and also a way of identifying what carbon steel Ive got, the store selling
said it was drill rod, but they didnt know any more then that.

Reyd Dorakeen wrote:

and also a way of identifying what carbon steel Ive got, the store selling
said it was drill rod, but they didnt know any more then that.

Heat a piece of it red hot then plonk it into a can of oil. Test
hardness with a file. The file should skate off the piece if it is fully
hardened. Try the same act with a can of water. If it is water
hardening, it will not be as hard as it can get if quenched in oil. If
it is oil hardening, it may split when quenched in water, though not
reliably. :-)

Once it's hardened, you temper it by heating it in an oven, or polish
it a bit and heat it slowly with a torch. You can roughly judge the
temperature by the change in color. Once the desired color is reached,
quench it in water to stop the temper ing from going any further.

That's the real short version.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 03:05:34 +0000, Reyd Dorakeen wrote:

and also a way of identifying what carbon steel Ive got, the store selling
said it was drill rod, but they didnt know any more then that.

http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art12.htm Is a good site about metal
and alot of things related to it .. (This is a direct link to hardening
steel and if im not mistaking it takes up tempering it also)

Assuming it is not HSS:

Heat to beyond magnetic, quench in water or oil and place in a 350 degree
oven for 1 hour.

HSS drill rod is not heat-treatable in the ordinary home shop. Most drill
rod and steel stock we see advertised in catalogs is ordinary "carbon" steel
and is heat treatable. Generally, steel including drill rod, comes with
instructions for heat treatment. W-1 (water hardening) is the best choice
for home shop use.

Bob Swinney
"Reyd Dorakeen" wrote in message
...
and also a way of identifying what carbon steel Ive got, the store selling
said it was drill rod, but they didnt know any more then that.

Reyd

If you've got real good ventilation, you could case harden it. My
grandfather, who grew up as a blacksmith, used to do that occasionally
to carbon steel. Get some sodium cyanide pellets, put them in a sturdy
metal pan and melt them (traditionally you set them in the forge, but he
used a propane torch - melts at 568 deg. C according to my "Handbook of
Chemistry and Physics"). Stick the piece to be hardened in and let sit.
Rule of thumb is 1/32" of depth per minute (though I think it hits a
diffusion limit around 8-10 minutes). Be careful, cyanide is toxic and
molten salts are tricky to work with. My grandfather was pretty casual
about doing it, but he grew up in the era of lineshafts and expendable
oil punks (the kids that crawled around in the rafters and oiled the
bearings while things were running - if they got tangled up in the
belts, you just got another one).

Jim

the store couldnt tell me.
Assuming it is not HSS:

Heat to beyond magnetic, quench in water or oil and place in a 350 degree
oven for 1 hour.

HSS drill rod is not heat-treatable in the ordinary home shop. Most drill
rod and steel stock we see advertised in catalogs is ordinary "carbon" steel
and is heat treatable. Generally, steel including drill rod, comes with
instructions for heat treatment. W-1 (water hardening) is the best choice
for home shop use.

Bob Swinney
"Reyd Dorakeen" wrote in message
...
and also a way of identifying what carbon steel Ive got, the store selling
said it was drill rod, but they didnt know any more then that.

"Reyd Dorakeen" wrote in message
...
the store couldnt tell me.
Assuming it is not HSS:

If the store can't tell you, then it's not high-speed steel. In fact, you'll
be lucky if it's really drill rod, and not plain cold-rolled mild steel. Is
it ground on the outside, or just dull silver?

Do you have a bench grinder? If so, someone here probably can direct you to
a site that illustrates spark tests to determine steel grades. The standard
grades aren't hard to tell apart.

Ed Huntress

just silver, it says on the reciept carbon steel drill rod, so if it isn't,
I think I can take it back. would a belt sander do instead of the grinder?
in article , Ed Huntress at
wrote on 3/17/04 10:13 PM:

"Reyd Dorakeen" wrote in message
...
the store couldnt tell me.
Assuming it is not HSS:

If the store can't tell you, then it's not high-speed steel. In fact, you'll
be lucky if it's really drill rod, and not plain cold-rolled mild steel. Is
it ground on the outside, or just dull silver?

Do you have a bench grinder? If so, someone here probably can direct you to
a site that illustrates spark tests to determine steel grades. The standard
grades aren't hard to tell apart.

Ed Huntress

"Reyd Dorakeen" wrote in message
...
would a belt sander do instead of the grinder?

If it throws sparks. Got a Dremel?

Tim

--
"I have misplaced my pants." - Homer Simpson | Electronics,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --+ Metalcasting
and Games: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"Reyd Dorakeen" wrote in message
...
just silver, it says on the reciept carbon steel drill rod, so if it
isn't,
I think I can take it back. would a belt sander do instead of the
grinder?

It's probably not fast enough.

If you want to assume they're right, and that it's plain carbon steel, you
shouldn't have much trouble hardening it.

There is a lot of odd stuff on the market today, with all of the imports,
but just be aware that plain-carbon-steel drill rod, once the most common
type, became less common than the alloyed, oil-hardening type around the
1970s. So people here may be wondering what you really have.

Anyway, if you have enough of it to sacrifice a 1-inch chunk for a test, you
can try the heat-and-quench test that someone described here, I think. If
it's not really drill rod, it won't get hard. If it gets really hard, you
have drill rod, but you don't know which type.

At that point I'd assume they're telling you straight that it's
plain-carbon, and treat it as a water-hardening steel. I think you've gotten
some directions here for doing that.

Ed Huntress

finaly found what it is, its AIFI W-1, I think the W is for water, and
somebody told me that the AIFI was something indian something something,
which I guess is the company.
whats the 1 after the w mean, is there W-0, or W-2?

"Reyd Dorakeen" wrote in message
...
just silver, it says on the reciept carbon steel drill rod, so if it
isn't,
I think I can take it back. would a belt sander do instead of the
grinder?

It's probably not fast enough.

If you want to assume they're right, and that it's plain carbon steel, you
shouldn't have much trouble hardening it.

There is a lot of odd stuff on the market today, with all of the imports,
but just be aware that plain-carbon-steel drill rod, once the most common
type, became less common than the alloyed, oil-hardening type around the
1970s. So people here may be wondering what you really have.

Anyway, if you have enough of it to sacrifice a 1-inch chunk for a test, you
can try the heat-and-quench test that someone described here, I think. If
it's not really drill rod, it won't get hard. If it gets really hard, you
have drill rod, but you don't know which type.

At that point I'd assume they're telling you straight that it's
plain-carbon, and treat it as a water-hardening steel. I think you've gotten
some directions here for doing that.

Ed Huntress

"Reyd Dorakeen" wrote in message
...
finaly found what it is, its AIFI W-1, I think the W is for water, and
somebody told me that the AIFI was something indian something something,
which I guess is the company.
whats the 1 after the w mean, is there W-0, or W-2?

Yes, you have a plain-carbon tool steel there, which is what basic, old
"drill rod" is made from.

The "1" tells you what the carbon content and alloy are -- which, in this
case, is no alloy except for carbon. There is, or was, W1, W2, W3, and W5.
W1 has a carbon content of 0.70 - 0.90%, depending on the manufacturer. It's
a slightly loose designation. If it's made in India, it may be looser still.

The W is indeed for water-hardening, and you'll probably want to quench in
water or brine. But maybe in oil, depending on what you're doing. I forget
what this thread was all about. g

The transformation temperature of W1 is in the range of 1450 - 1500 deg. F.
It's not particularly critical unless you need maximum toughness or
hardness. Temper at 350F - 650F, for hardnesses of 64 Rc to 50 Rc,
respectively.

Incidentally, this steel is nothing more than a (possibly)
cleaner-than-usual version of 1070 - 1095. If you have info on heat-treating
those plain-carbon steels, it applies to W1 as well.

What's your application again?

--
Ed Huntress
(remove "3" from email address for email reply)

wood turning tools

"Reyd Dorakeen" wrote in message
...
finaly found what it is, its AIFI W-1, I think the W is for water, and
somebody told me that the AIFI was something indian something something,
which I guess is the company.
whats the 1 after the w mean, is there W-0, or W-2?

Yes, you have a plain-carbon tool steel there, which is what basic, old
"drill rod" is made from.

The "1" tells you what the carbon content and alloy are -- which, in this
case, is no alloy except for carbon. There is, or was, W1, W2, W3, and W5.
W1 has a carbon content of 0.70 - 0.90%, depending on the manufacturer. It's
a slightly loose designation. If it's made in India, it may be looser still.

The W is indeed for water-hardening, and you'll probably want to quench in
water or brine. But maybe in oil, depending on what you're doing. I forget
what this thread was all about. g

The transformation temperature of W1 is in the range of 1450 - 1500 deg. F.
It's not particularly critical unless you need maximum toughness or
hardness. Temper at 350F - 650F, for hardnesses of 64 Rc to 50 Rc,
respectively.

Incidentally, this steel is nothing more than a (possibly)
cleaner-than-usual version of 1070 - 1095. If you have info on heat-treating
those plain-carbon steels, it applies to W1 as well.

What's your application again?

"Reyd Dorakeen" wrote in message
...

The transformation temperature of W1 is in the range of 1450 - 1500 deg.
F.
It's not particularly critical unless you need maximum toughness or
hardness. Temper at 350F - 650F, for hardnesses of 64 Rc to 50 Rc,
respectively.

Incidentally, this steel is nothing more than a (possibly)
cleaner-than-usual version of 1070 - 1095. If you have info on
heat-treating
those plain-carbon steels, it applies to W1 as well.

What's your application again?


wood turning tools

Oh yeah, now I remember. g

Then you have to find the right compromise between toughness and hardness.
My old Casteel (ca. 1900) wood-turning tools are pretty hard. If you tried
to make the edge too thin they'd probably chip.

However, overall toughness with hardenable steel is NOT inversely related to
hardness. You typically get the ultimate toughness at a hardness level
that's just on the hard side of the middle range. For W-1, I'm going to
estimate that's at a tempering temperature of around 375 - 400 deg. F,
tempered for one to two hours. If you temper for more than two hours, don't
go above 375 deg. If you do a quick temper-and-quench, you won't get
anything close to maximum toughness, and no advantage at all in hardness. So
don't do it for a wood-turning tool.

The hard part is getting the initial heating to go right. It's difficult to
get even heating with anything but a furnace (even if it's a small one), and
getting the heating *temperature* right is another challenge. If it's not a
critical job then the temperature is not critical. Where you want some
strength and toughness in the tool, as for wood-turning, then you want to
get that temperature right.

You probably want to quench in water, or brine. Quenching W-1 in oil is a
good idea for very thin pieces, especially if you don't need maximum
possible hardness. But you need hardness, so go with water. Long, moderately
thin pieces are difficult to water-quench without warping. I use a coil of
flexible copper tube (1/4") drilled full of holes, wrapped into a helix (the
holes face inward), and with a hose-faucet female fitting soldered on to the
end. I attach it to my laundry sink. For your job, I'd get the water running
and spraying into the middle of the 2" helix, at around 100 deg. F, and
plunge the hot piece into the middle, bobbing it up and down. Plunging it
into a bucket of water sometimes gives you a badly warped piece.

Good luck.

Ed Huntress