On 11 Mar 2006 17:21:45 -0800, wrote:


F. George McDuffee wrote:
This thread seems like a logical place to post this.

Unka George

It is always dangerous to extrapolate from a sample of one,
however the following instance appears to be typical of the
rapidly increasing number of "flakes," "whack jobs' and "head
cases" infesting the policy making positions of American
government at all levels.

Note to Cliff:
== Unfortunately, neither major party has a monopoly. ==

Had Clinton & Gore lied about "WMDs" to fake up a few wars
they would have been rapidly impeached & then jailed. And justly so.

Instead the wingers lied, fabricated & had severe Monica envy.

While the people that steal for themselves, as in the following
article, cause enough problems, it is the functionaries in
government that seem compelled to steal "because it is there"
that are the greatest danger, i.e. eminent domain seizure of your
home so that other people can get rich, oil give-away, etc.

Is there any sort of psychological test that candidates for these
positions can be required to take that will weed out at least the
more egregious?

======== Excerpt from AP article follows ==============

Bush Shocked -- Shocked by Arrest of Former Adviser

By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer 41 minutes ago

WASHINGTON -
President Bush on Saturday said he was shocked and saddened to
learn that former domestic policy adviser Claude Allen was
charged with theft for allegedly receiving phony refunds at
department stores.

Of what worth is a phony refund?

Look how well phony "WMDs" worked to gain power,
give gifts to crones, get reelected (with all the needed
vote fraud each time), etc.

The dumbass should have gotten "real" refunds.

Still not too late to claim "Cheney made me do it", executive privilege,
national secrets or offer trips to Cuba, is it?

"When I heard the story last night, I was shocked, and my first
reaction was one of disappointment, deep disappointment - if it's
true - that we were not fully informed," Bush said. "Shortly
thereafter, I felt really sad for the Allen family."

Allen, 45, was arrested Thursday by police in Montgomery County,
Md., for allegedly claiming refunds for more than $5,000 worth of
merchandise he did not buy, according to county and federal
authorities.

Oh! He provided phony receipts and got "real" refunds. That should be
illegal.

Perhaps stealing the stuff first .... and claiming to be
a Republican lobbiest ...

Just goes to show that you can't trust the media to get a story right.

Did Faux "news" get their material yet from Rove?
--
Cliff

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:32:40 GMT, Gunner wrote:

Posse C. Martial law would have to be declared..

IIRC The neocons have declared that quaint & meanngless ...
and a scared pocket judge has declared the bill of rights
and the congress (as well as laws) unneeded.

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/lo...ticleid=123132

http://www.opednews.com/articles/ope...ndition_3f.htm
http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?...&ID=2005108426
http://www.socialistworker.org/2006-...uantanmo.shtml

http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/reports/rep...Ly&Content=712
[
"This ruling sets frightening precedent. U.S. officials sent Maher Arar to Syria
to be detained and interrogated through torture. To allow the Bush
Administration to continue to evade accountability and continue to hide behind
the smokescreen of 'national security' is to do grave and irreparable damage to
the Constitution and the guarantee of human rights that people in this country
could once be proud of," ....
]
[
On January 22, 2004, the Center filed suit in the U.S. District Court for the
Eastern District of New York against Attorney General John Ashcroft, FBI
Director Robert Mueller, and Homeland Security Tom Ridge, as well as numerous
U.S. immigration officials. The claims in the lawsuit include violations of Mr.
Arar's right to due process under the U.S. Constitution and his right not to be
tortured under color of foreign law as guaranteed by the Torture Victim
Protection Act.

In January of 2005, the U.S. government asserted the "state secrets" privilege,
arguing that the law suit must be dismissed because allowing it to proceed would
necessarily involve the disclosure of sensitive information that would threaten
national security or diplomatic relations if made public.
]

As if we & the whole world did not already know ...

[
There can be little doubt that every official of the United States government
knew that sending Mr. Arar to Syria was a clear violation of the U.S.
Constitution, federal statutes, and international law. How can this
Administration argue before a Federal Court Judge that its practice of
outsourcing for interrogation under torture constitutes a state secret? This is
a dark day indeed.
]


http://www.democracynow.org/print.pl.../02/27/1519248
[
In a ruling earlier this month, the federal judge, David Trager, said he could
not interfere in the case because it involves crucial national security and
foreign relations issues. In an 88-page judgment, Trager wrote, quote, "One need
not have much imagination to contemplate the negative effect on our relations
with Canada if discovery were to proceed in this case and were it to turn out
that certain high Canadian officials had, despite public denials, acquiesced in
Arar’s removal to Syria."
]
[
MICHAEL RATNER: You know, this was one of the most remarkable and infamous and
worst decisions I’ve ever read by a federal judge. I mean, what it really is
saying is it gives a green light to the U.S. to take people like Maher Arar and
send them overseas for torture. You understand that he had to accept the
allegation that the United States government, the Bush administration,
intentionally sent Arar over to Syria to be tortured. And on that allegation, he
said, “We cannot go into this case because of national security.”
]
[
This is Pinochet. This is Pinochet saying I can torture in the name of national
security ..
]


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...968 332188492
[
The Arar suit was the first court test of the Bush administration policy of
"extraordinary rendition," a practice often referred to as the outsourcing of
torture.

Arar's is just one of a number of well-documented cases in which suspects have
been shipped to third countries with dubious human rights records where
interrogation methods outlawed in the U.S. can be used.

Trager acknowledged Arar's fears of torture in Syria were real and he cited the
U.S. State Department's own report on human rights abuses there.

He said such decisions were beyond the realm of his court.

"A judge who declares on his or her own ... authority that the policy of
extraordinary rendition is under all circumstances unconstitutional must
acknowledge that such a ruling can have the most serious of consequences to our
foreign relations or national security or both," Trager wrote.
]

http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/home.asp
[
Shocking Torture at Guantánamo Confirmed In Government Documents Revealed Today
- In New York, on March 2, 2006, a government interrogation log from the
Guantánamo Bay Naval Station was posted on the Internet, confirming that U.S.
personnel inflicted torture and inhumane treatment on Guantánamo ..
]
[
First Violation of McCain Torture Amendment Alleged in Emergency Injunction - On
February 27, 2006, The first violation of the McCain torture amendment was
alleged in federal court in an emergency injunction to end further torture of
Guantánamo detainees. ...
]

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:43:38 -0500, wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Actually...its true. The last one I read..was the Rangers..and only
21% said they would fire on US citizens....

I'd be curious what the questions were. One would have to present a
senario where the serviceman was protecting US citizens by such an
action.

Murdering 100,000 ++ citizens of Iraq saved them from Saddam.

Don't you know anything?


I find even thinking of the subject totally repugnant.
--
Cliff

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:33:29 -0500, John wrote:

Ever hear of HAARP?

http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/cam.fcgi
--
Cliff

Ever hear of HAARP?


John

Youbetcha!

Ever hear of HAARP?


John

Another thought, either mankind can't output enough energy into a "system"
to have any effect or there's the "Butterfly Fart" theory...I wish I knew
more about it.

In misc.survivalism Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

Used to drive by every day. Clinton sacked every budget he could. Closed the
federal fisheries on the west coast, stole money from Forestry....
For his pet projects naturally.

Which pet projects could not have been accomplished but for the reductions
in the military?

--
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
--Edward R. Murrow

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:28:11 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

I will support and defend the
Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and
domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that
I will obey the orders of the President of the United States

I see a problem already.
--
Cliff

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:09:12 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

San Jose had junk stuff and went to war with it. Clinton didn't replace it.
It was constantly being worked on. Then a few years ago, all their stuff was
replaced with the latest material. They (IIRC) are a transport and expedite
group. Mostly unique and heavy load trucks of all types.

Used to drive by every day. Clinton sacked every budget he could.

Not to hear the wingers of the day tell it.
Did get the deficit down though a bit ...

Closed the federal fisheries on the west coast,

Oh? Overfished to the point of hugely declining populations
& returns?
Sort of like the East Coast?

stole money from Forestry....

Rather than clearcut the forests for the paper firms to export
inexpensive pulp (and prevent forest fires)?
--
Cliff

"Cliff" wrote in message ...
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:33:29 -0500, John wrote:

Ever hear of HAARP?

http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/cam.fcgi
--

ELF Generators Clam Lake
http://www.frappr.com/machinescnc/photo/1541137

Source:
http://enterprise.spawar.navy.mil/Up...ke_elf2003.pdf

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.g...23edd16?hl=en&

John

Tom Gardner wrote:

Ever hear of HAARP?


John


Another thought, either mankind can't output enough energy into a "system"
to have any effect or there's the "Butterfly Fart" theory...I wish I knew
more about it.



Supposedly man can output enough freon, co2, or anything else to
effect a change in weather patterns but when he actually is trying to
do it everyone says it doesn't work.



John

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:03:59 -0500, john
wrote:



Tom Gardner wrote:


Another thought, either mankind can't output enough energy into a "system"
to have any effect or there's the "Butterfly Fart" theory...I wish I knew
more about it.



Supposedly man can output enough freon, co2, or anything else to
effect a change in weather patterns but when he actually is trying to
do it everyone says it doesn't work.


And your problem with that would be?

Guido wrote:

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:03:59 -0500, john
wrote:



Tom Gardner wrote:


Another thought, either mankind can't output enough energy into a "system"
to have any effect or there's the "Butterfly Fart" theory...I wish I knew
more about it.



Supposedly man can output enough freon, co2, or anything else to
effect a change in weather patterns but when he actually is trying to
do it everyone says it doesn't work.


And your problem with that would be?

I have no problem with that. I wish global warming would hurry up and
come on. Driving two and a half hours to go deep sea fishing is a
bummer, and spending over two thousnad dollars on heating oil this year
didn't help either, as well as the snow and ice.

NYC could be the Venice of the US.


People worry too much.



John

Cliff wrote:
On 11 Mar 2006 05:55:11 -0800, wrote:

Now everyone has body armor.

Their parents could all afford it?

Probably not.

On 12 Mar 2006 16:25:12 -0800, wrote:


Cliff wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:44:13 GMT, Gunner wrote:

Not all personell in military MOS needed body armor. Truck mechanics
seldom needed body armor, as an example in most wars, as they were
generally way back behind the lines.

Hiding in the nice safe fortified "green zones"?
Sort of like the new "free speech zones" in the US & UK?

Do they get their pictures & fingerprints taken too?
--
Cliff

Classic ADD. Can't stay on topic.

Indeed.
What the stupid ******* doesnt understand..is first how the military
functions, and secondly..if they were all in the Green Zone..where are
all the casualites coming from?

Ive had the cocksucker kill filed for nearly 2 yrs now..and I dont
miss him a bit.

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:52:34 GMT, Gunner wrote:

On 12 Mar 2006 16:25:12 -0800, wrote:


Cliff wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:44:13 GMT, Gunner wrote:

Not all personell in military MOS needed body armor. Truck mechanics
seldom needed body armor, as an example in most wars, as they were
generally way back behind the lines.

Hiding in the nice safe fortified "green zones"?
Sort of like the new "free speech zones" in the US & UK?

Do they get their pictures & fingerprints taken too?

Classic ADD. Can't stay on topic.

Snicker

Indeed.
What the stupid ******* doesnt understand..is first how the military
functions, and secondly..if they were all in the Green Zone..where are
all the casualites coming from?

Anytime they leave the fortifications to be met with open arms?
Rifles, bombs, rockets .....

Ive had the cocksucker kill filed for nearly 2 yrs now..and I dont
miss him a bit.

That's okay.
You almost always seem pretty silly spewing long-discredited BS,
propaganda & winger lies.
--
Cliff

Cliff wrote:

That's okay.
You almost always seem pretty silly spewing long-discredited BS,
propaganda & winger lies.
--
Cliff

Discredited?

Be careful of the propaganda that you choose to believe.

john wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:

Ever hear of HAARP?

John

Another thought, either mankind can't output enough energy into a "system"
to have any effect or there's the "Butterfly Fart" theory...I wish I knew
more about it.

Supposedly man can output enough freon, co2, or anything else to
effect a change in weather patterns but when he actually is trying to
do it everyone says it doesn't work.

John

Now, now, now. Don't go bringing the null hypothesis up. It will
confuse and confound the Kyoto groupies.

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:55:43 -0500, wrote:

Cliff wrote:

Cliff, just how many hot buttons do you have?

Found those "WMDs" yet?

[excerpt]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/694668.html

Hussein made the above statement at a meeting with leaders of the
Ba'ath Party, said Ali Hassan al-Majid, better known as Chemical Ali,
to American interrogators. Ali was in charge of using chemical weapons
against the Kurdish forces at the end of the 1980s.

I kind of forget .. what were the UN's inspectors saying? Just before the
shrubbie tossed them out just before the UN lifted the sanctions
(or was about to)?

And now you want to blame Israel for the shrubbie's stupidity & lies?

"According to Chemical Ali, Hussein was asked about the weapons during
a meeting with members of the Revolutionary Command Council. He
replied that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) but
flatly rejected a suggestion that the regime remove all doubts to the
contrary," the report states. Ali explained that such a declaration
could encourage Israel to attack, the report says.

The 100-page report has not been released yet, but some 9,000 words of
it are to appear in the next edition of Foreign Affairs Magazine.

[/excerpt]
--
Cliff

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:40:58 GMT, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

wrote:
Cliff wrote:

Found those "WMDs" yet?

[excerpt]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/694668.html

Hussein made the above statement at a meeting with leaders of the
Ba'ath Party, said Ali Hassan al-Majid, better known as Chemical
Ali, to American interrogators. Ali was in charge of using chemical
weapons against the Kurdish forces at the end of the 1980s.

I kind of forget .. what were the UN's inspectors saying? Just
before the shrubbie tossed them out just before the UN lifted the
sanctions (or was about to)?

Cliff, do you actually trust
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/

This just in
For all the talk about Bush's bubble, one has to wonder about the
translucent sphere in which Chris Matthews has been hanging out. The
president's job approval ratings have been in the negative range for almost
a year now, but Matthews -- who spends five nights a week talking about
politics on "Hardball" -- seems to be shocked by the news.

As Media Matters notes, Matthews was proclaiming as late as November that
"everybody sort of likes the president, except for the real whack-jobs,
maybe on the left." News to the contrary seemed to sink in for Matthews
earlier this week, when he had to come to terms with a Wall Street
Journal/NBC News Poll that found that 50 percent of the public has a
"somewhat negative" or "very negative" view of the president. Matthews read
the poll results on the air and declared himself "amazed."

Now, it seems, he's just bewildered. As we noted Thursday, respondents in a
new Pew Research Center poll used words liked "incompetent" to describe
Bush, and Matthews says he just can't believe it. "I checked this twice," he
said on last night's show. "I couldn't believe it, but it's true --
forty-eight percent of the people responding to this poll used such words as
'incompetent,' 'idiot,' and 'liar' to describe our president. Kate O'Beirne,
what happened to respect?"

We've got a different question to ask: What ever happened to having a clue?

-- Tim Grieve--

If only Gunner knew ....
--
Cliff