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it's the little things which can kill you.
Greetings and Salutations
I doubt this will be a problem encountered by most of those who post here, but still, a word to the wise is sufficient. Tuesday night the 16th we had a man killed when, the machine he's been working at for several months caught him and wrapped him round the shaft. Not a big shaft, mind you but it is part of a big ass Cincinnati vertical boring type machine, and it made him fit in the eight inch clearance. (This wasn't the main table, where the workpiece was, this was off to the side. I've never worked on one of these, so I don't know what things are called.) originally I understood it to have been a case of slipping on an oily spot on the floor, but apparently, what happened was he was cleaning up, and at the base of the shaft (a bit over an inch in diameter), there's a ring, and a locking pin which protrudes from that ring. Not much, calling it a half inch would be over doing it, and out about a quarter inch in diameter. Been these since Hector was a pup. But it apparently caught the rag and pulled him into the shaft. Which wrapped him around, like I said, and generally broke parts of him which didn't help. One of the other workers was passing by when it happened, but by the time he could hit the emergency off and get the machine stopped, it was all over but the screaming. You probably have a greater risk of death or maiming on the freeway to work, than at work, but ... you can get away with risky behaviors (on the freeway or off) until the last time, and then is when you say "That was dumb." Like I said - its the little things, the things you see everyday, the things which haven't been a problem before, the things you know what you are doing when around them, and not the great big honking dangerous parts, which can kill you. Clean it up, put it away, file the extra bit off the shaft retaining ring lock pin ... do something now, don't wait till someone else is having to get you out of the machine to "fix" the problem. It had been fifteen years since the last fatality, but not since the last injury. You can't be fearful, but OTOH, lets keep four fingers and a thumb. tschus pyotr -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone." |
it's the little things which can kill you.
In article , pyotr filipivich
says... ... But it apparently caught the rag and pulled him into the shaft. Teenut's insistence on 'no gloves, no rags around moving spindles' comes to mind. The 'glove' thread went on for months. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
it's the little things which can kill you.
pyotr filipivich wrote:
what happened was he was cleaning up, and at the base of the shaft (a bit over an inch in diameter), there's a ring, and a locking pin which protrudes from that ring. Clean it up, put it away, file the extra bit off the shaft retaining ring lock pin ... The real danger is that any rotating smooth shaft even at fairly low RPM will grab any fabric and wrap it around the shaft. A shaft with a protruding pin is actually safer as it scares the hell out of anyone to stay away from it. Exposed rotating shafts should ideally have a cover over them. Where that is not possible the smart operator rolls up his sleeves and does not wear loose garments that can be grabbed by a rotating shaft. HTH -- SATOR AREPO TENET OPERA ROTAS Have 5 nice days! John ****************************** --- ILN 000.000.001 --- |
it's the little things which can kill you.
Attitude is everything. Thursday a young fellow who is full of smarts
jumped on my forklift to ride. When I objected he told me the rulle didn't apply to him. Near the end of the day that same guy fell off the deck of a high boy trailer. He had to take Friday off and likely won't be back until next year. It only takes a second to reach over and shut the main power off, put on your faceshield or get a ladder. I was told several years ago that it costs a hundred dollars a day to put a roofer up on a roof in Florida. That is the workers compensation charges before the employer pays any other wages or benefits. Locally where I am tree fallers run around 28 dollars Canadian per day. It is cold to talk in dollars but the amounts reflect the risk and lack of safety measures. Randy "pyotr filipivich" wrote in message ... Greetings and Salutations I doubt this will be a problem encountered by most of those who post here, but still, a word to the wise is sufficient. Tuesday night the 16th we had a man killed when, the machine he's been working at for several months caught him and wrapped him round the shaft. Not a big shaft, mind you but it is part of a big ass Cincinnati vertical boring type machine, and it made him fit in the eight inch clearance. (This wasn't the main table, where the workpiece was, this was off to the side. I've never worked on one of these, so I don't know what things are called.) originally I understood it to have been a case of slipping on an oily spot on the floor, but apparently, what happened was he was cleaning up, and at the base of the shaft (a bit over an inch in diameter), there's a ring, and a locking pin which protrudes from that ring. Not much, calling it a half inch would be over doing it, and out about a quarter inch in diameter. Been these since Hector was a pup. But it apparently caught the rag and pulled him into the shaft. Which wrapped him around, like I said, and generally broke parts of him which didn't help. One of the other workers was passing by when it happened, but by the time he could hit the emergency off and get the machine stopped, it was all over but the screaming. You probably have a greater risk of death or maiming on the freeway to work, than at work, but ... you can get away with risky behaviors (on the freeway or off) until the last time, and then is when you say "That was dumb." Like I said - its the little things, the things you see everyday, the things which haven't been a problem before, the things you know what you are doing when around them, and not the great big honking dangerous parts, which can kill you. Clean it up, put it away, file the extra bit off the shaft retaining ring lock pin ... do something now, don't wait till someone else is having to get you out of the machine to "fix" the problem. It had been fifteen years since the last fatality, but not since the last injury. You can't be fearful, but OTOH, lets keep four fingers and a thumb. tschus pyotr -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone." |
it's the little things which can kill you.
pyotr filipivich wrote: Greetings and Salutations snipped You can't be fearful, but OTOH, lets keep four fingers and a thumb. I'll never forget the time about forty years aga when a safety guy from our worker's compensation insurer visited our shop. He had a pack of hot dogs with him and started sticking them in moving machinery where fingers shouldn't go. After he mashed most of them in punch press dies and splattered a few of us with the hot dog juice which squirted, most of us had our hands behinds our backs balled up into fists. I've tried to keep my wits about me ever since, and still have all my digits. Which reminds me of the particularly insensitive shop monkey who came to work drunk and chopped off his middle finfer in a press brake. He was so far gone didn't notice it until quitting time when he reied to say goodbye to the boss. Happy Holidays, Jeff (Who survived having the sleeve of his shop coat ripped off by a lathe dog in Jr. High School metalworking shop, while filing something spinning in a lathe.) Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) "If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone to blame it on." |
it's the little things which can kill you.
I thought I was paranoid about any machines other than a manual pencil
sharpener till I saw someone lay a finger open on one of those. I've had enough close calls and minor bleeds to still make the little hairs stand up on my neck every time I hit a power button. My favorite is opening the quick-change tool holder on the lathe and the handle swung into the moving chuck...sounded like a gun-shot and I found the big part of the handle 6 months later 50 feet away. Could just as easily holed my melon. "pyotr filipivich" wrote in message ... Greetings and Salutations I doubt this will be a problem encountered by most of those who post here, but still, a word to the wise is sufficient. Tuesday night the 16th we had a man killed when, the machine he's been working at for several months caught him and wrapped him round the shaft. Not a big shaft, mind you but it is part of a big ass Cincinnati vertical boring type machine, and it made him fit in the eight inch clearance. (This wasn't the main table, where the workpiece was, this was off to the side. I've never worked on one of these, so I don't know what things are called.) originally I understood it to have been a case of slipping on an oily spot on the floor, but apparently, what happened was he was cleaning up, and at the base of the shaft (a bit over an inch in diameter), there's a ring, and a locking pin which protrudes from that ring. Not much, calling it a half inch would be over doing it, and out about a quarter inch in diameter. Been these since Hector was a pup. But it apparently caught the rag and pulled him into the shaft. Which wrapped him around, like I said, and generally broke parts of him which didn't help. One of the other workers was passing by when it happened, but by the time he could hit the emergency off and get the machine stopped, it was all over but the screaming. You probably have a greater risk of death or maiming on the freeway to work, than at work, but ... you can get away with risky behaviors (on the freeway or off) until the last time, and then is when you say "That was dumb." Like I said - its the little things, the things you see everyday, the things which haven't been a problem before, the things you know what you are doing when around them, and not the great big honking dangerous parts, which can kill you. Clean it up, put it away, file the extra bit off the shaft retaining ring lock pin ... do something now, don't wait till someone else is having to get you out of the machine to "fix" the problem. It had been fifteen years since the last fatality, but not since the last injury. You can't be fearful, but OTOH, lets keep four fingers and a thumb. tschus pyotr -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone." |
it's the little things which can kill you.
A city wide blackout at Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:20:30 GMT did not prevent John
from posting to rec.crafts.metalworking the following: pyotr filipivich wrote: what happened was he was cleaning up, and at the base of the shaft (a bit over an inch in diameter), there's a ring, and a locking pin which protrudes from that ring. Clean it up, put it away, file the extra bit off the shaft retaining ring lock pin ... The real danger is that any rotating smooth shaft even at fairly low RPM will grab any fabric and wrap it around the shaft. A shaft with a protruding pin is actually safer as it scares the hell out of anyone to stay away from it. Exposed rotating shafts should ideally have a cover over them. Where that is not possible the smart operator rolls up his sleeves and does not wear loose garments that can be grabbed by a rotating shaft. HTH Yep. Of course, as a friend used to say "Coordination kills." People think they can do stuff, and they can, and then they try to do something which they only think they should be able to do. As for rolling up sleeves - this is a factory built before the war (which war, I'm not sure). I'm told the heat works wonderfully from July to late September, and the A/C from late September to about mid June. (At least I'm not in the melt and forge shops :-) ) So, it gets cold. "See your breath" and "drink lots of coffee" kind of cold. But I take your point: there's a lot of "safety precautions" one needs to take around machines. And it is the little things, rather than the big honking dangerous looking parts, which will kill you. Or hurt you badly. How many times have we heard experienced people say "I didn't think that was going to work" after they tried something which "backfired." (I remember an electrician knocking himself on his butt while wiring a stepdown transformer from 220 to 110v, and saying that very thing.) Sometimes, it doesn't knock you on your ass, it kills your ass. Mechanically and without emotion. -- pyotr filipivich "We don't support "guns" ... the term "gun" gets in the way of what is really being talked about here - we want choice in personal security devices." Ann Coulter |
it's the little things which can kill you.
A city wide blackout at Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:22:08 -0500 did not prevent Jeff
Wisnia from posting to rec.crafts.metalworking the following: You can't be fearful, but OTOH, lets keep four fingers and a thumb. I'll never forget the time about forty years aga when a safety guy from our worker's compensation insurer visited our shop. He had a pack of hot dogs with him and started sticking them in moving machinery where fingers shouldn't go. After he mashed most of them in punch press dies and splattered a few of us with the hot dog juice which squirted, most of us had our hands behinds our backs balled up into fists. LOL. I've said for years, if you see three or four guys, and one is gesturing and the rest have their hands in their armpits, you can bet that the conversation is going to include "and took it off slicker than snot.." or "mashed that sucker flat" or other expressions maiming. Lets be safe out there. peter -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone." |
it's the little things which can kill you.
A city wide blackout at Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:24:46 GMT did not prevent "Tom
Gardner" from posting to rec.crafts.metalworking the following: I thought I was paranoid about any machines other than a manual pencil sharpener till I saw someone lay a finger open on one of those. I've had enough close calls and minor bleeds to still make the little hairs stand up on my neck every time I hit a power button. My favorite is opening the quick-change tool holder on the lathe and the handle swung into the moving chuck...sounded like a gun-shot and I found the big part of the handle 6 months later 50 feet away. Could just as easily holed my melon. At the school I'm attending, in the grinding "alcove" there is a dent in the wall about five, six feet up. Came from a handle left on a Bridgeport vertical mill on the other side of the shop, some fifty yards away. Some one "forgot" it was up their when they applied power. revolve, revolve, zip - "clang"! "Teacher, can I be excuse to change my shorts?" peter -- pyotr filipivich. as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with." |
it's the little things which can kill you.
A city wide blackout at 21 Dec 2003 06:47:58 -0800 did not prevent jim rozen
from posting to rec.crafts.metalworking the following: In article , pyotr filipivich says... ... But it apparently caught the rag and pulled him into the shaft. Teenut's insistence on 'no gloves, no rags around moving spindles' comes to mind. The 'glove' thread went on for months. Not a bad idea. I wear gloves for setup do handle cold chains, hooks, wrenches and the like. But for "fussy" or around the rollers, the gloves come off. Jim ================================================= = please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================= = -- pyotr filipivich. as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with." |
it's the little things which can kill you.
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:22:08 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote: I'll never forget the time about forty years aga when a safety guy from our worker's compensation insurer visited our shop. He had a pack of hot dogs with him and started sticking them in moving machinery where fingers shouldn't go. A friend and I do a fair bit of plasma cutting. Curious as to what the one-day inevitable accident will look like, we stuck some spare barbecue sausages into an old welding glove and went at it with the plasma. An interesting experiment ! (We think it's going to hurt, but not do lasting damage unless you leave your hand underneath the nozzle) -- Klein bottle for rent. Apply within. |
it's the little things which can kill you.
Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:22:08 -0500, Jeff Wisnia wrote: I'll never forget the time about forty years aga when a safety guy from our worker's compensation insurer visited our shop. He had a pack of hot dogs with him and started sticking them in moving machinery where fingers shouldn't go. A friend and I do a fair bit of plasma cutting. Curious as to what the one-day inevitable accident will look like, we stuck some spare barbecue sausages into an old welding glove and went at it with the plasma. An interesting experiment ! (We think it's going to hurt, but not do lasting damage unless you leave your hand underneath the nozzle) -- Klein bottle for rent. Apply within. about 6 months ago there was a show on tv that showed a new circular saw that was being sold that the operator held a hot dog by the blade.. when the blade hit the hot dog it quit and the electric brake went on and the hot dog just had a little nick in it... unlike a finger that might have been cut off with an older saw(one without this new brake)..... i never did see them hit the market.. like the $35 plastic circular saws of now would have to cost about $140 or more... $35 for the saw and $110 for the new brake?????? |
it's the little things which can kill you.
I got a cotton mill glove caught on the shank of a spade drill my second
year in our shop. G&L 5"horizontal boring mill. Chips leaving the hole snagged the glove. Glove followed the slowly rotating shank. Eventually, the glove broke, but by that time, part of the spindle snagged the side of my uniform shirt. The shirt wrapped me like a tourniquet. Fortunately, the only other co-worker in the plant at the time came to my rescue. 3 broken ribs and a month off work. I was VERY lucky. It could just have well been lost fingers or a lost arm. Greetings and Salutations I doubt this will be a problem encountered by most of those who post here, but still, a word to the wise is sufficient. Tuesday night the 16th we had a man killed when, the machine he's been working at for several months caught him and wrapped him round the shaft. snip |
it's the little things which can kill you.
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:10:13 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote: At the school I'm attending, in the grinding "alcove" there is a dent in the wall about five, six feet up. Came from a handle left on a Bridgeport vertical mill on the other side of the shop, some fifty yards away. Some one "forgot" it was up their when they applied power. revolve, revolve, zip - "clang"! "Teacher, can I be excuse to change my shorts?" That's better than "revolve, revolve, zip, thunk" chem -- - I am not a machinist, just a student in a pre-apprentice machining course. Any advice, opinions, etc, are taken from my very limited knowledge base and should be treated accordingly. - www.xanga.com/chemgurl - take out the trash to reply by email - Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ |
it's the little things which can kill you.
Greetings and Salutations.
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:13:08 GMT, jim wrote: Andy Dingley wrote: *snip* about 6 months ago there was a show on tv that showed a new circular saw that was being sold that the operator held a hot dog by the blade.. when the blade hit the hot dog it quit and the electric brake went on and the hot dog just had a little nick in it... unlike a finger that might have been cut off with an older saw(one without this new brake)..... i never did see them hit the market.. like the $35 plastic circular saws of now would have to cost about $140 or more... $35 for the saw and $110 for the new brake?????? Yea, that system, called "the Saw Stop", has been quite a point of discussion over on the woodworking newsgroup. Seems that the manufacturer/inventor did all these demos (about a year or so ago, actually), and tried to sell it to the manufacturers as a safety device. However, they could not sell it, because of several problems - including the fact that it would have added $200 or so to the cost of the saw. It also has a fairly expensive ($50 or so) cartridge that needs replacing when the thing triggers. Finally (at least in my mind) there was the question of long-term reliability. After all, if one of these things fails and a consumer's body gets chewed up, the liability lawyers would have a field day. Alternatively, if age causes it to misfire at random moments, it will be an expensive add-on for the consumer - not to mention the annoyance of being half-way through a project on a Saturday night, and NOT being able to get the saw back up and running. Another problem is that this is not an "add-on". It has to be engineered into the saw itself, so is a major re-design. Well, a few months ago, the creator of the system, in the spirit of the automobile insurance industry and a number of other annoying scams, tried to make an end-run around the lack of consumer support by getting a bill through Congress that would have mandated the system on all table saws sold in the USA. I believe that, after a great outcry, the bill was quietly dropped. However, it was pretty danged annoying as it was such a blatant attempt to force money out of our pockets for a bit of technology that was problematical at best. Oh yea...the lack of consumer appeal was proved by the fact that although they DO "offer" the saws on their website (www.sawstop.com), there is no evidence that any of these saws exist or have been sold, in spite of being "available" for a year or more. Regards Dave Mundt |
it's the little things which can kill you.
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:13:08 GMT, jim wrote:
about 6 months ago there was a show on tv that showed a new circular saw that was being sold that the operator held a hot dog by the blade.. when the blade hit the hot dog it quit and the electric brake went on and the hot dog just had a little nick in it... SawStop - read rec.woodworking for more discussion of it. Dreadful company. They're trying to play the liability card and hoping for government intervention to make their frippery gadget mandatory on all new saws. However as any woodworker can tell you, blade+finger accidents are rare. In Europe they're almost unheard of, because we use much better guarding than is usual in the USA (as in we use any guards - the USA generally doesn't). What gets woodworkers is a "kickback" accident, where the blade picks up the piece of timber and throws it at you. The SawStop does nothing to avoid such accidents and it encourages a feeling of false security. There's a simple no-moving-parts device called a "riving knife" that's again usual practice in Europe and avoids most kickback accidents - however they're not widely used in the USA. -- Klein bottle for rent. Apply within. |
it's the little things which can kill you.
The guy with the hot dogs probably saved his company millions of
dollars every year, just by putting a little scare into guys who had gotten too complacent. I've had a couple of close calls in the shop, like getting a fingernail broken or an "acid brush" wrapped around an end mill and then thrown across the room. I now use old toothbrushes for chip clearing and applying cutting lube. They behave a LOT better than those metal-handle acid brushes. But, the worst injuries I've had were with unpowered tools. I dropped a 30 Lb scraping straightedge on my big toe, and limped around for months. And, I wrenched my back working a 24 x 36" surface plate out of the back of my car. That one may never heal, and every time I overload the bad disc, it flares up again. Damn! Jon |
it's the little things which can kill you.
jim wrote in :
Andy Dingley wrote: On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:22:08 -0500, Jeff Wisnia wrote: I'll never forget the time about forty years aga when a safety guy from our worker's compensation insurer visited our shop. He had a pack of hot dogs with him and started sticking them in moving machinery where fingers shouldn't go. A friend and I do a fair bit of plasma cutting. Curious as to what the one-day inevitable accident will look like, we stuck some spare barbecue sausages into an old welding glove and went at it with the plasma. An interesting experiment ! (We think it's going to hurt, but not do lasting damage unless you leave your hand underneath the nozzle) -- Klein bottle for rent. Apply within. about 6 months ago there was a show on tv that showed a new circular saw that was being sold that the operator held a hot dog by the blade.. when the blade hit the hot dog it quit and the electric brake went on and the hot dog just had a little nick in it... unlike a finger that might have been cut off with an older saw(one without this new brake)..... i never did see them hit the market.. like the $35 plastic circular saws of now would have to cost about $140 or more... $35 for the saw and $110 for the new brake?????? http://www.sawstop.com/video.htm -- Dave W a.a.#1967 |
it's the little things which can kill you.
Jon Elson wrote:
But, the worst injuries I've had were with unpowered tools. I dropped a 30 Lb scraping straightedge on my big toe, and limped around for months. And, I wrenched my back working a 24 x 36" surface plate out of the back of my car. That one may never heal, and every time I overload the bad disc, it flares up again. Damn! I've had to learn the hard way that endmills can cause a nasty cut even when the spindle is standing still. |
it's the little things which can kill you.
pyotr filipivich wrote:
Greetings and Salutations I doubt this will be a problem encountered by most of those who post here, but still, a word to the wise is sufficient. Tuesday night the 16th we had a man killed when, the machine he's been working at for several months caught him and wrapped him round the shaft. Not a big shaft, mind you but it is part of a big ass Cincinnati vertical boring type machine, and it made him fit in the eight inch clearance. (This wasn't the main table, where the workpiece was, this was off to the side. I've never worked on one of these, so I don't know what things are called.) originally I understood it to have been a case of slipping on an oily spot on the floor, but apparently, what happened was he was cleaning up, and at the base of the shaft (a bit over an inch in diameter), there's a ring, and a locking pin which protrudes from that ring. Not much, calling it a half inch would be over doing it, and out about a quarter inch in diameter. Been these since Hector was a pup. But it apparently caught the rag and pulled him into the shaft. Which wrapped him around, like I said, and generally broke parts of him which didn't help. One of the other workers was passing by when it happened, but by the time he could hit the emergency off and get the machine stopped, it was all over but the screaming. You probably have a greater risk of death or maiming on the freeway to work, than at work, but ... you can get away with risky behaviors (on the freeway or off) until the last time, and then is when you say "That was dumb." Like I said - its the little things, the things you see everyday, the things which haven't been a problem before, the things you know what you are doing when around them, and not the great big honking dangerous parts, which can kill you. Clean it up, put it away, file the extra bit off the shaft retaining ring lock pin ... do something now, don't wait till someone else is having to get you out of the machine to "fix" the problem. It had been fifteen years since the last fatality, but not since the last injury. You can't be fearful, but OTOH, lets keep four fingers and a thumb. tschus pyotr Something for us all to remember. I wonder if sticking a little metal plaque on every machine that has caused a serrious injury (listing what, when and maybe who) would make a difference or if that might be to morbid... Ken |
it's the little things which can kill you.
In article , Dave Mundt wrote:
Greetings and Salutations. On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:13:08 GMT, jim wrote: Andy Dingley wrote: *snip* about 6 months ago there was a show on tv that showed a new circular saw that was being sold that the operator held a hot dog by the blade.. when the blade hit the hot dog it quit and the electric brake went on and the hot dog just had a little nick in it... unlike a finger that might have .... Oh yea...the lack of consumer appeal was proved by the fact that although they DO "offer" the saws on their website (www.sawstop.com), there is no evidence that any of these saws exist or have been sold, in spite of being "available" for a year or more. Regards Dave Mundt so what _is_ the operative technology? the must be some part of it that senses moisture, right? --Loren |
it's the little things which can kill you.
When I started work with my Bridgeport about 15 years ago, I noticed dents
in the labeled plate on the front of the power switch and wondered how they got there. A couple of years later, I found out right after I forgot to remove the box end drawbar wrench from the drawbar hex before firing up. It felt like someone hit the knuckles on my left hand with a sledgehammer! No permanent damage, but I sure as hell check for that wrench now. RJ "pyotr filipivich" wrote in message ... A city wide blackout at Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:24:46 GMT did not prevent "Tom Gardner" from posting to rec.crafts.metalworking the following: I thought I was paranoid about any machines other than a manual pencil sharpener till I saw someone lay a finger open on one of those. I've had enough close calls and minor bleeds to still make the little hairs stand up on my neck every time I hit a power button. My favorite is opening the quick-change tool holder on the lathe and the handle swung into the moving chuck...sounded like a gun-shot and I found the big part of the handle 6 months later 50 feet away. Could just as easily holed my melon. At the school I'm attending, in the grinding "alcove" there is a dent in the wall about five, six feet up. Came from a handle left on a Bridgeport vertical mill on the other side of the shop, some fifty yards away. Some one "forgot" it was up their when they applied power. revolve, revolve, zip - "clang"! "Teacher, can I be excuse to change my shorts?" peter -- pyotr filipivich. as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with." |
it's the little things which can kill you.
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 23:35:13 GMT, "Jon Grimm"
brought forth from the murky depths: I got a cotton mill glove caught on the shank of a spade drill my second year in our shop. G&L 5"horizontal boring mill. Chips leaving the hole snagged the glove. Glove followed the slowly rotating shank. Eventually, the glove broke, but by that time, part of the spindle snagged the side of my uniform shirt. The shirt wrapped me like a tourniquet. Fortunately, the only other co-worker in the plant at the time came to my rescue. 3 broken ribs and a month off work. I was VERY lucky. It could just have well been lost fingers or a lost arm. One would think that people who had gone through that would start shopping at the Chippendale Store for tearaway clothing. ;) ================================================== ======== I drank WHAT? + http://www.diversify.com --Socrates + Web Application Programming |
it's the little things which can kill you.
Andy Dingley wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:13:08 GMT, jim wrote: about 6 months ago there was a show on tv that showed a new circular saw that was being sold that the operator held a hot dog by the blade.. when the blade hit the hot dog it quit and the electric brake went on and the hot dog just had a little nick in it... SawStop - read rec.woodworking for more discussion of it. Dreadful company. They're trying to play the liability card and hoping for government intervention to make their frippery gadget mandatory on all new saws. The company that invented the saw stop is trying to cram it up our ass via the regulatory route and I hope they fail. The majority of hand injuries involving the table saw are from reaching beyond the saw blade and contacting it and being pulled back in. Somehow little bits of offcut dancing on the table manage to hypnotize the operator into being stupid for just a second. The rim speed of your average tablesaw is about 180mph so kickbacks can get rather interesting as well. |
it's the little things which can kill you.
The old Monarch lathe at work is nothing but brute power. I often
thought while using it, if one was to get caught would it even slow it down or make it grunt. I know things would give, but it would not be lathe parts. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
it's the little things which can kill you.
Greetings and Salutations.
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:24:00 GMT, Loren Coe wrote: In article , Dave Mundt wrote: Greetings and Salutations. On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:13:08 GMT, jim wrote: Andy Dingley wrote: *snip* about 6 months ago there was a show on tv that showed a new circular saw that was being sold that the operator held a hot dog by the blade.. when the blade hit the hot dog it quit and the electric brake went on and the hot dog just had a little nick in it... unlike a finger that might have ... Oh yea...the lack of consumer appeal was proved by the fact that although they DO "offer" the saws on their website (www.sawstop.com), there is no evidence that any of these saws exist or have been sold, in spite of being "available" for a year or more. Regards Dave Mundt so what _is_ the operative technology? the must be some part of it that senses moisture, right? --Loren According to the website, it injects an RF frequency into the sawblade. This signal gets "damped" when skin touches the metal blade. This dampening effect is sensed by the circuitry, which then jams a rod into the blade to stop its rotate. I believe that it also drops the blade below the surface of the saw, too... It does need to be 'defeated' when cutting metal, of course. I am unclear as to how the signal is kept off the REST of the saw, so simply resting one's hand on the saw top would trigger it. Regards Dave Mundt |
it's the little things which can kill you.
Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:13:08 GMT, jim wrote: about 6 months ago there was a show on tv that showed a new circular saw that was being sold that the operator held a hot dog by the blade.. when the blade hit the hot dog it quit and the electric brake went on and the hot dog just had a little nick in it... SawStop - read rec.woodworking for more discussion of it. Dreadful company. They're trying to play the liability card and hoping for government intervention to make their frippery gadget mandatory on all new saws. However as any woodworker can tell you, blade+finger accidents are rare. In Europe they're almost unheard of, because we use much better guarding than is usual in the USA (as in we use any guards - the USA generally doesn't). What gets woodworkers is a "kickback" accident, where the blade picks up the piece of timber and throws it at you. The SawStop does nothing to avoid such accidents and it encourages a feeling of false security. There's a simple no-moving-parts device called a "riving knife" that's again usual practice in Europe and avoids most kickback accidents - however they're not widely used in the USA. I use one in my Unisaw- it's easily removable, and for most operations it's virtually unnoticed. I cringe when I see some idiot cross-cutting plywood against the fence (the same guys are too cool to use a splitter or a guard, of course) |
it's the little things which can kill you.
Ken Vale wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote: Greetings and Salutations I doubt this will be a problem encountered by most of those who post here, but still, a word to the wise is sufficient. Tuesday night the 16th we had a man killed when, the machine he's been working at for several months caught him and wrapped him round the shaft. Not a big shaft, mind you but it is part of a big ass Cincinnati vertical boring type machine, and it made him fit in the eight inch clearance. (This wasn't the main table, where the workpiece was, this was off to the side. I've never worked on one of these, so I don't know what things are called.) originally I understood it to have been a case of slipping on an oily spot on the floor, but apparently, what happened was he was cleaning up, and at the base of the shaft (a bit over an inch in diameter), there's a ring, and a locking pin which protrudes from that ring. Not much, calling it a half inch would be over doing it, and out about a quarter inch in diameter. Been these since Hector was a pup. But it apparently caught the rag and pulled him into the shaft. Which wrapped him around, like I said, and generally broke parts of him which didn't help. One of the other workers was passing by when it happened, but by the time he could hit the emergency off and get the machine stopped, it was all over but the screaming. You probably have a greater risk of death or maiming on the freeway to work, than at work, but ... you can get away with risky behaviors (on the freeway or off) until the last time, and then is when you say "That was dumb." Like I said - its the little things, the things you see everyday, the things which haven't been a problem before, the things you know what you are doing when around them, and not the great big honking dangerous parts, which can kill you. Clean it up, put it away, file the extra bit off the shaft retaining ring lock pin ... do something now, don't wait till someone else is having to get you out of the machine to "fix" the problem. It had been fifteen years since the last fatality, but not since the last injury. You can't be fearful, but OTOH, lets keep four fingers and a thumb. tschus pyotr Something for us all to remember. I wonder if sticking a little metal plaque on every machine that has caused a serrious injury (listing what, when and maybe who) would make a difference or if that might be to morbid... Ken like the crosses marking roadside deaths, the power of suggestion might have the opposite, unintended effect of focussing attention on injuries instead of safety. |
it's the little things which can kill you.
A city wide blackout at Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:36:59 +0000 did not prevent Andy
Dingley from posting to rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:22:08 -0500, Jeff Wisnia wrote: I'll never forget the time about forty years aga when a safety guy from our worker's compensation insurer visited our shop. He had a pack of hot dogs with him and started sticking them in moving machinery where fingers shouldn't go. A friend and I do a fair bit of plasma cutting. Curious as to what the one-day inevitable accident will look like, we stuck some spare barbecue sausages into an old welding glove and went at it with the plasma. An interesting experiment ! (We think it's going to hurt, but not do lasting damage unless you leave your hand underneath the nozzle) Its always going to hurt! Pain is mother nature's way of saying "Don't do that again you dumb f*cker!" Some learn by other people's mistakes. Some are other people. -- pyotr filipivich. as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with." |
it's the little things which can kill you.
A city wide blackout at Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:34:52 GMT did not prevent
(Roy) from posting to rec.crafts.metalworking the following: The old Monarch lathe at work is nothing but brute power. I often thought while using it, if one was to get caught would it even slow it down or make it grunt. I know things would give, but it would not be lathe parts. LOL. As I said describing this accident to non-shoppies: something with the horsepower to move that much metal isn't going to notice a hundredweight plus of meat. It will make you fit through the clearance.. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. -- pyotr filipivich. as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with." |
it's the little things which can kill you.
In article om,
Tom Gardner wrote: [ ... ] on my neck every time I hit a power button. My favorite is opening the quick-change tool holder on the lathe and the handle swung into the moving chuck...sounded like a gun-shot and I found the big part of the handle 6 months later 50 feet away. Could just as easily holed my melon. Just out of curiosity -- was that a piston-style quick-change toolpost? My Phase-II BXA size (series 200) wedge style won't swing the handle far enough to contact the chuck. And I'm certainly glad of it. Glad that it missed you. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
it's the little things which can kill you.
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it's the little things which can kill you.
Check out this series of articles for your back:
http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/back.php Karl "Jon Elson" wrote in message ... The guy with the hot dogs probably saved his company millions of dollars every year, just by putting a little scare into guys who had gotten too complacent. I've had a couple of close calls in the shop, like getting a fingernail broken or an "acid brush" wrapped around an end mill and then thrown across the room. I now use old toothbrushes for chip clearing and applying cutting lube. They behave a LOT better than those metal-handle acid brushes. But, the worst injuries I've had were with unpowered tools. I dropped a 30 Lb scraping straightedge on my big toe, and limped around for months. And, I wrenched my back working a 24 x 36" surface plate out of the back of my car. That one may never heal, and every time I overload the bad disc, it flares up again. Damn! Jon |
it's the little things which can kill you.
SNIP
Something for us all to remember. I wonder if sticking a little metal plaque on every machine that has caused a serrious injury (listing what, when and maybe who) would make a difference or if that might be to morbid... Ken like the crosses marking roadside deaths, the power of suggestion might have the opposite, unintended effect of focussing attention on injuries instead of safety. There's a truck I see around the Seattle area with these words on the mud flaps: "You can't be first but you can be next." and, "If you can't stop, smile as you go under" ERS |
it's the little things which can kill you.
In article ,
Something for us all to remember. I wonder if sticking a little metal plaque on every machine that has caused a serrious injury (listing what, when and maybe who) would make a difference or if that might be to morbid... I think it would be more instructive to stick a little metal plaque on the forehead of every person who gbot himself injured by a machine. I'll bet some people would be covered by plaques and most people would have none. -- free men own guns - slaves don't www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
it's the little things which can kill you.
In article , Nick Hull says...
I think it would be more instructive to stick a little metal plaque on the forehead of every person who gbot himself injured by a machine. I'll bet some people would be covered by plaques and most people would have none. Ha ha. That's truly hilarious! Reminds me of the movie _Gung_Ho_ where one character tells another one that the ribbons on his jacket are really pretty, and he replies "THOSE ARE BADGES OF SHAME!" Folks should be required to wear a placard of their IQ stapled to their forehead. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
it's the little things which can kill you.
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:04:56 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:
snip But, the worst injuries I've had were with unpowered tools. I dropped a 30 Lb scraping straightedge on my big toe, and limped around for months. And, I wrenched my back working a 24 x 36" surface plate out of the back of my car. That one may never heal, and every time I overload the bad disc, it flares up again. Damn! Jon I was explaining to my five year old daughter how dangerous saws were, while using a 3 foot bow saw to cut up some scrap wood for a bonfire. As I explained, the saw bounced and ran over my index finger. Ten years later I still have the scar. Mark Rand RTFM |
Bridgeport Spindle Stiffness?
Hi All,
Just wondering if anyone knows what the axial stiffness of a bridgeport or clone spindle is? I've seen some 40 taper spindles listed in the 500,000lbs/in for two bearings at the tool end, ranging up to 900,000 lbs/in for a 3 bearing (at the tool end) unit. I'm sure big mills go way higher. My BP clone's manual doesn't specify spindle stiffness and that has made me curious. TIA, Cheers, Peter |
it's the little things which can kill you.
In article , Mark Rand says...
I was explaining to my five year old daughter how dangerous saws were, while using a 3 foot bow saw to cut up some scrap wood for a bonfire. As I explained, the saw bounced and ran over my index finger. Ten years later I still have the scar. Funny how daughters seem to have that effect. Mine stills says, 'remember that time dad was showing me how dangerous really sharp knives are...." Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
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