I posted this to another thread and thought it might be helpful to
others as well.

Martin said:

When you get a rigger - make sure they know what they are expected to do BEFORE agreeing.
You might have the wrong type of rigger. You want them to come with
the correct equipment.

And I said:

The MOST important thing to remember when checking out a company doing
rigging is : GET A COPY OF THEIR CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE.


With the proper insurance you'll usually find they're a legitimate
company; no legitimate company will subject you, or themselfs, to the
risk of NOT having insurance.


They should be able to show you proof of: 1. Liability insurance
including medical liability. 2. Property damage insurance covering
machinery. 3. Workers Compensation insurance.


The value of the first two are self evident, the last even more
serious. If a worker were to be injured and the employer not have
insurance you may find yourself (and maybe your insurance company)
holding the bag. This could amount to a VERY large amount of money the
way the courts are handing it out these days. Your liability will vary
from state to state.


Ask for, and receive, a current certificate of insurance BEFORE giving
out the job.


I used to tell my customers the main difference between riggers moving
machinery and a company, or individual, moving machinery was insurance.

I still stand behind that statement.


dennis
in nca

"Ignoramus19198" wrote in message
. ..
And how does a legitimate certificate of insurance look? And how can
I verify that insurance is in fact given to the person presenting it?

For example, let's say someone says that they are an insured rigger
from company XYZ. And shows a copy of insurance certificate. What is
this person is taking a day of from his job at XYZ trying to make a
buck on his own? That would not be an covered situation, if something
happens.

i


Your e-mail address says it all...

--

Clif

Iggy asked:
And how does a legitimate certificate of insurance look? And how can
I verify that insurance is in fact given to the person presenting it?


For example, let's say someone says that they are an insured rigger
from company XYZ. And shows a copy of insurance certificate. What is
this person is taking a day of from his job at XYZ trying to make a
buck on his own? That would not be an covered situation, if something
happens.

You can ask for the name of the insurance broker and give them a call
if it looks funny. Most agents will send the certificate directly to
you (ain't fax wonderful?). The date of the certificate (not the
policy) should be current, which should help protect against a
cancelled policy.

dennis
in nca

In article ,
Ignoramus19198 wrote:

For example, let's say someone says that they are an insured rigger
from company XYZ. And shows a copy of insurance certificate. What is
this person is taking a day of from his job at XYZ trying to make a
buck on his own? That would not be an covered situation, if something
happens.

Duh, well, Iggy, when I call my local riggers, I call the office,
generally after looking up their number in the yellow pages (since I
don't call them all that often.) Since I call the office to arrange the
work, I have a reasonable expectation of getting the services of the
company, not the services of some guy working on the side. They show up
in a company truck, and the company sends me a bill, which I pay to the
company, via check in the mail.

If you slink around in back alleys calling "here rigger, here rigger"
while waving cash around, you'll get all the rigging you deserve...or
mugged.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

"rigger" wrote in message
oups.com...
I posted this to another thread and thought it might be helpful to
others as well.

Martin said:

When you get a rigger - make sure they know what they are expected to do
BEFORE agreeing.
You might have the wrong type of rigger. You want them to come with
the correct equipment.

And I said:

The MOST important thing to remember when checking out a company doing
rigging is : GET A COPY OF THEIR CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE.


With the proper insurance you'll usually find they're a legitimate
company; no legitimate company will subject you, or themselfs, to the
risk of NOT having insurance.


They should be able to show you proof of: 1. Liability insurance
including medical liability. 2. Property damage insurance covering
machinery. 3. Workers Compensation insurance.


The value of the first two are self evident, the last even more
serious. If a worker were to be injured and the employer not have
insurance you may find yourself (and maybe your insurance company)
holding the bag. This could amount to a VERY large amount of money the
way the courts are handing it out these days. Your liability will vary
from state to state.


Ask for, and receive, a current certificate of insurance BEFORE giving
out the job.


I used to tell my customers the main difference between riggers moving
machinery and a company, or individual, moving machinery was insurance.

I still stand behind that statement.


dennis
in nca


I AM A RIGGER.

I learned in the Gulf of Mexico. I am Offshore Petroleum Institute
certified.

That don't mean squat, though.

If I go do work for someone, I can mess up, the rigging can mess up, or
Murphy's Law can jump up.

Yes, insurance is the difference.

Steve

"Ignoramus19198" wrote in message
. ..
And how does a legitimate certificate of insurance look? And how can
I verify that insurance is in fact given to the person presenting it?

For example, let's say someone says that they are an insured rigger
from company XYZ. And shows a copy of insurance certificate. What is
this person is taking a day of from his job at XYZ trying to make a
buck on his own? That would not be an covered situation, if something
happens.

i


It works like this with contractors, or at least in my state where I was a
steel erection contractor for nine years.

The person/company wanting to have the work done says, "I want proof of
insurance." I have to then contact my insurance carrier and ask that THEY
send that company proof DIRECTLY. I never touch the correspondence. The
proof is mailed directly from the insurer to the company requesting the
work.

Avoid anyone who will "give" you a COPY of their insurance certificate.
They can be made in five minutes on a computer, or in less on a copy machine
with some White Out.

LEARN as a consumer how it works in YOUR state, and follow the procedures
EXACTLY.

Being informed on how it works is your best friend.

HTH

Steve

Steve tells us:

I AM A RIGGER.

That's great. I am/was one also. Became a Journeyman around 1966 in
Chicago Local 136. What kind of apprentice program does the Institute
provide? Is this also a union job? Are you affiliated with the Iron
Workers?

dennis
in nca

"Ignoramus19198" wrote

Thanks Steve, that's very helpful. Sometimes it helps to be a little
paranoid.

i

If it is paranoid to be cautious about something that you can have your butt
sued off for, I guess I am REALLY paranoid.

But, hey, people don't just sue at the drop of a hat with no reason today,
do they? Nah. People who think that must be paranoid.

Now, I'm going back to the closet and curl up under my bankie and listen for
the silent invisible black helicopters .............

Steve ;-)

"rigger" wrote in message
oups.com...
Steve tells us:

I AM A RIGGER.

That's great. I am/was one also. Became a Journeyman around 1966 in
Chicago Local 136. What kind of apprentice program does the Institute
provide? Is this also a union job? Are you affiliated with the Iron
Workers?

dennis
in nca


I attended that OSHA sanctioned OPI school. I also completed in house
schools at Reading and Bates Drilling Company, and with Teamster's Local
631, Las Vegas. I was a commercial diver for six years. I ran a 30 ton
crane on an offshore platform for two years. I worked in oil derrick
erection for about a year and a half. (scary stuff)

I got a lot of hands on experience, experience from seeing things done
wrong, and some out of books.

There are people who can talk rigging, then there are those of us who will
go out, hook it up, and make the lift. And get it right. And be safe.

I miss the tension, the excitement, the POWER.

About the only thing I have done that is more exciting or empowering is
working with explosives. That was at a grunt level of setting them
underwater, but hey, we got to touch them, and most everyone else was
forbidden within 20 feet.

I miss the adventure, too. High seas. Spartan living conditions. Heavy
dangerous work. Comraderie with guys who would jump in to save you without
thinking.

I'm glad I lived through it (some didn't).

Steve

"rigger" wrote in message
oups.com...

With the proper insurance you'll usually find they're a legitimate
company; no legitimate company will subject you, or themselfs, to the
risk of NOT having insurance.


They should be able to show you proof of: 1. Liability insurance
including medical liability. 2. Property damage insurance covering
machinery. 3. Workers Compensation insurance.


You don't want to be dealing with no broke rigga...........

rigger writes:

Ask for, and receive, a current certificate of insurance BEFORE giving
out the job.

The *only* thing that counts is an ORIGINAL CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE from
THE INSURER or their AGENT, listing YOU AS A PARTY. COPIES DO NOT COUNT,
POLICY PAPERWORK DOES NOT COUNT, NOTHING BUT AN ORIGINAL WITH YOUR NAME ON
IT. THIS IS HOW THE BUSINESS WORKS. If he has in fact paid for
insurance, then he will be more than willing to proudly give you such a
certificate. Or rather, have it sent, since it comes from the insurer, not
the insured.

An assertion, verbal or written, but lacking a certificate, from the
insured that he carries insurance is worse than worthless. because he is
evading the normal certification process, which is highly suspect.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote

The *only* thing that counts is an ORIGINAL CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE from
THE INSURER or their AGENT, listing YOU AS A PARTY. COPIES DO NOT COUNT,
POLICY PAPERWORK DOES NOT COUNT, NOTHING BUT AN ORIGINAL WITH YOUR NAME ON
IT. THIS IS HOW THE BUSINESS WORKS. If he has in fact paid for
insurance, then he will be more than willing to proudly give you such a
certificate. Or rather, have it sent, since it comes from the insurer,
not
the insured.

An assertion, verbal or written, but lacking a certificate, from the
insured that he carries insurance is worse than worthless. because he is
evading the normal certification process, which is highly suspect.

Absolutely correct.

STeve

It seems most of the world is mis-informed about what type of protection
workers comp insurance provides a "customer."

Workers Comp provides protection to the "EMPLOYER." An employee cannot sue
an amployer for work related injury, thats where workers comp comes in. An
injured worker CAN sue the premises he was injured on. So you hire a rigger,
his employee falls down the stairs in your building, the employee can sue
you.

So if you get a workers comp certificate from a contractor, its nice, but it
doesn't protect you a bit.

Tony
"rigger" wrote in message
oups.com...
I posted this to another thread and thought it might be helpful to
others as well.

Martin said:

When you get a rigger - make sure they know what they are expected to do
BEFORE agreeing.
You might have the wrong type of rigger. You want them to come with
the correct equipment.

And I said:

The MOST important thing to remember when checking out a company doing
rigging is : GET A COPY OF THEIR CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE.


With the proper insurance you'll usually find they're a legitimate
company; no legitimate company will subject you, or themselfs, to the
risk of NOT having insurance.


They should be able to show you proof of: 1. Liability insurance
including medical liability. 2. Property damage insurance covering
machinery. 3. Workers Compensation insurance.


The value of the first two are self evident, the last even more
serious. If a worker were to be injured and the employer not have
insurance you may find yourself (and maybe your insurance company)
holding the bag. This could amount to a VERY large amount of money the
way the courts are handing it out these days. Your liability will vary
from state to state.


Ask for, and receive, a current certificate of insurance BEFORE giving
out the job.


I used to tell my customers the main difference between riggers moving
machinery and a company, or individual, moving machinery was insurance.

I still stand behind that statement.


dennis
in nca

"Tony" wrote in message
...
It seems most of the world is mis-informed about what type of protection
workers comp insurance provides a "customer."

Workers Comp provides protection to the "EMPLOYER." An employee cannot
sue
an amployer for work related injury, thats where workers comp comes in. An
injured worker CAN sue the premises he was injured on. So you hire a
rigger,
his employee falls down the stairs in your building, the employee can sue
you.

So if you get a workers comp certificate from a contractor, its nice, but
it
doesn't protect you a bit.

Tony

My understanding is that the worker always has that option of suing the
property owner. But doesn't it stand to reason that the worker will be more
likely to sue if he has no coverage at all? He would almost be forced to sue
to cover his medical costs alone.

"Tony" wrote in message
...
It seems most of the world is mis-informed about what type of protection
workers comp insurance provides a "customer."

Workers Comp provides protection to the "EMPLOYER." An employee cannot
sue
an amployer for work related injury, thats where workers comp comes in. An
injured worker CAN sue the premises he was injured on. So you hire a
rigger,
his employee falls down the stairs in your building, the employee can sue
you.

So if you get a workers comp certificate from a contractor, its nice, but
it
doesn't protect you a bit.


Pretty broad statement, and one size does NOT fit all. States and
jurisdictions vary GREATLY.

BTW, where did you get your law degree from?

Steve

A piece of paper is a piece of paper. I know some sheep think an original
piece of paper is equivalent to the word of god, but sorry it is just a
piece of paper, no different than what you use to wipe your rear.

My favorite rigger has his insurance certificate on his web page. It shows
the insurer's name, address and phone number and it shows his policy number.
I can get the insurer's real phone number from their own web page or from
the phone book, call them up, give them the policy number, and then quiz
them to my satisfication.

My favorite rigger charges an arm and leg. But if I want the job done right
and safe, I go to them.

Sheep and their paper.

Alright, that touched a soft spot. This wasn't directed at anyone in
particular, but rather a certain type of person that I loathe but am forced
to work with.

"AL" wrote in message
...
A piece of paper is a piece of paper. I know some sheep think an original
piece of paper is equivalent to the word of god, but sorry it is just a
piece of paper, no different than what you use to wipe your rear.

My favorite rigger has his insurance certificate on his web page. It
shows the insurer's name, address and phone number and it shows his policy
number. I can get the insurer's real phone number from their own web page
or from the phone book, call them up, give them the policy number, and
then quiz them to my satisfication.

My favorite rigger charges an arm and leg. But if I want the job done
right and safe, I go to them.

Sheep and their paper.

"AL" wrote in message
...
A piece of paper is a piece of paper. I know some sheep think an original
piece of paper is equivalent to the word of god, but sorry it is just a
piece of paper, no different than what you use to wipe your rear.

My favorite rigger has his insurance certificate on his web page. It
shows the insurer's name, address and phone number and it shows his policy
number. I can get the insurer's real phone number from their own web page
or from the phone book, call them up, give them the policy number, and
then quiz them to my satisfication.

My favorite rigger charges an arm and leg. But if I want the job done
right and safe, I go to them.

Sheep and their paper.


Whatever winds your clock. Sheep or whatever.

Iggy said:

dgrup said:
3. Workers Compensation insurance.
The value of the first two are self evident, the last even more
serious. If a worker were to be injured and the employer not have
insurance you may find yourself (and maybe your insurance company)
holding the bag. This could amount to a VERY large amount of money the

way the courts are handing it out these days. Your liability will vary

from state to state.


That's a pretty good answer. I will be sure to remember this if I need
to hire a rigger. Thank you.

Just thought to mention: The same thing holds true for ANY contractor
you invite into your home or business (at least in California).
Without
the umbrella of a Workers Compensation insurance policy you could be
in deep do-do should someone be hurt.

dennis
in nca

Marge Schott has million dollar riggers on her baseball team!

"Tony" wrote in message
...
Marge Schott has million dollar riggers on her baseball team!



The Minnesota Vikings have rigger parties on boats.