I have a Rivett 1020S and the Aloris BXA series quick-change tool post
and holders have been recommended to me.

I haven't worked on a lathe since high school (25 years ago) and so I
would really appreciate your recommendations on what holder 'numbers'
to start out with (e.g. #1, #2, #4, etc.).

To start out with I'll be doing a VERY slight taper (for about a length
of 1") on a 3/4" round x 2" long (when it's finished and cut) stock. I
assume that I'll drill the 1/2" center hole rather than bore it (I'm a
newbie).

Eventually I would like to make some chess pieces.

My guess is that I need the following BXA sized holders at a minimum:
#1 Turning and Facing Holder
#2 Boring, Turning and Facing Holder

But I don't know when and why I would need the #4, 41, 4D, 41D, 100,
104, 141, or 42 as an example.

The whole concept of universal tool holders (#20, 22, 30) and triangle
carbide insert holders (#12, 12N, 16, 16N, 23, 80, 80L, 15, 15L) and
knurling holders (#10, 19) is completely new to me.

Thank you for your help. Mark

You will mostly need No. 1s and an occasional No. 2. I also use my No. 7
occasionally (parting off) and the turning/facing carbide tool occasionally
(mostly when I'm going to use carbide I use 1/2" shank TT-type tools in a No. 1
holder). If I want to knurl I use an Eagle Rock scissor-type tool held in a No.
1 holder.

You don't have to buy 'em all at once. If you get them as a set, that's one
thing, otherwise just save your money.

GWE

Mark Main wrote:
I have a Rivett 1020S and the Aloris BXA series quick-change tool post
and holders have been recommended to me.

I haven't worked on a lathe since high school (25 years ago) and so I
would really appreciate your recommendations on what holder 'numbers'
to start out with (e.g. #1, #2, #4, etc.).

To start out with I'll be doing a VERY slight taper (for about a length
of 1") on a 3/4" round x 2" long (when it's finished and cut) stock. I
assume that I'll drill the 1/2" center hole rather than bore it (I'm a
newbie).

Eventually I would like to make some chess pieces.

My guess is that I need the following BXA sized holders at a minimum:
#1 Turning and Facing Holder
#2 Boring, Turning and Facing Holder

But I don't know when and why I would need the #4, 41, 4D, 41D, 100,
104, 141, or 42 as an example.

The whole concept of universal tool holders (#20, 22, 30) and triangle
carbide insert holders (#12, 12N, 16, 16N, 23, 80, 80L, 15, 15L) and
knurling holders (#10, 19) is completely new to me.

Thank you for your help. Mark

Mark Main writes:

My guess is that I need the following BXA sized holders at a minimum:
#1 Turning and Facing Holder
#2 Boring, Turning and Facing Holder

Also consider that you typically want to have more than one of a given
type. Otherwise you can wind up changing bits back and forth all the time,
which of course defeats the purpose.

Has anyone used their #71 Cut-Off and Grooving Holder? What are the
trade-offs between #71 and #7? E.g. rigidity, blade replacement
economics, etc.

I forgot to include #77 Cut-Off and Grooving Holder in my comparison
request. I'm just curious of #71 or #77 end up being better tools that
#7 AND cheaper to run because you just need to replace the carbide
cut-off inserts rather than the whole blade.

Yes indeed, easily 6 of the std. holder. Mebbe not all at once, but easy to
accrue.
I think I saw Aloris clones in Traverse Tools (Queens, NY).
Also a machine dealer rahcheer in Yonkers, NY has used Aloris, in all sizes.
email me iffin yer innerested. Also has some Swiss-type Aloris, in
stainless, iirc.
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Mark Main writes:

My guess is that I need the following BXA sized holders at a minimum:
#1 Turning and Facing Holder
#2 Boring, Turning and Facing Holder

Also consider that you typically want to have more than one of a given
type. Otherwise you can wind up changing bits back and forth all the
time,
which of course defeats the purpose.

Mark Main wrote:

I have a Rivett 1020S and the Aloris BXA series quick-change tool post
and holders have been recommended to me.

I haven't worked on a lathe since high school (25 years ago) and so I
would really appreciate your recommendations on what holder 'numbers'
to start out with (e.g. #1, #2, #4, etc.).

To start out with I'll be doing a VERY slight taper (for about a length
of 1") on a 3/4" round x 2" long (when it's finished and cut) stock. I
assume that I'll drill the 1/2" center hole rather than bore it (I'm a
newbie).

Eventually I would like to make some chess pieces.

My guess is that I need the following BXA sized holders at a minimum:
#1 Turning and Facing Holder
#2 Boring, Turning and Facing Holder

But I don't know when and why I would need the #4, 41, 4D, 41D, 100,
104, 141, or 42 as an example.

The whole concept of universal tool holders (#20, 22, 30) and triangle
carbide insert holders (#12, 12N, 16, 16N, 23, 80, 80L, 15, 15L) and
knurling holders (#10, 19) is completely new to me.

Thank you for your help. Mark




Im not familiar with the numbers but we keep an average of 15 holders
for each lathe. The ones we use most are the holder for indexable square
shank tooling, (these will also hold a small boring bar), the 15 degree
adjustable head that takes a tmna insert, (by setting this in position
you can easily cut any chamfer multible of 15 degrees as well as use it
as a turning/facing tool. You can either get a parting tool or get a
parting tool that will fit in the square shank holder. The threading
tool is easy to sharpen and will do a good job or you can get a topnotch
Kennametal holder or the like and it will thread as well as groove,
depending on the insert you order, they all fit the same topnotch
holder.

In short, aloris spicific tools are nice but will kill your budget in a
hurry if you buy them new. I would buy a couple of square shank holders,
and a boring bar holder, the biggest you can get for the aloris series
you buy. You can always sleeve down to a smaller bar but not up. After
that I would get the 15 degree adjustable holder to make it easy to cut
chamfers. I would put more money into the indexable tooling.

John

According to Mark Main :
I have a Rivett 1020S and the Aloris BXA series quick-change tool post
and holders have been recommended to me.

I haven't worked on a lathe since high school (25 years ago) and so I
would really appreciate your recommendations on what holder 'numbers'
to start out with (e.g. #1, #2, #4, etc.).

To start out with I'll be doing a VERY slight taper (for about a length
of 1") on a 3/4" round x 2" long (when it's finished and cut) stock. I
assume that I'll drill the 1/2" center hole rather than bore it (I'm a
newbie).

Eventually I would like to make some chess pieces.

My guess is that I need the following BXA sized holders at a minimum:
#1 Turning and Facing Holder
#2 Boring, Turning and Facing Holder

The only difference between the #1 and the #2 is that the #2 has
a shallow V-groove at the bottom of the tool slot. This is so you can
clamp down on a round boring bar without it rolling out of the slot.
Normally, reasonable size shank tools will bridge the V, so the #2 can
be used for both functions at will.

But I don't know when and why I would need the #4, 41, 4D, 41D, 100,
104, 141, or 42 as an example.

#4 for holding a large diameter boring bar -- 1", IIRC, for the
BXA size, with a slotted sleeve to adjust it to the next size
down. This is nice for holding boring bars which accept HSS
bits crosswise for deep boring -- and for long internal
threading.

It can also be used for mounting turret tooling like box tools,
Geometric die heads, and certain kinds of knurling tools, along
with releasing tap holders -- if you are willing to take the
time to get the tools properly centered.

#41 Same as #4 -- but holds a larger boring bar (1-1/4").

#4D I don't have a record of this, or any of the 100 and higher
numbers
#100
#104
#141

#42 Nor do I have this one recorded.

The whole concept of universal tool holders (#20, 22, 30) and triangle
carbide insert holders (#12, 12N, 16, 16N, 23, 80, 80L, 15, 15L) and
knurling holders (#10, 19) is completely new to me.

You've got quite a few in that list which I don't have listed (I
made up my list from what MSC had in their catalog a few years back.)

I have the BXA-16N, and find it very convenient, as it holds two
inserts -- one in the turning position and one in the facing position,
with both adjusted to the proper height with a single adjustment.

The #13 is quite nice for getting close to work supported by a
fat live center. It has a tapered extension to the slot which clears
the live center bearing housing, and still gives good support to the
tool. Using the same tool clamped in a #1 or #2, and extended far
enough to clear will set you up for chatter, as the tool will flex.

I usually use mine for the threading insert tools, but am
thinking of getting another for a certain small insert holder which came
with my Compact-5/CNC, and which uses sharper (and smaller) inserts,
producing a nicer finish on some steels.

Note that while I have gotten some Aloris tool holders from eBay
auctions, I have yet to see one for the #16N or the #13 which closes
anything but close to the new price. If I'm going to pay that much,
I'll pay the extra few dollars to get one brand new. :-)

Another one which I have found to be very nice (which I *did*
get from an eBay auction) is the BXA-19 -- a combination of the scissors
knurling tool with a BXA toolholder -- with the two arms carrying the
knurls moving on a vertical dovetail on the holder, with a knob
adjusting both the upper and lower arms in opposite directions at the
same time, to keep the pressure centered on the workpiece.

This is *much* better than the BXA-10 "knurling, facing, and
turning" one, which uses the old bump knurling style which puts a lot of
load on the machine's cross slides. But new, it is *very* expensive.
$260.00 back when I made up my list.

Also, one of the parting blade holders, with the Cleveland
Mo-Max T-profile parting blades is an excellent thing to have.

Now, to see what others have suggested.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

More important to me than having one each of every style is having
*plenty* of holders. I don't like having to mount and unmount bits,
which defeats the purpose of a quick change holder. I've got about 10
of the standard BXA turning bit holders, and they are all full of
properly centered bits.
There's a guy on Ebay who sells them for about $15 each for BXA sizes.
That's hard to beat. They are knock-offs, but well made.
Dan

On 30 Apr 2006 04:42:53 -0700, wrote:

More important to me than having one each of every style is having
*plenty* of holders. I don't like having to mount and unmount bits,
which defeats the purpose of a quick change holder. I've got about 10
of the standard BXA turning bit holders, and they are all full of
properly centered bits.
There's a guy on Ebay who sells them for about $15 each for BXA sizes.
That's hard to beat. They are knock-offs, but well made.
Dan

In the 15 to 17 buck range, http://www.cdcotools.com/ has AXA and
BXA "Interchangeable with Phase II" stuff, but don't list any CXA.
Nice guy to deal with though, if you can get past the very heavy
accent.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

Does anyone have experience with the 'Self Locking Blades with Carbon
Inserts" that are used with the #77 or 71 'Cut Off and Grooving
Holder'? Is it better/faster/cheaper to use these than the standard
#7'Universal Parting Blade Holder'?

Mark Main wrote:
Does anyone have experience with the 'Self Locking Blades with Carbon
Inserts" that are used with the #77 or 71 'Cut Off and Grooving
Holder'? Is it better/faster/cheaper to use these than the standard
#7'Universal Parting Blade Holder'?


I have both an Aloris 7 and a 71. On an AXA-sized lathe, parting off is a
significant problem. I have a whole bunch of parting off tools and on some jobs
I have tried them all.

The 71 is a nice holder, though. It has a big wide blade which holds a carbide
cutoff insert. I'm sure it's more rigid than the 7. On some jobs, the carbide
inserted cutoff tools work really well, on some others they don't seem to work
as well, at least for me. It isn't cheaper to run than the 7, and faster is sort
of irrelevant - if either one works it won't take very long, and if it doesn't
it will mean endless fiddling until you do find something that works. I can't
really say it's better, either, although I would guess it's probably slightly
better in the general case. However, the No. 7 holder takes blades of varying
sizes and the No. 71 only takes one size of insert, and those inserts do cost
and you do break them occasionally.

For parting by far the best setup for parting isn't an Aloris setup at all. I
have a 9" South Bend and I got the T-slot cross-slide table from Metal Lathe
Associates, and also got the rear toolpost kit and machined it to take an
Armstrong cutoff tool mounted upside down in the rear toolpost. That setup
completely eliminates the compound (a major source of flex on small lathes) from
parting, and works very well indeed in most cases.

In fact, I'd be happy to sell you my Aloris Nos. 7 and 71 toolholders complete
with blades & all tooling. I haven't figured pricing yet.

If you want to contact me about maybe buying them, please visit
http://www.tinyisland.com/email.html as replying to the email address I post to
the Usenet from is completely impossible, it isn't possible to infer my email
address from it.

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington