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Gunner's medical bills
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 17:04:59 -0700, Tim May
wrote: A big part of the reason drugs are less expensive in Mexico and Canada is because the drugs imported _into_ those countries (by Pfizer, Merck, etc.) don't carry the "FDA approval, regulation, and litigation premium" that drugs sold in America are forced by market conditions to carry. Buyers in Mexico are not expected to pay for the horrrendously expensive American approval and regulation costs, so they don't. The fix is to fix the regulatory and litigation costs, not to simply legalize importation from Mexico and Canada, which merely says "All shipments of Drug X from New Jersey to Oregon must first stop at the airport in Tijuana." Were that to happen, then the obvious litigation costs _would_ be effectively on the drugs passing through Mexico. This is the issue. --Tim May The issue is this... the current system of: expensive and lengthy FDA approval process, our litigous society, and government regulations provide the absolute best environment for high profits with least effort. Any other system would lower the prices, increase the competition, and lower profits... and allow newcomers to enter into the market. Who is squeezed... the insurance companies..no.. the Drs no.. Merck.. no... the injured or sick person. Reduce the options, increase the beauracracy, add a threat of lawsuits, special permits, heavy regulations.. and you have the perfect business for the rich, established, capitalist... Mike |
Gunner's medical bills
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:38:42 -0500, Lawrence Glickman
wrote: On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:56:50 GMT, "Ryan" wrote: "Lawrence Glickman" wrote in message . .. Gunner's CRIME is that he is a human being Tim May's CRIME is that he is not Spare us the sob story Lawrence. You, of all people, who bitch an moan about '******s' and their welfare. Gunner is no differnet..oh wait, I think he is white You have complained about "Listen, these *blacks* are into drugs, murder for hire, and prostitution. I represent *interference* to their business. Get the picture ?" Well, Gunner's kid was in to drugs and maybe even prostitution or other crimes to pay for drugs? Here is a kicker (5/27/99): "The environments are the _same_. The *upbringing* is the doing of the ******s parents who: a) treat them like dogs b) can't read or write themselves c) are junkies d) are alcoholics e) are thieves f) are murderers g ) are welfare recipients who have neither the intelligence nor the motivation to do something productive with their lives." Gunner seems to fit into the _g_ catagory perfectly. So tell us LG, do you only hate welfare people who are black? Or does Gunner somehow get a pass for acting like a '****** parent'? It appears from reading this *discussion* that Gunner has made some regrettable mistakes. Who amongst us _hasn't_ made any mistakes? Name anybody over the age of 1 hours old. Otoh, repeating the -same- mistakes is what he is being chastised for, and I can't interfere with that. He is getting some good advice from Tim May for the first f*cking time in HISTORY, and he should give it some consideration, regardless of the source it is coming from. I hate to admit to this, because I despise the ******* for any number of reasons, but TM is correct on this *issue.* But as always, there is another side to the story ( every story ). Gunner was in the water going down. The Good Ship Welfare came along and tossed him a lifeline. He grabbed it. He is alive for doing so. Isn't that what Survivalism is all about? Keeping ALIVE under adversity? He did it. But go ahead and kick him in the ass some more, cause you guys seem to get a cheap thrill out of doing so. From the same post: "So Don't blame it on the *environment* Jim Crow, blame it on the nigga's who are incapable of being responsible parents and role models." I haven't changed my position on that. So basically Tim is doing the blaming, but since it's Gunner and he is white...it isn't fair to blame him for anything? Gunner has to be given the opportunity now to correct this incredible situation he finds himself in. Give the man some time to do it for God's sake. Lg NO... Gunner must pay... GUnner must suffer... GUNNER got something for nothing... Gunner cannot get away with this... The whole irony is all this self righteous whining and crying about gunner not dying and suffering.. and it come from those who not only despise the poor and the helpless and the stupid... but the don't even realize.. that they are only a few steps away from things that can be far worse.... and just as bad.. Karma.. is sometimes late... sometimes unseen.. but always just and fair.. and always pays a little visit... |
Gunner's medical bills
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:06:18 -0700, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote: "Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message .. . Oops.. then the rich could not get rich..... Bingo!!! -- SVL ****wit... ( I owe youone) paste the whole post!!! |
Gunner's medical bills
"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:11:17 GMT, wmbjk wrote: On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:25 GMT, Gunner wrote: Im exploring the costs of scripts from Canada and Mexico at the moment. If it were up to GW and friends, that wouldn't be an option for you. It's all part of "compassionate conservatism". If they get a second term and outlaw the reimportation of drugs, you can always take up smuggling, or comb your email spam for alternative therapies. Wayne Wasnt it Bush and Co that passed the perscription drug benefit law? The one with no guaranteed benefits but lots of 'requirements.' Yep. Dan |
Gunner's medical bills
"Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:06:18 -0700, "PrecisionMachinisT" wrote: "Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message .. . Oops.. then the rich could not get rich..... Bingo!!! -- SVL ****wit... ( I owe youone) paste the whole post!!! ....LOL... GOOD timing !!!! -- SVL |
Gunner's medical bills
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:02:29 -0700, Tim May
wrote: In article , Lawrence Glickman wrote: It appears from reading this *discussion* that Gunner has made some regrettable mistakes. Who amongst us _hasn't_ made any mistakes? Name anybody over the age of 1 hours old. I agree with LG that Gunner has made some large mistakes. And I agree that many of us, even all of us, have made mistakes. Perfection is not acheivable. Yes, you have Gunner by the balls at the moment, so whatever you do, don't let go. You might have to wait a long time to get this opportunity again. However, it was the calls for Gunner's bad choices to be further subsidized, in total repudiation of all of the "gubmint bad/socialism evil/Canucks from Canada escaping socialized medicine" rants he has written, that cause me to barf. If you look back at some of the comments I have made, I pointed out Gunner's tale of his sleeping-around wife (I would say "whoring-around wife," but Gunner might claim this is "libel," though obviously a true description, implicit in his own articles about the matter) and how he kept taking her back and how she kept stealing from him, draining his bank account, boozing, and all. It was during this crystalline realization that he is basically either an a) doormat or a b) socialist tax grabber that I elected not to read his rants any longer. This was a few years ago, as I recall. The final outcome of all this hasn't yet been determined. Do not condemn the man to death until the crime has been committed. As of yet, he is still responsible for the bills, and may find a way to pay them ( although they are huge debts, that would take a lifetime to pay off at the rate of income he is proclaiming ). For now, put the rope away, and see what ACTION he will take to handle this. In my own opinion, I am with you. Toss the place in Taft, toss the baggage, start anew somewhere more promising. That is why I left New York for Chicago. Because this is where the jobs were. I did it already. Many years ago ( 30 ). It is a little late for Gunner, but not too late, to do similar. Otoh, repeating the -same- mistakes is what he is being chastised for, and I can't interfere with that. He is getting some good advice from Tim May for the first f*cking time in HISTORY, and he should give it some consideration, regardless of the source it is coming from. I hate to admit to this, because I despise the ******* for any number of reasons, but TM is correct on this *issue.* Yes, and the Old Gunner would have been in agreement with us. Nay, he would have been quoting Heinlein and Tennyson and Kipling and all the rest about the evils of paying people to keep making more stupid and immoral life decisions. But as always, there is another side to the story ( every story ). Gunner was in the water going down. The Good Ship Welfare came along and tossed him a lifeline. He grabbed it. He is alive for doing so. Isn't that what Survivalism is all about? Keeping ALIVE under adversity? He did it. This is the same flaw of thinking that The Independent made, that Gunner's theft from taxpayers (hasn't happened yet, admittedly, though it doesn't look promising that Gunner will pay off that bill when it comes due in however many weeks) was some kind of example of "survivalism." He hasn't missed any payments yet? Hasn't yet received a bill? There is no _hard_ evidence he won't be making payments. "Misc.Survivalism's Man of the Year: Levar Q. Shabazz, for Stealing Mo Bling Bling den any other brutha, A Shining Example of Survivalism!" Look, plenty of farmers got into debt they couldn't repay. And they lost their farms. Millions of them. Life goes on. And plenty of other farmers worked their butts off, sublet part of their lands to other farmers, and managed to crawl back to even. It is not the role of government to bail people out on debts. If it were, I know of a long line of people who were in line before Gunner was! This is the point of the speech by Sen. David Crockett that Gunner has posted at least once, and probably more than once. What happens to Gunner I don't know. As others have said, he won't go to prison (at least not for this debt issue). But he may very well lose his house and machine "toys" and remaining firearms. Which is just what would happen with a farmer or anyone else in a similar situation. And he may end up better off. Hard to say, but I know many people who have been "unburdened' by losing their past baggage. I am in complete agreement. I know this is true from my own experiences. But like I said, I did those moves in my 20's and early 30's. Don't know how this would work for a guy in his age bracket, as far as finding the right job is concerned. There are worse things than (as but one example) living on a boat in the San Diego harbor, getting meds a train trolley ride away in TJ, and doing work on high tech machines in and around La Jolla's biotech and high tech corridor. Were I Gunner, I would maybe even look forward to getting rid of the unfaithful ex-wife and heading for a better job market without any baggage. Agreed. --Tim May Lg |
Gunner's medical bills
Reading all these horror stories about health care I can't understand
why there is such a resistance to going to a fully funded government paid system. The government would be better able to negotiate reasonable rates with doctors and hospitals than individuals can hope to. On top of it all everyone would get the same quality of health care and not have to worry about how to pay for it. The $12 K of income tax on an income of $45 K I pay a year in Canada seems like a deal compared to your health care premiums some of you have to pay, and I get a top quality military funded from that as well. stan michael wrote: This is a letter I wrote to local hospital after I received a bill that I thought was stupid for simple food poisoning. On April 25th, 2004 I went to the E.R. at Covenant Medical Center for what I believed was food poisoning. I went right in since the E.R wasn't busy. I arrived at about 8:00 am. One of the first events to happen was a lady asked for my insurance card. One of the nurses asked me what the problems were and what I had to eat. Another nurse gave me an I.V, something for nausea, and took some blood for test. A doctor talked to me for 4 minutes and felt of my stomach. I slept for 2 hours. When the I.V. was empty and the blood test results found nothing serious. I was wheeled to the doors and released at about 11:00am. For the three hour visit to the E.R my insurance company was charged $1,777.67. The insurance company gets a discount of $622.18 and paid $724.39. I received a bill from the hospital for $431.10. So the hospital gets $1155.49 for 3 hours, an I.V., nausea drug, and blood test. The insurance reported the doctor bill to be $229.00 and paid $183.20. I received a bill for $45.80. The blood test total was a bargain at $35.70. . I have a feeling that many people would say "If you don't like the fees stay sick." Those people would be missing my point. Just because you can hold someone's health for ransom doesn't mean you should. The money isn't the issue I can pay the $476.90, the hospital and doctor bill, and I can pay the $171.00 per month the insurance cost. I just don't see how the simple procedures that were used can cost $2042.37. Are the items I received really that expensive or is it more inefficiency and greed? I think some of this bill is due to inefficiency. The people with insurance are paying for people without insurance. I think some of the bill is greed Covenant charged $229.00 for a doctor to talk to me for four minutes and feel my belly. Drug companies charging outrageous amount for drugs. Insurance companies get big discounts. Michael |
Gunner's medical bills
In article , Santa Cruz
Mike wrote: I agree Tim.. instead of bankruptcy.. we should have debtor's prisons and hard labor... I agree. Nothing wrong with people having to work off their debts. Same as with welfare. It's very hard here in Santa Cruz finding actual laborers, to do yard work, tree work, etc. Most of the tree services are "corporatized," places like Paradise Landscaping. A big reason for the corporatization is that independent laborers just won't show up. They'll space out, they'll be sleeping it off, they'll decide that getting high beats climbing a tree. And welfare offers so many chances for people to just get paid for watching t.v....Gunner's ex-wife's son fits this category. Instead of him digging ditches or trimming trees, he gets paid to do nothing. Welfare recipients should be put into a work pool which is then contracted-out for all of the manual, unskilled labor which needs to be done in the U.S. (Instead, we bring in millions of Mexicans to do this kind of work, something Gunner used to decry. But the same system which pays his ex-wife's son to not work is the system which causes tens of millions of others to become just like him. This is as bad as Rome was in its final decline: we pay outsiders to come in to do the work that our pampered welfare recipients are too noble to do.) --Tim May |
Gunner's medical bills
In article , PrecisionMachinisT
wrote: "Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message ... Oops.. then the rich could not get rich..... Bingo!!! All of Gunner's newfound leftie friends are crawling out of the woodwork. --Tim May |
Gunner's medical bills
In article , Gunner
wrote: On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:11:17 GMT, wmbjk wrote: On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:25 GMT, Gunner wrote: Im exploring the costs of scripts from Canada and Mexico at the moment. If it were up to GW and friends, that wouldn't be an option for you. It's all part of "compassionate conservatism". If they get a second term and outlaw the reimportation of drugs, you can always take up smuggling, or comb your email spam for alternative therapies. Wayne Wasnt it Bush and Co that passed the perscription drug benefit law? That prescription drug benefit thing is widely recognized as the scam that it is. It's essentially a buying club, with the slight price reduction made up for (in the eyes of the drug companies) by the "lock-in" to specific suppliers. It's analogous to a "Grocery Store Benefit Program." "If you sign on with Albertson's Grocery Benefit Program, you will receive a discount on groceries. However, remember that by agreeing to sign on with us, you agree to buy all groceries from us." --Tim May |
Gunner's medical bills
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:54:22 GMT, "Ryan" wrote:
"Ignoramus11028" wrote in message ... Why. The handout is given to me legally. With money stolen from me illegally. If its legal..its not illegal. Dont like it, change the law. Btw..who has been financially supporting me all these years? Just wondering where all those 80 hour weeks come from? Gunner That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell |
Gunner's medical bills
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:44:05 -0500, Lawrence Glickman
wrote: Toss the place in Taft, toss the baggage, start anew somewhere more promising. That is why I left New York for Chicago. Because this is where the jobs were. I did it already. Many years ago ( 30 ). It is a little late for Gunner, but not too late, to do similar. Hows your wife Larry. Still sick and still not wanting to move out of the war zone? Gunner That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell |
Gunner's medical bills
"Tim May" wrote in message ... In article , Santa Cruz Mike wrote: On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:14:37 -0700, Tim May wrote: In article , Leigh Knudson wrote: I have the same terms of coverage that you have but am 60 years old. My insurance is $1368. every other month for my wife and myself. BTW This is a bargain as she has had four major surgeries and at this rate we will never pay off those costs even though I paid $10.K in deductibles each year she had a problem. Leigh @ MarMachine This is a high rate, but is consistent with the risks. As you said, it was a "bargain." The problem with the actions of some here is that they think that those who choose to never get insurance, who lack savings of any kind, that their bills should be state-paid. The problem is the "moral hazard" of rewarding some for being "carefree, spending their money on partying and toys" and the "social hazard" of disincentivizing people like you from even bothering with insurance. If the County and State is going to pay, why bother spending that $1368 a month to buy insurance? --Tim May Tim.. the state doesn't reward... do you think they are just going to let Gunner walk? But the state and county alread DID, on his wife's $400,000 bills ("more or less," Gunner's own estimate of the bills). If Gunner's wife gets a free ride on her medical bills, because she was "partying" when she should have been saving money and buying health insurance, why would Gunner not get the same treatment? And many here have been using the usual "safety net" arguments about how Gunner must have paid a lot of taxes (probably not, but they think so), about how his 3 years in the military entitles him to free treatment, etc. So, yes, I expect he will get a free ride. Another victory for the "grasshoppers" who partied while the "ants" saved and paid taxes and bought insurance. Maybe he'll start posting as a born-again liberal, maybe he'll go back to posting anti-welfare diatribes. Either way, unless he commits to paying the full amount himself, he cannot be taken seriously. Without the rich, the poor cannot exist, and vice-versa........ Leaves me to wondering why those poor are so often despised much as they are by those rich. -- SVL |
The New Gunner: "If it's legal, it's legal, so quit yer bitchin'"
The New Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:54:22 GMT, "Ryan" wrote: "Ignoramus11028" wrote in message ... Why. The handout is given to me legally. With money stolen from me illegally. If its legal..its not illegal. Dont like it, change the law. So now we see the bottom line: if it's legal, it's legal, and people shouldn't complain. If welfare is legal, it's legal, and people shouldn't complain. If confiscatory taxes are legal, they're legal, and people shouldn't complain. If Mexicans having babies in the U.S. to make them U.S. citizens, thus qualifying them for immigration, and welfare, is legal, then it's all legal, and people shouldn't complain. The new, simpler Gunner will be easier to read. No more arguments about right and wrong, about incentives and disincentives, just a check of the lawbooks. "Hey, Gunner, it says here they passed a law to register our guns." "Well, if it's a law, then it's legal, and so it's legal. Quit yer bitchin' and go register 'em!" A pity we wasted so many thousands of posts reading the Old Gunner's views, no longer held by the New Gunner. --Tim May |
Gunner's medical bills
Gunner wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:31:34 -0700, Robert Sturgeon wrote: On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:12:34 GMT, "Ryan" wrote: "Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message . .. Tim.. the state doesn't reward... do you think they are just going to let Gunner walk? Are you trying to tell us that Gunner is going to be placed in prison for theft if these bills are not paid? That is not going to happen. He will go home. He will be allowed to make some small penitence which the state won't touch. There are millions of people that 'owe' the state money, most of them are not in prison for non-repayment. If the service is healthcare, Section 8, etc....you get a free ride. If it is non-payment of taxes, you get a trip to a jail cell. Let's say Gunner got $100K in treatment. He can't pay any of it back unless he wins the lottery. Let's say his neighbor runs some business and hides money. The neighbor owes the state $100K. The neighbor gets caught and tried. The state still may not get their money, but the neighbor has a felony conviction. Gunner on the other hand gets to keep his guns, because the state doesn't try him for his felony theft of services. Welcome to America. I'm sure Gunner is not eligible for MediCal (California's version of Medicaid). If he owes medical bills, he can either work out payment plans with the providers, sell assets to pay for them, or declare bankruptcy - all of which are perfectly legitimate for someone in his position. Correct. Im not eligible for any local, State for Federal aid. Welcome to the welfare state. It's for the poor only. The middle-class gets nothing. Either jump under the boot of poverty or do without. I spent all day yesterday exploring my options, which come down to selling everything I own, home, vehicle, etc etc, , and making them a $15,000 payment..which is about the total of my entire assests, making further payments for the rest of my life, and/or filing bankruptcy while living in a cardboard box. If your assets are $15k you should be able to keep it all by filing a Chapter 7. You need a lawyer (likely) to guide you in properly categorizing property to be exempt. Keep in mind the values are auction values, typically 10-20 cents on the dollar. You will likely be able to keep most or all. If not, you can go for a 13 and keep other property you couldn't keep in a 7. As far as all the red-blooded American crap people are spewing here goes, bankruptcy is as American as apple pie. The whole idea of bankruptcy, is to allow a legal means to take risks and start over if you fail. Without it, enterpreneurs wouldn't take risks of the type that make this country strong. Yeah, maybe you went without health insurance to get a business going. So what? That's how the rules are written and they've worked pretty well. People take chances in America. (d) The following property may be exempted under subsection (b)(1) of this section: (1) The debtor's aggregate interest, not to exceed $15,000 in value, in real property or personal property that the debtor or a dependent of the debtor uses as a residence, in a cooperative that owns property that the debtor or a dependent of the debtor uses as a residence, or in a burial plot for the debtor or a dependent of the debtor. (2) The debtor's interest, not to exceed $2,400 in value, in one motor vehicle. (3) The debtor's interest, not to exceed $400 in value in any particular item or $8,000 in aggregate value, in household furnishings, household goods, wearing apparel, appliances, books, animals, crops, or musical instruments, that are held primarily for the personal, family, or household use of the debtor or a dependent of the debtor. (4) The debtor's aggregate interest, not to exceed $1,000 in value, in jewelry held primarily for the personal, family, or household use of the debtor or a dependent of the debtor. (5) The debtor's aggregate interest in any property, not to exceed in value $800 plus up to $7,500 of any unused amount of the exemption provided under paragraph (1) of this subsection. (6) The debtor's aggregate interest, not to exceed $1,500 in value, in any implements, professional books, or tools, of the trade of the debtor or the trade of a dependent of the debtor. (7) Any unmatured life insurance contract owned by the debtor, other than a credit life insurance contract. (8) The debtor's aggregate interest, not to exceed in value $8,000 less any amount of property of the estate transferred in the manner specified in section 542(d) of this title, in any accrued dividend or interest under, or loan value of, any unmatured life insurance contract owned by the debtor under which the insured is the debtor or an individual of whom the debtor is a dependent. (9) Professionally prescribed health aids for the debtor or a dependent of the debtor. (10) The debtor's right to receive - (A) a social security benefit, unemployment compensation, or a local public assistance benefit; (B) a veterans' benefit; (C) a disability, illness, or unemployment benefit; (D) alimony, support, or separate maintenance, to the extent reasonably necessary for the support of the debtor and any dependent of the debtor; (E) a payment under a stock bonus, pension, profitsharing, annuity, or similar plan or contract on account of illness, disability, death, age, or length of service, to the extent reasonably necessary for the support of the debtor and any dependent of the debtor, unless - (i) such plan or contract was established by or under the auspices of an insider that employed the debtor at the time the debtor's rights under such plan or contract arose; (ii) such payment is on account of age or length of service; and (iii) such plan or contract does not qualify under section 401(a), 403(a), 403(b), or 408 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986. (11) The debtor's right to receive, or property that is traceable to - (A) an award under a crime victim's reparation law; (B) a payment on account of the wrongful death of an individual of whom the debtor was a dependent, to the extent reasonably necessary for the support of the debtor and any dependent of the debtor; (C) a payment under a life insurance contract that insured the life of an individual of whom the debtor was a dependent on the date of such individual's death, to the extent reasonably necessary for the support of the debtor and any dependent of the debtor; (D) a payment, not to exceed $15,000, on account of personal bodily injury, not including pain and suffering or compensation for actual pecuniary loss, of the debtor or an individual of whom the debtor is a dependent; or (E) a payment in compensation of loss of future earnings of the debtor or an individual of whom the debtor is or was a dependent, to the extent reasonably necessary for the support of the debtor and any dependent of the debtor. If I had become permanantly disabled, then I would qualify for various programs. Im also rather agast at the expense of the 4 medicines Im on. So far, Im using up samples the doctor has given me, but when they are gone, there is no more. I simply will not be able to pay for the meds, make payments etc etc. Im exploring the costs of scripts from Canada and Mexico at the moment. In talking to a number of individuals, what it costs them for 1 month in the US, can buy them 3 months out of Canada, and 6 months out of Mexico. So I suspect Ill be making a road trip down to TJ in the next couple weeks. How do you all handle your meds that are not insurance covered? Cash and a hard look at ways to rehab and get off the meds. Canada worked great for me when I needed it. Gunner That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell |
Gunner's medical bills
Gunner wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:31:34 -0700, Robert Sturgeon wrote: On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:12:34 GMT, "Ryan" wrote: "Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message . .. Tim.. the state doesn't reward... do you think they are just going to let Gunner walk? Are you trying to tell us that Gunner is going to be placed in prison for theft if these bills are not paid? That is not going to happen. He will go home. He will be allowed to make some small penitence which the state won't touch. There are millions of people that 'owe' the state money, most of them are not in prison for non-repayment. If the service is healthcare, Section 8, etc....you get a free ride. If it is non-payment of taxes, you get a trip to a jail cell. Let's say Gunner got $100K in treatment. He can't pay any of it back unless he wins the lottery. Let's say his neighbor runs some business and hides money. The neighbor owes the state $100K. The neighbor gets caught and tried. The state still may not get their money, but the neighbor has a felony conviction. Gunner on the other hand gets to keep his guns, because the state doesn't try him for his felony theft of services. Welcome to America. I'm sure Gunner is not eligible for MediCal (California's version of Medicaid). If he owes medical bills, he can either work out payment plans with the providers, sell assets to pay for them, or declare bankruptcy - all of which are perfectly legitimate for someone in his position. Correct. Im not eligible for any local, State for Federal aid. I spent all day yesterday exploring my options, which come down to selling everything I own, home, vehicle, etc etc, , and making them a $15,000 payment..which is about the total of my entire assests, making further payments for the rest of my life, and/or filing bankruptcy while living in a cardboard box. If I had become permanantly disabled, then I would qualify for various programs. Im also rather agast at the expense of the 4 medicines Im on. So far, Im using up samples the doctor has given me, but when they are gone, there is no more. I simply will not be able to pay for the meds, make payments etc etc. Im exploring the costs of scripts from Canada and Mexico at the moment. In talking to a number of individuals, what it costs them for 1 month in the US, can buy them 3 months out of Canada, and 6 months out of Mexico. So I suspect Ill be making a road trip down to TJ in the next couple weeks. How do you all handle your meds that are not insurance covered? Gunner That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell And by the way, just to shed light on the "stealing" argument proposed by some, every creditor knows the rules of bankruptcy in America, and creditors know thiose on the thinnest ice who can file are also the most profitable. So they jack up their rates and fees to cover the losses and gleefully pursue the high risk clients who might file for bankruptcy. It's basic finance for anyone with a brain. Someone sick, out of work can get 25% loans. The creditor bets they can repay, but there's an out if they can't. Everyone takes a gamble and nobody has a right to cry or shout "thief!" What a crock. |
Gunner's medical bills
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:34:24 -0700, Tim May
wrote: In article , Santa Cruz Mike wrote: I agree Tim.. instead of bankruptcy.. we should have debtor's prisons and hard labor... I agree. Nothing wrong with people having to work off their debts. Same as with welfare. It's very hard here in Santa Cruz finding actual laborers, to do yard work, tree work, etc. Most of the tree services are "corporatized," places like Paradise Landscaping. Tim.... slavery was outlawed a hundred years ago... As you know.. their are laboreres in front of Kmart on 41st everyday... San Lorenzo lumber on River street... and on Mission street.... They do the dirty work for the rich cheap white folks... or you can legally hire peole through Manpower in Capitola... and they they have work comp as required by law.. and you won't be responsible if they are injured... for a good laborere.. the charge around $15.60 per hour.. and under 7.00 goes to the poor smuck they send.. rest is for work comp, insurance, SS, tax etc. tec.. The problem is you are a tight wad and just dont' want to pay for something.. you resort to street labor.... no Paraidise has built a nice business in Santa Cruz.. owners are pretty nice people.. My gardners charge me $47.25 per week. to cut, edge, trim, and do a little weed pulling.. takes three of them about 35 - 40 minutes.. quite a bargain.. in the winter they come every other week... what a bargain.. a nice mower cost $300 bucks.. a weed eater $30.. then it would take me two or three hours... No up in Corallitis it might be different.. cause when you go there up in those woods.. the theme song to the movie Deliverance comes to mind But the Coralitis market sure makes good sausage... could be the reputation of those that live there.. I don't know... In Santa Cruz.. what do we have.? thanks to the cashing out of of businesses due to low capital gains taxes.. and abuse of the FEMA people are sitting on their money... speculating in real estate... and while housing is over 550k for a clean house with two bedrooms built in 1947... the vast majority of the jobs.. are second rate jobs with minimal benifits... and no future.... when the laws discouraged companies and indivuduals from cashing out with low capital gains taxes and speical exemptions... owners were forced to invest in america.. and the future.. instead of cashing out.. and sitting on their fat assed bitching on the internet all day.. Capital Gains taxes should be 35-50 percent.. to force businesses to build on the future.. and build here... A lot of our problems.. stem from leftist influence from SCAN and UCSC and know KSCO since Rosemary gained control... but most citizens are conservative but happy enough that they do nothing.. because inspite of the name Santa Cruz has.. it is a pretty nice little town.. with lots of good people... But then.... for those who have done nothing but by some real estate... and sit on it in the last 10-20 years.. you are now millionares.. .. so I guess things are pretty good.. even for the stingy.. and those that bellyache all the time... and do nothing for the community by shop around for mexicans to clean their yard for $3.00 a day.. Well..it's getting late.. got to run to Carmel tomorrow... MIke |
Gunner's medical bills
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:35:21 -0700, Tim May
wrote: In article , PrecisionMachinisT wrote: "Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message ... Oops.. then the rich could not get rich..... Bingo!!! All of Gunner's newfound leftie friends are crawling out of the woodwork. --Tim May I'm no left you dumbass.... I just think stingy ****s like you are the reason the PG&Es, and Enrons, WorldComs.. are destroyed while you sit on your fat ass playing the market... bitching and bragging on the net about how good you are.. and how succefull you are.. .. nobody give a ****.. you live, you die.. the put the money in your casket.. and you rot just like a peice of old cat turd out in the backyard.... only difference is the cat gave somebody some satisfaction.. some enjoyemnt..... Get out of California.. when you east notice.. all the nice and generous things the rich do for the community... you could lean something... Even old tigth wad Al Shugart put in a nice park bench down on the yacht harbot.. that enjoy every day... You are the reason Captialism has a bad name around the world.. same reason Ayn Rand... does too.. cold heartless selfisch bitch.. only differnce... she tried to make a difference... she tried to help peoplel in her on sick way.. but you don't help.. nothing or nobody.. You are man with means.... and you squander on some poor smuck.. who nearly died..... Damn Tim... what the helll are you thking man... Do something with your life.. change the world... Give credit where it is due.. atleast old lefty George Soro and Saban Corp.... are trying to do something with their resources.. instead of whining when somebody get a free pass.. Mike |
Gunner's medical bills
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:17:44 -0700, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote: "Tim May" wrote in message t... In article , Santa Cruz Mike wrote: On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:14:37 -0700, Tim May wrote: In article , Leigh Knudson wrote: I have the same terms of coverage that you have but am 60 years old. My insurance is $1368. every other month for my wife and myself. BTW This is a bargain as she has had four major surgeries and at this rate we will never pay off those costs even though I paid $10.K in deductibles each year she had a problem. Leigh @ MarMachine This is a high rate, but is consistent with the risks. As you said, it was a "bargain." The problem with the actions of some here is that they think that those who choose to never get insurance, who lack savings of any kind, that their bills should be state-paid. The problem is the "moral hazard" of rewarding some for being "carefree, spending their money on partying and toys" and the "social hazard" of disincentivizing people like you from even bothering with insurance. If the County and State is going to pay, why bother spending that $1368 a month to buy insurance? --Tim May Tim.. the state doesn't reward... do you think they are just going to let Gunner walk? But the state and county alread DID, on his wife's $400,000 bills ("more or less," Gunner's own estimate of the bills). If Gunner's wife gets a free ride on her medical bills, because she was "partying" when she should have been saving money and buying health insurance, why would Gunner not get the same treatment? And many here have been using the usual "safety net" arguments about how Gunner must have paid a lot of taxes (probably not, but they think so), about how his 3 years in the military entitles him to free treatment, etc. So, yes, I expect he will get a free ride. Another victory for the "grasshoppers" who partied while the "ants" saved and paid taxes and bought insurance. Maybe he'll start posting as a born-again liberal, maybe he'll go back to posting anti-welfare diatribes. Either way, unless he commits to paying the full amount himself, he cannot be taken seriously. Without the rich, the poor cannot exist, and vice-versa........ Leaves me to wondering why those poor are so often despised much as they are by those rich. -- SVL SAM.. I only personnaly know a few people millioins.. and am married into a pretty wealth group of Jews that live in the Hamptons.. oldl money.... kids produce docs for History Channel, books etc.. but won't mention their name.. cause I embarress them... They all had a break.... none were self made.... We aren't much diffenet then a dog... we get pretty scruffy and thin.. unless we get a little help... direction.. encouragement... assiatnance... scolding... put in our place from time to time.. I despise Hillary Clinton.. but it Does take a commuinty to raise kids.. and have some resbalance of humanity Mike |
Gunner's medical bills
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Gunner's medical bills
In article , Santa Cruz
Mike wrote: On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:34:24 -0700, Tim May wrote: In article , Santa Cruz Mike wrote: I agree Tim.. instead of bankruptcy.. we should have debtor's prisons and hard labor... I agree. Nothing wrong with people having to work off their debts. Same as with welfare. It's very hard here in Santa Cruz finding actual laborers, to do yard work, tree work, etc. Most of the tree services are "corporatized," places like Paradise Landscaping. Tim.... slavery was outlawed a hundred years ago... It is not slavery, any more than imprisoning people is slavery, or having them fulfill military contracts is slavery. You need to reread the definitions. A person who owes should work it off. No up in Corallitis it might be different.. cause when you go there up in those woods.. the theme song to the movie Deliverance comes to mind But the Coralitis market sure makes good sausage... could be the reputation of those that live there.. We make it out of the liberal hippie ****s who wander into the area and tell us about the glories of communism. You and Gunner are peas in a pod. In Santa Cruz.. what do we have.? thanks to the cashing out of of businesses due to low capital gains taxes.. and abuse of the FEMA people are sitting on their money... speculating in real estate... and while housing is over 550k for a clean house with two bedrooms built in 1947... the vast majority of the jobs.. are second rate jobs with minimal benifits... and no future.... when the laws discouraged companies and indivuduals from cashing out with low capital gains taxes and speical exemptions... owners were forced to invest in america.. and the future.. instead of cashing out.. and sitting on their fat assed bitching on the internet all day.. You have no understanding whatsoever of how businesses, especially high tech businesses, operate. Capital Gains taxes should be 35-50 percent.. to force businesses to build on the future.. and build here... Talk to Gunner about this...he'll likely be sympathetic. Raise the capital gains tax and we'll have even _less_ investment. I don't expect you to understand why this is so. Innumeracy is a terrible burden. On the bright side, if Gunner's son could get on SS disability, to be paid to watch t.v. all day, so can you. "It be your right," as your political bedfellows like to say. --Tim May |
Gunner's medical bills
In article , Santa Cruz
Mike wrote: I'm no left you dumbass.... I just think stingy ****s like you are the reason the PG&Es, and Enrons, WorldComs.. are destroyed while you sit on your fat ass playing the market... bitching and bragging on the net about how good you are.. and how succefull you are.. .. nobody give a ****.. you live, you die.. the put the money in your casket.. and you rot just like a peice of old cat turd out in the backyard.... only difference is the cat gave somebody some satisfaction.. some enjoyemnt..... You're not just innumerate, you're also illiterate. You and your lefty bruthas and sistahs need a trip up the chimney. No wonder Gunner is your new philosophical best buddy. --Tim May |
Gunner's medical bills
In article , Santa Cruz
Mike wrote: SAM.. I only personnaly know a few people millioins.. and am married into a pretty wealth group of Jews that live in the Hamptons.. oldl money.... kids produce docs for History Channel, books etc.. but won't mention their name.. cause I embarress them... This explains a lot about your political views. And don't post when you're drunk, as you can't seem to get a complete or coherent sentence out. --Tim May |
Gunner's medical bills
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:10:18 -0700, Tim May
wrote: You have no understanding whatsoever of how businesses, especially high tech businesses, operate. High Tech game is this: Squeak by with some catchy technolgy.. get you some Venture Capital.... a good law firm... a public relations firm...... get a good auditor the make the numbers and predictions squicky clean..... everything is geard to that IPO... of course restricted to the average Joe.. only institutional investors, some banks and buddies... then go public... the stock rise.. your rich.. the lock ins keep the home folk from cashing out... then after six months or so the big guns.. start unloading their stocks making "adjustments" to their portfolia... mean while they cash out... push the business..... but above all.. get your sweet butt safe.. so if things go south... you will have this think called a corporation that will take a hit.. while you walk scott free.... What a great system... or you could be like Juiper Networks and actually make a real product.. but then the got their millions out... the greedy and rich will always invest... they can't help it... they will always try to accumate more... it is their nature... But change the laws so they can't hid behind coporate entities.. trusts, lawfirms and shell companies... Let them be exposed... just like the average Joe... Eliminate swiss banks... private bank accounts at Chase... Let the rich be as exposed and vulnerable as the masses they manipulate and use to build their empires... Mike |
Gunner's medical bills
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:16:34 -0700, Tim May
wrote: In article , Santa Cruz Mike wrote: SAM.. I only personnaly know a few people millioins.. and am married into a pretty wealth group of Jews that live in the Hamptons.. oldl money.... kids produce docs for History Channel, books etc.. but won't mention their name.. cause I embarress them... This explains a lot about your political views. And don't post when you're drunk, as you can't seem to get a complete or coherent sentence out. --Tim May LOL.... I must give you something to bitch and bellyache about... if I could spell and write.. I woudln't have to sell plastic bottles for a living... There you go Tim... you constantly make all the charges of drug and alcohol use against people? Do you or did you have drinking or drug problem at some point in your life.... and so now.. that is your first line of accusations... You are like the leftist you despise in that.... you must resort to name calling, false accusations, and threats of lawsuits and restraining orders.... Nothing worse then being rich and you mind trapped and distressed by a pathetic news group... Are you sure you have really done all the things you say... or are you holed up in some rat infested shack like the unibomber..just waiting to self destruct?? Tick Tock Tim.... Your mind is on the edge.... fragile... could snap at any moment.. I will have to start reading the Sentinel to see if you are in the news.... LOL Santa Cruz Mountain Hermit Discovered After years, the a unshaven and smelly individual was found collapsed over his computer desk... struggling to type his last words of cold and vile hate to his poor fellow slobs as he suffered a stroke from the injustices of a compassionate and generous society.... |
Gunner's medical bills
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:25 GMT, Gunner wrote:
How do you all handle your meds that are not insurance covered? For 35 years I've been filling my prescriptions at the local farmer's co-op veterinary supply. They sell the same drugs, made in the same factories on the same lines, just packaged differently, as the high price human pharmacies, but sell for *way* less money (and no script needed). As example, I recently had a nasty bacterial infection. The doctor prescribed Levaquin. Eckerd wanted $78 for 10 tabs. I went to the Gold Kist co-op store and paid $4 for 25 tabs of an equivalent generic quinolone. Took 1 a day for 10 days as directed, infection cured. Flushed the other 15 pills since old meds can be bad juju. I've talked this practice over with my doctor, and while he can't officially condone it, he agrees that it is equally effective as buying the high price brand name human meds as long as doseage is adjusted to equivalence as necessary. In this case the pills were the same dose, color, and shape as the $7.80 each pills from the human pharmacy, but only cost me 16 cents each. Now not every vet med is suitable for humans, and not every human med has a vet equivalent (do your homework). But where they do, you can usually save *big* bucks by buying at the farmer's co-op. Gary |
Gunner's medical bills
In article , Gary Coffman
wrote: For 35 years I've been filling my prescriptions at the local farmer's co-op veterinary supply. They sell the same drugs, made in the same factories on the same lines, just packaged differently, as the high price human pharmacies, but sell for *way* less money (and no script needed). .... Now not every vet med is suitable for humans, and not every human med has a vet equivalent (do your homework). But where they do, you can usually save *big* bucks by buying at the farmer's co-op. The Feds are trying to close this "loophole," with the collusion of the animal medicine business. Why would the animal medicine suppliers collude? Because instead of selling that pill for 16 cents apiece, they can sell it for dollars apiece. Same reason that cold pills, those little "white cross" white pills that used to come 100 to a bottle, $5 per bottle, are no longer sold. Instead, one buys blister packs with a measly 8 or 16 of the pills, in large boxes. At a high price, on the order of $4 for one of these bulky blister packs of cold pills. And with warnings saying anyone buying more than one of these blister packs is violating some law. The ostensible reason: "To reduce methamphetamine production." ("White crosses" being convertible, with some other chemicals, into crank.) The cold pill companies didn't raise a fuss. They took a pill which cost them less than a penny to make, which they _had_ been selling in the bottles of 100 for several pennies apiece, and now they have a carefully-controlled market where they are told to sell those one penny pills for the princely sum of $4 for a mere 16 of them. So the pill makers are happy with these laws. And so it goes. A snapshot of the larger problem. Which is why the vet meds loophole is rapidly being closed. (By the way, never flush "old meds." Refrigerate them. I guarantee that chemical reactions are governed by Arrhenius relations, and that refrigerating old pills will bring the chemical aging clock to a crawl.) --Tim May |
Gunner's medical bills
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:25 GMT, Gunner said:
Im also rather agast at the expense of the 4 medicines Im on. So far, Im using up samples the doctor has given me, but when they are gone, there is no more. I simply will not be able to pay for the meds, make payments etc etc. Im exploring the costs of scripts from Canada and Mexico at the moment. In talking to a number of individuals, what it costs them for 1 month in the US, can buy them 3 months out of Canada, and 6 months out of Mexico. So I suspect Ill be making a road trip down to TJ in the next couple weeks. How do you all handle your meds that are not insurance covered? Gunner I have had to buy my meds in mexico. A $400/per month script U.S., Cost me roughly $3 for the same amount of pills in mexico. So you can see why I made the trip, and I stocked up bigtime while I was down there. Now I'm set for at least three years, at which time I plan to make another trip. There is a real good FAQ for buying meds in mexico, I have forgotten/lost the link, however you should be able to find it via google. Here's the jist of it : First, make sure you have an original prescription written by a U.S. Doctor (You will need this for U.S. customs) Call ahead of time to see if the medication requires a doctors prescription to purchase (Some meds that require a script in the U.S. are OTC in mexico), if they do require a script, then you will need to see a doctor in mexico for a mexican prescription (a mexican drugstore cannot/willnot accept a U.S. script, they can only honor a mexican script). Mexican drugstores if called ahead, will point you to a mexican doctor who will rewrite a U.S. script for usually $20 USD, and they will allow you to 'stock-up' on most meds, they will only write scripts for amounts of 50 pills for things such as narcotic pain killers, YMMV:-) If you do need large amounts of pain killers, be upfront with your U.S. doctor, and tell them you are going to fill your U.S. script in mexico (provided you legally need narcotic pain killers for long term use) ask the doctor for a letter explaining the medical condition, ect.... That way the mexican doctor will not think you are just a pain pill junkie and write your script amount "unlimited' In fact, in mexico, there are large (very large compared to U.S. drugstores) discount drug wharehouse store that cater to poor Americans who need to stock pile their meds and cannot afford U.S. drug prices, IWO, you can buy in bulk. And they even have price wars with other drugstores, so shop around and compare prices. (Just a glimps of what an unregulated 'to death' drug market would look like in the U.S.) Bringing the drugs back: No big deal. Have your U.S. scripts handy and be sure to declare all of the meds you bought. Customs guys are used to this, and will wave you on through, however they may glance at your scripts and compare the names, which brings up another point. Drugs in Mexico are sold under their generic spanish names. Make sure your doctor writes the script in the drugs generic (english) name (or in my case, have a U.S. script "bottle" which had both names of the drug on it). Google up the FAQ on buying prescription drugs in Mexico for more info on it. HTH, n. |
The New Gunner: "If it's legal, it's legal, so quit yer bitchin'"
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:35:03 -0700, Tim May
wrote: The New Gunner wrote: On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:54:22 GMT, "Ryan" wrote: "Ignoramus11028" wrote in message ... Why. The handout is given to me legally. With money stolen from me illegally. If its legal..its not illegal. Dont like it, change the law. So now we see the bottom line: if it's legal, it's legal, and people shouldn't complain. Where did I indicate it wasnt proper to complain? You are one twisty lying ******* there Timmy. I said..and you can check above..Dont like it, change the law. bull**** rant snipped Btw Timmy... are you still claiming to be a felon? Gunner That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell |
Gunner's medical bills
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 03:07:33 -0400, Gary Coffman
wrote: On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:25 GMT, Gunner wrote: How do you all handle your meds that are not insurance covered? For 35 years I've been filling my prescriptions at the local farmer's co-op veterinary supply. They sell the same drugs, made in the same factories on the same lines, just packaged differently, as the high price human pharmacies, but sell for *way* less money (and no script needed). As example, I recently had a nasty bacterial infection. The doctor prescribed Levaquin. Eckerd wanted $78 for 10 tabs. I went to the Gold Kist co-op store and paid $4 for 25 tabs of an equivalent generic quinolone. Took 1 a day for 10 days as directed, infection cured. Flushed the other 15 pills since old meds can be bad juju. I've talked this practice over with my doctor, and while he can't officially condone it, he agrees that it is equally effective as buying the high price brand name human meds as long as doseage is adjusted to equivalence as necessary. In this case the pills were the same dose, color, and shape as the $7.80 each pills from the human pharmacy, but only cost me 16 cents each. Now not every vet med is suitable for humans, and not every human med has a vet equivalent (do your homework). But where they do, you can usually save *big* bucks by buying at the farmer's co-op. Gary Ive stocked Amoxycillian etc etc from the feed and grain store for many years. I just dont recall seeing Paxil, and the rest of the stuff in there. Survivalists tend to go that route for those types of meds, fish meds, etc. Looking around, seems my 4 daily meds are gonna cost me $400 a month. No can do. Gunner That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell |
Gunner's medical bills
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 01:45:24 GMT, SBaer wrote:
Reading all these horror stories about health care I can't understand why there is such a resistance to going to a fully funded government paid system. Our experience with government funded programs is that they rapidly become government controlled, dictated, and *mandated* programs. That means the health care a person receives would be dictated by politics. It also likely would ultimately mean that government would dictate lifestyle choices in ways designed to limit medical costs. Of course our current US system has government regulations, and defacto dictates from insurance companies. But at least theoretically we can dip into our own pockets and buy the best health care we can afford if those controls and dictates don't suit us. A system where all doctors are defacto or dejure government employees, all treatment facilities are defacto or dejure government owned, etc would not permit that. Now it is likely that the US will eventually go to a government funded and controlled health care system. The current system with its runaway costs *is* broken. On *average*, people may be better off under a government run system. Problem is, few of us consider ourselves or our situations *average*, and almost none of us want to give up the degree of personal control coming under a government system would imply. (Reminds me a bit of the ration board decision which allowed my family to kill 1.5 hogs a year for our personal use during WWII. My father puzzled over how to kill only half of a hog for quite some time. The government was thinking in terms of averages, we had to think in terms of specifics.) This is as much a question of philosophy as it is economics, and it is as much a matter of the national character as it is medicine. We want to believe that we are individualists in the US. We want to believe that we are in charge of our own life choices. It is difficult for us to cede such intimate control of our persons to the bureaucracy. Perhaps we'll be able to strike a political balance that will ease our discomfort and mollify our philosophical objections. But given our experience with other government programs, I'm dubious. I'm almost certain we'd wind up with a medical black market that many of us would patronize by choice in order to avoid entanglements with the government bureaucracy, even though such back alley medicine would likely be much higher risk. Gary |
Gunner's medical bills
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 03:59:09 -0400, North wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:25 GMT, Gunner said: Im also rather agast at the expense of the 4 medicines Im on. So far, Im using up samples the doctor has given me, but when they are gone, there is no more. I simply will not be able to pay for the meds, make payments etc etc. Im exploring the costs of scripts from Canada and Mexico at the moment. In talking to a number of individuals, what it costs them for 1 month in the US, can buy them 3 months out of Canada, and 6 months out of Mexico. So I suspect Ill be making a road trip down to TJ in the next couple weeks. How do you all handle your meds that are not insurance covered? Gunner I have had to buy my meds in mexico. A $400/per month script U.S., Cost me roughly $3 for the same amount of pills in mexico. So you can see why I made the trip, and I stocked up bigtime while I was down there. Now I'm set for at least three years, at which time I plan to make another trip. There is a real good FAQ for buying meds in mexico, I have forgotten/lost the link, however you should be able to find it via google. Here's the jist of it : First, make sure you have an original prescription written by a U.S. Doctor (You will need this for U.S. customs) Call ahead of time to see if the medication requires a doctors prescription to purchase (Some meds that require a script in the U.S. are OTC in mexico), if they do require a script, then you will need to see a doctor in mexico for a mexican prescription (a mexican drugstore cannot/willnot accept a U.S. script, they can only honor a mexican script). Mexican drugstores if called ahead, will point you to a mexican doctor who will rewrite a U.S. script for usually $20 USD, and they will allow you to 'stock-up' on most meds, they will only write scripts for amounts of 50 pills for things such as narcotic pain killers, YMMV:-) If you do need large amounts of pain killers, be upfront with your U.S. doctor, and tell them you are going to fill your U.S. script in mexico (provided you legally need narcotic pain killers for long term use) ask the doctor for a letter explaining the medical condition, ect.... That way the mexican doctor will not think you are just a pain pill junkie and write your script amount "unlimited' In fact, in mexico, there are large (very large compared to U.S. drugstores) discount drug wharehouse store that cater to poor Americans who need to stock pile their meds and cannot afford U.S. drug prices, IWO, you can buy in bulk. And they even have price wars with other drugstores, so shop around and compare prices. (Just a glimps of what an unregulated 'to death' drug market would look like in the U.S.) Bringing the drugs back: No big deal. Have your U.S. scripts handy and be sure to declare all of the meds you bought. Customs guys are used to this, and will wave you on through, however they may glance at your scripts and compare the names, which brings up another point. Drugs in Mexico are sold under their generic spanish names. Make sure your doctor writes the script in the drugs generic (english) name (or in my case, have a U.S. script "bottle" which had both names of the drug on it). Google up the FAQ on buying prescription drugs in Mexico for more info on it. HTH, n. Many thanks! Ill google for it. Gunner That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell |
Gunner's medical bills
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 06:46:35 GMT, Santa Cruz Mike
wrote: Nothing worse then being rich and you mind trapped and distressed by a pathetic body... Notice all through out his posts, Tubby meanders around the fact he simply could not retain or obtain a girl friend or wife? Im somehow not surprised though that Mr. Personality is alone. Gunner That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell |
Gunner's medical bills
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:36:19 GMT, Gunner said:
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 03:59:09 -0400, North wrote: On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:25 GMT, Gunner said: Im also rather agast at the expense of the 4 medicines Im on. So far, Im using up samples the doctor has given me, but when they are gone, there is no more. I simply will not be able to pay for the meds, make payments etc etc. Im exploring the costs of scripts from Canada and Mexico at the moment. In talking to a number of individuals, what it costs them for 1 month in the US, can buy them 3 months out of Canada, and 6 months out of Mexico. So I suspect Ill be making a road trip down to TJ in the next couple weeks. How do you all handle your meds that are not insurance covered? Gunner I have had to buy my meds in mexico. A $400/per month script U.S., Cost me roughly $3 for the same amount of pills in mexico. So you can see why I made the trip, and I stocked up bigtime while I was down there. Now I'm set for at least three years, at which time I plan to make another trip. There is a real good FAQ for buying meds in mexico, I have forgotten/lost the link, however you should be able to find it via google. Here's the jist of it : First, make sure you have an original prescription written by a U.S. Doctor (You will need this for U.S. customs) Call ahead of time to see if the medication requires a doctors prescription to purchase (Some meds that require a script in the U.S. are OTC in mexico), if they do require a script, then you will need to see a doctor in mexico for a mexican prescription (a mexican drugstore cannot/willnot accept a U.S. script, they can only honor a mexican script). Mexican drugstores if called ahead, will point you to a mexican doctor who will rewrite a U.S. script for usually $20 USD, and they will allow you to 'stock-up' on most meds, they will only write scripts for amounts of 50 pills for things such as narcotic pain killers, YMMV:-) If you do need large amounts of pain killers, be upfront with your U.S. doctor, and tell them you are going to fill your U.S. script in mexico (provided you legally need narcotic pain killers for long term use) ask the doctor for a letter explaining the medical condition, ect.... That way the mexican doctor will not think you are just a pain pill junkie and write your script amount "unlimited' In fact, in mexico, there are large (very large compared to U.S. drugstores) discount drug wharehouse store that cater to poor Americans who need to stock pile their meds and cannot afford U.S. drug prices, IWO, you can buy in bulk. And they even have price wars with other drugstores, so shop around and compare prices. (Just a glimps of what an unregulated 'to death' drug market would look like in the U.S.) Bringing the drugs back: No big deal. Have your U.S. scripts handy and be sure to declare all of the meds you bought. Customs guys are used to this, and will wave you on through, however they may glance at your scripts and compare the names, which brings up another point. Drugs in Mexico are sold under their generic spanish names. Make sure your doctor writes the script in the drugs generic (english) name (or in my case, have a U.S. script "bottle" which had both names of the drug on it). Google up the FAQ on buying prescription drugs in Mexico for more info on it. HTH, n. Many thanks! Ill google for it. Gunner Also google " indiginitSP? patient programs" My wife suffers from daily migraines and has been on meds that we could not afford. We simply called the drug maker and asked for the paper work. You and your doctor fill out the paperwork and the drug maker will ship your meds to your doctor (It is illegal for a privite person to receive prescription drugs in the mail, you must have a DEA license), your doctor will give the meds to you. Or simply ask your doctor about the programs, most doctors already have the paper work needed. My wifes did. Basiclly the drug company takes the doctors word that you cannot afford the medicine, and will supply it free of charge, they in turn get a tax break. |
The New Gunner: "If it's legal, it's legal, so quit yer bitchin'"
Gunner wrote in
: On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:35:03 -0700, Tim May wrote: The New Gunner wrote: On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:54:22 GMT, "Ryan" wrote: "Ignoramus11028" wrote in message ... Why. The handout is given to me legally. With money stolen from me illegally. If its legal..its not illegal. Dont like it, change the law. So now we see the bottom line: if it's legal, it's legal, and people shouldn't complain. Where did I indicate it wasnt proper to complain? You are one twisty lying ******* there Timmy. I said..and you can check above..Dont like it, change the law. bull**** rant snipped Btw Timmy... are you still claiming to be a felon? Gunner That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell My Theory : Tim is trying to stress out Gunner so much Gunner has another heart turn , but this time one that is fatal . Why ? Tim is Alancs sock puppet . and very ****ed off at all the attention that Gunner is getting and how much he is being ignored . OK , That part was 1/2 in jest , but the first part isnt . I see no reason for Tim to be trotting out the **** now than he is trying his damdest to cause serious harm . Myal |
The New Gunner: "If it's legal, it's legal, so quit yer bitchin'"
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:28:35 GMT, Myal wrote:
Gunner wrote in : On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:35:03 -0700, Tim May wrote: The New Gunner wrote: On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:54:22 GMT, "Ryan" wrote: "Ignoramus11028" wrote in message ... Why. The handout is given to me legally. With money stolen from me illegally. If its legal..its not illegal. Dont like it, change the law. So now we see the bottom line: if it's legal, it's legal, and people shouldn't complain. Where did I indicate it wasnt proper to complain? You are one twisty lying ******* there Timmy. I said..and you can check above..Dont like it, change the law. bull**** rant snipped Btw Timmy... are you still claiming to be a felon? Gunner That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell My Theory : Tim is trying to stress out Gunner so much Gunner has another heart turn , but this time one that is fatal . Why ? Tim is Alancs sock puppet . and very ****ed off at all the attention that Gunner is getting and how much he is being ignored . OK , That part was 1/2 in jest , but the first part isnt . I see no reason for Tim to be trotting out the **** now than he is trying his damdest to cause serious harm . Myal That ain't happening. Gunner engages in this stuff for sport. Pete Keillor |
The New Gunner: "If it's legal, it's legal, so quit yer bitchin'"
"Tim May" wrote in message ... A pity we wasted so many thousands of posts reading the Old Gunner's views, no longer held by the New Gunner. Sounds like the New Gunner has used the Constitution for toilet paper. "They say saying anything bad about Bush and/or Kerry is now illegal. So it's illegal and it's the law." Good thing our founders didn't follow this logic that came from the crown. I am sure Gunner will be the first person to turn in all his guns when California finally bans them all. |
The New Gunner: "If it's legal, it's legal, so quit yer bitchin'"
"Myal" wrote in message ... Tim is trying to stress out Gunner so much Gunner has another heart turn , but this time one that is fatal . Why ? Well, this could be true. However, last time I checked Gunner is an adult. If one can't take the heat...get your ass out of the kitchen. Besides, if Gunner is more worried about some messages on the computer than getting HIV/AIDS from some slut he was/is banging...he has real ****ed up priorities. |
Gunner's medical bills
"Tim May" wrote in message ... "Misc.Survivalism's Man of the Year: Levar Q. Shabazz, for Stealing Mo Bling Bling den any other brutha, A Shining Example of Survivalism!" Misc.Survivalism Pre-Y2K-----Socialism Bad Misc.Survivalism now---- Socialism Good This newsgroup is hereby renamed misc.socialism.survivalism It seems to fit better with the current trend of thinking by many of the posters. |
Gunner's medical bills
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:36:19 GMT, Gunner
wrote: On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 03:59:09 -0400, North wrote: Bringing the drugs back: No big deal. Have your U.S. scripts handy and be sure to declare all of the meds you bought. Customs guys are used to this, and will wave you on through, however they may glance at your scripts and compare the names, which brings up another point. Drugs in Mexico are sold under their generic spanish names. Make sure your doctor writes the script in the drugs generic (english) name (or in my case, have a U.S. script "bottle" which had both names of the drug on it). Google up the FAQ on buying prescription drugs in Mexico for more info on it. HTH, n. Many thanks! Ill google for it. Gunner FWIW, Gunner. IF they have the particular drugs you need, or the equivalent, I'd think North's advice should work. They're both dead now. But my wife's mother and father used to be snowbirds. Had a home here in Minnesota, plus a little plot with a mobile home down in Arizona where they spent the worst of the Minnesota winter, They, and a lot of their retired snowbird friends used to go over into Mexico and stock up on their meds. I've no real idea of the pricing except that in comparison to US prices it was very inexpensive. How inexpensive, depended on the particular medication. Apparently, they had no problem bringing the stuff back. I was with em once, as the wife and I had drove down to Arizona to visit with em one winter. They had it down to a routine. When in Minnesota, they visited their regular doctor. Got all their testing and checkups. Got their scripts. And then when in Arizona would go Mexico way. Go shopping, have dinner, and do the usual tourist bit. After having dropped off scripts with a Mexican pharmacy. When we all crossed back over, as North indicates, they simply openly declared stuff and IF asked, weren't always asked, they showed scripts from doctor. Had no problems. Heck, I found out yah could by antibiotics and such over the counter, really cheap, down there and picked up a supply for the first aid kit. Border guards didn't have a problem with me bringing em back. Shrug I really don't know the laws and restrictions. Might've been different if they were trying to bring back mass amounts of pain meds and other narcotics. But neither had scripts for such, and neither took such anyway. Hmmm, other possible options .... does California have some sort of state medical aid? I don't know much about these things, but Minnesota has some sort of state medical aid. It's fairly restrictive, but I know some folks on it who says it does help. If Tim does not like my suggesting that you check into that, too bad. While I do not like lazy freeloaders. I have never indicated I'm against my tax money helping those who are actually in real need. The sick, handicapped, and so forth. I'm not against welfare and public assistance of various sorts, just against abuse of the system. Likewise concerning your medical bills. Years ago, 1983, my wife came down with cancer. She very nearly died. I did have medical coverage, I was active duty military. But just as with HMOs and such, there was approved proven treatments allowed. And then there were other options, not yet proven and approved of. Well, the approved stuff wasn't working. And she was dying. I found a doctor, a specialist, who thought a particular technique would work. Military wouldn't cover it. I hired doc anyway. Cost me everything I had, money and property, plus more than that. I ended up filing bankruptancy. And still had to take a second job (I was on shore duty at the time), and we had to cut every budget corner possible for years thereafter to pay off remaining debt court would not dismiss. But she lived. So it was worth it to me. I see no particular dishonor in an honest bankruptancy. It's to be avoided anytime possible, even if it means financial pain and doing without to avoid it. But the bankruptancy laws were originally intended to help the honest person caught up in a major medical problem, unexpected and unforseen calamity of some sort, etc. I don't know bankruptancy laws. Do know that when I went thru it I was steered towards a particular lawyer who made a specialty of it. And I was steered. By a helpful person, because I was at the end of my rope, and even so was reluctant to check into such things. Felt a bit .... dirty, dishonest. Didn't seem right. I've always paid my debts. G In fact, helpful person just about had to kick my ass and drag me to see that lawyer. But once I was in consultation with him, I started to feel a little better. He was one of those rarities. An honest lawyer. In fact, he was pretty brutal. Checking all my finances, history, the documentation as to how I ended up in the situation I was in, etc. Minced no words. Fellow did not like users and abusers of the system. And would not take on such as a client. Started out by telling me that if I was not completely honest, gave him even a hint that I might be lying or scamming him, he'd kick me out of his office. As he put it, he was good at what he did, very good. But had a reputation to protect. Bankruptancy judges trusted him. Made me feel better. My kinda guy. Upfront. If he decided I shouldn't be there, I was playing the system, and not the type that the bankruptancy laws were meant to help, he'd kick my ass out. So we got down to business. And he wasn't mamby-pamby or nice. When he thought I'd made an idiot decision, he said so. Where he thought I could do without, he made me do without. Set up a budget, which was NOT generous by any means. Told me what I'd have to give up to creditors, what he'd fight to see that I could keep (the necessities), and so forth. Laid out a partial repayment plan that was not nice, we'd have to draw belts very tight indeed. Laid it all out in front of me and said "Take it or leave it. Yah don't like it? Get outta my office." He mentioned the plan was tight, and it'd hurt. We'd have next to nothing as concerns luxuries or extras for years. But, in his estimate, if I was being honest with him, and truly wanted to pay back as much as feasible and wasn't just jiving the system ... well, there it was, the plan. I took his offer. Geez, it hurt. But fact was, I wasn't trying to cheat anyone. Was just in a corner due to wife's illness. So his plan was palatable to me. The very best I could do. Maybe meant nothing to others. Didn't matter, meant something to me that I was paying back maximum possible, short of having my family starve. My point is, Gunner. If you've done your best (your opinion, not Tim's), and have just got cornered due to unexpected illness and need help to get off an running again ... that's the kinda thing bankruptancy laws and such were meant for. Make some calls. Typically a county or state social worker should know the numbers of some bankruptancy lawyers who specialize in cases such as yours. You live in a different state so I can't help yah. But I know that here in Minnesota, a few years back, I was trying to help a friend in a bind. Made some calls. And a social worker passed me a number for non-profit financial aid group in this state. I sent friend there. They offered free financial cousneling, budget planning services, etc. But also had numbers for a couple or 3 bankruptancy lawyers they knew and trusted who'd help with cases they felt truly worthy. Lawyers still charged a fee, but on a sliding scale according to income. Friend got fixed up and squared away. Chp 13. Did his 5 year payment thing. Learned his lesson, too. Needed the help, but didn't like it. To this day he only owns 2 credit cards. And never has a balance over a week's pay on both combined. Previously, while he paid bills on time, he was in hock up to neck. So when he got injured and was out of work for a while, there was no way for him to recover financially. He's taken steps to avoid that in the future. Keeps debt to a minimum. He's not rich, far from it. But does what he has to to put a little aside every paycheck so that he'll have a nestegg for emergencies. Like myself, he never wants to be in that situation again. Yeah, it's hard to look for a helping hand. Feels like a handout. But while I have issues with our various aid programs. I have no issues with the fundamental idea that we as a people lend our neighbors struck by misfortune a helping hand. I've mentioned it before in this newsgroup. I don't know how it is elsewhere. But in Minnesota they figure that something like 65% or better of the folks who go on some sort of public assistance or aid program, are only on it 9 months or less. In short, they're the sort the programs were meant for. Person hits roadblock, falls down. Neighbor helps him back up. Person is back up and running again. Another percentage is the truly handicapped and such. I don't think anyone, except perhaps Tim, objects to helping the handicapped. My only issues are with something like 15% of those on the aid rolls. Those who abuse the system. Could make own way, but would rather play couch potato and let others work for em. Check into these things. Hell, yah took a fall. But you're not down and out yet. Check the options. Bob |
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