Cool stuff! Yes, I do have enough important stuff to do but, I've started
to become fascinated with the "Black Rifle" build. Just another bottomless
pit potential? Another hobby run amok? I STILL want one! I have
absolutely no need for one but that never stopped me before. I'll bet there
is a wealth of imperial knowledge here in addition to the vast info on the
web. I have a couple of Ruger 5.56s so I'm familiar with the loads, have
the dies and such and it's cheap to feed and ranges are more accessible than
higher power rounds. Buying a finished rifle doesn't interest me unless it
was almost a gift. I want to make chips...but not too many.

There are billions of variables ranging from plinkers to match. I'm leaning
to the plinker knowing it will be more accurate than I am. Lowers are
available in every form from raw forgings or billets to 80% to finished. The
rest is bolt on fluff. (for now) Anybody have a box-o-parts or abandoned
projects? I'll keep reading but there is almost "too much" and those people
are fanatics, it's hard to filter.

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
. com...
Cool stuff! Yes, I do have enough important stuff to do but, I've started
to become fascinated with the "Black Rifle" build. Just another
bottomless pit potential? Another hobby run amok? I STILL want one! I
have absolutely no need for one but that never stopped me before. I'll
bet there is a wealth of imperial knowledge here in addition to the vast
info on the web. I have a couple of Ruger 5.56s so I'm familiar with the
loads, have the dies and such and it's cheap to feed and ranges are more
accessible than higher power rounds. Buying a finished rifle doesn't
interest me unless it was almost a gift. I want to make chips...but not
too many.

There are billions of variables ranging from plinkers to match. I'm
leaning to the plinker knowing it will be more accurate than I am. Lowers
are available in every form from raw forgings or billets to 80% to
finished. The rest is bolt on fluff. (for now) Anybody have a
box-o-parts or abandoned projects? I'll keep reading but there is almost
"too much" and those people are fanatics, it's hard to filter.

If you haven't found it yet, head over to
http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi

Best site for the home builder.

AR-15s are great. We have "His" and "Hers" at my house.

Steve.

On Mon, 01 May 2006 13:14:17 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

Cool stuff! Yes, I do have enough important stuff to do but, I've started
to become fascinated with the "Black Rifle" build. Just another bottomless
pit potential? Another hobby run amok? I STILL want one! I have
absolutely no need for one but that never stopped me before. I'll bet there
is a wealth of imperial knowledge here in addition to the vast info on the
web. I have a couple of Ruger 5.56s so I'm familiar with the loads, have
the dies and such and it's cheap to feed and ranges are more accessible than
higher power rounds. Buying a finished rifle doesn't interest me unless it
was almost a gift. I want to make chips...but not too many.

There are billions of variables ranging from plinkers to match. I'm leaning
to the plinker knowing it will be more accurate than I am. Lowers are
available in every form from raw forgings or billets to 80% to finished. The
rest is bolt on fluff. (for now) Anybody have a box-o-parts or abandoned
projects? I'll keep reading but there is almost "too much" and those people
are fanatics, it's hard to filter.

Did you read my email to you on that subject several days ago?

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
Did you read my email to you on that subject several days ago?

Gunner

No, I thought you didn't get my mail. Check your address book, there might
be a bad address in there. My fault, I might have a notebook set-up wrong
and it might be showing a return address that I don't use connected to my
DSL at-home account. Resend to my normal address at work.

I did check that DSL account for the first time in months and noticed you
had a couple of e-mails in there that were addressed to Don Forman, so your
e-mailing is messed-up too. But, nothing on AR-15s.

--I've often thought it might be fun to rebuild this action for a
20mm cartridge. Heh.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : I'll have the roast duck
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : with the mango salsa...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

On Mon, 01 May 2006 18:06:58 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
Did you read my email to you on that subject several days ago?

Gunner

No, I thought you didn't get my mail. Check your address book, there might
be a bad address in there. My fault, I might have a notebook set-up wrong
and it might be showing a return address that I don't use connected to my
DSL at-home account. Resend to my normal address at work.

I did check that DSL account for the first time in months and noticed you
had a couple of e-mails in there that were addressed to Don Forman, so your
e-mailing is messed-up too. But, nothing on AR-15s.

so do I remove the no spam in this email addy or leave it in place?

I spent some time researching for you...G


"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

Tom Gardner (nospam) wrote:
I'll bet there
is a wealth of imperial knowledge here

There are billions of variables ranging from plinkers to match. I'm leaning
to the plinker knowing it will be more accurate than I am. Lowers are
available in every form from raw forgings or billets to 80% to finished. The
rest is bolt on fluff. (for now) Anybody have a box-o-parts or abandoned
projects? I'll keep reading but there is almost "too much" and those people
are fanatics, it's hard to filter.

Tom,

There is a you-build-it forum on www.AR15.com which has lots of info.
I believe it is http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=4
Also, biggerhammer.net has several blueprint sets for the lower.

I am particularly enamored of a piece-by-piece build that someone did
a few years ago. If I can find the photos, I will email them to you.
He
had only a tiny mill, so he used separate chunks of metal, held
together
by screws, for the front end, the two sides of the magazine well, the
hammer/trigger section, the sides of the hammer/trigger section (for
the pin holes), and the threaded hole on the back. It was a very neat
solution for the limitations of his tools.

As for parts, there are plenty of places selling a "complete lower
parts kit". Uppers are arguably best purchased already assembled,
as the tooling to do the job right can get pretty pricey, and they are
a little less forgiving to put together than the lower's parts.

so do I remove the no spam in this email addy or leave it in place?

I spent some time researching for you...G

Yes remove the (no spam), it's "tom-at-mybusiness-dot-com

I'm up to 500+ spam a day, I'm getting paranoid about being harvested again
and again.

I'm looking forward to your thoughts, I knew you would have the Motts.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Tom Gardner (nospam) wrote:
I'll bet there
is a wealth of imperial knowledge here

There are billions of variables ranging from plinkers to match. I'm
leaning
to the plinker knowing it will be more accurate than I am. Lowers are
available in every form from raw forgings or billets to 80% to finished.
The
rest is bolt on fluff. (for now) Anybody have a box-o-parts or
abandoned
projects? I'll keep reading but there is almost "too much" and those
people
are fanatics, it's hard to filter.

Tom,

There is a you-build-it forum on www.AR15.com which has lots of info.
I believe it is http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=4
Also, biggerhammer.net has several blueprint sets for the lower.

I am particularly enamored of a piece-by-piece build that someone did
a few years ago. If I can find the photos, I will email them to you.
He
had only a tiny mill, so he used separate chunks of metal, held
together
by screws, for the front end, the two sides of the magazine well, the
hammer/trigger section, the sides of the hammer/trigger section (for
the pin holes), and the threaded hole on the back. It was a very neat
solution for the limitations of his tools.

As for parts, there are plenty of places selling a "complete lower
parts kit". Uppers are arguably best purchased already assembled,
as the tooling to do the job right can get pretty pricey, and they are
a little less forgiving to put together than the lower's parts.

I've read big-time on the AR-15.com forums and followed a zillion links from
there. I too was amazed at the stuff people have done with sharp sticks and
rocks for tooling.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Tom Gardner (nospam) wrote:
I'll bet there
is a wealth of imperial knowledge here

There are billions of variables ranging from plinkers to match. I'm
leaning
to the plinker knowing it will be more accurate than I am. Lowers are
available in every form from raw forgings or billets to 80% to finished.
The
rest is bolt on fluff. (for now) Anybody have a box-o-parts or
abandoned
projects? I'll keep reading but there is almost "too much" and those
people
are fanatics, it's hard to filter.

Tom,

There is a you-build-it forum on www.AR15.com which has lots of info.
I believe it is http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=4
Also, biggerhammer.net has several blueprint sets for the lower.

I am particularly enamored of a piece-by-piece build that someone did
a few years ago. If I can find the photos, I will email them to you.
He
had only a tiny mill, so he used separate chunks of metal, held
together
by screws, for the front end, the two sides of the magazine well, the
hammer/trigger section, the sides of the hammer/trigger section (for
the pin holes), and the threaded hole on the back. It was a very neat
solution for the limitations of his tools.


Check he
http://www.geocities.com/elmgrove176.../project6.html

As for parts, there are plenty of places selling a "complete lower
parts kit". Uppers are arguably best purchased already assembled,
as the tooling to do the job right can get pretty pricey, and they are
a little less forgiving to put together than the lower's parts.

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
. com...
Cool stuff! Yes, I do have enough important stuff to do but, I've started
to become fascinated with the "Black Rifle" build. Just another
bottomless pit potential? Another hobby run amok? I STILL want one! I
have absolutely no need for one but that never stopped me before. I'll
bet there is a wealth of imperial knowledge here in addition to the vast
info on the web. I have a couple of Ruger 5.56s so I'm familiar with the
loads, have the dies and such and it's cheap to feed and ranges are more
accessible than higher power rounds. Buying a finished rifle doesn't
interest me unless it was almost a gift. I want to make chips...but not
too many.

There are billions of variables ranging from plinkers to match. I'm
leaning to the plinker knowing it will be more accurate than I am. Lowers
are available in every form from raw forgings or billets to 80% to
finished. The rest is bolt on fluff. (for now) Anybody have a
box-o-parts or abandoned projects? I'll keep reading but there is almost
"too much" and those people are fanatics, it's hard to filter.

Hi Tom,

If you haven't visited this site, you'll want to:

http://www.cncgunsmithing.com/projects.html

I know you have vmc's available. This guy has been bitten by the "build
cool toys" bug pretty badly. Per the webpage, he's a mechanical engineer
who's been working as a machinist. Decided to try his hand at machining
complete frames from platestock. Check it out - ya won't be disappointed
about the time spent.

StaticsJason

No desire for "The Black Rifle". uncomfortable to carry slung, rattles,
sights could be improved, PITA to clean. An M1 has more glitz.

I hope the XM-8 finally gets issued.

Give me Metalstorm for lots of lead.

On 01 May 2006 19:26:41 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, steamer
quickly quoth:

--I've often thought it might be fun to rebuild this action for a
20mm cartridge. Heh.

Diameter or length, Ed? g


-------------------------------------------------------
Have you read the new book "What Would Machiavelli Do?"
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Dynamic, Interactive Websites!
--------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 01 May 2006 20:17:55 -0500, Louis Ohland wrote:
No desire for "The Black Rifle". uncomfortable to carry slung, rattles,
sights could be improved, PITA to clean. An M1 has more glitz.

Yup. I've got a pretty good sized collection, and nothing in the AR
family. Building one myself, though, does have a certain appeal.

Give me Metalstorm for lots of lead.

Which, technically, is a muzzleloader, isn't it?

On Tue, 02 May 2006 06:51:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On 01 May 2006 19:26:41 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, steamer
quickly quoth:

--I've often thought it might be fun to rebuild this action for a
20mm cartridge. Heh.

Diameter or length, Ed? g

There are already .50 BMG uppers for the AR-15 lower.

Single shot though.



-------------------------------------------------------
Have you read the new book "What Would Machiavelli Do?"
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Dynamic, Interactive Websites!
--------------------------------------------------------

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

--Ha! Diameter; I've got a thousand rounds sitting in buckets in the
shed. Missing cases, unfortunately, so I'll have to find them or fab them.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : I'll have the roast duck
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : with the mango salsa...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

"steamer" wrote in message
...
--Ha! Diameter; I've got a thousand rounds sitting in buckets in the
shed. Missing cases, unfortunately, so I'll have to find them or fab
them.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : I'll have the roast duck
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : with the mango salsa...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---


I took a 20mm round apart and used the inert bullet to make a nice plumb
bob!

Steve.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 01 May 2006 20:17:55 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Louis Ohland quickly quoth:

No desire for "The Black Rifle". uncomfortable to carry slung, rattles,
sights could be improved, PITA to clean. An M1 has more glitz.

I hope the XM-8 finally gets issued.

Give me Metalstorm for lots of lead.

Metalstorm? That's what Tom Gardner needed for use outside his shop
during the burglary streak. And mount one on the roof for those people
who would get bad ideas. A perimeter wire would immediately light it
at night so they'd know they were being detected. g

I appreciate the humor! Interesting subject right now, I've been having a
bunch of long conversations with one of my engineers for the past week or so
about firearms...probably catalyzed by my upcoming AR-15 build. I've been
retrospective about what guns are for and every time I went down to the
shop after the alarm and went through the place (it's like a rabbit warren)
gun-in-hand with my heart pounding...God I hate that feeling! I don't feel
so embarrassed, Roger my engineer says He feels the same way when he's done
the sweep thing and he was Special Forces in Nam, an instructor teaching
combat/defensive and was in the unfortunate situation of having to shoot and
kill two tangos that tried to assault him and his wife that were working
late at his business. God, I don't want to kill anybody especially over
"stuff" that can be replaced but God help anybody that threatens me or mine!
Stuff can be replaced!

I made the mistake of congratulating a guy that DIDN'T use a gun when he
might have on the rec guns newsgroup while looking for AR-15 info and was
BLASTED as a pussy anti-gun liberal...that's where the scary gun idiots are!

So, Roger explained the facts of life to me as we were discussing the pros
and cons of carrying a gun. There are a LOT of people that have guns that
shouldn't and my point was that if people (not all) have a gun, they are
more inclined to use it rather than use their head. Roger usually carries,
I usually don't. I WAY trust him with my life to carry but there are very
few people that I DO trust with a gun. Most people think that they
automatically become gun experts and psychology experts due to the fact of
ownership It seems that gun owners fit loosely in four categories: Hunters,
Target, Defensive/combat shooters and idiots. The categories don't overlap
much...especially the idiots with guns...and they scare me!

So, no roof nests for me but a shiny new AR-15 and the fun of machining the
lower from a billet, I will cop-out and buy the jig.

Thankfully there's not much need to carry around here. Aside from the
aesthetic qualities of the 16, wouldn't a pistol be better for close
quarters? Put a good laser or a holo site on it and use a 10MM. Bet you
could easily reach out to 75yds....

I'd rather build an electric gatling for .221 and hope the free recoil
wouldn't toss me backwards...

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 01 May 2006 20:17:55 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Louis Ohland quickly quoth:

No desire for "The Black Rifle". uncomfortable to carry slung, rattles,
sights could be improved, PITA to clean. An M1 has more glitz.

I hope the XM-8 finally gets issued.

Give me Metalstorm for lots of lead.
Metalstorm? That's what Tom Gardner needed for use outside his shop
during the burglary streak. And mount one on the roof for those people
who would get bad ideas. A perimeter wire would immediately light it
at night so they'd know they were being detected. g

I appreciate the humor! Interesting subject right now, I've been having a
bunch of long conversations with one of my engineers for the past week or so
about firearms...probably catalyzed by my upcoming AR-15 build. I've been
retrospective about what guns are for and every time I went down to the
shop after the alarm and went through the place (it's like a rabbit warren)
gun-in-hand with my heart pounding...God I hate that feeling! I don't feel
so embarrassed, Roger my engineer says He feels the same way when he's done
the sweep thing and he was Special Forces in Nam, an instructor teaching
combat/defensive and was in the unfortunate situation of having to shoot and
kill two tangos that tried to assault him and his wife that were working
late at his business. God, I don't want to kill anybody especially over
"stuff" that can be replaced but God help anybody that threatens me or mine!
Stuff can be replaced!

I made the mistake of congratulating a guy that DIDN'T use a gun when he
might have on the rec guns newsgroup while looking for AR-15 info and was
BLASTED as a pussy anti-gun liberal...that's where the scary gun idiots are!

So, Roger explained the facts of life to me as we were discussing the pros
and cons of carrying a gun. There are a LOT of people that have guns that
shouldn't and my point was that if people (not all) have a gun, they are
more inclined to use it rather than use their head. Roger usually carries,
I usually don't. I WAY trust him with my life to carry but there are very
few people that I DO trust with a gun. Most people think that they
automatically become gun experts and psychology experts due to the fact of
ownership It seems that gun owners fit loosely in four categories: Hunters,
Target, Defensive/combat shooters and idiots. The categories don't overlap
much...especially the idiots with guns...and they scare me!

So, no roof nests for me but a shiny new AR-15 and the fun of machining the
lower from a billet, I will cop-out and buy the jig.

"Louis Ohland" wrote in message
...
Thankfully there's not much need to carry around here. Aside from the
aesthetic qualities of the 16, wouldn't a pistol be better for close
quarters? Put a good laser or a holo site on it and use a 10MM. Bet you
could easily reach out to 75yds....

I'd rather build an electric gatling for .221 and hope the free recoil
wouldn't toss me backwards...

THAT I want to see!

I only want the AR because of the ease of building one and it would be
fairly cheap. I have enough pistols for a while and can't think of one that
would excite me. I don't have a really BIG one like a Casull but even I
can't justify it. I already have two 5.56mm rifles so I have plenty of
supplies and dies. Like you said, the aesthetic qualities are probably my
biggest draw and I like the engineering. Definitely not for a "situation".

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
. ..

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 01 May 2006 20:17:55 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Louis Ohland quickly quoth:

No desire for "The Black Rifle". uncomfortable to carry slung, rattles,
sights could be improved, PITA to clean. An M1 has more glitz.

I hope the XM-8 finally gets issued.

Give me Metalstorm for lots of lead.

Metalstorm? That's what Tom Gardner needed for use outside his shop
during the burglary streak. And mount one on the roof for those people
who would get bad ideas. A perimeter wire would immediately light it
at night so they'd know they were being detected. g

I appreciate the humor! Interesting subject right now, I've been having a
bunch of long conversations with one of my engineers for the past week or
so about firearms...probably catalyzed by my upcoming AR-15 build. I've
been retrospective about what guns are for and every time I went down to
the shop after the alarm and went through the place (it's like a rabbit
warren) gun-in-hand with my heart pounding...God I hate that feeling! I
don't feel so embarrassed, Roger my engineer says He feels the same way
when he's done the sweep thing and he was Special Forces in Nam, an
instructor teaching combat/defensive and was in the unfortunate situation
of having to shoot and kill two tangos that tried to assault him and his
wife that were working late at his business. God, I don't want to kill
anybody especially over "stuff" that can be replaced but God help anybody
that threatens me or mine! Stuff can be replaced!

I made the mistake of congratulating a guy that DIDN'T use a gun when he
might have on the rec guns newsgroup while looking for AR-15 info and was
BLASTED as a pussy anti-gun liberal...that's where the scary gun idiots
are!


Years ago my girlfriend (now wife) called me and told me some drunk was
pounding on her door at 2 am and kept it up for a while before leaving and
she was scared to death. It was a VERY small apartment, 2nd floor, so
nowhere to run or escape. So I brought over one of my handguns and gave her
some instructions (she grew up hunting but didn't have much handgun
experience). She was concerned about needed to go to the range to practice
and my reply was "If someone breaks the glass and is reaching in to unlock
the door, just fire a shot into the drywall over the door. I doubt they
will stick around to see if your aim improves with the second try".

Steve.

Years ago my girlfriend (now wife) called me and told me some drunk was
pounding on her door at 2 am and kept it up for a while before leaving and
she was scared to death. It was a VERY small apartment, 2nd floor, so
nowhere to run or escape. So I brought over one of my handguns and gave
her some instructions (she grew up hunting but didn't have much handgun
experience). She was concerned about needed to go to the range to
practice and my reply was "If someone breaks the glass and is reaching in
to unlock the door, just fire a shot into the drywall over the door. I
doubt they will stick around to see if your aim improves with the second
try".

Steve.

Chances are their underwear wouldn't improve either.

On Wed, 3 May 2006 07:28:41 -0400, "SteveF" wrote:


"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 01 May 2006 20:17:55 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Louis Ohland quickly quoth:

No desire for "The Black Rifle". uncomfortable to carry slung, rattles,
sights could be improved, PITA to clean. An M1 has more glitz.

I hope the XM-8 finally gets issued.

Give me Metalstorm for lots of lead.

Metalstorm? That's what Tom Gardner needed for use outside his shop
during the burglary streak. And mount one on the roof for those people
who would get bad ideas. A perimeter wire would immediately light it
at night so they'd know they were being detected. g

I appreciate the humor! Interesting subject right now, I've been having a
bunch of long conversations with one of my engineers for the past week or
so about firearms...probably catalyzed by my upcoming AR-15 build. I've
been retrospective about what guns are for and every time I went down to
the shop after the alarm and went through the place (it's like a rabbit
warren) gun-in-hand with my heart pounding...God I hate that feeling! I
don't feel so embarrassed, Roger my engineer says He feels the same way
when he's done the sweep thing and he was Special Forces in Nam, an
instructor teaching combat/defensive and was in the unfortunate situation
of having to shoot and kill two tangos that tried to assault him and his
wife that were working late at his business. God, I don't want to kill
anybody especially over "stuff" that can be replaced but God help anybody
that threatens me or mine! Stuff can be replaced!

I made the mistake of congratulating a guy that DIDN'T use a gun when he
might have on the rec guns newsgroup while looking for AR-15 info and was
BLASTED as a pussy anti-gun liberal...that's where the scary gun idiots
are!


Years ago my girlfriend (now wife) called me and told me some drunk was
pounding on her door at 2 am and kept it up for a while before leaving and
she was scared to death. It was a VERY small apartment, 2nd floor, so
nowhere to run or escape. So I brought over one of my handguns and gave her
some instructions (she grew up hunting but didn't have much handgun
experience). She was concerned about needed to go to the range to practice
and my reply was "If someone breaks the glass and is reaching in to unlock
the door, just fire a shot into the drywall over the door. I doubt they
will stick around to see if your aim improves with the second try".

Steve.



The only warning shots that should be fired,. are to be aimed 3" above
the belt buckle.

Gunner

On Wed, 03 May 2006 13:30:38 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

Years ago my girlfriend (now wife) called me and told me some drunk was
pounding on her door at 2 am and kept it up for a while before leaving and
she was scared to death. It was a VERY small apartment, 2nd floor, so
nowhere to run or escape. So I brought over one of my handguns and gave
her some instructions (she grew up hunting but didn't have much handgun
experience). She was concerned about needed to go to the range to
practice and my reply was "If someone breaks the glass and is reaching in
to unlock the door, just fire a shot into the drywall over the door. I
doubt they will stick around to see if your aim improves with the second
try".

Steve.

Chances are their underwear wouldn't improve either.

I reemailed that stuff Id researched to you.

Gunner