Hey.

There are graphic languages for welding, showing anotations on
blueprints, and languages for schematics of piping and ladder diagrams
for hydraulic, computer, pneumatic, and other fluidic logic.

Is there a graphic language for machine tools?

Two approaches, two things to express:

1) Configuration: "Set up the rotary table in the center of the mill
bed and index five slots radially."

2) Work flow: "Rough the spindle on the lathe, grind to fit the
bearing, and slot the key on the shaper."

Recent reading in KSRM (Kinetic Self-Replicating Machines) convinces me
that while it is well accepted that a serial, compact notation for
machine tool configuration and work flow would faciliate
self-replication (my specialty), I have found no such graphic language
or compact notation. We are bogged down in blueprints with unnecessary
detail distracting from the view needed for replication.

Degrees of freedom can be described readily with graphics. There's no
need to draw a blueprint of the whole machine; a lathe is "merely" a
constrained headstock with a powered rotary DOF and essential no
others, while a lathe carriage or mill ways are "merely" independent,
orthogonal, linear degrees of freedom. Graphic communication of the
existence of a stop or index in a DOF might be an arrow to a cross line
for a stop, or an arrow to a point for an index. Things like that. A
lot like the GDT symbols, but not applied to blueprints, merely
standing alone. An alchemy of machine tool potential and operation.

Things like stiffness, mass, and feed or power input might be shown in
a little matrix of low-precision numbers in suitable units.

Some combinatorics are in order, and relevant:

0 DOF: The relationship is rigid. Work in vise.

1 DOF: Must be either but not both of one rotary or one axial DOF. Ram
motion, rotary table, spindle, punch.

2 DOF: Can be either two linear, two rotary, or one linear / one
rotary. Powered spindle stroke on mill or DP, end mill flute grinder
setup, lathe carriage and cross feed, mill table, drill press cross
vise, rotary table on fourth axis tilt fixture used for machining
turbine blades.

3 DOF: Combinatorically, this can all be set down. The full potential
of all 11 coordinate systems appears here, but we'd usually think of
cylindrical, spherical, and Cartesian.

6 DOF: Item is free and unconstrained. Work in transit, and work to
which equipment or jig is fastened to guide other work, perhaps.

Maybe a little XYZ system for linear contraints, and a little cube with
circles on it for rotary contraints, or something like that. Just a
sketch language for hashing out how things are fixed and free, and how
they are powered, fed with screws or rams or a handle, and what cuts,
and what holds or guides the work. Should be applicable to everything
from molding ash quarter round on a table saw or filing the end of a
cut rod square by hand without a vise, to turbine blades and profiles
of titanium hip implants.

Doug Goncz
Replikon Research
Falls Church, VA 22044-0394

My language can get pretty graphic when setting up machine tools ... oh,
wait, that's not what you're talking about!



wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey.

There are graphic languages for welding, showing anotations on
blueprints, and languages for schematics of piping and ladder diagrams
for hydraulic, computer, pneumatic, and other fluidic logic.

Is there a graphic language for machine tools?

Two approaches, two things to express:

1) Configuration: "Set up the rotary table in the center of the mill
bed and index five slots radially."

2) Work flow: "Rough the spindle on the lathe, grind to fit the
bearing, and slot the key on the shaper."

Recent reading in KSRM (Kinetic Self-Replicating Machines) convinces me
that while it is well accepted that a serial, compact notation for
machine tool configuration and work flow would faciliate
self-replication (my specialty), I have found no such graphic language
or compact notation. We are bogged down in blueprints with unnecessary
detail distracting from the view needed for replication.

Degrees of freedom can be described readily with graphics. There's no
need to draw a blueprint of the whole machine; a lathe is "merely" a
constrained headstock with a powered rotary DOF and essential no
others, while a lathe carriage or mill ways are "merely" independent,
orthogonal, linear degrees of freedom. Graphic communication of the
existence of a stop or index in a DOF might be an arrow to a cross line
for a stop, or an arrow to a point for an index. Things like that. A
lot like the GDT symbols, but not applied to blueprints, merely
standing alone. An alchemy of machine tool potential and operation.

Things like stiffness, mass, and feed or power input might be shown in
a little matrix of low-precision numbers in suitable units.

Some combinatorics are in order, and relevant:

0 DOF: The relationship is rigid. Work in vise.

1 DOF: Must be either but not both of one rotary or one axial DOF. Ram
motion, rotary table, spindle, punch.

2 DOF: Can be either two linear, two rotary, or one linear / one
rotary. Powered spindle stroke on mill or DP, end mill flute grinder
setup, lathe carriage and cross feed, mill table, drill press cross
vise, rotary table on fourth axis tilt fixture used for machining
turbine blades.

3 DOF: Combinatorically, this can all be set down. The full potential
of all 11 coordinate systems appears here, but we'd usually think of
cylindrical, spherical, and Cartesian.

6 DOF: Item is free and unconstrained. Work in transit, and work to
which equipment or jig is fastened to guide other work, perhaps.

Maybe a little XYZ system for linear contraints, and a little cube with
circles on it for rotary contraints, or something like that. Just a
sketch language for hashing out how things are fixed and free, and how
they are powered, fed with screws or rams or a handle, and what cuts,
and what holds or guides the work. Should be applicable to everything
from molding ash quarter round on a table saw or filing the end of a
cut rod square by hand without a vise, to turbine blades and profiles
of titanium hip implants.

Doug Goncz
Replikon Research
Falls Church, VA 22044-0394

Heehee. (giggles) So can mine!

I'm talking about drawing what the machine does, not what it is, I
think. Focussing on the verb, the action, the motion, and the process,
rather than the casting, the bearings, the feedscrews, and the handles,
in schematic rather than realistic form.

Doug

Andrew H. Wakefield wrote:
My language can get pretty graphic when setting up machine tools ... oh,
wait, that's not what you're talking about!

In article , Andrew H. Wakefield
says...

My language can get pretty graphic when setting up machine tools ... oh,
wait, that's not what you're talking about!



"Keep all animals and small children away from the machinst while
he is at work." Or at least stopper their ears when nearby....

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 7 Jan 2006 04:39:09 -0800, wrote:

Hey.

There are graphic languages for welding, showing anotations on
blueprints, and languages for schematics of piping and ladder diagrams
for hydraulic, computer, pneumatic, and other fluidic logic.

Is there a graphic language for machine tools?

Two approaches, two things to express:

1) Configuration: "Set up the rotary table in the center of the mill
bed and index five slots radially."

2) Work flow: "Rough the spindle on the lathe, grind to fit the
bearing, and slot the key on the shaper."

Recent reading in KSRM (Kinetic Self-Replicating Machines) convinces me
that while it is well accepted that a serial, compact notation for
machine tool configuration and work flow would faciliate
self-replication (my specialty), I have found no such graphic language
or compact notation. We are bogged down in blueprints with unnecessary
detail distracting from the view needed for replication.

Degrees of freedom can be described readily with graphics. There's no
need to draw a blueprint of the whole machine; a lathe is "merely" a
constrained headstock with a powered rotary DOF and essential no
others, while a lathe carriage or mill ways are "merely" independent,
orthogonal, linear degrees of freedom. Graphic communication of the
existence of a stop or index in a DOF might be an arrow to a cross line
for a stop, or an arrow to a point for an index. Things like that. A
lot like the GDT symbols, but not applied to blueprints, merely
standing alone. An alchemy of machine tool potential and operation.

Things like stiffness, mass, and feed or power input might be shown in
a little matrix of low-precision numbers in suitable units.

Some combinatorics are in order, and relevant:

0 DOF: The relationship is rigid. Work in vise.

1 DOF: Must be either but not both of one rotary or one axial DOF. Ram
motion, rotary table, spindle, punch.

2 DOF: Can be either two linear, two rotary, or one linear / one
rotary. Powered spindle stroke on mill or DP, end mill flute grinder
setup, lathe carriage and cross feed, mill table, drill press cross
vise, rotary table on fourth axis tilt fixture used for machining
turbine blades.

3 DOF: Combinatorically, this can all be set down. The full potential
of all 11 coordinate systems appears here, but we'd usually think of
cylindrical, spherical, and Cartesian.

6 DOF: Item is free and unconstrained. Work in transit, and work to
which equipment or jig is fastened to guide other work, perhaps.

Maybe a little XYZ system for linear contraints, and a little cube with
circles on it for rotary contraints, or something like that. Just a
sketch language for hashing out how things are fixed and free, and how
they are powered, fed with screws or rams or a handle, and what cuts,
and what holds or guides the work. Should be applicable to everything
from molding ash quarter round on a table saw or filing the end of a
cut rod square by hand without a vise, to turbine blades and profiles
of titanium hip implants.

Doug Goncz
Replikon Research
Falls Church, VA 22044-0394
=======================
While things may have changes [and most likely have] I was always
taught that only product specific items belonged on the part
drawing. E.g. "1/4X20 2A thru" not drill w/ #7 drill and tap
with 1/4X20 2A.

It was up to the shop as to how the 1/4X20 2A was obtained.
Processing information belonged on the operation/routing sheets,
which described the order in which the operations are to be done,
special handling, the machines to be used, feeds, speeds,
fixtures, settings, special tool numbers, etc. Where a specific
type/grade of off the shelf tooling was required it should have a
tool number specified on the op sheet rather than a specific
brand name.

Stability of your product will depend greatly on the stability of
the processes, which in turn rests on the detail [and
enforcement] of the routing/op sheets. While this can be a major
PITA, it is less of a PITA than trying to track down why you can
no longer manufacture a product to spec. when you have late
orders for the same.

Complete product specifications including op sheets and routers
are required for ISO9000 and any of the major manufacturers own
quality programs such as Q1 or SPEAR.

If you can't remember what you did, it is tough to improve, or
even duplicate it.

How big is your shop [number of employees?] One indication of a
potential problem is if you depend on "Karl." A "Karl" is the
employee with a good [or lucky] memory that knows which machines
running which tools at which feeds/speeds to use for any given
job. The problem is what do you do when "Karl" is run over by a
streetcar?

Contact me off list if you would like to discuss this further.

Uncle George

On 8 Jan 2006 07:54:10 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Andrew H. Wakefield
says...

My language can get pretty graphic when setting up machine tools ... oh,
wait, that's not what you're talking about!



"Keep all animals and small children away from the machinst while
he is at work." Or at least stopper their ears when nearby....

Jim

Which is sometimes harder than it might appear. While my granddaugher
is only 2...she is not much of an issue yet..I have cats who love
hanging around while Im working..and I have one that insists on
sitting on the lathe watching the chips coming off. So whenever Im
doing stainless..I put him in the house. I had this absolutly
horrifying mental picture of him reaching for a stringer coming off
the work..and getting hung..and spun at 1000 rpm wrapped in razor
sharp stainless steel ribbons....

cringe.......

So I put him in the house. Then he sits in the window above me and
watchs. But at least he is safe.

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

In article , Gunner says...

Which is sometimes harder than it might appear. While my granddaugher
is only 2...she is not much of an issue yet..

You might be surpised. My daughter was about that age in day care
while ms mulligan was still practicing. Apparently something untoward
came out of her mouth at one time (apparently she thought the phrase
meant "THANK you...") but it was an eye opener because we both knew
she had not heard it at home - we were actually quite careful about
language when she was at a tender young age, so there really was only
one place for her to have picked it up.

Kids listen *all* the time. They watch even more than they listen, too.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 8 Jan 2006 13:26:09 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Which is sometimes harder than it might appear. While my granddaugher
is only 2...she is not much of an issue yet..

You might be surpised. My daughter was about that age in day care
while ms mulligan was still practicing. Apparently something untoward
came out of her mouth at one time (apparently she thought the phrase
meant "THANK you...") but it was an eye opener because we both knew
she had not heard it at home - we were actually quite careful about
language when she was at a tender young age, so there really was only
one place for her to have picked it up.

Kids listen *all* the time. They watch even more than they listen, too.

Jim

On that..I agree. I believe Cheyanne's first word was " ****". Clear
as a bell. Sorta set everybody in the room back a step..

She likes to watch Poppy (me) doing Stuff. She was a bit put off at
first by the noise of the machines at first..but now when she hears
em..even from inside the house..she runs to her mom or my wife and
wants to come outside and watch.

Ill have her welding, turning, milling and whatnot by the time she is
10. While the rest of the family got her girls toys..I bought her one
of those Fisher Price workbench thingies with the plastic bolts you
screw in and whatnot. She now puts in the bolts the right direction
every time, even with real one. Damned shame her dad never could
remember "righty tighty...lefty loosie"

Ill wait another year or so before disellusioning her by handing her a
left handed bolt and nut..... G

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

In article , Gunner says...

Ill have her welding, turning, milling and whatnot by the time she is
10. While the rest of the family got her girls toys..I bought her one
of those Fisher Price workbench thingies with the plastic bolts you
screw in and whatnot. She now puts in the bolts the right direction
every time, even with real one. Damned shame her dad never could
remember "righty tighty...lefty loosie"

LOL. I have that cartoon on my door here at work, the two guys in
the dungeon with the prisoner on the rack. The one standing off to
the side is telling the guy running the capstan on the rack "righty
tighty...."

Give her her own safety glasses and a toolbox to keep her tools in.

Eventually she will realize that your tools are her tools - as long
as she puts them back each time.

Margaret is not running machinery at this point - but she did teach
her science class to solder and the all made LED flashlights as a
project....

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

You take one lousy week off to join Thorax at the Elvis concert, and this
is what happens: Gunner writes on Sun, 08 Jan 2006
22:36:54 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

Kids listen *all* the time. They watch even more than they listen, too.

Jim

On that..I agree. I believe Cheyanne's first word was " ****". Clear
as a bell. Sorta set everybody in the room back a step..

I punched a hole in the freezer, and let out the coolant. Oh frap.
All present gather round, and stare at the refrigerator. And from about
waist high I hear a "Well, ****!" from the god-daughter, age three. I
didn't mention it then, but later I did admonish her parents about language
use ...


tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 06:00:43 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

You take one lousy week off to join Thorax at the Elvis concert, and this
is what happens: Gunner writes on Sun, 08 Jan 2006
22:36:54 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

Kids listen *all* the time. They watch even more than they listen, too.

Jim

On that..I agree. I believe Cheyanne's first word was " ****". Clear
as a bell. Sorta set everybody in the room back a step..

I punched a hole in the freezer, and let out the coolant. Oh frap.
All present gather round, and stare at the refrigerator. And from about
waist high I hear a "Well, ****!" from the god-daughter, age three. I
didn't mention it then, but later I did admonish her parents about language
use ...


tschus
pyotr

Or sometimes, 3-yr old's pronunciation can cause an issue. Once on
I-10 near Seguin we were getting passed by a large motorcycle club,
outlaw style. Our middle son in the back seat pointed at them and
hollered over and over what sounded like "mother****er!", meaning
motorcycle. Thank goodness the windows were rolled up.

Pete Keillor

According to Pete Keillor :
On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 06:00:43 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

You take one lousy week off to join Thorax at the Elvis concert, and this
is what happens: Gunner writes on Sun, 08 Jan 2006
22:36:54 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

Kids listen *all* the time. They watch even more than they listen, too.

[ ... ]

On that..I agree. I believe Cheyanne's first word was " ****". Clear
as a bell. Sorta set everybody in the room back a step..

[ ... ]

And from about
waist high I hear a "Well, ****!" from the god-daughter, age three.

[ ... ]

Or sometimes, 3-yr old's pronunciation can cause an issue. Once on
I-10 near Seguin we were getting passed by a large motorcycle club,
outlaw style. Our middle son in the back seat pointed at them and
hollered over and over what sounded like "mother****er!", meaning
motorcycle. Thank goodness the windows were rolled up.

Wife and I were at a Chinese restaurant yesterday evening with a
friend.

A couple with a small kid came in, ordered and were served.

Kid was trying to complain about the hot peppers in the meal
which he was trying -- but he kept pronouncing it "hot peckers". :-)

Enjoy
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

My son is ummm 31 this year - anyway - when he was a tiny one - He had the T. Twos
when he was three - and his fist was hard!

Anyway - His T was an F - so playing with Trucks and there goes a Truck mommy ...
We were glad when he learned just a little more. I think it is a a mouth and teeth
shaping growing - and learning issue. Sometimes fun - sometimes not.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to Pete Keillor :

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 06:00:43 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:


You take one lousy week off to join Thorax at the Elvis concert, and this
is what happens: Gunner writes on Sun, 08 Jan 2006
22:36:54 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

Kids listen *all* the time. They watch even more than they listen, too.


[ ... ]


On that..I agree. I believe Cheyanne's first word was " ****". Clear
as a bell. Sorta set everybody in the room back a step..


[ ... ]


And from about
waist high I hear a "Well, ****!" from the god-daughter, age three.


[ ... ]


Or sometimes, 3-yr old's pronunciation can cause an issue. Once on
I-10 near Seguin we were getting passed by a large motorcycle club,
outlaw style. Our middle son in the back seat pointed at them and
hollered over and over what sounded like "mother****er!", meaning
motorcycle. Thank goodness the windows were rolled up.


Wife and I were at a Chinese restaurant yesterday evening with a
friend.

A couple with a small kid came in, ordered and were served.

Kid was trying to complain about the hot peppers in the meal
which he was trying -- but he kept pronouncing it "hot peckers". :-)

Enjoy
DoN.


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Thanks, but really I just want Karl's phone number.

F. George McDuffee wrote:

How big is your shop [number of employees?] One indication of a
potential problem is if you depend on "Karl." A "Karl" is the
employee with a good [or lucky] memory that knows which machines
running which tools at which feeds/speeds to use for any given
job. The problem is what do you do when "Karl" is run over by a
streetcar?

Contact me off list if you would like to discuss this further.

Uncle George

There is some work well underway on a Graphic Language for
manufacturing. See http://www.stepnc.com . Although their stuff is
really wordy, it boils down to the machining data will be included in
the design CAD file. It will take a special machine control to accept
the Cad file, and the operator/setup guy will be able to adjust for
operating conditions (like APT)

JohnB



On 7 Jan 2006 04:39:09 -0800, wrote:

Hey.

There are graphic languages for welding, showing anotations on
blueprints, and languages for schematics of piping and ladder diagrams
for hydraulic, computer, pneumatic, and other fluidic logic.

Is there a graphic language for machine tools?

Two approaches, two things to express:

1) Configuration: "Set up the rotary table in the center of the mill
bed and index five slots radially."

2) Work flow: "Rough the spindle on the lathe, grind to fit the
bearing, and slot the key on the shaper."

Recent reading in KSRM (Kinetic Self-Replicating Machines) convinces me
that while it is well accepted that a serial, compact notation for
machine tool configuration and work flow would faciliate
self-replication (my specialty), I have found no such graphic language
or compact notation. We are bogged down in blueprints with unnecessary
detail distracting from the view needed for replication.

Degrees of freedom can be described readily with graphics. There's no
need to draw a blueprint of the whole machine; a lathe is "merely" a
constrained headstock with a powered rotary DOF and essential no
others, while a lathe carriage or mill ways are "merely" independent,
orthogonal, linear degrees of freedom. Graphic communication of the
existence of a stop or index in a DOF might be an arrow to a cross line
for a stop, or an arrow to a point for an index. Things like that. A
lot like the GDT symbols, but not applied to blueprints, merely
standing alone. An alchemy of machine tool potential and operation.

Things like stiffness, mass, and feed or power input might be shown in
a little matrix of low-precision numbers in suitable units.

Some combinatorics are in order, and relevant:

0 DOF: The relationship is rigid. Work in vise.

1 DOF: Must be either but not both of one rotary or one axial DOF. Ram
motion, rotary table, spindle, punch.

2 DOF: Can be either two linear, two rotary, or one linear / one
rotary. Powered spindle stroke on mill or DP, end mill flute grinder
setup, lathe carriage and cross feed, mill table, drill press cross
vise, rotary table on fourth axis tilt fixture used for machining
turbine blades.

3 DOF: Combinatorically, this can all be set down. The full potential
of all 11 coordinate systems appears here, but we'd usually think of
cylindrical, spherical, and Cartesian.

6 DOF: Item is free and unconstrained. Work in transit, and work to
which equipment or jig is fastened to guide other work, perhaps.

Maybe a little XYZ system for linear contraints, and a little cube with
circles on it for rotary contraints, or something like that. Just a
sketch language for hashing out how things are fixed and free, and how
they are powered, fed with screws or rams or a handle, and what cuts,
and what holds or guides the work. Should be applicable to everything
from molding ash quarter round on a table saw or filing the end of a
cut rod square by hand without a vise, to turbine blades and profiles
of titanium hip implants.

Doug Goncz
Replikon Research
Falls Church, VA 22044-0394

Thanks, JohnB, for stepnc.com. It may just be what I am looking for,
saving a lot of effort.

Never, never, reinvent the wheel!

Doug