Hi all. This is my first post on this group.

I'm about to enter the world of metalworking. I've designed a few
pieces and need to cut them. I also don't want the expense of
contracting all my work out to a shop. I feel that getting my own mill
will pay off quickly as I won't be paying anyone for labor.

The pieces I need to mill are small--the biggest section is less than 4
inches in length. One piece of 6061 3/8" in diameter will need to be
turned on a lathe to get the ends down to an acceptable diameter.

I'm definitely one of those people that tries to choose quality first
and foremost. I don't need something big--yet. I just need something
small to get my parts into production. If I need to expand to bigger
tools, it'll be because my product is selling well, and I should be
able to afford it then :-)

Are there any small mills available that are considered to be good
accurate tools? Which brands/models would you suggest?

Thanks,

~jp

Jon R. Pickens wrote:

Hi all. This is my first post on this group.

I'm about to enter the world of metalworking. I've designed a few
pieces and need to cut them. I also don't want the expense of
contracting all my work out to a shop. I feel that getting my own mill
will pay off quickly as I won't be paying anyone for labor.

The pieces I need to mill are small--the biggest section is less than 4
inches in length. One piece of 6061 3/8" in diameter will need to be
turned on a lathe to get the ends down to an acceptable diameter.

I'm definitely one of those people that tries to choose quality first
and foremost. I don't need something big--yet. I just need something
small to get my parts into production. If I need to expand to bigger
tools, it'll be because my product is selling well, and I should be
able to afford it then :-)

I enjoy hearing these flights of hyperbolic self-justification. I remember back
when I used to think like this before I gave in and just spent all my money on
my shop. I'm sure that your $5k investment in your milling machine will pay back
Any Day Now. Mine's about to, No Really. :-)

Are there any small mills available that are considered to be good
accurate tools? Which brands/models would you suggest?

Accuracy is possible on the most miserable of machines. What you describe could
be done on a milling attachment in a lathe, and a small lathe can coexist with a
car in a one-car garage. I recommend 9-12" engine lathes made by South Bend,
Logan or Sheldon, but lots of guys give up in frustration when one doesn't fall
in their laps, and wind up buying Asian imports. Watch craigslist like a hawk.

And post your location. If you live near Taft, California, your machine sourcing
problems are nil, because you would have direct access to the worlds second best
scrounger.

GWE

Thanks, I'm in Atlanta, GA.

~jp

I'll bite, we know who lives in Taft so who beats Gunner for scrounging?

Grant Erwin wrote:
Jon R. Pickens wrote:

Hi all. This is my first post on this group.

I'm about to enter the world of metalworking. I've designed a few
pieces and need to cut them. I also don't want the expense of
contracting all my work out to a shop. I feel that getting my own mill
will pay off quickly as I won't be paying anyone for labor.

The pieces I need to mill are small--the biggest section is less than 4
inches in length. One piece of 6061 3/8" in diameter will need to be
turned on a lathe to get the ends down to an acceptable diameter.

I'm definitely one of those people that tries to choose quality first
and foremost. I don't need something big--yet. I just need something
small to get my parts into production. If I need to expand to bigger
tools, it'll be because my product is selling well, and I should be
able to afford it then :-)


I enjoy hearing these flights of hyperbolic self-justification. I
remember back when I used to think like this before I gave in and just
spent all my money on my shop. I'm sure that your $5k investment in your
milling machine will pay back Any Day Now. Mine's about to, No Really. :-)

Are there any small mills available that are considered to be good
accurate tools? Which brands/models would you suggest?


Accuracy is possible on the most miserable of machines. What you
describe could be done on a milling attachment in a lathe, and a small
lathe can coexist with a car in a one-car garage. I recommend 9-12"
engine lathes made by South Bend, Logan or Sheldon, but lots of guys
give up in frustration when one doesn't fall in their laps, and wind up
buying Asian imports. Watch craigslist like a hawk.

And post your location. If you live near Taft, California, your machine
sourcing problems are nil, because you would have direct access to the
worlds second best scrounger.

GWE

Jon R. Pickens wrote:
What you describe could be done on a milling attachment in a lathe

Good idea by the way... I think that may just be the ticket for what
I'm doing. It's small stuff.

I checked out a Taig mini-lathe. Neat stuff...

~jp

I've got one with the milling attachment etc. There is an active Yahoo
group for support.

Leon

How do you like the milling abilities? I plan on cutting 6061 with it.
I'll be starting with stock about 2.5 x 3.5" and about 3mm thick.
It'll have to be shaped, and a pattern cut into one face of it.

~jp

Moi, of course (blush) .. - GWE

RoyJ wrote:

I'll bite, we know who lives in Taft so who beats Gunner for scrounging?

Grant Erwin wrote:

Jon R. Pickens wrote:

Hi all. This is my first post on this group.

I'm about to enter the world of metalworking. I've designed a few
pieces and need to cut them. I also don't want the expense of
contracting all my work out to a shop. I feel that getting my own mill
will pay off quickly as I won't be paying anyone for labor.

The pieces I need to mill are small--the biggest section is less than 4
inches in length. One piece of 6061 3/8" in diameter will need to be
turned on a lathe to get the ends down to an acceptable diameter.

I'm definitely one of those people that tries to choose quality first
and foremost. I don't need something big--yet. I just need something
small to get my parts into production. If I need to expand to bigger
tools, it'll be because my product is selling well, and I should be
able to afford it then :-)



I enjoy hearing these flights of hyperbolic self-justification. I
remember back when I used to think like this before I gave in and just
spent all my money on my shop. I'm sure that your $5k investment in
your milling machine will pay back Any Day Now. Mine's about to, No
Really. :-)

Are there any small mills available that are considered to be good
accurate tools? Which brands/models would you suggest?



Accuracy is possible on the most miserable of machines. What you
describe could be done on a milling attachment in a lathe, and a small
lathe can coexist with a car in a one-car garage. I recommend 9-12"
engine lathes made by South Bend, Logan or Sheldon, but lots of guys
give up in frustration when one doesn't fall in their laps, and wind
up buying Asian imports. Watch craigslist like a hawk.

And post your location. If you live near Taft, California, your
machine sourcing problems are nil, because you would have direct
access to the worlds second best scrounger.

GWE

Jon R. Pickens wrote:
...
Are there any small mills available that are considered to be good
accurate tools? Which brands/models would you suggest?

I'll not answer your question, but give some advice (it's the RCM way):
There is a learning curve for using machine tools. Yeah, you knew
that. The consequence is that it may be a while before you can make the
parts that you need, depending upon the accuracy required. In other
words, it is unlikely that you can buy a lathe, chuck up your stock, and
right off expect to get the results you need.

Also: you may not even have thought of "accuracy required". It's
something that you absolutely have to do. All machining is about it,
hence design has to be too.

HTH and is not discouraging,
Bob

Jon R. Pickens wrote:
How do you like the milling abilities? I plan on cutting 6061 with it.
I'll be starting with stock about 2.5 x 3.5" and about 3mm thick.
It'll have to be shaped, and a pattern cut into one face of it.

~jp

I haven't used it a great deal. Because of the limited travel, it can
be a bit awkward. I'd ask on the group I mentioned. The Taig mill might
be more suitable, it is available with NC.

Leon

Jon R. Pickens wrote:
Hi all. This is my first post on this group.

I'm about to enter the world of metalworking. I've designed a few
pieces and need to cut them. I also don't want the expense of
contracting all my work out to a shop. I feel that getting my own mill
will pay off quickly as I won't be paying anyone for labor.

The pieces I need to mill are small--the biggest section is less than 4
inches in length. One piece of 6061 3/8" in diameter will need to be
turned on a lathe to get the ends down to an acceptable diameter.

I'm definitely one of those people that tries to choose quality first
and foremost. I don't need something big--yet. I just need something
small to get my parts into production. If I need to expand to bigger
tools, it'll be because my product is selling well, and I should be
able to afford it then :-)

Are there any small mills available that are considered to be good
accurate tools? Which brands/models would you suggest?

OK, I'll say it. Go buy a $400 Chinese mini-mill.
Lots of support, mods to your hearts content.
It will do what you need, and your work fits within it's work envelope.
If you also need a lathe, get a minilathe while you are at it.
Between the two, you can make almost anything up to a certain size.

LOL...thanks for the RCM treatment. I feel welcome now.

Yeah, I know there will be a learning curve, and I don't expect to slap
stock metal on the machine and turn out a working, finished piece the
first time out.

In terms of accuracy...there's room for a little slack. These parts
will not be used in an engine or anywhere that absolute precision
tolerances must be met.

Visually, the lines must be straight and the corners smooth and round,
but that's marketability--has nothing to do with its functionality.

The most accurate cuts will be lathed or drilled.

~jp

[Another approach would be to set up a Taig mill with a rotary table and
tailstock; this can be used somewhat like a lathe, but isn't limited to
radially-symetrical parts. Most people who get Taig equipment tend to like
it a lot; the same can't necessarily be said for the purchasers of Chinese
machine tools. The lathes are pretty small, and the milling attachments have
a limited range; the mills give you a lot more room to work with.]

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com


"Leon" wrote in message
ups.com...

Jon R. Pickens wrote:
What you describe could be done on a milling attachment in a lathe

Good idea by the way... I think that may just be the ticket for what
I'm doing. It's small stuff.

I checked out a Taig mini-lathe. Neat stuff...

~jp

I've got one with the milling attachment etc. There is an active Yahoo
group for support.

Leon

I've found a Taig CNC setup... I'm not looking to become a machinist
really, I more or less just want to manufacture in-house to save money.
I realize the initial startup would be more, but I do expect to make
out much better in the long run.

The mill I've found is currently new, on eBay. It's a 4-axis Taig,
with CNC...only thing missing is the software, which is downloadable.

Would CNC be better for me to ensure more accurate results?

Sorry if I come across as naive...I am!

~jp

I agree, for a first tool for a learner.
Reason: There's a fair chance that you'll damage something in the
learning phase. Well, I did anyway. When you get skill and confidence,
go for something better.
This especially applies if you're thinking of getting a quality,
out-of-production tool.

Safety first.

Rex B wrote:

OK, I'll say it. Go buy a $400 Chinese mini-mill.

He intends to use it in a low-volume production shop.
CNC upgrades are fairly inexpensive once he figures out how to get from
A to B and remove the right amount of metal between them.

Nearly any conceivable mod has already been figured out and documented
to death, on either machine.

Jordan wrote:
I agree, for a first tool for a learner.
Reason: There's a fair chance that you'll damage something in the
learning phase. Well, I did anyway. When you get skill and confidence,
go for something better.
This especially applies if you're thinking of getting a quality,
out-of-production tool.

Safety first.

Rex B wrote:

OK, I'll say it. Go buy a $400 Chinese mini-mill.

What do you guys think about the Taig mini-mill with CNC?

~jp

Jon R. Pickens wrote:
What do you guys think about the Taig mini-mill with CNC?

I have no experience at all with the Taig. I believe it is slightly
lighter and pricier than the minimill. i expect it is more of a
finished product out of the box, and can be ordered with facotry CNC.

Somewhere I have seen a website that compares the Taig to the Seig
minimill.

Rex

"Jon R. Pickens" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all. This is my first post on this group.

I'm about to enter the world of metalworking. I've designed a few
pieces and need to cut them. I also don't want the expense of
contracting all my work out to a shop. I feel that getting my own mill
will pay off quickly as I won't be paying anyone for labor.

The pieces I need to mill are small--the biggest section is less than 4
inches in length. One piece of 6061 3/8" in diameter will need to be
turned on a lathe to get the ends down to an acceptable diameter.

I'm definitely one of those people that tries to choose quality first
and foremost. I don't need something big--yet. I just need something
small to get my parts into production. If I need to expand to bigger
tools, it'll be because my product is selling well, and I should be
able to afford it then :-)

Are there any small mills available that are considered to be good
accurate tools? Which brands/models would you suggest?

When I got interested in the hobby a Sherline mill and lathe made sense to
me as I had no experience with machine tools and wanted something for which
parts were readily available and not too expensive in the event that
operator error made repairs or replacement necessary. They worked out well
for me until projects and experience demanded larger tools and the Sherlines
have now been largely replaced with a Clausing mill and lathe. The
Sherlines are still sitting on a shelf, though, as they are still useful.

"Jon R. Pickens" wrote in message
oups.com...
What do you guys think about the Taig mini-mill with CNC?

I've only idly thought about CNC and then only for mills, but in my mind it
makes a lot more sense to get the largest CNC tool you can afford, both in
terms of budget and space. CNC-ing my Sherline mill would be fun and not
too expensive but I'd be constantly frustrated at the small work envelope.

That might be even more important if you are thinking of producing
commercial parts in that a fairly large work envelope might let you make
several small parts at one setup.

Mike

"Jon R. Pickens" wrote in message
oups.com...
What do you guys think about the Taig mini-mill with CNC?

~jp

[CNC is the way to go. Unless you were an etch-a-sketch champion, there's no
way you can do the sort of things (diagonals and circles, not to mention
fancy 3d shapes) that you can do with CNC. While Taig offers its own CNC
option, you can save a little money by getting it CNC-ready and using a
3rd-party motor/controller system. Xylotex and Hobby CNC both get good
reviews. But I'd recommend against the E-bay 4-axis special; sticking a
chuck straight onto the end of a stepper motor is not nearly the same thing
as using a real rotary table. The one Taig supplies is made by Sherline
(another USA producer of quality miniature machine tools) and it's a very
nice piece of equipment, on a much different level than its superficially
similar Asian counterparts.]

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

"Jon R. Pickens" writes:

Hi all. This is my first post on this group.


Welcome.
Check out
http://www.mini-lathe.com
http://www.littlemachineshop.com

I found it useful.



--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.

Well good...the one I'm looking at has the Sherline table and a Xylotex
box!

~jp

Andrew Werby wrote:
[CNC is the way to go. Unless you were an etch-a-sketch champion, there's no
way you can do the sort of things (diagonals and circles, not to mention
fancy 3d shapes) that you can do with CNC. While Taig offers its own CNC
option, you can save a little money by getting it CNC-ready and using a
3rd-party motor/controller system. Xylotex and Hobby CNC both get good
reviews. But I'd recommend against the E-bay 4-axis special; sticking a
chuck straight onto the end of a stepper motor is not nearly the same thing
as using a real rotary table. The one Taig supplies is made by Sherline
(another USA producer of quality miniature machine tools) and it's a very
nice piece of equipment, on a much different level than its superficially
similar Asian counterparts.]

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

wrote:
Where do you find such a beastie as a $400 Chinese Mini-Mill?

Homier.com
Their freight is high, but if they have a tent sale near you you can get
for $399 plus local sales tax.
Mine was mismarked at $339, and they sold it for that.

The Eternal Squire

Rex B wrote:
Jon R. Pickens wrote:
Hi all. This is my first post on this group.

I'm about to enter the world of metalworking. I've designed a few
pieces and need to cut them. I also don't want the expense of
contracting all my work out to a shop. I feel that getting my own mill
will pay off quickly as I won't be paying anyone for labor.

The pieces I need to mill are small--the biggest section is less than 4
inches in length. One piece of 6061 3/8" in diameter will need to be
turned on a lathe to get the ends down to an acceptable diameter.

I'm definitely one of those people that tries to choose quality first
and foremost. I don't need something big--yet. I just need something
small to get my parts into production. If I need to expand to bigger
tools, it'll be because my product is selling well, and I should be
able to afford it then :-)

Are there any small mills available that are considered to be good
accurate tools? Which brands/models would you suggest?
OK, I'll say it. Go buy a $400 Chinese mini-mill.
Lots of support, mods to your hearts content.
It will do what you need, and your work fits within it's work envelope.
If you also need a lathe, get a minilathe while you are at it.
Between the two, you can make almost anything up to a certain size.

Thanks to all who applied... I've pretty much settled on a Taig CNC
setup with the Sherline table...

~jp

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:08:16 -0800, Grant Erwin
wrote:

Moi, of course (blush) .. - GWE

Oddly enough..Grants got stuff from me..and I dont recall getting
stuff from him..so perhaps he IS a better scrounger...

G

Gunner


RoyJ wrote:

I'll bite, we know who lives in Taft so who beats Gunner for scrounging?

Grant Erwin wrote:

Jon R. Pickens wrote:

Hi all. This is my first post on this group.

I'm about to enter the world of metalworking. I've designed a few
pieces and need to cut them. I also don't want the expense of
contracting all my work out to a shop. I feel that getting my own mill
will pay off quickly as I won't be paying anyone for labor.

The pieces I need to mill are small--the biggest section is less than 4
inches in length. One piece of 6061 3/8" in diameter will need to be
turned on a lathe to get the ends down to an acceptable diameter.

I'm definitely one of those people that tries to choose quality first
and foremost. I don't need something big--yet. I just need something
small to get my parts into production. If I need to expand to bigger
tools, it'll be because my product is selling well, and I should be
able to afford it then :-)



I enjoy hearing these flights of hyperbolic self-justification. I
remember back when I used to think like this before I gave in and just
spent all my money on my shop. I'm sure that your $5k investment in
your milling machine will pay back Any Day Now. Mine's about to, No
Really. :-)

Are there any small mills available that are considered to be good
accurate tools? Which brands/models would you suggest?



Accuracy is possible on the most miserable of machines. What you
describe could be done on a milling attachment in a lathe, and a small
lathe can coexist with a car in a one-car garage. I recommend 9-12"
engine lathes made by South Bend, Logan or Sheldon, but lots of guys
give up in frustration when one doesn't fall in their laps, and wind
up buying Asian imports. Watch craigslist like a hawk.

And post your location. If you live near Taft, California, your
machine sourcing problems are nil, because you would have direct
access to the worlds second best scrounger.

GWE



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

I would suggest sherline. Good support and small size

I live near Gallup. Where would thier nearest tent be?

The Eternal Squire wrote:

I live near Gallup. Where would thier nearest tent be?

You have to sign in on their site and watch the notifications--it moves
every weekend.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)