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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
I am using Devcon Steel Putty, and it always worked before.
Is it the cold temp in the shop ~ 40 degrees? Could the stuff have frozen in my car? Does it get old? What went wrong? TIA |
#2
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
"Clark Magnuson" wrote in message . .. I am using Devcon Steel Putty, and it always worked before. Does it get old? In my opinion, yes, it does. I've used some outdated stuff that wouldn't harden. What I used wasn't Devcon, but it was a two part compound-----an epoxy of sorts. Never did get hard, although it did get quite stiff. Harold |
#3
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
Does it get old? In my opinion, yes, it does. I've used some outdated stuff that wouldn't harden. What I used wasn't Devcon, but it was a two part compound-----an epoxy of sorts. Never did get hard, although it did get quite stiff. I have this exact problem. Hope the SO doesn't trade me in. VBG Karl |
#4
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
Try baking it. It should speed up the set if it's ever going to set.
Karl "Clark Magnuson" wrote in message . .. I am using Devcon Steel Putty, and it always worked before. Is it the cold temp in the shop ~ 40 degrees? Could the stuff have frozen in my car? Does it get old? What went wrong? TIA |
#5
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
The label on the can probably says, "Use at 70 degrees F. or higher",
or something to that effect. Once it has been mixed in the cold it seems to be more difficult to set up even when warmed. Bugs |
#6
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
Clark Magnuson wrote:
I am using Devcon Steel Putty, and it always worked before. Is it the cold temp in the shop ~ 40 degrees? Probably has something to do with it. Could the stuff have frozen in my car? Does it have a minimum storage temperature? If it got too cold some components might have separated. Does it get old? Most chemistry does--with single part adhesives and putties they typically just get hard. If it's two part then it may not cure properly--I've seen this happen to epoxies and polyurethanes even if they were stored under "ideal conditions" in a well equipped laboratory. More insidious--even if it does _appear_ to have cured properly the properties of the cured material may not be very high. What went wrong? TIA -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#7
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
On or around Mon, 19 Dec 2005 00:29:04 -0800, Clark Magnuson
enlightened us thusly: I am using Devcon Steel Putty, and it always worked before. Is it the cold temp in the shop ~ 40 degrees? Could the stuff have frozen in my car? Does it get old? What went wrong? probably the cold temperature. Try warming it? -- Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!" Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii. |
#8
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
In article ,
Clark Magnuson wrote: I am using Devcon Steel Putty, and it always worked before. Is it the cold temp in the shop ~ 40 degrees? Could the stuff have frozen in my car? Does it get old? What went wrong? Both cold and age are possible problems, as is a bad mix. Hard to tell which it is though. In the late 1960s, I was a summer student in the plastics lab at RCA, working on pieces of the lunar lander. Almost everything in the lander electronics was glued together, because glue weighed less than mechanical fasteners. Anyway, a constant fear was of a bad mix, so we would mix a batch, put a little bit into a aluminum foil cup, and cure for five or ten minutes at 180 degrees F, and give the sample to the quality-control inspector. If all was well, the sample had hardened, and wasn't at all tacky or sticky to the touch. If not, into the trash the entire mixed batch went. One trick was to cure the joint overnight at room temperature, and then finish at 180 degrees. This was done because uncured epoxy at 180 degrees is very runny, and wouldn't stay where put. Let it cure overnight and it wound stay even when hot. The heat was needed for the strongest cure. At this point, the best approach is to pull the joint apart, clean the soft epoxy out mechanically and the residue off with acetone, and start again. If the joint is properly cleaned, the failed attempt will not interfere with the subsequent attempt. Joe Gwinn |
#9
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
Clark Magnuson asked:
Is it the cold temp in the shop ~ 40 degrees? The rough rule of thumb is that for every ten degrees lower in temperature, it'll take twice as long. This is very rough - there are some reactions where dropping below some temperature really does stop everything, and there are others where getting above some criticial temperature makes everything explode. Anyway, at 30 degrees below "nominal" 70 degrees, that's roughly 8 times as long. If you have a heat lamp, you might try aiming it at the joint (possibly putting a box around for insulation) and see if this gets it to cure. Even when it's not too cold, I often use heat lamps to speed up the curing of epoxy (impatience!) Tim. |
#10
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
Clark Magnuson wrote:
I am using Devcon Steel Putty, and it always worked before. Is it the cold temp in the shop ~ 40 degrees? Could the stuff have frozen in my car? Does it get old? What went wrong? TIA That's one of the things I don't like about Devcon. I seem to remember it only has a 1-year shelf life. GWE |
#11
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
"Ignoramus22094" wrote in message
.. . If the epoxy does not harden because of cold, it is nothing to worry about, it will harden eventually just as good. Add some heat if you want it to happen sooner. I'm not so sure about that. My memory is failing me on this, but my vague recollection is that epoxy cured with polyamine (which Devcon almost certainly is) has to be formulated for a certain temperature range or it may never achieve a strong or hard cure. The hardeners used in high performance prepregs, which can be refrigerated for long periods without losing strength when they're taken out of the refrigerator and cured at higher temperatures, generally do not use polyamine hardeners. They require a two-stage elevated-temperature cure and their chemistry is different. WEST System and other formulators make low-temp polyamine-cure epoxies, but they're made specifically for that purpose. And their bonding strength generally is not as high as room-temperature- or elevated-temperature-cure epoxies. You never know until you try it. -- Ed Huntress |
#12
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
"Tim Shoppa" wrote in message ps.com... Clark Magnuson asked: Is it the cold temp in the shop ~ 40 degrees? The rough rule of thumb is that for every ten degrees lower in temperature, it'll take twice as long. This is very rough - there are some reactions where dropping below some temperature really does stop everything, and there are others where getting above some criticial temperature makes everything explode. Anyway, at 30 degrees below "nominal" 70 degrees, that's roughly 8 times as long. If you have a heat lamp, you might try aiming it at the joint (possibly putting a box around for insulation) and see if this gets it to cure. Even when it's not too cold, I often use heat lamps to speed up the curing of epoxy (impatience!) Tim - I think that rule of thumb for reaction rates is for degrees centigrade, not degrees Fahrenheit. |
#13
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
"Ignoramus22094" wrote in message
... On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:22:23 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote: "Ignoramus22094" wrote in message .. . If the epoxy does not harden because of cold, it is nothing to worry about, it will harden eventually just as good. Add some heat if you want it to happen sooner. I'm not so sure about that. My memory is failing me on this, but my vague recollection is that epoxy cured with polyamine (which Devcon almost certainly is) has to be formulated for a certain temperature range or it may never achieve a strong or hard cure. The hardeners used in high performance prepregs, which can be refrigerated for long periods without losing strength when they're taken out of the refrigerator and cured at higher temperatures, generally do not use polyamine hardeners. They require a two-stage elevated-temperature cure and their chemistry is different. WEST System and other formulators make low-temp polyamine-cure epoxies, but they're made specifically for that purpose. And their bonding strength generally is not as high as room-temperature- or elevated-temperature-cure epoxies. You never know until you try it. I experimented with epoxy setting in winter (purchased in bulk from raka.com), and my epoxy hardened quite well after a very long time. OK, but that's the one *you* used. I wish I could remember this because I read a lot about it when I wrote a Special Report for American Machinist on the subject of adhesives for metalworking. But that was too long ago. There's probably plenty of information about it on the Web. It just takes some motivation and some time. Cold-weather curing is a big issue in boatbuilding so I'd check first at those sites, such as WEST System, System Three, etc. -- Ed Huntress |
#14
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 00:29:04 -0800, Clark Magnuson wrote:
I am using Devcon Steel Putty, and it always worked before. I mixed a batch of epoxy in a wax-paper cup once, it never hardened. I'm told that wax kills epoxy, but never researched it - I just use plastic tubs now. |
#15
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
"Ignoramus22094" wrote in message
.. . On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:43:01 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote: "Ignoramus22094" wrote in message ... On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:22:23 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote: "Ignoramus22094" wrote in message .. . If the epoxy does not harden because of cold, it is nothing to worry about, it will harden eventually just as good. Add some heat if you want it to happen sooner. I'm not so sure about that. My memory is failing me on this, but my vague recollection is that epoxy cured with polyamine (which Devcon almost certainly is) has to be formulated for a certain temperature range or it may never achieve a strong or hard cure. The hardeners used in high performance prepregs, which can be refrigerated for long periods without losing strength when they're taken out of the refrigerator and cured at higher temperatures, generally do not use polyamine hardeners. They require a two-stage elevated-temperature cure and their chemistry is different. WEST System and other formulators make low-temp polyamine-cure epoxies, but they're made specifically for that purpose. And their bonding strength generally is not as high as room-temperature- or elevated-temperature-cure epoxies. You never know until you try it. I experimented with epoxy setting in winter (purchased in bulk from raka.com), and my epoxy hardened quite well after a very long time. OK, but that's the one *you* used. I wish I could remember this because I read a lot about it when I wrote a Special Report for American Machinist on the subject of adhesives for metalworking. But that was too long ago. There's probably plenty of information about it on the Web. It just takes some motivation and some time. Cold-weather curing is a big issue in boatbuilding so I'd check first at those sites, such as WEST System, System Three, etc. Thank you Ed. I learned something today. I thought that all epoxies hardened similarly, and used my experience, which was wrong. i Hey, epoxy is interesting stuff. The mixes we get for home and shop use are just the tip of the iceberg. When you look into the formulations that are available to industry, you'll see how they're able to glue aluminum airplanes together and to make those super-strong, super-stiff carbon-fiber laminates. It ain't Devcon. g -- Ed Huntress |
#16
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
"Karl Townsend" remove .NOT wrote in message k.net... Does it get old? In my opinion, yes, it does. I've used some outdated stuff that wouldn't harden. What I used wasn't Devcon, but it was a two part compound-----an epoxy of sorts. Never did get hard, although it did get quite stiff. I have this exact problem. Hope the SO doesn't trade me in. VBG Karl When the two part stuff didn't get hard, I turned to the SO, who made what ever was left get stiff enough to be of service. She didn't appear to be interested in any trades. Could be I have a good model. You know how some are lemons. g Harold |
#17
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
Could definately be all of them thoughts.
I have had varous results from the stuff setting too fast or not setting at all in regards to temperatures, and storage does play an important part as to it maintaining its inherit properties either of strength or setup time.. Everything made that gets old fails to work properly......my body tells me that every year, and epoxy would not be any different. The military pitches tons of epoxie type materials all the time.........I used to drag all kinds of stuff home.....9 out of 10 times my results were not anywhere near like what fresh properly stored unexpired material produced and used within the temp range. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 00:29:04 -0800, Clark Magnuson wrote: I am using Devcon Steel Putty, and it always worked before. Is it the cold temp in the shop ~ 40 degrees? Could the stuff have frozen in my car? Does it get old? What went wrong? TIA -- \\\|/// ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo(_)oOOo--------------- oooO ---------( )----Oooo---------------- \ ( ( ) \_) ) / (_/ The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates.... |
#18
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
Grant Erwin wrote:
Clark Magnuson wrote: I am using Devcon Steel Putty, and it always worked before. Is it the cold temp in the shop ~ 40 degrees? Could the stuff have frozen in my car? Does it get old? What went wrong? TIA That's one of the things I don't like about Devcon. I seem to remember it only has a 1-year shelf life. GWE We store the stuff in the refrigerator and that seems to extend its life. John |
#19
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
Ed Huntress wrote:
"John" wrote in message ... Grant Erwin wrote: Clark Magnuson wrote: I am using Devcon Steel Putty, and it always worked before. Is it the cold temp in the shop ~ 40 degrees? Could the stuff have frozen in my car? Does it get old? What went wrong? TIA That's one of the things I don't like about Devcon. I seem to remember it only has a 1-year shelf life. GWE We store the stuff in the refrigerator and that seems to extend its life. That will extend its life. A particularly important thing to do, though, is to warm it up before you mix it. It's cold mixing that is the dominant problem in cold-weather use of epoxy. The hardener and the epoxy may never properly react if you mix them cold. -- Ed Huntress Yup, I always warmed it up before I mixed it. Also the stuff that was left over of the mixed batch became the test sample for harderning. I never used the out of date epoxy for anything critical. John |
#20
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
"John" wrote in message
... Grant Erwin wrote: Clark Magnuson wrote: I am using Devcon Steel Putty, and it always worked before. Is it the cold temp in the shop ~ 40 degrees? Could the stuff have frozen in my car? Does it get old? What went wrong? TIA That's one of the things I don't like about Devcon. I seem to remember it only has a 1-year shelf life. GWE We store the stuff in the refrigerator and that seems to extend its life. That will extend its life. A particularly important thing to do, though, is to warm it up before you mix it. It's cold mixing that is the dominant problem in cold-weather use of epoxy. The hardener and the epoxy may never properly react if you mix them cold. -- Ed Huntress |
#21
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
Didn't know that. Could be because I'm in Hawaii.
Karl "Bugs" wrote in message oups.com... The label on the can probably says, "Use at 70 degrees F. or higher", or something to that effect. Once it has been mixed in the cold it seems to be more difficult to set up even when warmed. Bugs |
#22
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
"Roy" wrote in message ... Could definately be all of them thoughts. I have had varous results from the stuff setting too fast or not -snip- stored unexpired material produced and used within the temp range. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 00:29:04 -0800, Clark Magnuson wrote: I am using Devcon Steel Putty, and it always worked before. Is it the cold temp in the shop ~ 40 degrees? Could the stuff have frozen in my car? Does it get old? What went wrong? TIA funny thing, i just mixed up a small batch of epoxy, the stuff i have is OLD, 10 years mebbe. mixing it on a paper plate with a pocket knife. squeezed a little blob and set the tube down, got distracted by something, went to pick up the other tube and was like "dang! which one did i already use?!" and thought of your post. turned out i got lucky and added a blob from the second tube but wondered if maybe you put two "part b"s? b.w. |
#23
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
A few years back we had a bunch of 2 part epoxy that had gone past its
shelf life. So just for grins and giggles, we dicided to mix a can of it up and see if it would get hard. These were half pint sized kits of epoxy adhesive we had, and we have always mixed up the full contents of one can into the other can. Our work benchs in the shop had thick 1/2" wool felt tops on them to prevent scratching of aluminum aircraft parts etc, and also allow you to drill through things without marring up the bench tops........We mixed up a couple of cans of the stuff, and let them set on the bench and took a break.......We were all setting in the office when we started to smell something that was pretty acrid and foul smelling. We looked around and went back into the shop area to find the top of the work bench on fire......The expired epoxie put out sufficient heat to cause the stuff to combust, and in the process the felt tops on the benchs started to smoulder as well........ The boss said, no way that epoxie did that, someone probbaly left a cigarette laying on the bench and it caught the top on fire, so we mixed up another can and placed it outside on a piece of sheet metal......In about 20 minutes it erupted like a volcano and self combusted...... On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:30:39 GMT, "William Wixon" wrote: "Roy" wrote in message . .. Could definately be all of them thoughts. I have had varous results from the stuff setting too fast or not -snip- stored unexpired material produced and used within the temp range. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 00:29:04 -0800, Clark Magnuson wrote: I am using Devcon Steel Putty, and it always worked before. Is it the cold temp in the shop ~ 40 degrees? Could the stuff have frozen in my car? Does it get old? What went wrong? TIA funny thing, i just mixed up a small batch of epoxy, the stuff i have is OLD, 10 years mebbe. mixing it on a paper plate with a pocket knife. squeezed a little blob and set the tube down, got distracted by something, went to pick up the other tube and was like "dang! which one did i already use?!" and thought of your post. turned out i got lucky and added a blob from the second tube but wondered if maybe you put two "part b"s? b.w. -- \\\|/// ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo(_)oOOo--------------- oooO ---------( )----Oooo---------------- \ ( ( ) \_) ) / (_/ The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates.... |
#24
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
"Roy" wrote in message
... A few years back we had a bunch of 2 part epoxy that had gone past its shelf life. So just for grins and giggles, we dicided to mix a can of it up and see if it would get hard. These were half pint sized kits of epoxy adhesive we had, and we have always mixed up the full contents of one can into the other can. Our work benchs in the shop had thick 1/2" wool felt tops on them to prevent scratching of aluminum aircraft parts etc, and also allow you to drill through things without marring up the bench tops........We mixed up a couple of cans of the stuff, and let them set on the bench and took a break.......We were all setting in the office when we started to smell something that was pretty acrid and foul smelling. We looked around and went back into the shop area to find the top of the work bench on fire......The expired epoxie put out sufficient heat to cause the stuff to combust, and in the process the felt tops on the benchs started to smoulder as well........ The boss said, no way that epoxie did that, someone probbaly left a cigarette laying on the bench and it caught the top on fire, so we mixed up another can and placed it outside on a piece of sheet metal......In about 20 minutes it erupted like a volcano and self combusted...... This is a problem when you use epoxy (or polyester, or vinylester, or two-part polyurethane) that was formulated for a different purpose. If you take a two-part polymerizing resin that's made for use as a coating or an adhesive, or for laminating, then mix up a big batch and let it sit in a mass (or a coffee can) while it cures, the exotherm can make the stuff catch on fire or even explode. Resins made for casting in thick sections or masses have much lower exotherm. Be careful. -- Ed Huntress |
#25
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:40:27 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
Grant Erwin quickly quoth: That's one of the things I don't like about Devcon. I seem to remember it only has a 1-year shelf life. I bought two tubes of 5-min Epoxy 3 years ago and successfully used one this year. Hmmm, shelf life not marked on package AFAICT. Googling...Eek, the Devcon UK sites list 1, 2, & 3 year shelf lives on epoxies. www.Devcon.com doesn't list a shelf life. (Bastids.) So, what does a pound of Titanium Putty cost? They recommend it for shaft repairs where a bearing failed. Do I even want to know? OUCH! -- Action is eloquence. --William Shakespeare (1564-1616) |
#26
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
... On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:40:27 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, Grant Erwin quickly quoth: That's one of the things I don't like about Devcon. I seem to remember it only has a 1-year shelf life. I bought two tubes of 5-min Epoxy 3 years ago and successfully used one this year. Hmmm, shelf life not marked on package AFAICT. Googling...Eek, the Devcon UK sites list 1, 2, & 3 year shelf lives on epoxies. www.Devcon.com doesn't list a shelf life. (Bastids.) So, what does a pound of Titanium Putty cost? They recommend it for shaft repairs where a bearing failed. Do I even want to know? OUCH! I don't take the expiration dates seriously. Last year I used an unopened pint of polyester casting resin that was about 10 years past the ex date. It had been kept fairly cool in my basement. It worked perfectly. I've also used 5- or 6-year-old Bondo. No problem. I have two bottles of laminating System Three epoxy that I use from time to time, over a period of 8 or 9 years. 'Works fine. But I keep them cool. -- Ed Huntress |
#27
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:26:17 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:40:27 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, Grant Erwin quickly quoth: That's one of the things I don't like about Devcon. I seem to remember it only has a 1-year shelf life. I bought two tubes of 5-min Epoxy 3 years ago and successfully used one this year. Hmmm, shelf life not marked on package AFAICT. Googling...Eek, the Devcon UK sites list 1, 2, & 3 year shelf lives on epoxies. www.Devcon.com doesn't list a shelf life. (Bastids.) So, what does a pound of Titanium Putty cost? They recommend it for shaft repairs where a bearing failed. Do I even want to know? OUCH! I don't take the expiration dates seriously. Last year I used an unopened pint of polyester casting resin that was about 10 years past the ex date. It had been kept fairly cool in my basement. It worked perfectly. I've also used 5- or 6-year-old Bondo. No problem. I have two bottles of laminating System Three epoxy that I use from time to time, over a period of 8 or 9 years. 'Works fine. But I keep them cool. A local (Lansing MI) builder, who is a West System dealer, has a gallon of West System resin that is at least 20 yrs old that sits on top of a cabinet in his shop (which is heated occasionally to do some work).. He says every couple years he mixes a batch and it always does fine. |
#28
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
"k.pearson" wrote in message
... On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:26:17 -0500, "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:40:27 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, Grant Erwin quickly quoth: That's one of the things I don't like about Devcon. I seem to remember it only has a 1-year shelf life. I bought two tubes of 5-min Epoxy 3 years ago and successfully used one this year. Hmmm, shelf life not marked on package AFAICT. Googling...Eek, the Devcon UK sites list 1, 2, & 3 year shelf lives on epoxies. www.Devcon.com doesn't list a shelf life. (Bastids.) So, what does a pound of Titanium Putty cost? They recommend it for shaft repairs where a bearing failed. Do I even want to know? OUCH! I don't take the expiration dates seriously. Last year I used an unopened pint of polyester casting resin that was about 10 years past the ex date. It had been kept fairly cool in my basement. It worked perfectly. I've also used 5- or 6-year-old Bondo. No problem. I have two bottles of laminating System Three epoxy that I use from time to time, over a period of 8 or 9 years. 'Works fine. But I keep them cool. A local (Lansing MI) builder, who is a West System dealer, has a gallon of West System resin that is at least 20 yrs old that sits on top of a cabinet in his shop (which is heated occasionally to do some work).. He says every couple years he mixes a batch and it always does fine. That doesn't surprise me. BTW, would you mind telling me who the builder is? I was on the MSU crew, and later the sailing team, and I knew the Gougeon brothers and sailed against them in Bay City. If the builder has been around that WEST group for a few decades, I might know him. -- Ed Huntress |
#29
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
k.pearson wrote:
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:26:17 -0500, "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message . .. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:40:27 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, Grant Erwin quickly quoth: That's one of the things I don't like about Devcon. I seem to remember it only has a 1-year shelf life. I bought two tubes of 5-min Epoxy 3 years ago and successfully used one this year. Hmmm, shelf life not marked on package AFAICT. Googling...Eek, the Devcon UK sites list 1, 2, & 3 year shelf lives on epoxies. www.Devcon.com doesn't list a shelf life. (Bastids.) So, what does a pound of Titanium Putty cost? They recommend it for shaft repairs where a bearing failed. Do I even want to know? OUCH! I don't take the expiration dates seriously. Last year I used an unopened pint of polyester casting resin that was about 10 years past the ex date. It had been kept fairly cool in my basement. It worked perfectly. I've also used 5- or 6-year-old Bondo. No problem. I have two bottles of laminating System Three epoxy that I use from time to time, over a period of 8 or 9 years. 'Works fine. But I keep them cool. A local (Lansing MI) builder, who is a West System dealer, has a gallon of West System resin that is at least 20 yrs old that sits on top of a cabinet in his shop (which is heated occasionally to do some work).. He says every couple years he mixes a batch and it always does fine. How does he know it "does fine"? Does he make up specimens and do structural tests on them? If not then he doesn't know that it "did fine", all he knows is that it got hard. -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#30
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
8 or 9 years. 'Works fine. But I keep them cool. A local (Lansing MI) builder, who is a West System dealer, has a gallon of West System resin that is at least 20 yrs old that sits on top of a cabinet in his shop (which is heated occasionally to do some work).. He says every couple years he mixes a batch and it always does fine. That doesn't surprise me. BTW, would you mind telling me who the builder is? I was on the MSU crew, and later the sailing team, and I knew the Gougeon brothers and sailed against them in Bay City. If the builder has been around that WEST group for a few decades, I might know him. -- Ed Huntress West System is some seriously good stuff. Some epoxies, resins etc have some volitiles to make them easy to work with, and those evaporate, leaving mud |
#31
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:33:45 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: "k.pearson" wrote in message .. . A local (Lansing MI) builder, who is a West System dealer, has a gallon of West System resin that is at least 20 yrs old that sits on top of a cabinet in his shop (which is heated occasionally to do some work).. He says every couple years he mixes a batch and it always does fine. That doesn't surprise me. BTW, would you mind telling me who the builder is? I was on the MSU crew, and later the sailing team, and I knew the Gougeon brothers and sailed against them in Bay City. If the builder has been around that WEST group for a few decades, I might know him. Don (argh - sputter - grimace _ I hate getting old). Our age, had a radio show and is voice for a Northern Michgian TV travel show. Makes canoes, teaches boat building.. Not listed as a dealer now. I'm working on it. Were you on crew during either the Bill Smoke or Al Bay eras? I started a rowing club in Lansing in '87 and got to know a lot about MSU crew. My first interaction with crew was a trade where I refereed a regatta for them on the Grand and they helped put a board track for a six day bike race in Dem Hall. Karl Pearson |
#32
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
"yourname" wrote in message
news:cVgqf.5010$u36.3755@trndny01... snip West System is some seriously good stuff. Some epoxies, resins etc have some volitiles to make them easy to work with, and those evaporate, leaving mud. Yes, I think WEST System is 100% solids. If I were building a big boat I'd use it, even though it's pretty pricey. They've really worked it all out very well, including mixing, application, and the whole works. -- Ed Huntress |
#33
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
"k.pearson" wrote in message
... On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:33:45 -0500, "Ed Huntress" wrote: "k.pearson" wrote in message .. . A local (Lansing MI) builder, who is a West System dealer, has a gallon of West System resin that is at least 20 yrs old that sits on top of a cabinet in his shop (which is heated occasionally to do some work).. He says every couple years he mixes a batch and it always does fine. That doesn't surprise me. BTW, would you mind telling me who the builder is? I was on the MSU crew, and later the sailing team, and I knew the Gougeon brothers and sailed against them in Bay City. If the builder has been around that WEST group for a few decades, I might know him. Don (argh - sputter - grimace _ I hate getting old). Our age, had a radio show and is voice for a Northern Michgian TV travel show. Makes canoes, teaches boat building.. Not listed as a dealer now. I'm working on it. Sorry, 'getting old too. g I don't remember anyone like that. He probably came after my time -- sometime after the outboard motor was invented. Were you on crew during either the Bill Smoke or Al Bay eras? I started a rowing club in Lansing in '87 and got to know a lot about MSU crew. My first interaction with crew was a trade where I refereed a regatta for them on the Grand and they helped put a board track for a six day bike race in Dem Hall. I was on the lightweight crew during its first two years of resurrection: 1966 and 1967. Spring of '67 was the year that Grand Valley state rowed against us on the Grand River, in their brand-new Pocock racing shell, and one of their crew slipped his foot out of the shoe, put a hole through the bottom of the boat right in the middle of a race, and sunk the boat in water that was maybe 45 deg. F. g The MSU lightweight varsity crew was seven little muscled Polish guys from the Hamtramck and Ecorse boat clubs, and me. I was the skinny one they stuck in the bow. We were fast but our coach broke us down. That was before they knew how much training was enough. We were 'way over the top in that department. So, the guys you knew were much younger. I never kept up with it after moving to NJ. -- Ed Huntress |
#34
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:06:25 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote: k.pearson wrote: A local (Lansing MI) builder, who is a West System dealer, has a gallon of West System resin that is at least 20 yrs old that sits on top of a cabinet in his shop (which is heated occasionally to do some work).. He says every couple years he mixes a batch and it always does fine. How does he know it "does fine"? Does he make up specimens and do structural tests on them? If not then he doesn't know that it "did fine", all he knows is that it got hard. Well, he doesn't run structural tests, but he does make up a section of cloth with it and hand tests it relative to newer resin in the same cloth. Can't tell any noticeable difference, but that's not real 'testing' of course. Us canoe / kayak builders aren't nearly as fussy as people who use the stuff to lift their butts in the air or drive at breakneck speed. |
#35
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
Warm it up slowly with an electric space heater or a hairdryer. It will
setup after it becomes slightly more viscous. Most epoxies I have dealt with will crosslink even without the catalyst part if drawn to the right temperature. Don't let it bubble or it will become brittle. |
#36
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:50:27 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: "k.pearson" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:33:45 -0500, "Ed Huntress" wrote: I was on the lightweight crew during its first two years of resurrection: 1966 and 1967. Spring of '67 was the year that Grand Valley state rowed against us on the Grand River, in their brand-new Pocock racing shell, and one of their crew slipped his foot out of the shoe, put a hole through the bottom of the boat right in the middle of a race, and sunk the boat in water that was maybe 45 deg. F. g The MSU lightweight varsity crew was seven little muscled Polish guys from the Hamtramck and Ecorse boat clubs, and me. I was the skinny one they stuck in the bow. We were fast but our coach broke us down. That was before they knew how much training was enough. We were 'way over the top in that department. So, the guys you knew were much younger. I never kept up with it after moving to NJ. Great story Ed. I'll file it with the other ones. I remember watching Michigan Tech's concrete canoe team slowly sink in the Grand in water about that same temp. Everyone on shore was laughing wildly, and the paddlers were really vocal in another way. |
#37
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Epoxy still soft after 2 days.....what's wrong?
"k.pearson" wrote in message
news Great story Ed. I'll file it with the other ones. I remember watching Michigan Tech's concrete canoe team slowly sink in the Grand in water about that same temp. Everyone on shore was laughing wildly, and the paddlers were really vocal in another way. Haha! Concrete canoes must be a gas. I've never seen them, but I've seen photos. BTW, my memory is slipping: one of the boat clubs that supplied experienced junior rowers to MSU at that time was the Wyandotte boat club, not Hamtramck. Hamtramck supplied us with soccer players. It was Wyandotte and Ecorse that had the rowers. -- Ed Huntress |
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