IIRC US machine tool orders are way down for the third month in a
row .... is it a seasonal effect? Or just more foreshadowings of doom?
--
Cliff

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:00:27 -0500, Cliff wrote:

IIRC US machine tool orders are way down for the third month in a
row .... is it a seasonal effect? Or just more foreshadowings of doom?
--
Cliff


Cliff,

In the first 11 months of 2004, machine tool demand stood at $2.670
billion, up 43 percent from $1.867 billion in the same 2003 period,
the data show.

The machine tools report is generally based on a survey of about 200
manufacturers, distributors and importers of machine tools that
represent 76 percent of the machine tool market.

Manufacturing industry optimism continued to pay dividends for
equipment builders as sales of US machine tools in September reached
the highest level in four years. With September sales totaling $389.20
million, machine tool builders saw an increase in sales of 74.6% over
$222.86 million reported for September 2003, according to the latest
figures of the US Machine Tool Consumption (USMTC) report released by
the American Machine Tool Distributors' Association (AMTDA, Rockville,
MD) and AMT--The Association For Manufacturing Technology (McLean,
VA).

The latest report showed sales rose 89.8% in September compared to
August sales of $205.01 million, and the 2004 year-to-date total of
$2146.95 million rose 42.2% versus 2003 sales of $1509.41 million
through September. The figures are based on the totals of actual data
reported by companies participating in the USMTC program.

"Manufacturing in the US continues to show signs of a strong
comeback," according to AMTDA President Ralph J. Nappi. "Machine tool
orders in September hit their highest level in four years with all
regions of the country showing growth."

Regional sales showed strong overall gains paced by robust
improvements in the West Region, which totaled September sales of
$56.07 million, an increase of 72.1% over $32.59 million in August
sales and a 196.1% leap over the September 2003 total of $18.94
million. The West Region's year-to-date total of $279.39 million rose
89.6% over September 2003 sales of $147.33 million.

In the Midwest, September sales of $162.77 million rose 156.5% over
the prior month's $63.47 million in sales and increased 46.6% compared
with sales of $111.03 million during September 2003. With a
year-to-date total of $853.66 million, the Midwest region is 43.2%
ahead of $595.99 in sales through September 2003.


No gloom in this report:

http://www.sme.org/gmn/mag/2005/05jam002/05jam002.html

Regards


Daveb

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:29:19 GMT, (DaveB) wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:00:27 -0500, Cliff wrote:

IIRC US machine tool orders are way down for the third month in a
row .... is it a seasonal effect? Or just more foreshadowings of doom?
--
Cliff


Cliff,

In the first 11 months of 2004, machine tool demand stood at $2.670
billion, up 43 percent from $1.867 billion in the same 2003 period,
the data show.

The machine tools report is generally based on a survey of about 200
manufacturers, distributors and importers of machine tools that
represent 76 percent of the machine tool market.

Manufacturing industry optimism continued to pay dividends for
equipment builders as sales of US machine tools in September reached
the highest level in four years. With September sales totaling $389.20
million, machine tool builders saw an increase in sales of 74.6% over
$222.86 million reported for September 2003, according to the latest
figures of the US Machine Tool Consumption (USMTC) report released by
the American Machine Tool Distributors' Association (AMTDA, Rockville,
MD) and AMT--The Association For Manufacturing Technology (McLean,
VA).

The latest report showed sales rose 89.8% in September compared to
August sales of $205.01 million, and the 2004 year-to-date total of
$2146.95 million rose 42.2% versus 2003 sales of $1509.41 million
through September. The figures are based on the totals of actual data
reported by companies participating in the USMTC program.

"Manufacturing in the US continues to show signs of a strong
comeback," according to AMTDA President Ralph J. Nappi. "Machine tool
orders in September hit their highest level in four years with all
regions of the country showing growth."

Regional sales showed strong overall gains paced by robust
improvements in the West Region, which totaled September sales of
$56.07 million, an increase of 72.1% over $32.59 million in August
sales and a 196.1% leap over the September 2003 total of $18.94
million. The West Region's year-to-date total of $279.39 million rose
89.6% over September 2003 sales of $147.33 million.

In the Midwest, September sales of $162.77 million rose 156.5% over
the prior month's $63.47 million in sales and increased 46.6% compared
with sales of $111.03 million during September 2003. With a
year-to-date total of $853.66 million, the Midwest region is 43.2%
ahead of $595.99 in sales through September 2003.


No gloom in this report:

http://www.sme.org/gmn/mag/2005/05jam002/05jam002.html

Regards


Daveb

Dave,
Your material seems to end in September.
The report I mentioned was for the last three months:
October, November & December ... ?
--
Cliff

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:53:13 -0500, Cliff wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:29:19 GMT, (DaveB) wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:00:27 -0500, Cliff wrote:

IIRC US machine tool orders are way down for the third month in a
row .... is it a seasonal effect? Or just more foreshadowings of doom?
--
Cliff


Cliff,

In the first 11 months of 2004, machine tool demand stood at $2.670
billion, up 43 percent from $1.867 billion in the same 2003 period,
the data show.

The machine tools report is generally based on a survey of about 200
manufacturers, distributors and importers of machine tools that
represent 76 percent of the machine tool market.

Manufacturing industry optimism continued to pay dividends for
equipment builders as sales of US machine tools in September reached
the highest level in four years. With September sales totaling $389.20
million, machine tool builders saw an increase in sales of 74.6% over
$222.86 million reported for September 2003, according to the latest
figures of the US Machine Tool Consumption (USMTC) report released by
the American Machine Tool Distributors' Association (AMTDA, Rockville,
MD) and AMT--The Association For Manufacturing Technology (McLean,
VA).

The latest report showed sales rose 89.8% in September compared to
August sales of $205.01 million, and the 2004 year-to-date total of
$2146.95 million rose 42.2% versus 2003 sales of $1509.41 million
through September. The figures are based on the totals of actual data
reported by companies participating in the USMTC program.

"Manufacturing in the US continues to show signs of a strong
comeback," according to AMTDA President Ralph J. Nappi. "Machine tool
orders in September hit their highest level in four years with all
regions of the country showing growth."

Regional sales showed strong overall gains paced by robust
improvements in the West Region, which totaled September sales of
$56.07 million, an increase of 72.1% over $32.59 million in August
sales and a 196.1% leap over the September 2003 total of $18.94
million. The West Region's year-to-date total of $279.39 million rose
89.6% over September 2003 sales of $147.33 million.

In the Midwest, September sales of $162.77 million rose 156.5% over
the prior month's $63.47 million in sales and increased 46.6% compared
with sales of $111.03 million during September 2003. With a
year-to-date total of $853.66 million, the Midwest region is 43.2%
ahead of $595.99 in sales through September 2003.


No gloom in this report:

http://www.sme.org/gmn/mag/2005/05jam002/05jam002.html

Regards


Daveb

Dave,
Your material seems to end in September.
The report I mentioned was for the last three months:
October, November & December ... ?
--
Cliff
Do you have the figures for the last quarter?

Regards
Daveb

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:58:14 GMT, (DaveB) wrote:

Dave,
Your material seems to end in September.
The report I mentioned was for the last three months:
October, November & December ... ?

Do you have the figures for the last quarter?

Not right off. A search someplace might find them.
I just caught a bit of a news report a few days ago.
--
Cliff

DaveB wrote in message ...
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:00:27 -0500, Cliff wrote:

No gloom in this report:

http://www.sme.org/gmn/mag/2005/05jam002/05jam002.html

Regards


Daveb

There never is. g SME and AMTDA use the same data, but SME's reported
figures for the last four years or so have lagged those of the AMTDA.

The YTD and moving-average figures look good overall. But the last few
months of last year appear to have fallen off. Here's what AMTDA says:

"November U.S. machine tool consumption totaled $245.04 million, according
to AMTDA, the American Machine Tool Distributors' Association, and AMT - The
Association For Manufacturing Technology. This total, as reported by
companies participating in the USMTC program, was down 2.5% from October and
down 6.9% from the total of $263.17 million reported for November 2004. With
a year-to-date total of $2,766.59 million, 2005 was up 8.3% compared with
2004."

http://www.amtda.org/usmtc/index.htm

I'd look at the moving averages more than the current-month, and those
numbers seem to reflect a boost in defense-related spending. You'd have to
look at Commerce Dept. figures to see what segments are up and down, to see
if there's broad-based strength in the parts market.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:00:49 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

November U.S. machine tool consumption

Consumption would be shipped?
As compared to new orders?
I'm not certain which end of the report I got in passing
(new orders or shipped).
--
Cliff

"Cliff" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:00:49 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

November U.S. machine tool consumption

Consumption would be shipped?
As compared to new orders?

I forget what they use. I think it's shipments. The AMT or SME may say on
their websites.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in news:NhCxf.292$r_4.141
@fe09.lga:

"Cliff" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:00:49 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

November U.S. machine tool consumption

Consumption would be shipped?
As compared to new orders?

I forget what they use. I think it's shipments. The AMT or SME may say on
their websites.


USMTC is orders booked. Sales were down slightly over the last quarter. But
they are still way better than earlier in the decade. According to the more
detailed USMTC data that we get turning was down a bit more than milling.
The Midwest dropped off after news of Delphi and GM's troubles. From what
I'm seeing so far January will be strong. It seems like there was a couple
of three months of hand wringing and now it's "WHEN CAN YOU GET IT
HERE!!!!"


--

Dan

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:00:49 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

November

Then there's December ....
--
Cliff

Cliff wrote in news:gsrds1hj636ug3jegsm6fftb0pok8m74rs@
4ax.com:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:00:49 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

November

Then there's December ....

December sucked, but the data hasn't been released yet.

--

Dan

On 13 Jan 2006 05:43:27 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in news:gsrds1hj636ug3jegsm6fftb0pok8m74rs@
4ax.com:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:00:49 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

November

Then there's December ....

December sucked, but the data hasn't been released yet.

The news report I heard in passing was for the last 3 months
including December IIRC.
You are probably much closer to the sources though g.
--
Cliff

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:29:19 GMT, (DaveB) wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:00:27 -0500, Cliff wrote:

IIRC US machine tool orders are way down for the third month in a
row .... is it a seasonal effect? Or just more foreshadowings of doom?
--
Cliff


Cliff,

In the first 11 months of 2004, machine tool demand stood at $2.670
billion, up 43 percent from $1.867 billion in the same 2003 period,
the data show.

The machine tools report is generally based on a survey of about 200
manufacturers, distributors and importers of machine tools that
represent 76 percent of the machine tool market.

Manufacturing industry optimism continued to pay dividends for
equipment builders as sales of US machine tools in September reached
the highest level in four years. With September sales totaling $389.20
million, machine tool builders saw an increase in sales of 74.6% over
$222.86 million reported for September 2003, according to the latest
figures of the US Machine Tool Consumption (USMTC) report released by
the American Machine Tool Distributors' Association (AMTDA, Rockville,
MD) and AMT--The Association For Manufacturing Technology (McLean,
VA).

The latest report showed sales rose 89.8% in September compared to
August sales of $205.01 million, and the 2004 year-to-date total of
$2146.95 million rose 42.2% versus 2003 sales of $1509.41 million
through September. The figures are based on the totals of actual data
reported by companies participating in the USMTC program.

"Manufacturing in the US continues to show signs of a strong
comeback," according to AMTDA President Ralph J. Nappi. "Machine tool
orders in September hit their highest level in four years with all
regions of the country showing growth."

Regional sales showed strong overall gains paced by robust
improvements in the West Region, which totaled September sales of
$56.07 million, an increase of 72.1% over $32.59 million in August
sales and a 196.1% leap over the September 2003 total of $18.94
million. The West Region's year-to-date total of $279.39 million rose
89.6% over September 2003 sales of $147.33 million.

In the Midwest, September sales of $162.77 million rose 156.5% over
the prior month's $63.47 million in sales and increased 46.6% compared
with sales of $111.03 million during September 2003. With a
year-to-date total of $853.66 million, the Midwest region is 43.2%
ahead of $595.99 in sales through September 2003.


No gloom in this report:

http://www.sme.org/gmn/mag/2005/05jam002/05jam002.html

Regards


Daveb


Its all Bush's Fault!!!!!


Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

They are not the biggest, but Haas has been increasing sales every
year- and 40% of their sales are exports, much of it to China.
There are a couple of hundred companies left in the USA that make
various sorts of machine tools- but almost none make manual lathes or
mills-
Bridgeport, owned by Hardinge, makes mills here, and they say they will
make you an HLV- if you have 60 grand or so. Monarch mostly repairs and
rebuilds.
Ingersoll Rand is owned by an Italian family, but they still build big
machines to order.
A variety of other specialty companies make ironworkers, bandsaws,
grinders, sanders, presses, lasers, and so on.
Welders are still made here by Lincoln, Miller, and Esab.

There sure arent as many manufacturers as there used to be, and a lot
of low end stuff comes from china, and high end stuff from europe or
japan. But there still is some stuff made here.

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:00:27 -0500, Cliff wrote:

IIRC US machine tool orders are way down for the third month in a
row .... is it a seasonal effect? Or just more foreshadowings of doom?
--
Cliff


The U.S. machine tool market finished the year 2004 with orders more
than 40 percent above 2003 levels and shipments up 25 percent.
Consumption, whether measured by orders or shipments, had fallen more
than 60 percent from its peaks in 1998. Strong growth over the past
two years still leaves the U.S. manufacturing technology market at
less than 60 percent of its peak in 1998.

The short-term prospects are promising. The consensus outlook among
analysts who follow the U.S. manufacturing technology market on a
regular basis indicates a continued rise in orders this year. The
optimistic forecast is for double-digit growth in 2005 while forecasts
for the following years diverge. Many of the analysts feel that the
best opportunities are in the present, and that some sectors in the
manufacturing technology markets will begin to slow as early as 2006.

The signs of a recovery in capital spending have been clear for
several years. The traditional signals for an imminent increase in
capital spending are capacity utilization and the Purchasing Managers’
Index (PMI), an independent survey of manufacturers’ buying plans.
Both of these began moving upwards in the second quarter of 2003. The
capacity utilization index for durable manufacturing turned upward in
April 2003, and the PMI index rose to over 50 (a signal of increased
spending & growth in manufacturing) in May 2003.

Key customer markets -- such as autos, off-road and highway
construction equipment, and appliances -- have seen growth in U.S.
consumer demand slow down in recent months. The outlook for expansion
of capacity to supply a growing U.S. demand for durable goods is
weakening. The key to a continuation of the capital-spending boom will
depend upon the fortunes of the export markets for U.S.-built capital
goods and non-traditional, but expanding, domestic markets such as the
medical equipment industry.

The weakened dollar and the elimination of punitive tariffs on U.S.
goods shipped to the European Union (EU) have made U.S. products much
more attractive in Western European markets. Exports of both
manufactured products and manufacturing technology equipment
illustrate the temporary competitive advantages provided by exchange
rates shifts. Expectations are that the dollar will steady against the
European currencies this year, but fall further against Asian
currencies.

The resulting implicit price cut in U.S. durable goods could spark a
renewed need for capital equipment by U.S. manufacturers supplying
Asian markets. The weakened dollar relative to Asian currencies is
likely to also lead to increased exports of U.S. manufacturing
technology, as these products will also be less expensive relative to
comparable European and Japanese products in Asian markets.

Still a leader

America continues to excel in important categories, including:
metrology; composite tape-laying machines; transfer lines and systems;
small, medium and large-size CNC machining centers; spar and skin
mills for aircraft components; abrasive flow machining for difficult
finishing problems; CNC turning centers; assembly systems; grinding
machines; punch presses for materials over 60 mm thick; and spiral
bevel and parallel axis gear-making machinery. In addition, the U.S.
holds a leadership position in water jet cutting and laser processing
machines, as well as in the technology for developing small assembly
robots.

The United States leads in the development and production of machines
to produce parts using the process of stereolithography. Work
continues to enable a broader selection of materials. Other new
technologies build metal components by selectively binding metal
powder layer by layer.

The United States also leads in the introduction of open architecture
controls which provide users with a wider choice of communication
interfaces and the ability to develop their own proprietary
applications.

These trends will be seen at the next International Manufacturing
Technology Show (IMTS), September 6-13, 2006, at Chicago’s McCormick
Place. The newest manufacturing technology equipment from around the
world will be seen by close to 100,000 visitors.

The U.S. industry’s trade group is AMT-The Association For
Manufacturing Technology (founded in 1902 as the National Machine Tool
Builders' Association). The association supports and promotes the U.S.
manufacturing technology industry and provides U.S. builders of
manufacturing systems with the latest information on technical
developments, training methods, trade and marketing opportunities, and
economic issues. It also gathers and disseminates information about
world markets, promotes its members' products in those markets, and
acts as a representative on manufacturing technology matters to
governments and trade organizations throughout the world.

In 1993, AMT opened an office in Beijing — the first trade association
to establish a presence in the vast China market. The association also
has offices in Shanghai and Guangzhou, and last year opened a
USA/Technology and Service Center in Shanghai. It also has an office
and Technical Center in Monterrey, Mexico. Visit www.AMTonline.org for
updated information


Regards
Daveb

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:50:23 GMT, (DaveB) wrote:

The optimistic forecast is for double-digit growth in 2005

Last year .... IIRC g.
--
Cliff

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:02:32 -0500, Cliff wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:50:23 GMT, (DaveB) wrote:

The optimistic forecast is for double-digit growth in 2005

Last year .... IIRC g.
--
Cliff
LMAO

Regards
Daveb

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:50:23 GMT, (DaveB) wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:00:27 -0500, Cliff wrote:

IIRC US machine tool orders are way down for the third month in a
row .... is it a seasonal effect? Or just more foreshadowings of doom?
--
Cliff


The U.S. machine tool market finished the year 2004 with orders more
than 40 percent above 2003 levels and shipments up 25 percent.
Consumption, whether measured by orders or shipments, had fallen more
than 60 percent from its peaks in 1998. Strong growth over the past
two years still leaves the U.S. manufacturing technology market at
less than 60 percent of its peak in 1998.

The short-term prospects are promising. The consensus outlook among
analysts who follow the U.S. manufacturing technology market on a
regular basis indicates a continued rise in orders this year. The
optimistic forecast is for double-digit growth in 2005 while forecasts
for the following years diverge. Many of the analysts feel that the
best opportunities are in the present, and that some sectors in the
manufacturing technology markets will begin to slow as early as 2006.

The signs of a recovery in capital spending have been clear for
several years. The traditional signals for an imminent increase in
capital spending are capacity utilization and the Purchasing Managers’
Index (PMI), an independent survey of manufacturers’ buying plans.
Both of these began moving upwards in the second quarter of 2003. The
capacity utilization index for durable manufacturing turned upward in
April 2003, and the PMI index rose to over 50 (a signal of increased
spending & growth in manufacturing) in May 2003.

Key customer markets -- such as autos, off-road and highway
construction equipment, and appliances -- have seen growth in U.S.
consumer demand slow down in recent months. The outlook for expansion
of capacity to supply a growing U.S. demand for durable goods is
weakening. The key to a continuation of the capital-spending boom will
depend upon the fortunes of the export markets for U.S.-built capital
goods and non-traditional, but expanding, domestic markets such as the
medical equipment industry.

The weakened dollar and the elimination of punitive tariffs on U.S.
goods shipped to the European Union (EU) have made U.S. products much
more attractive in Western European markets. Exports of both
manufactured products and manufacturing technology equipment
illustrate the temporary competitive advantages provided by exchange
rates shifts. Expectations are that the dollar will steady against the
European currencies this year, but fall further against Asian
currencies.

The resulting implicit price cut in U.S. durable goods could spark a
renewed need for capital equipment by U.S. manufacturers supplying
Asian markets. The weakened dollar relative to Asian currencies is
likely to also lead to increased exports of U.S. manufacturing
technology, as these products will also be less expensive relative to
comparable European and Japanese products in Asian markets.

Still a leader

America continues to excel in important categories, including:
metrology; composite tape-laying machines; transfer lines and systems;
small, medium and large-size CNC machining centers; spar and skin
mills for aircraft components; abrasive flow machining for difficult
finishing problems; CNC turning centers; assembly systems; grinding
machines; punch presses for materials over 60 mm thick; and spiral
bevel and parallel axis gear-making machinery. In addition, the U.S.
holds a leadership position in water jet cutting and laser processing
machines, as well as in the technology for developing small assembly
robots.

The United States leads in the development and production of machines
to produce parts using the process of stereolithography. Work
continues to enable a broader selection of materials. Other new
technologies build metal components by selectively binding metal
powder layer by layer.

The United States also leads in the introduction of open architecture
controls which provide users with a wider choice of communication
interfaces and the ability to develop their own proprietary
applications.

These trends will be seen at the next International Manufacturing
Technology Show (IMTS), September 6-13, 2006, at Chicago’s McCormick
Place. The newest manufacturing technology equipment from around the
world will be seen by close to 100,000 visitors.

The U.S. industry’s trade group is AMT-The Association For
Manufacturing Technology (founded in 1902 as the National Machine Tool
Builders' Association). The association supports and promotes the U.S.
manufacturing technology industry and provides U.S. builders of
manufacturing systems with the latest information on technical
developments, training methods, trade and marketing opportunities, and
economic issues. It also gathers and disseminates information about
world markets, promotes its members' products in those markets, and
acts as a representative on manufacturing technology matters to
governments and trade organizations throughout the world.

In 1993, AMT opened an office in Beijing — the first trade association
to establish a presence in the vast China market. The association also
has offices in Shanghai and Guangzhou, and last year opened a
USA/Technology and Service Center in Shanghai. It also has an office
and Technical Center in Monterrey, Mexico. Visit www.AMTonline.org for
updated information


Regards
Daveb

Its all Bush's Fault!!

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,