Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Quick change tool post question
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Quick change tool post question
"Cuezilla" wrote:
I was looking at the Enco catalog and they have the Phase 11 [QCTP] for $109. and $199.00 One is a piston type and the other wedge. Is there a difference that should make me spend the extra money? Yes there is a difference. The piston type pushes the holder away from the post which means that load bearing only occurs on the relatively narrow contact of the dovetails. The wedge type pulls the holder toward the post which means that load bearing occurs on the wide flats as well as the dovetails. The wedge type is an inherently stronger and more rigid design. It is similar in operation to the dovetail slides and ways on mills, lathes, etc. The only advantage to the post type is that it's cheaper to manufacture (and hence cheaper to buy). If you are planning to use a QCTP on a small hobby lathe with only very light cuts, you'll probably never know the difference between the two types. But to get the maximum rigidity required for heavy cuts, the wedge type is definitely the way to go. Should I not even be looking the these and go for something higher quality? I have a Phase II wedge-type QCTP and am quite satisfied with its construction. Like all "cheap" import tooling, it's a little rough in non-critical areas (like the inside bore of the center bushing), but it's precise and well-finished where it counts and is certainly worth its price. However you will want to replace all the socket set screws in the holders with quality fasteners (they are M10x1.5 x 20mm); Chinese fasteners are notoriously weak and poorly formed. Sure you can buy a much higher quality US set made by Aloris or Dorian, but do you really want to spend over $400 for this? Also they come in a package with the main post and 5 holders. Is the assortment any good or should I see if I can buy the post, (I saw some on ebay) and then buy the holders I want. Buy the complete set as a start and grow your holders from there. Just look at the prices of the individual holders and do the math. It's much cheaper to get those five holders as part of the set than it is to buy them separately. If I recall, you'll save money even if you throw away two of the five holders. I know I will probably need more then what it comes with. 1. Get the set. 2. Work with it. 3. Figure out what additional holders you'll need. 4. Add to your collection. 5. Repeat step 4 until bankrupt. Is Enco a pretty good place to buy? I live about 15 minutes from MSC and they have them but they are a bit more there for the same thing. Enco's price is a sale price though. Enco is an excellent source for tooling. (No affiliation. But I have given them a lot of business--including buying my QCTP set from them.) MSC is the parent company of Enco...so no harm, no foul on that count. Enco has great sales (and damn good regular prices too: their policy is to beat any other retailer's price by 5%). Enco often features other promotions too like free shipping (which I believe they are offering this month) which can be combined with the sale price. Those QCTP are on sale at Enco almost every month so don't feel pressured into buying before you're ready. Good luck! Michael |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Quick change tool post question
With the wedge style, the
handle locks the holders in about the same position whether using it on the turning or the boring dovetail. With the piston style, the arm has to swing through about 90 degrees -- plus or minus a bit more depending on tolerance of the holders. This can mean that with one position the lever is interfering with the tailstock, or with the other position, the lever is in danger of impacting the chuck. I was fortunate to be able to use several of both types at school. I prefer the piston style. I have had the wedge style stick and be difficult to release. As to the handle being in the way in some positions, we had this problem. I remedied it by disassembling the post and mounting the cam in a dividing head, drilling and tapping 2 more holes for the handle. Now it can be put in the one that suits it best on that machine. The hardest part was figuring out how to get it apart. -- Ron Thompson On the Beautiful Mississippi Gulf Coast USA http://www.plansandprojects.com Where did everyone go? Oh, yeah. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castinghobby/ Y'all come, ya hear? ******* |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Quick change tool post question
--On Tuesday, August 05, 2003 8:41 PM -0700 Cuezilla wrote: I am going to treat myself to a quick change tool post for my 13 inch Sheldon. I was looking at the Enco catalog and they have the Phase 11 for $109. and $199.00 One is a piston type and the other wedge. Is there a difference that should make me spend the extra money? Wacked the rest.. I bought one of those Phase II package deals with the piston type tool post. When I came to a job that required switching tool holders repeatedly I found out why they are so much cheaper! They aren't repeatable to anything better than .010". Ended up setting it on a bench and buying an Aloris wedge style that has repeatability in the .0005" range. I wasted my money on that POS, and had to buy a better one anyway. I HATE when that happens. Oh, it's a 200/BXA size if anyone wants it. GW |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Quick change tool post question
"Cuezilla" wrote in message om... Quote " Later, you can pick up some of the specialized Aloris tool holders -- they will fit the wedge style Phase-II with no problems. I've got a mix of Phase-II and Aloris." Will they fit the piston type should that be my choice? Piston or wedge, the fit is the same. Use them interchangeably. As noted elsewhere, get the bigger size (BxA) or 200 -- that's a lot more important than piston versus wedge. I bought the smaller phase II and after investing in a lot of tooling such as making my own holders and various gadgets for the 100 sized, I learned that B size tool holders and such are much more available than the smaller size on the used tool market. Not only more available, but often cheaper. My mistake. I think that from the point of view of rigidity, the 200 or BxA size piston type will be a lot more rigid than the 100, AxA wedge type. As for piston versus wedge, I don't think the big issue is rigidity -- it is repeatability. For production work that would be very important. For my amateur use, it is a non-issue. I usually don't sweat it if my tool bit is off by a thou or so, one way or the other. Boris -- ------------------------------------- Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting 1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance TEL: 215-572-5580 FAX: 215-886-0144 ------------------------------------------ |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Quick change tool post question
I checked with MSC and they would not meet the Enco sale price. The
differance is big, $109.00 from Enco and $300.81 from MSC for the exact same tool. (Charles A. Sherwood) wrote in message ... Thank you all for your comments, I think I will go with the wedge type and try to get MSC to match the Enco price. Why? Order it from enco. You are essentially dealing with the same company anyway. chuck |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Quick change tool post question
I paid $159 from Bills Tool CRib (on the web) for a wedge type Aloris clone.
Best price around and good service. Incidently, it's a BXA/200 type and I have it on MY Sheldon 13" WM-56P Ken "Cuezilla" wrote in message om... Hi I would be interested in it, email me what you would like to have for it. Maybe we can do something. Thanks gary wilkin wrote in message .. . --On Tuesday, August 05, 2003 8:41 PM -0700 Cuezilla wrote: I am going to treat myself to a quick change tool post for my 13 inch Sheldon. I was looking at the Enco catalog and they have the Phase 11 for $109. and $199.00 One is a piston type and the other wedge. Is there a difference that should make me spend the extra money? Wacked the rest.. I bought one of those Phase II package deals with the piston type tool post. When I came to a job that required switching tool holders repeatedly I found out why they are so much cheaper! They aren't repeatable to anything better than .010". Ended up setting it on a bench and buying an Aloris wedge style that has repeatability in the .0005" range. I wasted my money on that POS, and had to buy a better one anyway. I HATE when that happens. Oh, it's a 200/BXA size if anyone wants it. GW |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Quick change tool post question
In article ,
Cuezilla wrote: Quote " Later, you can pick up some of the specialized Aloris tool holders -- they will fit the wedge style Phase-II with no problems. I've got a mix of Phase-II and Aloris." Will they fit the piston type should that be my choice? This seems to be a function of just how deep the center of the dovetail is cut. The Aloris ones, I believe, are all intended to be used on their wedge style posts. But I think that they are still very consistent, even when it doesn't matter for their toolpost. The piston posts are sensitive to the depths of the center of the dovetail, and I have read posts by some others about having to glue a shim in the bottom of the dovetail for some of the cheaper brands. The *width* of the dovetail is much more consistent than the depth between manufacturers, I believe. (Note that there are a bunch of cheap (relatively) brands -- sometimes sold as house brands, and these can vary much more.) There are also other *good* brands, such as Dorian, which is not really wedge or piston, but sort of a hybrid. It does use a cam-operated piston, but the piston acts out the back edge of the dovetail, pulling it down as tightly as the wedge does. Note that somebody else mentioned having a wedge style stick. I've never seen that when using an Aloris at work, or when using a Phase-II here at home. (I did once have the hollow center post start to unscrew, so I pulled it apart, cleaned and lubed it, and used LocTite on the screws at the bottom of the center post, and have had no trouble with is since. I suspect that the wedge style sticking may have come from swarf working down into the threads which drive the wedges, if things aren't kept clean enough all the time. Good Luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Quick change tool post question
Hi bg,
I've got news for you, Phase II *is* the lowest of the low in quality. Ken "bg" wrote in message om... Ken, Maybe you should check the brand name on the tool set you have. Bills Tool Crib doesnt sell Phase II brand. They sell no name copies that are basically the lowest of the low grades. There is a big difference between these. The only similarity is the model or series numbers. bg "Ken C" wrote in message nk.net... I paid $159 from Bills Tool CRib (on the web) for a wedge type Aloris clone. Best price around and good service. Incidently, it's a BXA/200 type and I have it on MY Sheldon 13" WM-56P Ken "Cuezilla" wrote in message om... Hi I would be interested in it, email me what you would like to have for it. Maybe we can do something. Thanks gary wilkin wrote in message .. . --On Tuesday, August 05, 2003 8:41 PM -0700 Cuezilla wrote: I am going to treat myself to a quick change tool post for my 13 inch Sheldon. I was looking at the Enco catalog and they have the Phase 11 for $109. and $199.00 One is a piston type and the other wedge. Is there a difference that should make me spend the extra money? Wacked the rest.. I bought one of those Phase II package deals with the piston type tool post. When I came to a job that required switching tool holders repeatedly I found out why they are so much cheaper! They aren't repeatable to anything better than .010". Ended up setting it on a bench and buying an Aloris wedge style that has repeatability in the .0005" range. I wasted my money on that POS, and had to buy a better one anyway. I HATE when that happens. Oh, it's a 200/BXA size if anyone wants it. GW |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
A quick question. | UK diy | |||
A DIY question for a change | UK diy | |||
Results: renewing fence post for third time | UK diy | |||
Further to my last post entitled 'Flushing and treating central heating question' | UK diy |