machine it, whatever
you do. You will pay for it in utter misery.

I was involved in machining 2000 cylindrical electrical connectors,
1-1/4" diameter and 3" long, once upon a time. The harder the copper
is, the better.



It machines really nice with PCD tooling. I used to size printing
cylinders right out of the copper plating bath, prior to engraving and
chrome plating. The biggest issue was birds nests.

--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

"Anthony" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in
:


One suggestion: don't anneal it until after you machine it, whatever
you do. You will pay for it in utter misery.

I was involved in machining 2000 cylindrical electrical connectors,
1-1/4" diameter and 3" long, once upon a time. The harder the copper
is, the better.



It machines really nice with PCD tooling. I used to size printing
cylinders right out of the copper plating bath, prior to engraving and
chrome plating. The biggest issue was birds nests.

Yes, that's a problem, especially in production. I reported on an operation
in western PA some years back that was turning disc-like copper pieces with
autoloading lathes (Wasinos). Their biggest challenge was breaking up the
birds' nests, which they finally accomlished after a lot of experimenting
with feed rates and cutting angles.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ignoramus5693" wrote in message
...
That stuff that you made, you could not make out of 1/4" copper bar,
is that true?

I did find several occasions where a big 1/4" thick copper bar was
useful, indeed.

I think that I will agree with you and hang on to this bar.

The rheostat studs were made from 3/4 round. But I've made bus-bar
connector blocks as large as 2x2x2.

LLoyd

On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:38:41 -0400, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

"Ignoramus5693" wrote in message
...
That stuff that you made, you could not make out of 1/4" copper bar,
is that true?

I did find several occasions where a big 1/4" thick copper bar was
useful, indeed.

I think that I will agree with you and hang on to this bar.

The rheostat studs were made from 3/4 round. But I've made bus-bar
connector blocks as large as 2x2x2.


OK. Thanks. I will definitely hang on to it.

i

What's wrong with you? I am unable to conceive of why anyone
in their right mind would even consider letting a piece of ANY
metal larger than a cubic inch, out of their clutches.
Excuse me, have to go, just heard a bunch of noise from the
garage, where I think a shelf collapsed....

/mark

Ignoramus5693 wrote:
I have a copper bar that I am deciding whether to keep it (1x2x15"). I
cannot think of any hobby style need that would involve a copper bar
like that. I have other bars that are more practicable, like
0.25x2x15, etc, these are quite useful for all sorts of things, such
as in my welder conversion, etc. But I cannot see any need for making
parts from big thick copper bars. Aluminum would always be cheaper,
have good electrical and thermal properties, and easier to machine.

Is that, in fact, true?

i

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 14:53:21 GMT, Mark F wrote:
What's wrong with you? I am unable to conceive of why anyone
in their right mind would even consider letting a piece of ANY
metal larger than a cubic inch, out of their clutches.
Excuse me, have to go, just heard a bunch of noise from the
garage, where I think a shelf collapsed....

I am looking for steel and aluminum pieces, actually. I had doubts
whether I need a copper bar of that size (I have other copper bars
that I actually used).

The real problems begin when there is so much stuff in the garage that
it turns into a Black Hole.

i

Ignoramus5693 wrote:

I cannot think of any hobby style need that would involve a copper bar
like that.

The easiest way to find that out is to sell it.


Nick

Copper is the nastiest stuff I have ever machined. Being a good heat
conductor, soft, sticky, etc, it's just aweful. I made a number of
custom cable swages for 1/8" aircraft cable, and it was a nightmare.
8 feet of 1/4" dia copper round bar got turned into 2" long pieces,
faced both ends, and drilled through with a #29 drill. Some got stuck
in collet blocks, clampled a wierd angles, and fishmouthed in
preparation for brazing, while others got threaded #10-24. In the
process I snapped 4 #29 drill bits and had my lathe drill chuck (this
is a large toolroom lathe with a lever collet closer) pulled bodily
out of the tailstock by the stickyness of the copper. It also
transmitted heat very effectively, to the point where the heat of the
drilling operation (this is with extensive mist coolant, no flood
available) heated the collet to the point where it expanded and did
not grip the part firmly.
The project turned out well, but it was one of my least favorite
machining experieces.

Ignoramus5693 wrote:
I have a copper bar that I am deciding whether to keep it (1x2x15"). I
cannot think of any hobby style need that would involve a copper bar
like that. I have other bars that are more practicable, like
0.25x2x15, etc, these are quite useful for all sorts of things, such
as in my welder conversion, etc. But I cannot see any need for making
parts from big thick copper bars. Aluminum would always be cheaper,
have good electrical and thermal properties, and easier to machine.

One thing a big solid chunk of copper is good for is balling tungstens for
use in welding aluminum. In fact, I would love to have a chunk of that bar
two inches long if you ever decide to saw it up.

An old machinist once told me that if you do have to machine copper the
cutting fluid you want to us - really, this isn't a gag - is milk! I think
he suggested a can of evaporated milk.

Grant

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 08:30:49 -0700, Grant Erwin wrote:
Ignoramus5693 wrote:
I have a copper bar that I am deciding whether to keep it (1x2x15"). I
cannot think of any hobby style need that would involve a copper bar
like that. I have other bars that are more practicable, like
0.25x2x15, etc, these are quite useful for all sorts of things, such
as in my welder conversion, etc. But I cannot see any need for making
parts from big thick copper bars. Aluminum would always be cheaper,
have good electrical and thermal properties, and easier to machine.

One thing a big solid chunk of copper is good for is balling tungstens for
use in welding aluminum. In fact, I would love to have a chunk of that bar
two inches long if you ever decide to saw it up.

Grant, I thought one could ball tungstens with just a piece of scrap
iron. I will let you know if I ever cut it up.

An old machinist once told me that if you do have to machine copper the
cutting fluid you want to us - really, this isn't a gag - is milk! I think
he suggested a can of evaporated milk.

Sounds yucky, the work would smell rather bad in a few days. (don't
ask me how I know)

i

Grant, I thought one could ball tungstens with just a piece of scrap
iron. I will let you know if I ever cut it up.

That really doesn't work. You want a metal that is as conductive as possible,
both electrically and thermally. Short of precious metals, copper is the best
you can do.

You can also use a chunk of copper as a backing bar for welds. I've used blocks
of scrap aluminum for this too.

Grant

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 08:52:11 -0500, Ignoramus5693
wrote:

I have a copper bar that I am deciding whether to keep it (1x2x15"). I
cannot think of any hobby style need that would involve a copper bar
like that.

Very useful for welding thin aluminum sheetmetal corners without
blowing holes. The copper bar stops blowthrus by acting as a chill.
Lightly chamfer a corner on the copper bar to create a bit of space
under the corner to be welded. You don't want the bar to chill the
puddle right in/on the joint. Clamp aluminum pieces to bar with the
chamfer under the corner to be welded.
Weld away!

I make boxes by welding up pieces of sheetmetal, because I don't have
a brake to bend them. Even if I did, with welding I don't have to
worry about bending allowances to get the dimensions right.

It's even handy with thin steel sheetmetal, because weld-thru
(excessive penetration) won't stick to the copper; it'll just
reinforce the inside of the corner.

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:23:23 -0500, Don Foreman wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 08:52:11 -0500, Ignoramus5693
wrote:

I have a copper bar that I am deciding whether to keep it (1x2x15"). I
cannot think of any hobby style need that would involve a copper bar
like that.

Very useful for welding thin aluminum sheetmetal corners without
blowing holes. The copper bar stops blowthrus by acting as a chill.
Lightly chamfer a corner on the copper bar to create a bit of space
under the corner to be welded. You don't want the bar to chill the
puddle right in/on the joint. Clamp aluminum pieces to bar with the
chamfer under the corner to be welded.
Weld away!

I make boxes by welding up pieces of sheetmetal, because I don't have
a brake to bend them. Even if I did, with welding I don't have to
worry about bending allowances to get the dimensions right.

It's even handy with thin steel sheetmetal, because weld-thru
(excessive penetration) won't stick to the copper; it'll just
reinforce the inside of the corner.

Don, it is a good point, something I did not think about (use of
copper as backing for welding butts). At this point I already decided
to keep this particular bar, but it is one more reason to.

i

Don Foreman wrote:

I make boxes by welding up pieces of sheetmetal, because I don't have
a brake to bend them. Even if I did, with welding I don't have to
worry about bending allowances to get the dimensions right.


WOW, I'd sure like to look over your shoulder while you did this! I
was trying to TIG weld some gussets into a box I made of .060" 3003
last night. I almost destroyed the box. I should have set up some
copper bars to keep the aluminum from melting. My big problem was the
gussets would melt into a puddle before I got any melting of the box
material, even though they were the same thickness. I'm pretty sure
they were the same alloy, but something else could have gotten in the
scrap bin.

After painting it will look OK until somebody opens the box, then it
looks like hell!

I've got steel, SS and even copper down just PAT, but aluminum still
drives me crazy. I don't know why. (I have a Lincoln Square-Wave TIG
300, supposed to be a good machine.)

Jon

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:12:45 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:



I've got steel, SS and even copper down just PAT, but aluminum still
drives me crazy. I don't know why. (I have a Lincoln Square-Wave TIG
300, supposed to be a good machine.)

Practice, practice, practice; 5-10x as much as it took to get good at
SS. g

I came up with this technique for folding aluminum without a brake
after learning a similar technique that jewelers use. The grooves in
the 1/8" sheet are cut about 1/16" deep with a 90 degree single flute
countersink. You can see some cracking on the outside of the bends in
the second photo - annealing or a different alloy should take care of
that in cases where it matters.

This probably doesn't help much if you need to install internal ribs,
but it does make nice boxes.

http://www.suscom-maine.net/~nsimmon.../Mailbox00.JPG
http://www.suscom-maine.net/~nsimmon.../Mailbox01.JPG
http://www.suscom-maine.net/~nsimmon.../Mailbox02.JPG

The jewelry technique involves scoring a piece of sheet by hammering a
piece of curved steel wire into the surface of the sheet. You can make
interesting 3D shapes in soft metals very easily this way.

--
Ned Simmons

Ned Simmons wrote:

I came up with this technique for folding aluminum without a brake
after learning a similar technique that jewelers use. The grooves in
the 1/8" sheet are cut about 1/16" deep with a 90 degree single flute
countersink. You can see some cracking on the outside of the bends in
the second photo - annealing or a different alloy should take care of
that in cases where it matters.

Neat. Where do you get that single flute counter sink at?

Wes

Wes wrote:

Neat. Where do you get that single flute counter sink at?

I would use a router bit.

Nick

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 08:36:06 -0400, Wes wrote:

Neat. Where do you get that single flute counter sink at?


http://www.maford.com/taf/catalog.ta...3EFE5346B1D6F9

The grooves could also be cut with a regular endmill with the mill
head rotated, but the c'sink is much more convenient. You want a small
flat at the bottom of the groove to allow some overbend when folding
the part to compensate for springback.
___ ________
\ /
\_/

--
Ned Simmons

Copper makes a nice Buss bar for common returns or earth ground.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Endowment Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Ignoramus5693 wrote:
I have a copper bar that I am deciding whether to keep it (1x2x15"). I
cannot think of any hobby style need that would involve a copper bar
like that. I have other bars that are more practicable, like
0.25x2x15, etc, these are quite useful for all sorts of things, such
as in my welder conversion, etc. But I cannot see any need for making
parts from big thick copper bars. Aluminum would always be cheaper,
have good electrical and thermal properties, and easier to machine.

Is that, in fact, true?

i

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On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 21:51:38 -0500, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
Copper makes a nice Buss bar for common returns or earth ground.

I used big copper bars (1/4" thick) in my rectifier when I converted
my welder to Cubloc microcontroller and normal three phase rectifier:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...New-Rectifier/

Now, a 1" thick bar is a little bit too much for that!

i

Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Endowment Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Ignoramus5693 wrote:
I have a copper bar that I am deciding whether to keep it (1x2x15"). I
cannot think of any hobby style need that would involve a copper bar
like that. I have other bars that are more practicable, like
0.25x2x15, etc, these are quite useful for all sorts of things, such
as in my welder conversion, etc. But I cannot see any need for making
parts from big thick copper bars. Aluminum would always be cheaper,
have good electrical and thermal properties, and easier to machine.

Is that, in fact, true?

i

http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups

On Aug 1, 9:52 am, Ignoramus5693
wrote:
I have a copper bar that I am deciding whether to keep it (1x2x15"). I
cannot think of any hobby style need that would involve a copper bar
like that. I have other bars that are more practicable, like
0.25x2x15, etc, these are quite useful for all sorts of things, such
as in my welder conversion, etc. But I cannot see any need for making
parts from big thick copper bars. Aluminum would always be cheaper,
have good electrical and thermal properties, and easier to machine.

Is that, in fact, true?

i

I built a spot welder and used something similar for the electrodes.