Awl--

I've sort of posted on this before, but I've got a little more experience
now, hopefully will get a few more tips.

First, let me address Bottle:
Yeah, Bottle, I know, *buy* the goddamm detent pin, already, buy it....
But, really, I can't... really... or...

I'm trying to retain a 3/32 ball in a 1/4" OD detent pin (brass), w/ a 1/8
inside shaft (steel). If you run the numbers, you'll see I've got .015
leeway (before the hole lip encounters the full diameter of the ball), ito
peining over the lip of the hole to retain the ball--not a whole lot, but
theoretically enough.
After sufficient agony, I *can* get this thing to work. But it *is* an
ordeal.
I can make my life easier w/ .118 (3 mm) steel rod (more leeway), but I
think I should be able to get the 1/8 to work.

I think I've narrowed the problem to punch geometry ito of giving a "proper"
lip on the hole, and the Q is:
What type/geometry of punch/set is best to use?

Initially I used a piece of 5/32 drill rod, turned down near the end to
about .125, and then a nub to .089 or so (to "locate" the punch in the .096
hole), and then would whack it.
Problem is, the ball most often would not protrude as it should, and thus
wouldn't clear the inside 1/8 shaft, without a (w)hole lot of hassle.

What I'm doing now, with better results is this:

Instead of turning down the punch/set w/ a 90 deg. tool, I angle the tool
5-10 deg, giving me a slight cone, so that the punch just doesn't mash the
material flat and downward, but sort of pinches the top of the mat'l inward
more than downward, allowing more protrusion of the ball.
When you look at the pin, you now see more of a "cut" around the ball hole,
rather than a just a depressed area where the punch impacted.

Better results, but still a little persnickety.

I know I can affect the "pinch" effects of this punch by varying the angle
of the cone, and the diameter--maybe pinching more toward the edge will be
better, etc.

Am I on the right track here? Is there any literature on ball retention
techniques?

What I'm tempted to do is a machining solution::
Drill a thru hole of about .085-.090, and then c-bore a .096 hole, stopping
just short to leave just enough lip to retain the ball properly.
Problem w/ this is you need some perty accurate fixtures and a very good Z,
and my limited skill set is strained as it is....

Any opinions on this machining method vs. the peining methods?? Axing for
trouble machining the lip, or go for it?

If I still have problems, I may just have to go with a .118 (3 mm) shaft, to
give me a little more room to play with, peining-wise.
Good way to go? Am I un-necessarily killing myself w/ the 1/8 shaft ito of
narrow leeway for the lip?

Appreciate all input.

--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Awl--

I've sort of posted on this before, but I've got a little more experience
now, hopefully will get a few more tips.

First, let me address Bottle:
Yeah, Bottle, I know, *buy* the goddamm detent pin, already, buy it....
But, really, I can't... really... or...

I'm trying to retain a 3/32 ball in a 1/4" OD detent pin (brass), w/ a 1/8
inside shaft (steel). If you run the numbers, you'll see I've got .015
leeway (before the hole lip encounters the full diameter of the ball), ito
peining over the lip of the hole to retain the ball--not a whole lot, but
theoretically enough.
After sufficient agony, I *can* get this thing to work. But it *is* an
ordeal.
I can make my life easier w/ .118 (3 mm) steel rod (more leeway), but I
think I should be able to get the 1/8 to work.

I think I've narrowed the problem to punch geometry ito of giving a
"proper"
lip on the hole, and the Q is:
What type/geometry of punch/set is best to use?

Initially I used a piece of 5/32 drill rod, turned down near the end to
about .125, and then a nub to .089 or so (to "locate" the punch in the
..096
hole), and then would whack it.
Problem is, the ball most often would not protrude as it should, and thus
wouldn't clear the inside 1/8 shaft, without a (w)hole lot of hassle.

What I'm doing now, with better results is this:

Instead of turning down the punch/set w/ a 90 deg. tool, I angle the tool
5-10 deg, giving me a slight cone, so that the punch just doesn't mash the
material flat and downward, but sort of pinches the top of the mat'l
inward
more than downward, allowing more protrusion of the ball.
When you look at the pin, you now see more of a "cut" around the ball
hole,
rather than a just a depressed area where the punch impacted.

Better results, but still a little persnickety.

I know I can affect the "pinch" effects of this punch by varying the angle
of the cone, and the diameter--maybe pinching more toward the edge will be
better, etc.

Am I on the right track here? Is there any literature on ball retention
techniques?

What I'm tempted to do is a machining solution::
Drill a thru hole of about .085-.090, and then c-bore a .096 hole,
stopping
just short to leave just enough lip to retain the ball properly.
Problem w/ this is you need some perty accurate fixtures and a very good
Z,
and my limited skill set is strained as it is....

Any opinions on this machining method vs. the peining methods?? Axing for
trouble machining the lip, or go for it?

If I still have problems, I may just have to go with a .118 (3 mm) shaft,
to
give me a little more room to play with, peining-wise.
Good way to go? Am I un-necessarily killing myself w/ the 1/8 shaft ito
of
narrow leeway for the lip?

Appreciate all input.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=4602923877

--

SVL

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

Instead of turning down the punch/set w/ a 90 deg. tool, I angle the tool
5-10 deg, giving me a slight cone,

A slight cone is not enough. Try it with something looking like the hole
punches for paper/sealing paper. 30 deg of the "cutting" cone. The tip
of the cone being slighly radiused.

Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
DIY-DRO - YADRO - Eigenbau-Digitalanzeige

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 02:22:42 -0500, "Proctologically Violated©®"
wrote:

Appreciate all input.

sigh!!

You're trolling. Right?? TURN A LIP ON THE BLOODY THING
*BEFORE* YOU WAG IT!!!

Turn a 45degree *outside* taper on the end of the screw. The taper should
just touch the hole. Now flatten the sharp lip by tapping it lightly with a
hammer - The edge will fold from outside in, resulting in a nice, sharp step.

Then hit your thump vigorously with the hammer as a penalty for not listening
to the smart folks, who told you to just buy the friggin' detent screws..!
--
- JN -

How about putting the punch in your drill press and spinning the lip. I
think it wouldn't take that much pressure and give you more control.
Karl

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Awl--

I've sort of posted on this before, but I've got a little more experience
now, hopefully will get a few more tips.

First, let me address Bottle:
Yeah, Bottle, I know, *buy* the goddamm detent pin, already, buy it....
But, really, I can't... really... or...

I'm trying to retain a 3/32 ball in a 1/4" OD detent pin (brass), w/ a 1/8
inside shaft (steel). If you run the numbers, you'll see I've got .015
leeway (before the hole lip encounters the full diameter of the ball), ito
peining over the lip of the hole to retain the ball--not a whole lot, but
theoretically enough.
After sufficient agony, I *can* get this thing to work. But it *is* an
ordeal.
I can make my life easier w/ .118 (3 mm) steel rod (more leeway), but I
think I should be able to get the 1/8 to work.

I think I've narrowed the problem to punch geometry ito of giving a
"proper"
lip on the hole, and the Q is:
What type/geometry of punch/set is best to use?

Initially I used a piece of 5/32 drill rod, turned down near the end to
about .125, and then a nub to .089 or so (to "locate" the punch in the
..096
hole), and then would whack it.
Problem is, the ball most often would not protrude as it should, and thus
wouldn't clear the inside 1/8 shaft, without a (w)hole lot of hassle.

What I'm doing now, with better results is this:

Instead of turning down the punch/set w/ a 90 deg. tool, I angle the tool
5-10 deg, giving me a slight cone, so that the punch just doesn't mash the
material flat and downward, but sort of pinches the top of the mat'l
inward
more than downward, allowing more protrusion of the ball.
When you look at the pin, you now see more of a "cut" around the ball
hole,
rather than a just a depressed area where the punch impacted.

Better results, but still a little persnickety.

I know I can affect the "pinch" effects of this punch by varying the angle
of the cone, and the diameter--maybe pinching more toward the edge will be
better, etc.

Am I on the right track here? Is there any literature on ball retention
techniques?

What I'm tempted to do is a machining solution::
Drill a thru hole of about .085-.090, and then c-bore a .096 hole,
stopping
just short to leave just enough lip to retain the ball properly.
Problem w/ this is you need some perty accurate fixtures and a very good
Z,
and my limited skill set is strained as it is....

Any opinions on this machining method vs. the peining methods?? Axing for
trouble machining the lip, or go for it?

If I still have problems, I may just have to go with a .118 (3 mm) shaft,
to
give me a little more room to play with, peining-wise.
Good way to go? Am I un-necessarily killing myself w/ the 1/8 shaft ito
of
narrow leeway for the lip?

Appreciate all input.

--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Awl--


Am I on the right track here? Is there any literature on ball retention
techniques?

Gotta be a joke in there somewhere?


--
Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude ©
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World
http://www.pulsareng.com/

"Garlicdude" wrote in message
...
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Awl--


Am I on the right track here? Is there any literature on ball retention
techniques?

Gotta be a joke in there somewhere?

Just me busting my goddamm ass, w/ a touch of Tourette's Syndrome--in
diapers and bunny slippers, of course.
You did see my x-ray, right??
Thus, I work even *slower* than before, iffin dats possible.....
And moan more....

Wife sez, coming home from work at midnight, Fergodsakes, I can hear you all
the way out in the g-d street! No wonder we don't have any friends....
Ergo her appreciation of the carpeting....

But, back on topic, any idea of search *terms* for this operation, just in
case some miserable soul w/ no life put up a page or sumpn on how *he* did
this?
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll



--
Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude ©
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World
http://www.pulsareng.com/

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
"Garlicdude" wrote in message
...
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Awl--


Am I on the right track here? Is there any literature on ball
retention techniques?

Gotta be a joke in there somewhere?

Just me busting my goddamm ass, w/ a touch of Tourette's Syndrome--in
diapers and bunny slippers, of course.
You did see my x-ray, right??
Thus, I work even *slower* than before, iffin dats possible.....
And moan more....

Wife sez, coming home from work at midnight, Fergodsakes, I can hear
you all the way out in the g-d street! No wonder we don't have any
friends.... Ergo her appreciation of the carpeting....

But, back on topic, any idea of search *terms* for this operation,
just in case some miserable soul w/ no life put up a page or sumpn on
how *he* did this?


Swaging

--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
"Garlicdude" wrote in message
...
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Awl--
Am I on the right track here? Is there any literature on ball retention
techniques?
Gotta be a joke in there somewhere?

Just me busting my goddamm ass, w/ a touch of Tourette's Syndrome--in
diapers and bunny slippers, of course.
You did see my x-ray, right??
Thus, I work even *slower* than before, iffin dats possible.....
And moan more....

Wife sez, coming home from work at midnight, Fergodsakes, I can hear you all
the way out in the g-d street! No wonder we don't have any friends....
Ergo her appreciation of the carpeting....

But, back on topic, any idea of search *terms* for this operation, just in
case some miserable soul w/ no life put up a page or sumpn on how *he* did
this?



How about a roller bearing in a lathe toolholder and swaging the end
over with the roller bearing as the part is rotating slowly?

--
Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude ©
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World
http://www.pulsareng.com/

"Garlicdude" wrote in message
...
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Awl--


Am I on the right track here? Is there any literature on ball retention
techniques?

Gotta be a joke in there somewhere?


Hi, Steve.

Suggest maybe take a cold shower.....

--

SVL

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:35:05 -0800, Garlicdude
wrote:

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
"Garlicdude" wrote in message
...
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Awl--
Am I on the right track here? Is there any literature on ball retention
techniques?
Gotta be a joke in there somewhere?

Just me busting my goddamm ass, w/ a touch of Tourette's Syndrome--in
diapers and bunny slippers, of course.
You did see my x-ray, right??
Thus, I work even *slower* than before, iffin dats possible.....
And moan more....

Wife sez, coming home from work at midnight, Fergodsakes, I can hear you all
the way out in the g-d street! No wonder we don't have any friends....
Ergo her appreciation of the carpeting....

But, back on topic, any idea of search *terms* for this operation, just in
case some miserable soul w/ no life put up a page or sumpn on how *he* did
this?



How about a roller bearing in a lathe toolholder and swaging the end
over with the roller bearing as the part is rotating slowly?

I expect that these things will sell for about US$ 5,000 to old
yuppies ... G.
--
Cliff