so, after wanting a milling machine for a few years, I broke down and bought
one - this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7556615290
to be specific. I've mailed $$ to the manufacturer in Sweeden who will send
me the manual (cheap, 55 euros), so now while I'm waiting for delivery, I'm
turning my attention to the next problem - how to power it.

You will notice that it says it's 440V - I don't know if the motors, etc are
dual voltage or not, but my garage doesn't have 440 in it. Of course I can
use a transformer and a bunch of VFDs or a rotary phase converter, or ....
but I wonder what the group experience might be. I can also rewind the
motor for 220 and use an off the shelf VFD, or I can modify a 440V VFD so it
accepts a DC input and then make a DC power supply (e.g. full wave doubler)
to supply it from the 220, or .......

so, what do you think?

--
Bill www.wbnoble.com

william_b_noble wrote:
so, after wanting a milling machine for a few years, I broke down and bought
one - this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7556615290
to be specific. I've mailed $$ to the manufacturer in Sweeden who will send
me the manual (cheap, 55 euros), so now while I'm waiting for delivery, I'm
turning my attention to the next problem - how to power it.

You will notice that it says it's 440V - I don't know if the motors, etc are
dual voltage or not, but my garage doesn't have 440 in it. Of course I can
use a transformer and a bunch of VFDs or a rotary phase converter, or ....
but I wonder what the group experience might be. I can also rewind the
motor for 220 and use an off the shelf VFD, or I can modify a 440V VFD so it
accepts a DC input and then make a DC power supply (e.g. full wave doubler)
to supply it from the 220, or .......
You'll never get away with this. The doubler will make all your lights
and other electrical gear go crazy, and may even cause the transformer
on the pole to pop its breaker. This is a 5 Hp motor! The transformer
scheme is a LOT better idea. Step down transformers are quite easy to
come by. It may only have 2 motors - one for the spindle and one
for the power feed. The power feed motors might also be small
split-phase capacitor-run motors, ie. single phase, and maybe even
running off a small 440 - 220 transformer. It depends on whether the
power feeds are mechanically clutched or electrical.

Rewinding the motor(s) is going to be more expensive, unless you have a
friend in the motor business. The standard power in Europe, I believe,
is 415 V. So, if this machine is 440 V, it may indeed have dual-voltage
motors, special for the US market.

Jon

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:39:01 +0000, "william_b_noble"
wrote:

so, after wanting a milling machine for a few years, I broke down and bought
one - this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7556615290
to be specific. I've mailed $$ to the manufacturer in Sweeden who will send
me the manual (cheap, 55 euros), so now while I'm waiting for delivery, I'm
turning my attention to the next problem - how to power it.

You will notice that it says it's 440V - I don't know if the motors, etc are
dual voltage or not, but my garage doesn't have 440 in it. Of course I can
use a transformer and a bunch of VFDs or a rotary phase converter, or ....
but I wonder what the group experience might be. I can also rewind the
motor for 220 and use an off the shelf VFD, or I can modify a 440V VFD so it
accepts a DC input and then make a DC power supply (e.g. full wave doubler)
to supply it from the 220, or .......

so, what do you think?

It'll be dual voltage. I had to change the Abene I have over from
440 to 220 when my former employer bought it. The only problem is that
it's not exactly user friendly to change over. I had the manuals for
the machine but the wiring didn't match the manual completely (and not
everything is covered in the manual). I ended up having to trace the
wires around the machine for a while before I completely understood
it.

There will be two motors that need the wiring changed (the main
motor for the mill head, and the feed motor inside the column). Then
you'll need to change the control transformer for the contactors. You
might also have to change the coolant pump but I'm not sure there
because mine had a replacement pump when we got it.

The wiring for the main motor is behind the round cover on the back
of the milling arm (took me a while to find that one). The rest is
inside the box on the side of the column.

BTW congratulations on the mill. I think you'll like it. I was
pretty tempted by that one myself. In some ways it's in better shape
than mine is.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

william_b_noble wrote:
so, after wanting a milling machine for a few years, I broke down and bought
one - this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7556615290
to be specific. I've mailed $$ to the manufacturer in Sweeden who will send
me the manual (cheap, 55 euros), so now while I'm waiting for delivery, I'm
turning my attention to the next problem - how to power it.

You will notice that it says it's 440V - I don't know if the motors, etc are
dual voltage or not, but my garage doesn't have 440 in it. Of course I can
use a transformer and a bunch of VFDs or a rotary phase converter, or ....
but I wonder what the group experience might be. I can also rewind the
motor for 220 and use an off the shelf VFD, or I can modify a 440V VFD so it
accepts a DC input and then make a DC power supply (e.g. full wave doubler)
to supply it from the 220, or .......

so, what do you think?

I've tried both. I found that connecting a 3ph transformer to a RPC
caused the transformer to heat up quickly. I actually burned one out.
I imagine that part of the problem was the fact that the RPC was't
balanced with caps as well as it should have been.

I have had more luck with using a single phase transformer to boost the
voltage up the voltage needed by the VFD and feeding a VFD designed for
3ph input with single phase (but at approximately the right voltage).
This is simply a matter of connecting the two single phase conductors to
two of the three line in terminals on the VFD. The VFD should be
derated, but in a milling application I don't see it being terribly
important as the starting load is low and the machine if used by a
hobbiest is gernerally not pushed too hard.

Since large single phase transformers are hard to come by, I am
experimenting with using 3ph transformers to boost the single phase
input. In a week or so I will get a used VFD I bought on ebay hooked up
to such a transformer so that I can try it out and let you know how it goes.

stan

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:36:33 -0500, stanley baer
wrote:

william_b_noble wrote:
so, after wanting a milling machine for a few years, I broke down and bought
one - this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7556615290
to be specific. I've mailed $$ to the manufacturer in Sweeden who will send
me the manual (cheap, 55 euros), so now while I'm waiting for delivery, I'm
turning my attention to the next problem - how to power it.

You will notice that it says it's 440V - I don't know if the motors, etc are
dual voltage or not, but my garage doesn't have 440 in it. Of course I can
use a transformer and a bunch of VFDs or a rotary phase converter, or ....
but I wonder what the group experience might be. I can also rewind the
motor for 220 and use an off the shelf VFD, or I can modify a 440V VFD so it
accepts a DC input and then make a DC power supply (e.g. full wave doubler)
to supply it from the 220, or .......

so, what do you think?

I've tried both. I found that connecting a 3ph transformer to a RPC
caused the transformer to heat up quickly. I actually burned one out.
I imagine that part of the problem was the fact that the RPC was't
balanced with caps as well as it should have been.

I have had more luck with using a single phase transformer to boost the
voltage up the voltage needed by the VFD and feeding a VFD designed for
3ph input with single phase (but at approximately the right voltage).
This is simply a matter of connecting the two single phase conductors to
two of the three line in terminals on the VFD. The VFD should be
derated, but in a milling application I don't see it being terribly
important as the starting load is low and the machine if used by a
hobbiest is gernerally not pushed too hard.

Since large single phase transformers are hard to come by, I am
experimenting with using 3ph transformers to boost the single phase
input. In a week or so I will get a used VFD I bought on ebay hooked up
to such a transformer so that I can try it out and let you know how it goes.

Not a good idea on his mill since there's two motors in it and one
of them can be turned on and off while the spindle motor is turning.
In fact the feed motor is reversed when rapid traverse is engaged.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:04:07 -0600, Wayne Cook
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:36:33 -0500, stanley baer
wrote:

william_b_noble wrote:
so, after wanting a milling machine for a few years, I broke down and bought
one - this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7556615290
to be specific. I've mailed $$ to the manufacturer in Sweeden who will send
me the manual (cheap, 55 euros), so now while I'm waiting for delivery, I'm
turning my attention to the next problem - how to power it.
SNIP------------

Since large single phase transformers are hard to come by, I am
experimenting with using 3ph transformers to boost the single phase
input. In a week or so I will get a used VFD I bought on ebay hooked up
to such a transformer so that I can try it out and let you know how it goes.

Not a good idea on his mill since there's two motors in it and one
of them can be turned on and off while the spindle motor is turning.
In fact the feed motor is reversed when rapid traverse is engaged.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

Thanks Wayne - good input - I am currently under the impression that
there are 3 motors (spindle, traverse, and coolant), and I probably
won't use coolant. On my lathe, I used a VFD and just removed ALL the
pre-existing wiring and contactors, etc and let the VFD to the
start/stop/reverse work - that worked out nicely. I don't really
trust rotary converters because of the need to balance them
electrically, and furthermore they take up space (which is something I
don't have), so a solid state approach is much more attractive. I've
thought of driving a 3 phase transformer with a primitive VFD (well, a
solid state single to three phase converter), but I don't know what
the reflected transformer loads would be back on the device. So, if I
can convert to 220V, that will be quite helpful. It still leaves the
trick of deciding whether to rewire and exploit the new solid state
controls or not.

by the way, Rolf at Abene says that the machine was made in 1970. I'm
a bit farther away from it than you, since I'm on the left coast - I
expect it to show up any week now, as I frantically move stuff around
to try and ensure I have a place to put it.

experimenting with new news readers (outlook express has bogged down
and takes forever to get messages, Free Agent seems fast, but I don't
like the buttons) - anyway, messed up my identity, so this messge
below really did come from me.
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

Thanks Wayne - good input - I am currently under the impression that
there are 3 motors (spindle, traverse, and coolant), and I probably
won't use coolant. On my lathe, I used a VFD and just removed ALL the
pre-existing wiring and contactors, etc and let the VFD to the
start/stop/reverse work - that worked out nicely. I don't really
trust rotary converters because of the need to balance them
electrically, and furthermore they take up space (which is something I
don't have), so a solid state approach is much more attractive. I've
thought of driving a 3 phase transformer with a primitive VFD (well, a
solid state single to three phase converter), but I don't know what
the reflected transformer loads would be back on the device. So, if I
can convert to 220V, that will be quite helpful. It still leaves the
trick of deciding whether to rewire and exploit the new solid state
controls or not.

by the way, Rolf at Abene says that the machine was made in 1970. I'm
a bit farther away from it than you, since I'm on the left coast - I
expect it to show up any week now, as I frantically move stuff around
to try and ensure I have a place to put it.

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 04:30:53 +0000, don't use this address to reach me
wrote:


Thanks Wayne - good input - I am currently under the impression that
there are 3 motors (spindle, traverse, and coolant), and I probably
won't use coolant. On my lathe, I used a VFD and just removed ALL the
pre-existing wiring and contactors, etc and let the VFD to the
start/stop/reverse work - that worked out nicely. I don't really
trust rotary converters because of the need to balance them
electrically, and furthermore they take up space (which is something I
don't have), so a solid state approach is much more attractive. I've
thought of driving a 3 phase transformer with a primitive VFD (well, a
solid state single to three phase converter), but I don't know what
the reflected transformer loads would be back on the device. So, if I
can convert to 220V, that will be quite helpful. It still leaves the
trick of deciding whether to rewire and exploit the new solid state
controls or not.

Hmm. Well first off you'll need to check the coolant pump. It may or
may not be 3 phase. I can't imagine not using coolant of some form on
a milling machine. I've never used it on a lathe but it's pretty much
essential in milling from my experience.

The way I see it you may end up needing two VFD's to make this thing
run properly. At least you will if you want to even think about using
the rapid traverse feature (and I'm not to sure about how well that'll
work off a VFD since it uses the sudden reversing of the motor to
shift into rapids). I suppose you could leave the feed motor on at all
times (there's really no reason to turn it off, mine has not been
turned off on purpose ever). However that will add up to a pretty good
sized load for a VFD. I don't remember what HP the feed motor is but
the main spindle motor is big enough that you'll want a 5HP VFD and
higher HP VFD's which will take single phase input are harder to find.

Another point is the fact that the main motor is a special built
motor and would not be easy to replace. On the other hand the feed
motor is pretty much a normal motor and could be replaced if needed.

by the way, Rolf at Abene says that the machine was made in 1970. I'm
a bit farther away from it than you, since I'm on the left coast - I
expect it to show up any week now, as I frantically move stuff around
to try and ensure I have a place to put it.

Interesting. I wonder when mine was made. There's enough differences
between the two in minor details which makes me believe that mine
might be slightly newer than yours.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

Stan, the reason your transformer burned up when you had a VFD in front of
it is the transformer is made for relatively clean sinusoidal power. The
VFDs put out very "dirty" (sometimes actually square wave) power. The
harmonics created by this dirty power cause losses within the transformer
that it is not designed to take. You should always use a VFD after your
final transformer, and not before, if you're going to use one.
Mr. Noble, if you're intending to stay with the original motor, I would
recommend a 220 VAC 3 phase slave motor of 15 HP driving a 3 phase
transformer stepping the 220 VAC up to 440 VAC. Then, if you still want a
variable speed drive, put it on the 440 side. The 15 HP motor will need to
be started/run by a static phase converter. There's a lot of info on this
out on the net, and if you need more information, I can find some good
people in Indianapolis who can help further. Good luck with your new
machine.
"stanley baer" wrote in message
...
william_b_noble wrote:
so, after wanting a milling machine for a few years, I broke down and
bought one - this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7556615290
to be specific. I've mailed $$ to the manufacturer in Sweeden who will
send me the manual (cheap, 55 euros), so now while I'm waiting for
delivery, I'm turning my attention to the next problem - how to power it.

You will notice that it says it's 440V - I don't know if the motors, etc
are dual voltage or not, but my garage doesn't have 440 in it. Of course
I can use a transformer and a bunch of VFDs or a rotary phase converter,
or .... but I wonder what the group experience might be. I can also
rewind the motor for 220 and use an off the shelf VFD, or I can modify a
440V VFD so it accepts a DC input and then make a DC power supply (e.g.
full wave doubler) to supply it from the 220, or .......

so, what do you think?

I've tried both. I found that connecting a 3ph transformer to a RPC
caused the transformer to heat up quickly. I actually burned one out. I
imagine that part of the problem was the fact that the RPC was't balanced
with caps as well as it should have been.

I have had more luck with using a single phase transformer to boost the
voltage up the voltage needed by the VFD and feeding a VFD designed for
3ph input with single phase (but at approximately the right voltage). This
is simply a matter of connecting the two single phase conductors to two of
the three line in terminals on the VFD. The VFD should be derated, but in
a milling application I don't see it being terribly important as the
starting load is low and the machine if used by a hobbiest is gernerally
not pushed too hard.

Since large single phase transformers are hard to come by, I am
experimenting with using 3ph transformers to boost the single phase input.
In a week or so I will get a used VFD I bought on ebay hooked up to such a
transformer so that I can try it out and let you know how it goes.

stan

thanks guys - sounds like there is no brilliant secret, although I'm
still not convinced that there isn't some way that doesn't involve
moving parts to geerate 440AC 3 phase from 220 single phase - but I'm
going to wait until I get the machine and then see what it really has
in it - if I can get it to run on 220, then VFDs are the obvious
answer - small ones are cheap, and for this application I don't need
the fancy vector drives. I wonder if a 220/440 motor can be both a
transformer and a phase converter at the same time - there's something
to think about


On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:03:42 -0500, "Jim Reed"
wrote:

Stan, the reason your transformer burned up when you had a VFD in front of
it is the transformer is made for relatively clean sinusoidal power. The
VFDs put out very "dirty" (sometimes actually square wave) power. The
harmonics created by this dirty power cause losses within the transformer
that it is not designed to take. You should always use a VFD after your
final transformer, and not before, if you're going to use one.
Mr. Noble, if you're intending to stay with the original motor, I would
recommend a 220 VAC 3 phase slave motor of 15 HP driving a 3 phase
transformer stepping the 220 VAC up to 440 VAC. Then, if you still want a
variable speed drive, put it on the 440 side. The 15 HP motor will need to
be started/run by a static phase converter. There's a lot of info on this
out on the net, and if you need more information, I can find some good
people in Indianapolis who can help further. Good luck with your new
machine.
"stanley baer" wrote in message
...
william_b_noble wrote:

You could use a 220/440 rotary converter as a transformer, but it is REAL
inefficient. The 220/440 motors use the windings in a series or parallel
configuration to make the voltage/current change so none of the wires have
to be large enough to carry a current twice as large as the HP rating
requires. This means you would have to have a idler motor rated twice of
what you normally need to power the same load - i.e. 7.5 HP idler for a 5 HP
load becomes a 15 HP idler for the same load. Starting becomes tricky (now
a 20X current inrush or greater rather than a 10X inrush), and the starting
cap requirements grow exponentially (expensive). There are a couple of
other concerns with this technique, but I think you get the idea. It's not
the easiest, cheapest, or quickest technique.
I don't know of any motors which are specifically made as rotary converters
and step up converters at the same time, but if they were available you
would probably want to consider that as a way to go.

"William B Noble (don't reply to this address)" wrote
in message ...
thanks guys - sounds like there is no brilliant secret, although I'm
still not convinced that there isn't some way that doesn't involve
moving parts to geerate 440AC 3 phase from 220 single phase - but I'm
going to wait until I get the machine and then see what it really has
in it - if I can get it to run on 220, then VFDs are the obvious
answer - small ones are cheap, and for this application I don't need
the fancy vector drives. I wonder if a 220/440 motor can be both a
transformer and a phase converter at the same time - there's something
to think about


On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:03:42 -0500, "Jim Reed"
wrote:

Stan, the reason your transformer burned up when you had a VFD in front of
it is the transformer is made for relatively clean sinusoidal power. The
VFDs put out very "dirty" (sometimes actually square wave) power. The
harmonics created by this dirty power cause losses within the transformer
that it is not designed to take. You should always use a VFD after your
final transformer, and not before, if you're going to use one.
Mr. Noble, if you're intending to stay with the original motor, I would
recommend a 220 VAC 3 phase slave motor of 15 HP driving a 3 phase
transformer stepping the 220 VAC up to 440 VAC. Then, if you still want a
variable speed drive, put it on the 440 side. The 15 HP motor will need
to
be started/run by a static phase converter. There's a lot of info on this
out on the net, and if you need more information, I can find some good
people in Indianapolis who can help further. Good luck with your new
machine.
"stanley baer" wrote in message
...
william_b_noble wrote:

I have the manual now, ordered it from Abene in Sweeden - they were very
helpful, and it only cost 55 euros.

According to the schematic, all 3 motors are 3 phase, but there is no hint
of any kind whether they are single voltage or multiple voltage motors -
once the mill arrives, I'll be able to figure out the answer. Low power
VFDs are really cheap, so I'm not worried about the small motors if they can
run on 220, it's just making the spindle motor run that may be a bit of a
challenge if it requires only 440. we shall see. The "good news" in the
schematic is that it shows the control transformer with taps for 220, 440,
and 550 - so at least the controls will work on 220.....




"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 04:30:53 +0000, don't use this address to reach me
wrote:


Hmm. Well first off you'll need to check the coolant pump. It may or
may not be 3 phase. I can't imagine not using coolant of some form on
a milling machine. I've never used it on a lathe but it's pretty much
essential in milling from my experience.

The way I see it you may end up needing two VFD's to make this thing
run properly. At least you will if you want to even think about using
the rapid traverse feature (and I'm not to sure about how well that'll
work off a VFD since it uses the sudden reversing of the motor to
shift into rapids). I suppose you could leave the feed motor on at all
times (there's really no reason to turn it off, mine has not been
turned off on purpose ever). However that will add up to a pretty good
sized load for a VFD. I don't remember what HP the feed motor is but
the main spindle motor is big enough that you'll want a 5HP VFD and
higher HP VFD's which will take single phase input are harder to find.

Another point is the fact that the main motor is a special built
motor and would not be easy to replace. On the other hand the feed
motor is pretty much a normal motor and could be replaced if needed.

by the way, Rolf at Abene says that the machine was made in 1970. I'm
a bit farther away from it than you, since I'm on the left coast - I
expect it to show up any week now, as I frantically move stuff around
to try and ensure I have a place to put it.

Interesting. I wonder when mine was made. There's enough differences
between the two in minor details which makes me believe that mine
might be slightly newer than yours.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:30:45 +0000, "william_b_noble"
wrote:

I have the manual now, ordered it from Abene in Sweeden - they were very
helpful, and it only cost 55 euros.

According to the schematic, all 3 motors are 3 phase, but there is no hint
of any kind whether they are single voltage or multiple voltage motors -
once the mill arrives, I'll be able to figure out the answer. Low power
VFDs are really cheap, so I'm not worried about the small motors if they can
run on 220, it's just making the spindle motor run that may be a bit of a
challenge if it requires only 440. we shall see. The "good news" in the
schematic is that it shows the control transformer with taps for 220, 440,
and 550 - so at least the controls will work on 220.....


As I said before there schematic is less than helpful in the voltage
change issue.

First off there's a round plate on the rear of the milling arm (near
the crank for moving the arm if it's in the down position). Take this
plate off and you'll find the wires for the main motor. I'll probably
have to go out and take my plate off in order to tell you how to
change them (it's been 6-7 years since I changed mine over).

The feed motor is both easier and harder. It's easier because it
says on the motor how to wire it up. It's harder because it's buried
up inside the main column and is nearly impossible to get to.

The coolant pump is easy to get to on the back and will probably
state on it's plate if it's a dual voltage motor (likely) and may well
state what is needed to change it on the tag.

(please excuse any typos, my keyboard is getting cranky, looks like
I'm going to have to replace it after only 3 months use).

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

this Abene mill finally arrived - a long story. The good news is that
it's wired for 220, so I won't need to worry about a transformer or
other means to convert to 440 - everything seems to be dual voltage.
My plan, unless someone here has a much better idea is to use two
VFDs, one for the spindle motor, one for the ways motor, and to use a
suitably sized capacitor for the coolant pump - a little motor that
doesn't seem worth a VFD of its own. I like the VFD approach because
of the soft start. If anyone has a better suggestion, chime in.... I
don't really want to use a rotary converter because of space
considerations


On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:39:01 +0000, "william_b_noble"
wrote:

so, after wanting a milling machine for a few years, I broke down and bought
one - this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7556615290
to be specific. I've mailed $$ to the manufacturer in Sweeden who will send
me the manual (cheap, 55 euros), so now while I'm waiting for delivery, I'm
turning my attention to the next problem - how to power it.

You will notice that it says it's 440V - I don't know if the motors, etc are
dual voltage or not, but my garage doesn't have 440 in it. Of course I can
use a transformer and a bunch of VFDs or a rotary phase converter, or ....
but I wonder what the group experience might be. I can also rewind the
motor for 220 and use an off the shelf VFD, or I can modify a 440V VFD so it
accepts a DC input and then make a DC power supply (e.g. full wave doubler)
to supply it from the 220, or .......

so, what do you think?
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:11:20 +0000, "William B Noble (don't reply to
this address)" wrote:

this Abene mill finally arrived - a long story. The good news is that
it's wired for 220, so I won't need to worry about a transformer or
other means to convert to 440 - everything seems to be dual voltage.
My plan, unless someone here has a much better idea is to use two
VFDs, one for the spindle motor, one for the ways motor, and to use a
suitably sized capacitor for the coolant pump - a little motor that
doesn't seem worth a VFD of its own. I like the VFD approach because
of the soft start. If anyone has a better suggestion, chime in.... I
don't really want to use a rotary converter because of space
considerations

The only possible problem could be the feed motor. To engage rapid
traverse the feed motor is reversed quickly (as in instantly). The VFD
might not change it quick enough to make the rapids engage (you'll
have to try it to see). I know that my mill is rather difficult to get
the rapids to engage when it's cold with the instant reverse and it
may take several tries before it does engage.


Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

some more follow up info - the pump on this mill is .15 amps at 220 -
no need for fancy circuitry there, though we shall see - the motor
that moves the ways is 5.9 amps, (2 hp) the spindle motor is 6 hp,
so, any thoughts?



On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:11:20 +0000, "William B Noble (don't reply to
this address)" wrote:

this Abene mill finally arrived - a long story. The good news is that
it's wired for 220, so I won't need to worry about a transformer or
other means to convert to 440 - everything seems to be dual voltage.
My plan, unless someone here has a much better idea is to use two
VFDs, one for the spindle motor, one for the ways motor, and to use a
suitably sized capacitor for the coolant pump - a little motor that
doesn't seem worth a VFD of its own. I like the VFD approach because
of the soft start. If anyone has a better suggestion, chime in.... I
don't really want to use a rotary converter because of space
considerations


On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:39:01 +0000, "william_b_noble"
wrote:

so, after wanting a milling machine for a few years, I broke down and bought
one - this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7556615290
to be specific. I've mailed $$ to the manufacturer in Sweeden who will send
me the manual (cheap, 55 euros), so now while I'm waiting for delivery, I'm
turning my attention to the next problem - how to power it.

You will notice that it says it's 440V - I don't know if the motors, etc are
dual voltage or not, but my garage doesn't have 440 in it. Of course I can
use a transformer and a bunch of VFDs or a rotary phase converter, or ....
but I wonder what the group experience might be. I can also rewind the
motor for 220 and use an off the shelf VFD, or I can modify a 440V VFD so it
accepts a DC input and then make a DC power supply (e.g. full wave doubler)
to supply it from the 220, or .......

so, what do you think?
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

I've now got this unit running using a simple (two relays and a
capacitor) static inverter - you were half right - the feed motor
reverses to actuate the rapid feed - it doesn't have to do it quickly,
though it's convenient if it does - I have no trouble with it changing
direction instantly, though I'm not sure I uderstand why it works. I
built the static converter using some scrap parts I had lying around
(two 250 UF starting caps, a small starting relay and a 110AC single
pole relay)

now to find all the oil ports and fill it with oil.


On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:18:49 -0600, Wayne Cook
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:11:20 +0000, "William B Noble (don't reply to
this address)" wrote:

this Abene mill finally arrived - a long story. The good news is that
it's wired for 220, so I won't need to worry about a transformer or
other means to convert to 440 - everything seems to be dual voltage.
My plan, unless someone here has a much better idea is to use two
VFDs, one for the spindle motor, one for the ways motor, and to use a
suitably sized capacitor for the coolant pump - a little motor that
doesn't seem worth a VFD of its own. I like the VFD approach because
of the soft start. If anyone has a better suggestion, chime in.... I
don't really want to use a rotary converter because of space
considerations

The only possible problem could be the feed motor. To engage rapid
traverse the feed motor is reversed quickly (as in instantly). The VFD
might not change it quick enough to make the rapids engage (you'll
have to try it to see). I know that my mill is rather difficult to get
the rapids to engage when it's cold with the instant reverse and it
may take several tries before it does engage.


Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com