Al Franken, Hillary, Kennedy, Caught!

Jim Meyers
Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2005

A new book by a top investigative journalist exposes the blatant
hypocrisy of liberals who loudly espouse principles they disregard in
their own personal lives.

In "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy," Hoover
Fellow Peter Schweizer reveals the glaring contradictions between the
public stances and real-life behavior of prominent liberals including
Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi
and Ralph Nader – among others.

"Hypocrisy has proved to be a wonderful weapon for liberals in their
war against conservatives," Schweizer writes in the November issue of
NewsMax Magazine.

"Yet for all the talk about conservative hypocrisy, there has been
very little investigation into the prevalence of hypocrisy on the
left."

After two years of research into liberal hypocrisy, Schweizer said,
"what I discovered was just stunning."


Schweizer's well-annotated book, published by Doubleday, has just been
released and its sure to turn several well-known liberals red with
anger.

Among the eye-opening revelations of "Do As I Say":

# Filmmaker Michael Moore insists that corporations are evil and
claims he doesn't invest in the stock market due to moral principle.
But Moore's IRS forms, viewed by Schweizer, show that over the past
five years he has owned shares in such corporate giants as
Halliburton, Merck, Pfizer, Sunoco, Tenet Healthcare, Ford, General
Electric and McDonald's.

# Staunch union supporter Rep. Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) has received the
Cesar Chavez Award from the United Farmworkers Union. But the $25
million Northern California vineyard she and her husband own is a
non-union shop.

The hypocrisy doesn't end there. Pelosi has received more money from
the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees union than any other
member of Congress in recent election cycles.

But the Pelosis own a large stake in an exclusive hotel in Rutherford,
Calif. It has more than 250 employees. But none of them are in a
union, according to Schweizer, author of "The Bushes: Portrait of a
Dynasty" and a regular contributor to the New York Times, Wall Street
Journal and other periodicals.

The Pelosis are also partners in a restaurant chain called Piatti,
which has 900 employees. The chain is – that's right, a non-union
shop.

# Ralph Nader is another liberal who claims that unions are essential
to protect worker rights. But when an editor of one of his
publications tried to form a union to ameliorate miserable working
conditions, the editor was fired and the locks changed on the office
door.

# Self-described socialist Noam Chomsky has described the Pentagon as
"the most vile institution on the face of the earth" and lashed out
against tax havens and trusts that benefit only the rich.

But Chomsky has been paid millions of dollars by the Pentagon over the
last 40 years, and he used a venerable law firm to set up his
irrevocable trust to shield his assets from the IRS.

# Air America radio host Al Franken says conservatives are racist
because they lack diversity and oppose affirmative action. But fewer
than 1 percent of the people he has hired over the past 15 years have
been African-American.

# Ted Kennedy has fought for the estate tax and spoken out against tax
shelters. But he has repeatedly benefited from an intricate web of
trusts and private foundations that have shielded most of his family's
fortune from the IRS.

One Kennedy family trust wasn't even set up in the U.S., but in Fiji.

Another family member, environmentalist Robert Kennedy Jr., has said
that it is not moral to profit from natural resources. But he receives
an annual check from the family's large holdings in the oil industry.

# Barbra Streisand has talked about the necessity of unions to protect
a "living wage." But she prefers to do her filming and postproduction
work in Canada, where she can pay less than American union wages.

# Bill and Hillary Clinton have spoken in favor of the estate tax, and
in 2000 Bill vetoed a bill seeking to end it. But the Clintons have
set up a contract trust that allows them to substantially reduce the
amount of inheritance tax their estate will pay when they die.

Hillary, for her part, has written and spoken extensively about the
right of children to make major decisions regarding their own lives.

But she barred 13-year-old daughter Chelsea from getting her ears
pierced and forbid the teen from watching MTV or HBO.

# Billionaire Bush-basher George Soros says the wealthy should pay
higher, more progressive tax rates. But he holds the bulk of his money
in tax-free overseas accounts in Curacao, Bermuda and the Cayman
Islands.

Schweizer writes: "Liberals claim to support affirmative action but
don't practice it. They support higher taxes but set up complicated
tax shelters to avoid paying them. They claim to be ardent
environmentalists but abandon their cause when it impinges on their
own property rights.

"The reality is that liberals like to preach in moral platitudes. They
like to condemn ordinary Americans and Republicans for a whole host of
things - racism, lack of concern for the poor, polluting the
environment, and greed.

"But when it comes to applying those same standards to themselves,
liberals are found to be shockingly guilty of hypocrisy.

"The media and the American people need to hold them accountable."





"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Oh, my! The liberals aren't perfect??!!! Thanks for the news flash.

Is this permission for the conservatives to continue their hypocrisy?
"Hey they're doin it too, we don't have to stop!"

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Al Franken, Hillary, Kennedy, Caught!

Jim Meyers
Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2005

A new book by a top investigative journalist exposes the blatant
hypocrisy of liberals who loudly espouse principles they disregard in
their own personal lives.

In "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy," Hoover
Fellow Peter Schweizer reveals the glaring contradictions between the
public stances and real-life behavior of prominent liberals including
Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi
and Ralph Nader - among others.

"Hypocrisy has proved to be a wonderful weapon for liberals in their
war against conservatives," Schweizer writes in the November issue of
NewsMax Magazine.

"Yet for all the talk about conservative hypocrisy, there has been
very little investigation into the prevalence of hypocrisy on the
left."

After two years of research into liberal hypocrisy, Schweizer said,
"what I discovered was just stunning."


Schweizer's well-annotated book, published by Doubleday, has just been
released and its sure to turn several well-known liberals red with
anger.

Among the eye-opening revelations of "Do As I Say":

# Filmmaker Michael Moore insists that corporations are evil and
claims he doesn't invest in the stock market due to moral principle.
But Moore's IRS forms, viewed by Schweizer, show that over the past
five years he has owned shares in such corporate giants as
Halliburton, Merck, Pfizer, Sunoco, Tenet Healthcare, Ford, General
Electric and McDonald's.

# Staunch union supporter Rep. Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) has received the
Cesar Chavez Award from the United Farmworkers Union. But the $25
million Northern California vineyard she and her husband own is a
non-union shop.

The hypocrisy doesn't end there. Pelosi has received more money from
the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees union than any other
member of Congress in recent election cycles.

But the Pelosis own a large stake in an exclusive hotel in Rutherford,
Calif. It has more than 250 employees. But none of them are in a
union, according to Schweizer, author of "The Bushes: Portrait of a
Dynasty" and a regular contributor to the New York Times, Wall Street
Journal and other periodicals.

The Pelosis are also partners in a restaurant chain called Piatti,
which has 900 employees. The chain is - that's right, a non-union
shop.

# Ralph Nader is another liberal who claims that unions are essential
to protect worker rights. But when an editor of one of his
publications tried to form a union to ameliorate miserable working
conditions, the editor was fired and the locks changed on the office
door.

# Self-described socialist Noam Chomsky has described the Pentagon as
"the most vile institution on the face of the earth" and lashed out
against tax havens and trusts that benefit only the rich.

But Chomsky has been paid millions of dollars by the Pentagon over the
last 40 years, and he used a venerable law firm to set up his
irrevocable trust to shield his assets from the IRS.

# Air America radio host Al Franken says conservatives are racist
because they lack diversity and oppose affirmative action. But fewer
than 1 percent of the people he has hired over the past 15 years have
been African-American.

# Ted Kennedy has fought for the estate tax and spoken out against tax
shelters. But he has repeatedly benefited from an intricate web of
trusts and private foundations that have shielded most of his family's
fortune from the IRS.

One Kennedy family trust wasn't even set up in the U.S., but in Fiji.

Another family member, environmentalist Robert Kennedy Jr., has said
that it is not moral to profit from natural resources. But he receives
an annual check from the family's large holdings in the oil industry.

# Barbra Streisand has talked about the necessity of unions to protect
a "living wage." But she prefers to do her filming and postproduction
work in Canada, where she can pay less than American union wages.

# Bill and Hillary Clinton have spoken in favor of the estate tax, and
in 2000 Bill vetoed a bill seeking to end it. But the Clintons have
set up a contract trust that allows them to substantially reduce the
amount of inheritance tax their estate will pay when they die.

Hillary, for her part, has written and spoken extensively about the
right of children to make major decisions regarding their own lives.

But she barred 13-year-old daughter Chelsea from getting her ears
pierced and forbid the teen from watching MTV or HBO.

# Billionaire Bush-basher George Soros says the wealthy should pay
higher, more progressive tax rates. But he holds the bulk of his money
in tax-free overseas accounts in Curacao, Bermuda and the Cayman
Islands.

Schweizer writes: "Liberals claim to support affirmative action but
don't practice it. They support higher taxes but set up complicated
tax shelters to avoid paying them. They claim to be ardent
environmentalists but abandon their cause when it impinges on their
own property rights.

"The reality is that liberals like to preach in moral platitudes. They
like to condemn ordinary Americans and Republicans for a whole host of
things - racism, lack of concern for the poor, polluting the
environment, and greed.

"But when it comes to applying those same standards to themselves,
liberals are found to be shockingly guilty of hypocrisy.

"The media and the American people need to hold them accountable."





"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Eide wrote:
Oh, my! The liberals aren't perfect??!!! Thanks for the news flash.

Is this permission for the conservatives to continue their hypocrisy?
"Hey they're doin it too, we don't have to stop!"

Gads, but you tofu sucking liberals are such weasels.

Strider

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Al Franken, Hillary, Kennedy, Caught!

Jim Meyers
Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2005

A new book by a top investigative journalist exposes the blatant
hypocrisy of liberals who loudly espouse principles they disregard in
their own personal lives.

In "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy," Hoover
Fellow Peter Schweizer reveals the glaring contradictions between the
public stances and real-life behavior of prominent liberals including
Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi
and Ralph Nader - among others.

"Hypocrisy has proved to be a wonderful weapon for liberals in their
war against conservatives," Schweizer writes in the November issue of
NewsMax Magazine.

"Yet for all the talk about conservative hypocrisy, there has been
very little investigation into the prevalence of hypocrisy on the
left."

After two years of research into liberal hypocrisy, Schweizer said,
"what I discovered was just stunning."


Schweizer's well-annotated book, published by Doubleday, has just been
released and its sure to turn several well-known liberals red with
anger.

Among the eye-opening revelations of "Do As I Say":

# Filmmaker Michael Moore insists that corporations are evil and
claims he doesn't invest in the stock market due to moral principle.
But Moore's IRS forms, viewed by Schweizer, show that over the past
five years he has owned shares in such corporate giants as
Halliburton, Merck, Pfizer, Sunoco, Tenet Healthcare, Ford, General
Electric and McDonald's.

# Staunch union supporter Rep. Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) has received the
Cesar Chavez Award from the United Farmworkers Union. But the $25
million Northern California vineyard she and her husband own is a
non-union shop.

The hypocrisy doesn't end there. Pelosi has received more money from
the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees union than any other
member of Congress in recent election cycles.

But the Pelosis own a large stake in an exclusive hotel in Rutherford,
Calif. It has more than 250 employees. But none of them are in a
union, according to Schweizer, author of "The Bushes: Portrait of a
Dynasty" and a regular contributor to the New York Times, Wall Street
Journal and other periodicals.

The Pelosis are also partners in a restaurant chain called Piatti,
which has 900 employees. The chain is - that's right, a non-union
shop.

# Ralph Nader is another liberal who claims that unions are essential
to protect worker rights. But when an editor of one of his
publications tried to form a union to ameliorate miserable working
conditions, the editor was fired and the locks changed on the office
door.

# Self-described socialist Noam Chomsky has described the Pentagon as
"the most vile institution on the face of the earth" and lashed out
against tax havens and trusts that benefit only the rich.

But Chomsky has been paid millions of dollars by the Pentagon over the
last 40 years, and he used a venerable law firm to set up his
irrevocable trust to shield his assets from the IRS.

# Air America radio host Al Franken says conservatives are racist
because they lack diversity and oppose affirmative action. But fewer
than 1 percent of the people he has hired over the past 15 years have
been African-American.

# Ted Kennedy has fought for the estate tax and spoken out against tax
shelters. But he has repeatedly benefited from an intricate web of
trusts and private foundations that have shielded most of his family's
fortune from the IRS.

One Kennedy family trust wasn't even set up in the U.S., but in Fiji.

Another family member, environmentalist Robert Kennedy Jr., has said
that it is not moral to profit from natural resources. But he receives
an annual check from the family's large holdings in the oil industry.

# Barbra Streisand has talked about the necessity of unions to protect
a "living wage." But she prefers to do her filming and postproduction
work in Canada, where she can pay less than American union wages.

# Bill and Hillary Clinton have spoken in favor of the estate tax, and
in 2000 Bill vetoed a bill seeking to end it. But the Clintons have
set up a contract trust that allows them to substantially reduce the
amount of inheritance tax their estate will pay when they die.

Hillary, for her part, has written and spoken extensively about the
right of children to make major decisions regarding their own lives.

But she barred 13-year-old daughter Chelsea from getting her ears
pierced and forbid the teen from watching MTV or HBO.

# Billionaire Bush-basher George Soros says the wealthy should pay
higher, more progressive tax rates. But he holds the bulk of his money
in tax-free overseas accounts in Curacao, Bermuda and the Cayman
Islands.

Schweizer writes: "Liberals claim to support affirmative action but
don't practice it. They support higher taxes but set up complicated
tax shelters to avoid paying them. They claim to be ardent
environmentalists but abandon their cause when it impinges on their
own property rights.

"The reality is that liberals like to preach in moral platitudes. They
like to condemn ordinary Americans and Republicans for a whole host of
things - racism, lack of concern for the poor, polluting the
environment, and greed.

"But when it comes to applying those same standards to themselves,
liberals are found to be shockingly guilty of hypocrisy.

"The media and the American people need to hold them accountable."





"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Eide wrote:
Oh, my! The liberals aren't perfect??!!! Thanks for the news flash.

Far from it.

Is this permission for the conservatives to continue their hypocrisy?
"Hey they're doin it too, we don't have to stop!"

A tu quequo attack does not work if the argument is hypocrisy, does it?
The argument IS that the other guy is doing it as well.

Recently your buddy Al Franekn was (yet again) caught lying about Bill
O'Reily lying. Pretty funny.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

Al Franken, Hillary, Kennedy, Caught!

Jim Meyers
Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2005

A new book by a top investigative journalist exposes the blatant
hypocrisy of liberals who loudly espouse principles they disregard in
their own personal lives.

In "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy," Hoover
Fellow Peter Schweizer reveals the glaring contradictions between the
public stances and real-life behavior of prominent liberals including
Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi
and Ralph Nader - among others.

"Hypocrisy has proved to be a wonderful weapon for liberals in their
war against conservatives," Schweizer writes in the November issue of
NewsMax Magazine.

"Yet for all the talk about conservative hypocrisy, there has been
very little investigation into the prevalence of hypocrisy on the
left."

After two years of research into liberal hypocrisy, Schweizer said,
"what I discovered was just stunning."


Schweizer's well-annotated book, published by Doubleday, has just been
released and its sure to turn several well-known liberals red with
anger.

Among the eye-opening revelations of "Do As I Say":

# Filmmaker Michael Moore insists that corporations are evil and
claims he doesn't invest in the stock market due to moral principle.
But Moore's IRS forms, viewed by Schweizer, show that over the past
five years he has owned shares in such corporate giants as
Halliburton, Merck, Pfizer, Sunoco, Tenet Healthcare, Ford, General
Electric and McDonald's.

# Staunch union supporter Rep. Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) has received the
Cesar Chavez Award from the United Farmworkers Union. But the $25
million Northern California vineyard she and her husband own is a
non-union shop.

The hypocrisy doesn't end there. Pelosi has received more money from
the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees union than any other
member of Congress in recent election cycles.

But the Pelosis own a large stake in an exclusive hotel in Rutherford,
Calif. It has more than 250 employees. But none of them are in a
union, according to Schweizer, author of "The Bushes: Portrait of a
Dynasty" and a regular contributor to the New York Times, Wall Street
Journal and other periodicals.

The Pelosis are also partners in a restaurant chain called Piatti,
which has 900 employees. The chain is - that's right, a non-union
shop.

# Ralph Nader is another liberal who claims that unions are essential
to protect worker rights. But when an editor of one of his
publications tried to form a union to ameliorate miserable working
conditions, the editor was fired and the locks changed on the office
door.

# Self-described socialist Noam Chomsky has described the Pentagon as
"the most vile institution on the face of the earth" and lashed out
against tax havens and trusts that benefit only the rich.

But Chomsky has been paid millions of dollars by the Pentagon over the
last 40 years, and he used a venerable law firm to set up his
irrevocable trust to shield his assets from the IRS.

# Air America radio host Al Franken says conservatives are racist
because they lack diversity and oppose affirmative action. But fewer
than 1 percent of the people he has hired over the past 15 years have
been African-American.

# Ted Kennedy has fought for the estate tax and spoken out against tax
shelters. But he has repeatedly benefited from an intricate web of
trusts and private foundations that have shielded most of his family's
fortune from the IRS.

One Kennedy family trust wasn't even set up in the U.S., but in Fiji.

Another family member, environmentalist Robert Kennedy Jr., has said
that it is not moral to profit from natural resources. But he receives
an annual check from the family's large holdings in the oil industry.

# Barbra Streisand has talked about the necessity of unions to protect
a "living wage." But she prefers to do her filming and postproduction
work in Canada, where she can pay less than American union wages.

# Bill and Hillary Clinton have spoken in favor of the estate tax, and
in 2000 Bill vetoed a bill seeking to end it. But the Clintons have
set up a contract trust that allows them to substantially reduce the
amount of inheritance tax their estate will pay when they die.

Hillary, for her part, has written and spoken extensively about the
right of children to make major decisions regarding their own lives.

But she barred 13-year-old daughter Chelsea from getting her ears
pierced and forbid the teen from watching MTV or HBO.

# Billionaire Bush-basher George Soros says the wealthy should pay
higher, more progressive tax rates. But he holds the bulk of his money
in tax-free overseas accounts in Curacao, Bermuda and the Cayman
Islands.

Schweizer writes: "Liberals claim to support affirmative action but
don't practice it. They support higher taxes but set up complicated
tax shelters to avoid paying them. They claim to be ardent
environmentalists but abandon their cause when it impinges on their
own property rights.

"The reality is that liberals like to preach in moral platitudes. They
like to condemn ordinary Americans and Republicans for a whole host of
things - racism, lack of concern for the poor, polluting the
environment, and greed.

"But when it comes to applying those same standards to themselves,
liberals are found to be shockingly guilty of hypocrisy.

"The media and the American people need to hold them accountable."





"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:27:57 -0800, Stuart Grey
wrote:

Recently your buddy Al Franekn was (yet again) caught lying about Bill
O'Reily lying.

What had Bill O'Reily been lying about THIS time?
--
Cliff

So that's stuff any intelligent person knew over thirty years ago.
Nothing has changed.
Kennedy, with all his craving for justice should have served time over
the Chappaquidic incident.
Bugs

On 2 Nov 2005 05:31:45 -0800, "Bugs" wrote:

snip
Kennedy, with all his craving for justice should have served time over
the Chappaquidic incident.

By his standards, Kennedy did a good deed at Chappaquiddick. He
supports gun control, and drowning people prevents future gun deaths.
Liberals disagree amongst themselves on many issues, but they all
share one core value: "The ends justify the means."

"I hate (expletive) loaded guns and I will blow this building up."
- gun control advocate Johnny Ray Gobin, threatening a Florida
National Guardsman at the Naples Florida airport, 22 February 2002.
source: "Man faces charges in threat at airport", The News-Press
(of Florida), 23 February 2002

--
Emergency preparedness and survival information:
http://www.tincher.to/

In article , Rex Tincher says...

Liberals disagree amongst themselves on many issues, but they all
share one core value: "The ends justify the means."

Sounds like a justification for ollie north's crimes.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Excellent.

Figgers Moore would own stock in McDonalds.

It is occasionally true that the workers in non-union shops are better off
than their union counterparts. Some employers will remunerate employees such
that the employees will *not opt* for unionization, as they are fairing a
bit better w/o the union/union dues.

Whether that's the case w/ Pelosi remains to be seen.
It proly is not. But the possibility exists.

Unions are no panacea. In the immediate picture, an employer who keeps a
union out thru "matching+", if you will, is proly doing everyone involved a
favor.
OTOH, in the bigger/longer picture, mebbe this "union erosion via employer
benevolence" may be unhealthy for the total workforce, as union's need their
own critical mass to be effective, corrupt pita's that they themselves are.
Their spectre, at the very least, is important, as history as fairly-well
shown.

As Bugs pointed out, this stuff is, at least in hindsight, obvious.
But still I think it is a good kick-in-the-pants to have it pointed out.

However, more important than any hypocrisy is what Pelosi is *actually doing
for the unions*, outside of her own immediate interests. It is possible that
she really is a helpful force.
Ditto the other acts of hypocrisy.
There is a big difference between being a hypocrit and a traitor.

What opened my eyes was the tidbit that there are more pharmaceutical
lobbyists on capitol hill than there are legislators. And that's just
pharmacy.
This is in fact treason, the selling out of Us to Them.
Of course, we (us) only voted. They (them) actually paid. (Taxes don't
count.)

How 'bout Hoover, my fav. cross-dressing homophobe.... goodgawd.... Is it
true he did high heels, too??

Which is why I invite everyone to indeed join my butting political party,
the Independent Party of the Proctologically Violated, which is basically
every effing person on this effing planet working for an effing living,
regardless of credo or political affiliation, incarcerated or not, taste in
cross-dressing, etc.
I will be running for Pres on this ticket.

Many will say, Yeah, but you too will be PV'ing the (m)asses as well, after
you have sold yer own ass to win.
To which I would say,
1. Considering the state of my ass, I could never sell it--talk to my doc;
and
2. Even if I did sell it, my dick is only 9.75" long, so the PV'g I would
deliver would be *mild* compared to the average 18" you are getting shoved
in you by the incumbent mastiffs locally and on capitol hill right now.
Regardless of political party.

I would be honored if Grant Erwin would be my VP.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Al Franken, Hillary, Kennedy, Caught!

Jim Meyers
Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2005

A new book by a top investigative journalist exposes the blatant
hypocrisy of liberals who loudly espouse principles they disregard in
their own personal lives.

In "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy," Hoover
Fellow Peter Schweizer reveals the glaring contradictions between the
public stances and real-life behavior of prominent liberals including
Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi
and Ralph Nader - among others.

"Hypocrisy has proved to be a wonderful weapon for liberals in their
war against conservatives," Schweizer writes in the November issue of
NewsMax Magazine.

"Yet for all the talk about conservative hypocrisy, there has been
very little investigation into the prevalence of hypocrisy on the
left."

After two years of research into liberal hypocrisy, Schweizer said,
"what I discovered was just stunning."


Schweizer's well-annotated book, published by Doubleday, has just been
released and its sure to turn several well-known liberals red with
anger.

Among the eye-opening revelations of "Do As I Say":

# Filmmaker Michael Moore insists that corporations are evil and
claims he doesn't invest in the stock market due to moral principle.
But Moore's IRS forms, viewed by Schweizer, show that over the past
five years he has owned shares in such corporate giants as
Halliburton, Merck, Pfizer, Sunoco, Tenet Healthcare, Ford, General
Electric and McDonald's.

# Staunch union supporter Rep. Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) has received the
Cesar Chavez Award from the United Farmworkers Union. But the $25
million Northern California vineyard she and her husband own is a
non-union shop.

The hypocrisy doesn't end there. Pelosi has received more money from
the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees union than any other
member of Congress in recent election cycles.

But the Pelosis own a large stake in an exclusive hotel in Rutherford,
Calif. It has more than 250 employees. But none of them are in a
union, according to Schweizer, author of "The Bushes: Portrait of a
Dynasty" and a regular contributor to the New York Times, Wall Street
Journal and other periodicals.

The Pelosis are also partners in a restaurant chain called Piatti,
which has 900 employees. The chain is - that's right, a non-union
shop.

# Ralph Nader is another liberal who claims that unions are essential
to protect worker rights. But when an editor of one of his
publications tried to form a union to ameliorate miserable working
conditions, the editor was fired and the locks changed on the office
door.

# Self-described socialist Noam Chomsky has described the Pentagon as
"the most vile institution on the face of the earth" and lashed out
against tax havens and trusts that benefit only the rich.

But Chomsky has been paid millions of dollars by the Pentagon over the
last 40 years, and he used a venerable law firm to set up his
irrevocable trust to shield his assets from the IRS.

# Air America radio host Al Franken says conservatives are racist
because they lack diversity and oppose affirmative action. But fewer
than 1 percent of the people he has hired over the past 15 years have
been African-American.

# Ted Kennedy has fought for the estate tax and spoken out against tax
shelters. But he has repeatedly benefited from an intricate web of
trusts and private foundations that have shielded most of his family's
fortune from the IRS.

One Kennedy family trust wasn't even set up in the U.S., but in Fiji.

Another family member, environmentalist Robert Kennedy Jr., has said
that it is not moral to profit from natural resources. But he receives
an annual check from the family's large holdings in the oil industry.

# Barbra Streisand has talked about the necessity of unions to protect
a "living wage." But she prefers to do her filming and postproduction
work in Canada, where she can pay less than American union wages.

# Bill and Hillary Clinton have spoken in favor of the estate tax, and
in 2000 Bill vetoed a bill seeking to end it. But the Clintons have
set up a contract trust that allows them to substantially reduce the
amount of inheritance tax their estate will pay when they die.

Hillary, for her part, has written and spoken extensively about the
right of children to make major decisions regarding their own lives.

But she barred 13-year-old daughter Chelsea from getting her ears
pierced and forbid the teen from watching MTV or HBO.

# Billionaire Bush-basher George Soros says the wealthy should pay
higher, more progressive tax rates. But he holds the bulk of his money
in tax-free overseas accounts in Curacao, Bermuda and the Cayman
Islands.

Schweizer writes: "Liberals claim to support affirmative action but
don't practice it. They support higher taxes but set up complicated
tax shelters to avoid paying them. They claim to be ardent
environmentalists but abandon their cause when it impinges on their
own property rights.

"The reality is that liberals like to preach in moral platitudes. They
like to condemn ordinary Americans and Republicans for a whole host of
things - racism, lack of concern for the poor, polluting the
environment, and greed.

"But when it comes to applying those same standards to themselves,
liberals are found to be shockingly guilty of hypocrisy.

"The media and the American people need to hold them accountable."





"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

The most important thing that Unions brought about is the middle class.
Before unions there were the extremely rich and the extremely poor. Nothing
in between. The advent of the Unions gave the poor workers a means of
receiving fair pay for fair work. Many non-union industries followed suit in
giving their employees something to live on just to keep the unions out.
Does anyone really believe these non-union corps. would have done this on
their own if it wasn't fear of unionization? It's been a number of
generations since the Unions changed the work force and the economies of the
world so few people in the work force have any idea what it was like for
their parents or grandparents to bring home a dollar a day. Everyone is
looking out for ole #1 and screw the other guy. Why should I pay union dues
if I don't have too is the prevailing mentality in this country and because
of it the middle class is slowly but surely drying up and we're going back
to the two class nation, the extremely rich and the extremely poor.
Dick

--
Richard H. Neighbors
Building and repairing fine billiard cues for real pool players at
affordable prices.
Over 35 years exp. Located in Cincinnati OH
ph.# 513 233-7499
e-mail
web site http://www.dickiecues.com
"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Excellent.

Figgers Moore would own stock in McDonalds.

It is occasionally true that the workers in non-union shops are better off
than their union counterparts. Some employers will remunerate employees
such that the employees will *not opt* for unionization, as they are
fairing a bit better w/o the union/union dues.

Whether that's the case w/ Pelosi remains to be seen.
It proly is not. But the possibility exists.

Unions are no panacea. In the immediate picture, an employer who keeps a
union out thru "matching+", if you will, is proly doing everyone involved
a favor.
OTOH, in the bigger/longer picture, mebbe this "union erosion via employer
benevolence" may be unhealthy for the total workforce, as union's need
their own critical mass to be effective, corrupt pita's that they
themselves are.
Their spectre, at the very least, is important, as history as fairly-well
shown.

As Bugs pointed out, this stuff is, at least in hindsight, obvious.
But still I think it is a good kick-in-the-pants to have it pointed out.

However, more important than any hypocrisy is what Pelosi is *actually
doing for the unions*, outside of her own immediate interests. It is
possible that she really is a helpful force.
Ditto the other acts of hypocrisy.
There is a big difference between being a hypocrit and a traitor.

What opened my eyes was the tidbit that there are more pharmaceutical
lobbyists on capitol hill than there are legislators. And that's just
pharmacy.
This is in fact treason, the selling out of Us to Them.
Of course, we (us) only voted. They (them) actually paid. (Taxes don't
count.)

How 'bout Hoover, my fav. cross-dressing homophobe.... goodgawd.... Is it
true he did high heels, too??

Which is why I invite everyone to indeed join my butting political party,
the Independent Party of the Proctologically Violated, which is basically
every effing person on this effing planet working for an effing living,
regardless of credo or political affiliation, incarcerated or not, taste
in cross-dressing, etc.
I will be running for Pres on this ticket.

Many will say, Yeah, but you too will be PV'ing the (m)asses as well,
after you have sold yer own ass to win.
To which I would say,
1. Considering the state of my ass, I could never sell it--talk to my
doc;
and
2. Even if I did sell it, my dick is only 9.75" long, so the PV'g I would
deliver would be *mild* compared to the average 18" you are getting shoved
in you by the incumbent mastiffs locally and on capitol hill right now.
Regardless of political party.

I would be honored if Grant Erwin would be my VP.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Al Franken, Hillary, Kennedy, Caught!

Jim Meyers
Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2005

A new book by a top investigative journalist exposes the blatant
hypocrisy of liberals who loudly espouse principles they disregard in
their own personal lives.

In "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy," Hoover
Fellow Peter Schweizer reveals the glaring contradictions between the
public stances and real-life behavior of prominent liberals including
Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi
and Ralph Nader - among others.

"Hypocrisy has proved to be a wonderful weapon for liberals in their
war against conservatives," Schweizer writes in the November issue of
NewsMax Magazine.

"Yet for all the talk about conservative hypocrisy, there has been
very little investigation into the prevalence of hypocrisy on the
left."

After two years of research into liberal hypocrisy, Schweizer said,
"what I discovered was just stunning."


Schweizer's well-annotated book, published by Doubleday, has just been
released and its sure to turn several well-known liberals red with
anger.

Among the eye-opening revelations of "Do As I Say":

# Filmmaker Michael Moore insists that corporations are evil and
claims he doesn't invest in the stock market due to moral principle.
But Moore's IRS forms, viewed by Schweizer, show that over the past
five years he has owned shares in such corporate giants as
Halliburton, Merck, Pfizer, Sunoco, Tenet Healthcare, Ford, General
Electric and McDonald's.

# Staunch union supporter Rep. Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) has received the
Cesar Chavez Award from the United Farmworkers Union. But the $25
million Northern California vineyard she and her husband own is a
non-union shop.

The hypocrisy doesn't end there. Pelosi has received more money from
the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees union than any other
member of Congress in recent election cycles.

But the Pelosis own a large stake in an exclusive hotel in Rutherford,
Calif. It has more than 250 employees. But none of them are in a
union, according to Schweizer, author of "The Bushes: Portrait of a
Dynasty" and a regular contributor to the New York Times, Wall Street
Journal and other periodicals.

The Pelosis are also partners in a restaurant chain called Piatti,
which has 900 employees. The chain is - that's right, a non-union
shop.

# Ralph Nader is another liberal who claims that unions are essential
to protect worker rights. But when an editor of one of his
publications tried to form a union to ameliorate miserable working
conditions, the editor was fired and the locks changed on the office
door.

# Self-described socialist Noam Chomsky has described the Pentagon as
"the most vile institution on the face of the earth" and lashed out
against tax havens and trusts that benefit only the rich.

But Chomsky has been paid millions of dollars by the Pentagon over the
last 40 years, and he used a venerable law firm to set up his
irrevocable trust to shield his assets from the IRS.

# Air America radio host Al Franken says conservatives are racist
because they lack diversity and oppose affirmative action. But fewer
than 1 percent of the people he has hired over the past 15 years have
been African-American.

# Ted Kennedy has fought for the estate tax and spoken out against tax
shelters. But he has repeatedly benefited from an intricate web of
trusts and private foundations that have shielded most of his family's
fortune from the IRS.

One Kennedy family trust wasn't even set up in the U.S., but in Fiji.

Another family member, environmentalist Robert Kennedy Jr., has said
that it is not moral to profit from natural resources. But he receives
an annual check from the family's large holdings in the oil industry.

# Barbra Streisand has talked about the necessity of unions to protect
a "living wage." But she prefers to do her filming and postproduction
work in Canada, where she can pay less than American union wages.

# Bill and Hillary Clinton have spoken in favor of the estate tax, and
in 2000 Bill vetoed a bill seeking to end it. But the Clintons have
set up a contract trust that allows them to substantially reduce the
amount of inheritance tax their estate will pay when they die.

Hillary, for her part, has written and spoken extensively about the
right of children to make major decisions regarding their own lives.

But she barred 13-year-old daughter Chelsea from getting her ears
pierced and forbid the teen from watching MTV or HBO.

# Billionaire Bush-basher George Soros says the wealthy should pay
higher, more progressive tax rates. But he holds the bulk of his money
in tax-free overseas accounts in Curacao, Bermuda and the Cayman
Islands.

Schweizer writes: "Liberals claim to support affirmative action but
don't practice it. They support higher taxes but set up complicated
tax shelters to avoid paying them. They claim to be ardent
environmentalists but abandon their cause when it impinges on their
own property rights.

"The reality is that liberals like to preach in moral platitudes. They
like to condemn ordinary Americans and Republicans for a whole host of
things - racism, lack of concern for the poor, polluting the
environment, and greed.

"But when it comes to applying those same standards to themselves,
liberals are found to be shockingly guilty of hypocrisy.

"The media and the American people need to hold them accountable."





"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Agreed.
Ergo the notion of "critical mass" in union effectiveness.

Now, the problem is that in our "global economy" (which I think is a new
int'l sport of Let's **** America (back) ), the calculation of this critical
mass has changed enormously, because the global workforce not only dwarfs
the American workforce, it is also largely non-unionized, to say the least.
So the noble Merkin Union almost by definition is pricing its members out of
employment--for now. At least while the Global Standard of Living
equilibrates.

Our domestic Corp Solution also seems to be **** America(ns).... We'll just
move overseas.
You might soon see the medical profession operating from overseas. You may
actually visit your (useless) GP in yer neighborhood, but all your lab
work/radiography/etc. may be analyzed in Bombay.
Sorta like HP customer service/tech support in Bombay. I alway compliment
them on their English.

In my naive economic mind, the only solution is legislating imports; Harley
did it, apparently w/ great effectiveness, but not many others have, it
seems. Overall this process is proly another whole dicey ball of wax, and,
given how our own corp. gummint has no qualms about selling us down the
river, it may not make a diff anyway.

And, does it really matter who PV's you, foreigners or yer own Merkin corps?
I think the only difference might lie in the circumcision.

So, will you join the IPPV and vote for me?
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Dick" wrote in message
...
The most important thing that Unions brought about is the middle class.
Before unions there were the extremely rich and the extremely poor.
Nothing in between. The advent of the Unions gave the poor workers a means
of receiving fair pay for fair work. Many non-union industries followed
suit in giving their employees something to live on just to keep the
unions out. Does anyone really believe these non-union corps. would have
done this on their own if it wasn't fear of unionization? It's been a
number of generations since the Unions changed the work force and the
economies of the world so few people in the work force have any idea what
it was like for their parents or grandparents to bring home a dollar a
day. Everyone is looking out for ole #1 and screw the other guy. Why
should I pay union dues if I don't have too is the prevailing mentality in
this country and because of it the middle class is slowly but surely
drying up and we're going back to the two class nation, the extremely rich
and the extremely poor.
Dick

--
Richard H. Neighbors
Building and repairing fine billiard cues for real pool players at
affordable prices.
Over 35 years exp. Located in Cincinnati OH
ph.# 513 233-7499
e-mail
web site http://www.dickiecues.com
"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Excellent.

Figgers Moore would own stock in McDonalds.

It is occasionally true that the workers in non-union shops are better
off than their union counterparts. Some employers will remunerate
employees such that the employees will *not opt* for unionization, as
they are fairing a bit better w/o the union/union dues.

Whether that's the case w/ Pelosi remains to be seen.
It proly is not. But the possibility exists.

Unions are no panacea. In the immediate picture, an employer who keeps a
union out thru "matching+", if you will, is proly doing everyone involved
a favor.
OTOH, in the bigger/longer picture, mebbe this "union erosion via
employer benevolence" may be unhealthy for the total workforce, as
union's need their own critical mass to be effective, corrupt pita's that
they themselves are.
Their spectre, at the very least, is important, as history as fairly-well
shown.

As Bugs pointed out, this stuff is, at least in hindsight, obvious.
But still I think it is a good kick-in-the-pants to have it pointed out.

However, more important than any hypocrisy is what Pelosi is *actually
doing for the unions*, outside of her own immediate interests. It is
possible that she really is a helpful force.
Ditto the other acts of hypocrisy.
There is a big difference between being a hypocrit and a traitor.

What opened my eyes was the tidbit that there are more pharmaceutical
lobbyists on capitol hill than there are legislators. And that's just
pharmacy.
This is in fact treason, the selling out of Us to Them.
Of course, we (us) only voted. They (them) actually paid. (Taxes don't
count.)

How 'bout Hoover, my fav. cross-dressing homophobe.... goodgawd.... Is
it true he did high heels, too??

Which is why I invite everyone to indeed join my butting political party,
the Independent Party of the Proctologically Violated, which is basically
every effing person on this effing planet working for an effing living,
regardless of credo or political affiliation, incarcerated or not, taste
in cross-dressing, etc.
I will be running for Pres on this ticket.

Many will say, Yeah, but you too will be PV'ing the (m)asses as well,
after you have sold yer own ass to win.
To which I would say,
1. Considering the state of my ass, I could never sell it--talk to my
doc;
and
2. Even if I did sell it, my dick is only 9.75" long, so the PV'g I
would deliver would be *mild* compared to the average 18" you are getting
shoved in you by the incumbent mastiffs locally and on capitol hill right
now.
Regardless of political party.

I would be honored if Grant Erwin would be my VP.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Al Franken, Hillary, Kennedy, Caught!

Jim Meyers
Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2005

A new book by a top investigative journalist exposes the blatant
hypocrisy of liberals who loudly espouse principles they disregard in
their own personal lives.

In "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy," Hoover
Fellow Peter Schweizer reveals the glaring contradictions between the
public stances and real-life behavior of prominent liberals including
Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi
and Ralph Nader - among others.

"Hypocrisy has proved to be a wonderful weapon for liberals in their
war against conservatives," Schweizer writes in the November issue of
NewsMax Magazine.

"Yet for all the talk about conservative hypocrisy, there has been
very little investigation into the prevalence of hypocrisy on the
left."

After two years of research into liberal hypocrisy, Schweizer said,
"what I discovered was just stunning."


Schweizer's well-annotated book, published by Doubleday, has just been
released and its sure to turn several well-known liberals red with
anger.

Among the eye-opening revelations of "Do As I Say":

# Filmmaker Michael Moore insists that corporations are evil and
claims he doesn't invest in the stock market due to moral principle.
But Moore's IRS forms, viewed by Schweizer, show that over the past
five years he has owned shares in such corporate giants as
Halliburton, Merck, Pfizer, Sunoco, Tenet Healthcare, Ford, General
Electric and McDonald's.

# Staunch union supporter Rep. Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) has received the
Cesar Chavez Award from the United Farmworkers Union. But the $25
million Northern California vineyard she and her husband own is a
non-union shop.

The hypocrisy doesn't end there. Pelosi has received more money from
the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees union than any other
member of Congress in recent election cycles.

But the Pelosis own a large stake in an exclusive hotel in Rutherford,
Calif. It has more than 250 employees. But none of them are in a
union, according to Schweizer, author of "The Bushes: Portrait of a
Dynasty" and a regular contributor to the New York Times, Wall Street
Journal and other periodicals.

The Pelosis are also partners in a restaurant chain called Piatti,
which has 900 employees. The chain is - that's right, a non-union
shop.

# Ralph Nader is another liberal who claims that unions are essential
to protect worker rights. But when an editor of one of his
publications tried to form a union to ameliorate miserable working
conditions, the editor was fired and the locks changed on the office
door.

# Self-described socialist Noam Chomsky has described the Pentagon as
"the most vile institution on the face of the earth" and lashed out
against tax havens and trusts that benefit only the rich.

But Chomsky has been paid millions of dollars by the Pentagon over the
last 40 years, and he used a venerable law firm to set up his
irrevocable trust to shield his assets from the IRS.

# Air America radio host Al Franken says conservatives are racist
because they lack diversity and oppose affirmative action. But fewer
than 1 percent of the people he has hired over the past 15 years have
been African-American.

# Ted Kennedy has fought for the estate tax and spoken out against tax
shelters. But he has repeatedly benefited from an intricate web of
trusts and private foundations that have shielded most of his family's
fortune from the IRS.

One Kennedy family trust wasn't even set up in the U.S., but in Fiji.

Another family member, environmentalist Robert Kennedy Jr., has said
that it is not moral to profit from natural resources. But he receives
an annual check from the family's large holdings in the oil industry.

# Barbra Streisand has talked about the necessity of unions to protect
a "living wage." But she prefers to do her filming and postproduction
work in Canada, where she can pay less than American union wages.

# Bill and Hillary Clinton have spoken in favor of the estate tax, and
in 2000 Bill vetoed a bill seeking to end it. But the Clintons have
set up a contract trust that allows them to substantially reduce the
amount of inheritance tax their estate will pay when they die.

Hillary, for her part, has written and spoken extensively about the
right of children to make major decisions regarding their own lives.

But she barred 13-year-old daughter Chelsea from getting her ears
pierced and forbid the teen from watching MTV or HBO.

# Billionaire Bush-basher George Soros says the wealthy should pay
higher, more progressive tax rates. But he holds the bulk of his money
in tax-free overseas accounts in Curacao, Bermuda and the Cayman
Islands.

Schweizer writes: "Liberals claim to support affirmative action but
don't practice it. They support higher taxes but set up complicated
tax shelters to avoid paying them. They claim to be ardent
environmentalists but abandon their cause when it impinges on their
own property rights.

"The reality is that liberals like to preach in moral platitudes. They
like to condemn ordinary Americans and Republicans for a whole host of
things - racism, lack of concern for the poor, polluting the
environment, and greed.

"But when it comes to applying those same standards to themselves,
liberals are found to be shockingly guilty of hypocrisy.

"The media and the American people need to hold them accountable."





"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Little known fact -- There are more English speakers in India than there
are in the U.S.


"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Agreed.
Ergo the notion of "critical mass" in union effectiveness.

Now, the problem is that in our "global economy" (which I think is a new
int'l sport of Let's **** America (back) ), the calculation of this
critical mass has changed enormously, because the global workforce not
only dwarfs the American workforce, it is also largely non-unionized, to
say the least.
So the noble Merkin Union almost by definition is pricing its members out
of employment--for now. At least while the Global Standard of Living
equilibrates.

Our domestic Corp Solution also seems to be **** America(ns).... We'll
just move overseas.
You might soon see the medical profession operating from overseas. You
may actually visit your (useless) GP in yer neighborhood, but all your lab
work/radiography/etc. may be analyzed in Bombay.
Sorta like HP customer service/tech support in Bombay. I alway compliment
them on their English.

In my naive economic mind, the only solution is legislating imports;
Harley did it, apparently w/ great effectiveness, but not many others
have, it seems. Overall this process is proly another whole dicey ball of
wax, and, given how our own corp. gummint has no qualms about selling us
down the river, it may not make a diff anyway.

And, does it really matter who PV's you, foreigners or yer own Merkin
corps? I think the only difference might lie in the circumcision.

So, will you join the IPPV and vote for me?
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Dick" wrote in message
...
The most important thing that Unions brought about is the middle class.
Before unions there were the extremely rich and the extremely poor.
Nothing in between. The advent of the Unions gave the poor workers a
means of receiving fair pay for fair work. Many non-union industries
followed suit in giving their employees something to live on just to keep
the unions out. Does anyone really believe these non-union corps. would
have done this on their own if it wasn't fear of unionization? It's been
a number of generations since the Unions changed the work force and the
economies of the world so few people in the work force have any idea what
it was like for their parents or grandparents to bring home a dollar a
day. Everyone is looking out for ole #1 and screw the other guy. Why
should I pay union dues if I don't have too is the prevailing mentality
in this country and because of it the middle class is slowly but surely
drying up and we're going back to the two class nation, the extremely
rich and the extremely poor.
Dick

--
Richard H. Neighbors
Building and repairing fine billiard cues for real pool players at
affordable prices.
Over 35 years exp. Located in Cincinnati OH
ph.# 513 233-7499
e-mail
web site http://www.dickiecues.com
"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Excellent.

Figgers Moore would own stock in McDonalds.

It is occasionally true that the workers in non-union shops are better
off than their union counterparts. Some employers will remunerate
employees such that the employees will *not opt* for unionization, as
they are fairing a bit better w/o the union/union dues.

Whether that's the case w/ Pelosi remains to be seen.
It proly is not. But the possibility exists.

Unions are no panacea. In the immediate picture, an employer who keeps
a union out thru "matching+", if you will, is proly doing everyone
involved a favor.
OTOH, in the bigger/longer picture, mebbe this "union erosion via
employer benevolence" may be unhealthy for the total workforce, as
union's need their own critical mass to be effective, corrupt pita's
that they themselves are.
Their spectre, at the very least, is important, as history as
fairly-well shown.

As Bugs pointed out, this stuff is, at least in hindsight, obvious.
But still I think it is a good kick-in-the-pants to have it pointed out.

However, more important than any hypocrisy is what Pelosi is *actually
doing for the unions*, outside of her own immediate interests. It is
possible that she really is a helpful force.
Ditto the other acts of hypocrisy.
There is a big difference between being a hypocrit and a traitor.

What opened my eyes was the tidbit that there are more pharmaceutical
lobbyists on capitol hill than there are legislators. And that's just
pharmacy.
This is in fact treason, the selling out of Us to Them.
Of course, we (us) only voted. They (them) actually paid. (Taxes don't
count.)

How 'bout Hoover, my fav. cross-dressing homophobe.... goodgawd.... Is
it true he did high heels, too??

Which is why I invite everyone to indeed join my butting political
party, the Independent Party of the Proctologically Violated, which is
basically every effing person on this effing planet working for an
effing living, regardless of credo or political affiliation,
incarcerated or not, taste in cross-dressing, etc.
I will be running for Pres on this ticket.

Many will say, Yeah, but you too will be PV'ing the (m)asses as well,
after you have sold yer own ass to win.
To which I would say,
1. Considering the state of my ass, I could never sell it--talk to my
doc;
and
2. Even if I did sell it, my dick is only 9.75" long, so the PV'g I
would deliver would be *mild* compared to the average 18" you are
getting shoved in you by the incumbent mastiffs locally and on capitol
hill right now.
Regardless of political party.

I would be honored if Grant Erwin would be my VP.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Al Franken, Hillary, Kennedy, Caught!

Jim Meyers
Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2005

A new book by a top investigative journalist exposes the blatant
hypocrisy of liberals who loudly espouse principles they disregard in
their own personal lives.

In "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy," Hoover
Fellow Peter Schweizer reveals the glaring contradictions between the
public stances and real-life behavior of prominent liberals including
Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi
and Ralph Nader - among others.

"Hypocrisy has proved to be a wonderful weapon for liberals in their
war against conservatives," Schweizer writes in the November issue of
NewsMax Magazine.

"Yet for all the talk about conservative hypocrisy, there has been
very little investigation into the prevalence of hypocrisy on the
left."

After two years of research into liberal hypocrisy, Schweizer said,
"what I discovered was just stunning."


Schweizer's well-annotated book, published by Doubleday, has just been
released and its sure to turn several well-known liberals red with
anger.

Among the eye-opening revelations of "Do As I Say":

# Filmmaker Michael Moore insists that corporations are evil and
claims he doesn't invest in the stock market due to moral principle.
But Moore's IRS forms, viewed by Schweizer, show that over the past
five years he has owned shares in such corporate giants as
Halliburton, Merck, Pfizer, Sunoco, Tenet Healthcare, Ford, General
Electric and McDonald's.

# Staunch union supporter Rep. Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) has received the
Cesar Chavez Award from the United Farmworkers Union. But the $25
million Northern California vineyard she and her husband own is a
non-union shop.

The hypocrisy doesn't end there. Pelosi has received more money from
the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees union than any other
member of Congress in recent election cycles.

But the Pelosis own a large stake in an exclusive hotel in Rutherford,
Calif. It has more than 250 employees. But none of them are in a
union, according to Schweizer, author of "The Bushes: Portrait of a
Dynasty" and a regular contributor to the New York Times, Wall Street
Journal and other periodicals.

The Pelosis are also partners in a restaurant chain called Piatti,
which has 900 employees. The chain is - that's right, a non-union
shop.

# Ralph Nader is another liberal who claims that unions are essential
to protect worker rights. But when an editor of one of his
publications tried to form a union to ameliorate miserable working
conditions, the editor was fired and the locks changed on the office
door.

# Self-described socialist Noam Chomsky has described the Pentagon as
"the most vile institution on the face of the earth" and lashed out
against tax havens and trusts that benefit only the rich.

But Chomsky has been paid millions of dollars by the Pentagon over the
last 40 years, and he used a venerable law firm to set up his
irrevocable trust to shield his assets from the IRS.

# Air America radio host Al Franken says conservatives are racist
because they lack diversity and oppose affirmative action. But fewer
than 1 percent of the people he has hired over the past 15 years have
been African-American.

# Ted Kennedy has fought for the estate tax and spoken out against tax
shelters. But he has repeatedly benefited from an intricate web of
trusts and private foundations that have shielded most of his family's
fortune from the IRS.

One Kennedy family trust wasn't even set up in the U.S., but in Fiji.

Another family member, environmentalist Robert Kennedy Jr., has said
that it is not moral to profit from natural resources. But he receives
an annual check from the family's large holdings in the oil industry.

# Barbra Streisand has talked about the necessity of unions to protect
a "living wage." But she prefers to do her filming and postproduction
work in Canada, where she can pay less than American union wages.

# Bill and Hillary Clinton have spoken in favor of the estate tax, and
in 2000 Bill vetoed a bill seeking to end it. But the Clintons have
set up a contract trust that allows them to substantially reduce the
amount of inheritance tax their estate will pay when they die.

Hillary, for her part, has written and spoken extensively about the
right of children to make major decisions regarding their own lives.

But she barred 13-year-old daughter Chelsea from getting her ears
pierced and forbid the teen from watching MTV or HBO.

# Billionaire Bush-basher George Soros says the wealthy should pay
higher, more progressive tax rates. But he holds the bulk of his money
in tax-free overseas accounts in Curacao, Bermuda and the Cayman
Islands.

Schweizer writes: "Liberals claim to support affirmative action but
don't practice it. They support higher taxes but set up complicated
tax shelters to avoid paying them. They claim to be ardent
environmentalists but abandon their cause when it impinges on their
own property rights.

"The reality is that liberals like to preach in moral platitudes. They
like to condemn ordinary Americans and Republicans for a whole host of
things - racism, lack of concern for the poor, polluting the
environment, and greed.

"But when it comes to applying those same standards to themselves,
liberals are found to be shockingly guilty of hypocrisy.

"The media and the American people need to hold them accountable."





"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Emmo" wrote in message
...
Little known fact -- There are more English speakers in India than there
are in the U.S.

2nd little known fact:
They speak it more better than we does.

3rd little known fact:
Ever hear of Punjabi rap? I have.... blasting out of pimped-out Civics in
Queens. Goodgawd....
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll


"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Agreed.
Ergo the notion of "critical mass" in union effectiveness.

Now, the problem is that in our "global economy" (which I think is a new
int'l sport of Let's **** America (back) ), the calculation of this
critical mass has changed enormously, because the global workforce not
only dwarfs the American workforce, it is also largely non-unionized, to
say the least.
So the noble Merkin Union almost by definition is pricing its members out
of employment--for now. At least while the Global Standard of Living
equilibrates.

Our domestic Corp Solution also seems to be **** America(ns).... We'll
just move overseas.
You might soon see the medical profession operating from overseas. You
may actually visit your (useless) GP in yer neighborhood, but all your
lab work/radiography/etc. may be analyzed in Bombay.
Sorta like HP customer service/tech support in Bombay. I alway
compliment them on their English.

In my naive economic mind, the only solution is legislating imports;
Harley did it, apparently w/ great effectiveness, but not many others
have, it seems. Overall this process is proly another whole dicey ball
of wax, and, given how our own corp. gummint has no qualms about selling
us down the river, it may not make a diff anyway.

And, does it really matter who PV's you, foreigners or yer own Merkin
corps? I think the only difference might lie in the circumcision.

So, will you join the IPPV and vote for me?
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Dick" wrote in message
...
The most important thing that Unions brought about is the middle class.
Before unions there were the extremely rich and the extremely poor.
Nothing in between. The advent of the Unions gave the poor workers a
means of receiving fair pay for fair work. Many non-union industries
followed suit in giving their employees something to live on just to
keep the unions out. Does anyone really believe these non-union corps.
would have done this on their own if it wasn't fear of unionization?
It's been a number of generations since the Unions changed the work
force and the economies of the world so few people in the work force
have any idea what it was like for their parents or grandparents to
bring home a dollar a day. Everyone is looking out for ole #1 and screw
the other guy. Why should I pay union dues if I don't have too is the
prevailing mentality in this country and because of it the middle class
is slowly but surely drying up and we're going back to the two class
nation, the extremely rich and the extremely poor.
Dick

--
Richard H. Neighbors
Building and repairing fine billiard cues for real pool players at
affordable prices.
Over 35 years exp. Located in Cincinnati OH
ph.# 513 233-7499
e-mail
web site http://www.dickiecues.com
"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Excellent.

Figgers Moore would own stock in McDonalds.

It is occasionally true that the workers in non-union shops are better
off than their union counterparts. Some employers will remunerate
employees such that the employees will *not opt* for unionization, as
they are fairing a bit better w/o the union/union dues.

Whether that's the case w/ Pelosi remains to be seen.
It proly is not. But the possibility exists.

Unions are no panacea. In the immediate picture, an employer who keeps
a union out thru "matching+", if you will, is proly doing everyone
involved a favor.
OTOH, in the bigger/longer picture, mebbe this "union erosion via
employer benevolence" may be unhealthy for the total workforce, as
union's need their own critical mass to be effective, corrupt pita's
that they themselves are.
Their spectre, at the very least, is important, as history as
fairly-well shown.

As Bugs pointed out, this stuff is, at least in hindsight, obvious.
But still I think it is a good kick-in-the-pants to have it pointed
out.

However, more important than any hypocrisy is what Pelosi is *actually
doing for the unions*, outside of her own immediate interests. It is
possible that she really is a helpful force.
Ditto the other acts of hypocrisy.
There is a big difference between being a hypocrit and a traitor.

What opened my eyes was the tidbit that there are more pharmaceutical
lobbyists on capitol hill than there are legislators. And that's just
pharmacy.
This is in fact treason, the selling out of Us to Them.
Of course, we (us) only voted. They (them) actually paid. (Taxes don't
count.)

How 'bout Hoover, my fav. cross-dressing homophobe.... goodgawd.... Is
it true he did high heels, too??

Which is why I invite everyone to indeed join my butting political
party, the Independent Party of the Proctologically Violated, which is
basically every effing person on this effing planet working for an
effing living, regardless of credo or political affiliation,
incarcerated or not, taste in cross-dressing, etc.
I will be running for Pres on this ticket.

Many will say, Yeah, but you too will be PV'ing the (m)asses as well,
after you have sold yer own ass to win.
To which I would say,
1. Considering the state of my ass, I could never sell it--talk to my
doc;
and
2. Even if I did sell it, my dick is only 9.75" long, so the PV'g I
would deliver would be *mild* compared to the average 18" you are
getting shoved in you by the incumbent mastiffs locally and on capitol
hill right now.
Regardless of political party.

I would be honored if Grant Erwin would be my VP.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Al Franken, Hillary, Kennedy, Caught!

Jim Meyers
Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2005

A new book by a top investigative journalist exposes the blatant
hypocrisy of liberals who loudly espouse principles they disregard in
their own personal lives.

In "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy," Hoover
Fellow Peter Schweizer reveals the glaring contradictions between the
public stances and real-life behavior of prominent liberals including
Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi
and Ralph Nader - among others.

"Hypocrisy has proved to be a wonderful weapon for liberals in their
war against conservatives," Schweizer writes in the November issue of
NewsMax Magazine.

"Yet for all the talk about conservative hypocrisy, there has been
very little investigation into the prevalence of hypocrisy on the
left."

After two years of research into liberal hypocrisy, Schweizer said,
"what I discovered was just stunning."


Schweizer's well-annotated book, published by Doubleday, has just been
released and its sure to turn several well-known liberals red with
anger.

Among the eye-opening revelations of "Do As I Say":

# Filmmaker Michael Moore insists that corporations are evil and
claims he doesn't invest in the stock market due to moral principle.
But Moore's IRS forms, viewed by Schweizer, show that over the past
five years he has owned shares in such corporate giants as
Halliburton, Merck, Pfizer, Sunoco, Tenet Healthcare, Ford, General
Electric and McDonald's.

# Staunch union supporter Rep. Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) has received the
Cesar Chavez Award from the United Farmworkers Union. But the $25
million Northern California vineyard she and her husband own is a
non-union shop.

The hypocrisy doesn't end there. Pelosi has received more money from
the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees union than any other
member of Congress in recent election cycles.

But the Pelosis own a large stake in an exclusive hotel in Rutherford,
Calif. It has more than 250 employees. But none of them are in a
union, according to Schweizer, author of "The Bushes: Portrait of a
Dynasty" and a regular contributor to the New York Times, Wall Street
Journal and other periodicals.

The Pelosis are also partners in a restaurant chain called Piatti,
which has 900 employees. The chain is - that's right, a non-union
shop.

# Ralph Nader is another liberal who claims that unions are essential
to protect worker rights. But when an editor of one of his
publications tried to form a union to ameliorate miserable working
conditions, the editor was fired and the locks changed on the office
door.

# Self-described socialist Noam Chomsky has described the Pentagon as
"the most vile institution on the face of the earth" and lashed out
against tax havens and trusts that benefit only the rich.

But Chomsky has been paid millions of dollars by the Pentagon over the
last 40 years, and he used a venerable law firm to set up his
irrevocable trust to shield his assets from the IRS.

# Air America radio host Al Franken says conservatives are racist
because they lack diversity and oppose affirmative action. But fewer
than 1 percent of the people he has hired over the past 15 years have
been African-American.

# Ted Kennedy has fought for the estate tax and spoken out against tax
shelters. But he has repeatedly benefited from an intricate web of
trusts and private foundations that have shielded most of his family's
fortune from the IRS.

One Kennedy family trust wasn't even set up in the U.S., but in Fiji.

Another family member, environmentalist Robert Kennedy Jr., has said
that it is not moral to profit from natural resources. But he receives
an annual check from the family's large holdings in the oil industry.

# Barbra Streisand has talked about the necessity of unions to protect
a "living wage." But she prefers to do her filming and postproduction
work in Canada, where she can pay less than American union wages.

# Bill and Hillary Clinton have spoken in favor of the estate tax, and
in 2000 Bill vetoed a bill seeking to end it. But the Clintons have
set up a contract trust that allows them to substantially reduce the
amount of inheritance tax their estate will pay when they die.

Hillary, for her part, has written and spoken extensively about the
right of children to make major decisions regarding their own lives.

But she barred 13-year-old daughter Chelsea from getting her ears
pierced and forbid the teen from watching MTV or HBO.

# Billionaire Bush-basher George Soros says the wealthy should pay
higher, more progressive tax rates. But he holds the bulk of his money
in tax-free overseas accounts in Curacao, Bermuda and the Cayman
Islands.

Schweizer writes: "Liberals claim to support affirmative action but
don't practice it. They support higher taxes but set up complicated
tax shelters to avoid paying them. They claim to be ardent
environmentalists but abandon their cause when it impinges on their
own property rights.

"The reality is that liberals like to preach in moral platitudes. They
like to condemn ordinary Americans and Republicans for a whole host of
things - racism, lack of concern for the poor, polluting the
environment, and greed.

"But when it comes to applying those same standards to themselves,
liberals are found to be shockingly guilty of hypocrisy.

"The media and the American people need to hold them accountable."





"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

In article , Proctologically Violated©® says...

In my naive economic mind, the only solution is legislating imports;

I think you first need to decide what is an 'import.'

Are imported goods, those that are shipped to the US by a
company owned by a foreign company? Or are they *any* goods
shipped in, even if by a US owned and heatquartered company?

I would maintain you don't need to put tarriffs on 'imports'
if you simply define the second set as "not imported goods."
There is a good deal of common sense in doing this.

At this point you tax companies that manufacture overseas, on
the retail value of their products.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 17:56:39 GMT, "Dick"
wrote:

The most important thing that Unions brought about is the middle class.

Bull****. The U.S. has always had a robust middle class.
My ancestors (not counting the Indians) lived here since, in
some cases, 1620. My ancestors, and most of my siblings,
have always been middle class. None of them, so far as I
know, has ever been a labor union member, and thus a party
to the extortion and coercion that are labor union
specialties.

Before unions there were the extremely rich and the extremely poor.

Bull****.

Nothing
in between.

Bull****. (rest of similar bull****, snipped)

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 08:07:03 -0800, Robert Sturgeon
wrote:

The U.S. has always had a robust middle class.

Rubbish.
You seem to know nothing of history.
--
Cliff

Actually the growth of the middle class in the US did not begin until the
1920's with the start of consumerism. For most of the 19th and early 20th
century the "middle class" as we know it made up less than 5% of the
population. They were shop keepers, small manufacturers, some professions
and a very few craftsmen. Consumerism got a big boost from improvements in
mass production and union activity increased the base wage level allowing
workers to enter the middle class. Except for the depression years it
continued to grow through the '80s when it began shrinking again as a
percentage of the population.

The unions can't be credited with all the progress of the middle class but
they did have a major effect.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Robert Sturgeon" wrote

The most important thing that Unions brought about is the middle class.

Bull****. The U.S. has always had a robust middle class.
My ancestors (not counting the Indians) lived here since, in
some cases, 1620. My ancestors, and most of my siblings,
have always been middle class. None of them, so far as I
know, has ever been a labor union member, and thus a party
to the extortion and coercion that are labor union
specialties.

Before unions there were the extremely rich and the extremely poor.

Bull****.

Nothing
in between.

Bull****. (rest of similar bull****, snipped)

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...

How 'bout Hoover, my fav. cross-dressing homophobe.... goodgawd....
Is it true he did high heels, too??

Please try not to flaunt your ignorance by repeating an urban legend that
has been propagated by demagogues on the Left to vilify one of their
enemies.

The myth of Hoover's cross-dressing all stems from the allegations of one
person: Susan Rosenstiel, a convicted perjurer who held a personal grudge
against Hoover (something to do with a divorce dispute with her ex-husband,
Lewis Rosenstiel). Apparently, Susan Rosenstiel "shopped" this allegation
around to a number of people in high places, including Justice Dept
attorneys and journalists. The investigations found Susan's claims to be
total fabrications. but one author, Anthony Summers, paid Susan for
interviews she gave him and then used her stories in a book he wrote titled,
"Official and Confidential: The Secret Life of J. Edgar Hoover".

Hoover (and the then FBI) had many arch-enemies: criminal, political
(anti-American Communists and Leftists), and social (including homosexual
activists). So the publication of this unsubstantiated allegation of his
cross-dressing was like throwing a lit match on a haystack doused with
gasoline. Of course, the liberal "mainstream" media took the story on faith
and ran with it (just like Dan Rather's forged documents story). Even
cartoonist Pat Oliphant, drew a cartoon depicting Hoover in a dress. And the
Left continues to profit from denigrating and marginalizing Hoover (as they
do with all their enemies). Which is why this urabn legend will not die.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Al Franken, Hillary, Kennedy, Caught!

Jim Meyers
Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2005

A new book by a top investigative journalist exposes the blatant
hypocrisy of liberals who loudly espouse principles they disregard in
their own personal lives.

Hypocrisy isn't limited to Liberals.
One of the most blatant forms of hypocrisy is practiced by the
Bible-thumbers who advocate "Christian values" and violate biblical law on a
daily basis.
Who makes up the majority of those Bible-thumping hypocrites? Why
conservatives, of course.

lib-tard kunkel, in a fit of panicked desparation wailed:

One of the most blatant forms of hypocrisy is practiced by the
Bible-thumbers who advocate "Christian values" and violate biblical law on a
daily basis.
Who makes up the majority of those Bible-thumping hypocrites? Why
conservatives, of course.

Actually, Christians are subject to the law, as Israel is. Christians
know that they could never keep the law, as they are only men, made of
corrupt flesh. Christians also know that man, being corrupted flesh,
could never atone for his sins. That is why God sent Christ, as the
perfect atonement. As Christians, we accept and know that is the price
PAID for our sins. As a Christian, we also know that this doesn't give
us license to sin. That attitude would be indicative of someone who
wasn't truely a Christian. All Christians have sinned and those still
living in the flesh will sin again. It's our corrupted nature. It's not
any more hypocritical than the track coach who tells his star runner to
try and shave 0.5 seconds off his 100m time, then failing to do the
same himself.

I'll won't bother providing cites for the above facts. Instead, I'll
just add you to the pinko file.

Tillman

In article .com, tillius
says...

I'll won't bother providing cites for the above facts. Instead, I'll
just add you to the pinko file.

The world must be a strange place to you. So far everyone you
interact with on rcm is a "pinko." They go into your "pinko"
file in short order.

But first whoever you are bantering with has to have the obligatory
personal bad-mouthing and insult applied. Everyone's so dumb.
You are smart. Everyone else is a pinko. You have your house
in order. Great. How nice for you.

You don't seem to do any metalworking, that's obvious by looking
at the sum total of all your posts here in recent days. You just
wander in, spit on the floor, and call everyone here an idiot
or an asshole.

Why not just cut to the chase: put all of rcm into 'pinkland'
or whatever sticker you want to slap on it. And then you won't
see any of the comments from the regulars here, and you won't
have to bother replying to them.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

more lib-tard dribble from jim rozen-commie:

The world must be a strange place to you. So far everyone you
interact with on rcm is a "pinko." They go into your "pinko"
file in short order.

pinko bothers ya, huh? Something about the truth hurts and all that.
grin

But first whoever you are bantering with has to have the obligatory
personal bad-mouthing and insult applied. Everyone's so dumb.
You are smart. Everyone else is a pinko. You have your house
in order. Great. How nice for you.

Well, not everyone qualifies as a pinko. Makes ya feel special, don't
it?

You don't seem to do any metalworking, that's obvious by looking
at the sum total of all your posts here in recent days. You just
wander in, spit on the floor, and call everyone here an idiot
or an asshole.

I'm actually a metalworking newbie. I don't feel I can knowledgably
offer much to the on-topic threads, with the exception of the questions
I've asked (with great answers, by the way). I wish the political crap
were confined to the political newsgroups where I could ignore it, but
it keeps getting posted here, mostly started by lib-tards, although
there do seem to be some conservatives who are guilty of starting OT
threads.

Why not just cut to the chase: put all of rcm into 'pinkland'
or whatever sticker you want to slap on it. And then you won't
see any of the comments from the regulars here, and you won't
have to bother replying to them.

What fun would that be? pinko

Tillman

In article . com, tillius
says...

I'm actually a metalworking newbie.

Funny, even our resident neocon Gunner offers sound
and solid advice on machinery. There's a give and
take on political matters but he does more than
just mark his territory on the ng.

With your track record, I'd be suprised if
anyone takes your interest in the subject
seriously. You just look too much like a
troll for that.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

tillius wrote:

lib-tard kunkel, in a fit of panicked desparation wailed:



One of the most blatant forms of hypocrisy is practiced by the
Bible-thumbers who advocate "Christian values" and violate biblical law on a
daily basis.
Who makes up the majority of those Bible-thumping hypocrites? Why
conservatives, of course.



Actually, Christians are subject to the law, as Israel is. Christians
know that they could never keep the law, as they are only men, made of
corrupt flesh. Christians also know that man, being corrupted flesh,
could never atone for his sins. That is why God sent Christ, as the
perfect atonement. As Christians, we accept and know that is the price
PAID for our sins. As a Christian, we also know that this doesn't give
us license to sin. That attitude would be indicative of someone who
wasn't truely a Christian. All Christians have sinned and those still
living in the flesh will sin again. It's our corrupted nature. It's not
any more hypocritical than the track coach who tells his star runner to
try and shave 0.5 seconds off his 100m time, then failing to do the
same himself.

I'll won't bother providing cites for the above facts. Instead, I'll
just add you to the pinko file.

Tillman



Huh???? You appear to be saying that it is man's inherent nature to sin
therefore "that's just the way it is". Ok, so in your world God didn't
give man free will to choose NOT to lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc.

The real sin of most bible thumpers is claiming that they know what God
wants.

Koz

"Koz" wrote in message
...


tillius wrote:

lib-tard kunkel, in a fit of panicked desparation wailed:


One of the most blatant forms of hypocrisy is practiced by the
Bible-thumbers who advocate "Christian values" and violate biblical law
on a
daily basis.
Who makes up the majority of those Bible-thumping hypocrites? Why
conservatives, of course.


Actually, Christians are subject to the law, as Israel is. Christians
know that they could never keep the law, as they are only men, made of
corrupt flesh. Christians also know that man, being corrupted flesh,
could never atone for his sins. That is why God sent Christ, as the
perfect atonement. As Christians, we accept and know that is the price
PAID for our sins. As a Christian, we also know that this doesn't give
us license to sin. That attitude would be indicative of someone who
wasn't truely a Christian. All Christians have sinned and those still
living in the flesh will sin again. It's our corrupted nature. It's not
any more hypocritical than the track coach who tells his star runner to
try and shave 0.5 seconds off his 100m time, then failing to do the
same himself.

I'll won't bother providing cites for the above facts. Instead, I'll
just add you to the pinko file.

Tillman


Huh???? You appear to be saying that it is man's inherent nature to sin
therefore "that's just the way it is". Ok, so in your world God didn't
give man free will to choose NOT to lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc.

The real sin of most bible thumpers is claiming that they know what God
wants.

Yeah, and don't forget Son of a Preacher Man, by Dusty Springfield--who,
when you compare her original to Aretha's remake, *whupped Aretha's ass*,
bro, whupped her ass....

Rev. Ike knows what God wants: God assolutely wants him to have dat black &
tan Rolls and dat fur coat....
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll


Koz

In article , Proctologically Violated©® says...

Rev. Ike knows what God wants:

Damn, I haven't heard hide nor hair of 'ol Rev. Ikenkoter
since WWVA stopped doing C&W music.

JIm


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Huh???? You appear to be saying that it is man's inherent nature to sin
therefore "that's just the way it is". Ok, so in your world God didn't
give man free will to choose NOT to lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc.

the free will to choose does not give one the ability to do what they
chose.

I've got the free will to choose to levitate, but I'm not capable of
such a feat.

Tillman

On 2 Nov 2005 15:02:17 -0800, "tillius"
wrote:

I've got the free will to choose to levitate, but I'm not capable of
such a feat.

Keep trying.

[
Now consider the tortoise and the eagle.

The tortoise is a ground-living creature. It is impossible to live
nearer the ground without being under it. Its horizons are a few
inches away. It has about as good a turn of speed as you need to hunt
down a lettuce. It has survived while the rest of evolution flowed
past it by being, on the whole, no threat to anyone and too much
trouble to eat.

And then there is the eagle. A creature of the air and high places,
whose horizons go all the way to the edge of the world. Eyesight keen
enough to spot the rustle of some small and squeaky creature half a
mile away. All power, all control. Lightning death on wings. Talons
and claws enough to make a meal of anything smaller than it is and at
least take a hurried snack out of anything bigger.

And yet the eagle will sit for hours on the crag and survey the
kingdoms of the world until it spots a distant movement and then it
will focus, focus, focus on the small shell wobbling among the bushes
down there on the desert. And it will leap…

And a minute later the tortoise finds the world dropping away from it.
And it sees the world for the first time, no longer one inch from the
ground but five hundred feet above it, and it thinks: what a great
friend I have in the eagle.

And then the eagle lets go.

And almost always the tortoise plunges to its death. Everyone knows
why the tortoise does this. Gravity is a habit that is hard to shake
off. No one knows why the eagle does this. There’s good eating on a
tortoise but, considering the effort involved, there’s much better
eating on practically anything else. It’s simply the delight of eagles
to torment tortoises.

But of course, what the eagle does not realize is that it is
participating in a very crude form of natural selection.

One day a tortoise will learn how to fly.
]

From "Small Gods" by Terry Pratchett
--
Cliff

"tillius" wrote in message
oups.com...
lib-tard kunkel, in a fit of panicked desparation wailed:

One of the most blatant forms of hypocrisy is practiced by the
Bible-thumbers who advocate "Christian values" and violate biblical law
on a
daily basis.
Who makes up the majority of those Bible-thumping hypocrites? Why
conservatives, of course.

Actually, Christians are subject to the law, as Israel is. Christians
know that they could never keep the law, as they are only men, made of
corrupt flesh. Christians also know that man, being corrupted flesh,
could never atone for his sins. That is why God sent Christ, as the
perfect atonement. As Christians, we accept and know that is the price
PAID for our sins. As a Christian, we also know that this doesn't give
us license to sin. That attitude would be indicative of someone who
wasn't truely a Christian.

From my personal observation, those who claim to be Christians but "who
aren't truly a Christian" outnumber the other kind by a ratio of a couple of
million to one. Talking the talk but not walking the walk is the most basic
form of hypocrisy. The above is a classic example of talking the talk,
building a stairway to Heaven.

One doesn't need to be a "pinko" to recognize the hypocrisy that is pampant
in the christian faith.

In article ,
"John Kunkel" wrote:

"tillius" wrote in message
oups.com...
lib-tard kunkel, in a fit of panicked desparation wailed:

One of the most blatant forms of hypocrisy is practiced by the
Bible-thumbers who advocate "Christian values" and violate biblical law
on a
daily basis.
Who makes up the majority of those Bible-thumping hypocrites? Why
conservatives, of course.

Actually, Christians are subject to the law, as Israel is. Christians
know that they could never keep the law, as they are only men, made of
corrupt flesh. Christians also know that man, being corrupted flesh,
could never atone for his sins. That is why God sent Christ, as the
perfect atonement. As Christians, we accept and know that is the price
PAID for our sins. As a Christian, we also know that this doesn't give
us license to sin. That attitude would be indicative of someone who
wasn't truely a Christian.

From my personal observation, those who claim to be Christians but "who
aren't truly a Christian" outnumber the other kind by a ratio of a couple of
million to one. Talking the talk but not walking the walk is the most basic
form of hypocrisy. The above is a classic example of talking the talk,
building a stairway to Heaven.

One doesn't need to be a "pinko" to recognize the hypocrisy that is pampant
in the christian faith.

Nor need one be a "pinko" to recognize the rampant hypocrisy in
Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Shinto, Voudun, Atheism, Liberalism,
Conservatism, Socialism, Communism or any of the other many isms.
Hypocrisy seems to be rampant throughout humanity.

All these fractured views, makes it seem as though Man looks at the
universe through badly made PR-isms.

The people who seem least hypocritical about a god or gods, are
Agnostics, who, logically enough, don't know, seem to think perhaps
humans _can't_ know, and don't seem to care who knows it.

Who knows for sure? Magumbo Gombo, Tree Lord of the Congo, might turn
out to be top dog after all. And I suppose he/she/it* has his/her/its
own hypocrites to deal with.

* Not being well-versed in Magumboism or Gomboism, I can't really be
sure which gender applies, if any.

Just don't say "Hastur" three times in succession!

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 20:19:42 GMT, John Husvar
wrote:

Agnostics, who, logically enough, don't know, seem to think perhaps
humans _can't_ know, and don't seem to care who knows it.

Nobody has shown that it would matter in any case,
even if such oddness could be known.
In fact, nobody has been able to define what they are
claiming in the first place.
Just random noises as a basis for grabbing
power& loot.
--
Cliff

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 11:06:06 -0800, "John Kunkel"
wrote:

One doesn't need to be a "pinko" to recognize the hypocrisy that is pampant
in the christian faith.

Worse than the Moslems by far .... but both superstitious
kooks.

John Kunkel wrote:

From my personal observation, those who claim to be Christians but "who
aren't truly a Christian" outnumber the other kind by a ratio of a couple of
million to one.

Yes, God. You do get to decide who is a Christian and who isn't, and
what is part of your religion and what isn't.

( LOL! )

Who would have thought that God would go by the name of Kunkel and have
a google e-mail account.

"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...
John Kunkel wrote:

From my personal observation, those who claim to be Christians but "who
aren't truly a Christian" outnumber the other kind by a ratio of a couple
of million to one.

Yes, God. You do get to decide who is a Christian and who isn't, and what
is part of your religion and what isn't.

( LOL! )

Who would have thought that God would go by the name of Kunkel and have a
google e-mail account.

Don't know about going by the name of Kunkel, but it seems like either God
or Satan must love Google.

On 2 Nov 2005 12:34:39 -0800, "tillius"
wrote:

lib-tard kunkel, in a fit of panicked desparation wailed:

One of the most blatant forms of hypocrisy is practiced by the
Bible-thumbers who advocate "Christian values" and violate biblical law on a
daily basis.
Who makes up the majority of those Bible-thumping hypocrites? Why
conservatives, of course.

Actually, Christians are subject to the law, as Israel is. Christians
know that they could never keep the law, as they are only men, made of
corrupt flesh. Christians also know that man, being corrupted flesh,
could never atone for his sins. That is why God sent Christ, as the
perfect atonement. As Christians, we accept and know that is the price
PAID for our sins. As a Christian, we also know that this doesn't give
us license to sin. That attitude would be indicative of someone who
wasn't truely a Christian. All Christians have sinned and those still
living in the flesh will sin again. It's our corrupted nature. It's not
any more hypocritical than the track coach who tells his star runner to
try and shave 0.5 seconds off his 100m time, then failing to do the
same himself.

I'll won't bother providing cites for the above facts. Instead, I'll
just add you to the pinko file.

Tillman

Pinging BottleBob ..... and others G.
--
Cliff

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 03:41:04 -0500, Cliff wrote:

On 2 Nov 2005 12:34:39 -0800, "tillius"
wrote:

lib-tard kunkel, in a fit of panicked desparation wailed:

One of the most blatant forms of hypocrisy is practiced by the
Bible-thumbers who advocate "Christian values" and violate biblical law on a
daily basis.
Who makes up the majority of those Bible-thumping hypocrites? Why
conservatives, of course.

Actually, Christians are subject to the law, as Israel is. Christians
know that they could never keep the law, as they are only men, made of
corrupt flesh. Christians also know that man, being corrupted flesh,
could never atone for his sins. That is why God sent Christ, as the
perfect atonement. As Christians, we accept and know that is the price
PAID for our sins. As a Christian, we also know that this doesn't give
us license to sin. That attitude would be indicative of someone who
wasn't truely a Christian. All Christians have sinned and those still
living in the flesh will sin again. It's our corrupted nature. It's not
any more hypocritical than the track coach who tells his star runner to
try and shave 0.5 seconds off his 100m time, then failing to do the
same himself.

I'll won't bother providing cites for the above facts. Instead, I'll
just add you to the pinko file.

Tillman

Pinging BottleBob ..... and others G.


What's the matter? The Tillman nutball is a self spanker.

Lets just take three moral issues.

When it comes to family values the States from the bible belt have the
highest divorce rate, even California has a lower divorce rate than
Texas.
http://www.divorcereform.org/94staterates.html

Republican states also have a higher suicide rate.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwr...m#00001329.gif

When it comes to abortion the rate tends to go down when the Democrats
are in the white house and up when Republicans are there. Its almost
as if people are less willing to bring children into a world dominated
by hypocritical scumbags:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in524681.shtml

Guido wrote in
:

Lets just take three moral issues.

When it comes to family values the States from the bible belt have the
highest divorce rate, even California has a lower divorce rate than
Texas.
http://www.divorcereform.org/94staterates.html

Interestingly, the states where divorce is lowest are also the states
where Catholicism is the domininant religion, except for North Dakota
where Evangelical Lutherans prevail. There really is no "Bible Belt". The
so called bible belt states seem to be the ones where Southern Baptists
are the dominant religion. And it would appear that Southern Baptists
have the highest divorce rate.

http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#Number1

Catholics traditionally vote Democrat, but obviously many voted for Bush.
Clearly many Southern Baptists voted for Clinton. So I don't see how
religion is inextricably linked to conservitism.


Republican states also have a higher suicide rate.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwr...m#00001329.gif

That data is from 1994. So looking at an election map from 1992 it
appears quite the opposite is true. The reality is that the party that
carried a state in a presidential election has nothing at all to do with
the suicide rate. Nevada had the highest rate. The Democrats carried
Nevada in 92 and in 96. So what? I'm guessing that Las Vegas with it's
gambling, drugs, alcohol abuse, and prostitution have more to do with the
high suicide rate.


When it comes to abortion the rate tends to go down when the Democrats
are in the white house and up when Republicans are there. Its almost
as if people are less willing to bring children into a world dominated
by hypocritical scumbags:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in524681.shtml

Did you link to the right article? I found an old article about a study
which is now five years old that said nothing about abortion rates under
Republicans vs. Democrats. There did seem to be a correlation to income
though.


--

Dan

On 2 Nov 2005 12:34:39 -0800, "tillius"
wrote:

lib-tard kunkel, in a fit of panicked desparation wailed:

One of the most blatant forms of hypocrisy is practiced by the
Bible-thumbers who advocate "Christian values" and violate biblical law on a
daily basis.
Who makes up the majority of those Bible-thumping hypocrites? Why
conservatives, of course.

Actually, Christians are subject to the law, as Israel is. Christians
know that they could never keep the law, as they are only men, made of
corrupt flesh. Christians also know that man, being corrupted flesh,
could never atone for his sins. That is why God sent Christ, as the
perfect atonement. As Christians, we accept and know that is the price
PAID for our sins. As a Christian, we also know that this doesn't give
us license to sin. That attitude would be indicative of someone who
wasn't truely a Christian. All Christians have sinned and those still
living in the flesh will sin again. It's our corrupted nature. It's not
any more hypocritical than the track coach who tells his star runner to
try and shave 0.5 seconds off his 100m time, then failing to do the
same himself.

I'll won't bother providing cites for the above facts. Instead, I'll
just add you to the pinko file.

Tillman


First, sorry for the cross-posting

Second, there is no god. Except in the imagination of individuals who
can't handle reality. And the reality is: we DID evolve from lower
life forms (aka apes), which in turn evolved from even lower life
forms. No all-powerful entity created us, or the Earth, or the
universe. The whole works evolved over billions of years.

Third, get used to it...because that is the first, last, and ONLY
truth going...



BK

----

"Religion doesn't unite us, it divides us. Don't believe me? Just look
at all the different forms of religion in the world, and what happens
when they disagree..."

Of course we evolved from lower life forms. That's how God did it. Are you
so arrogant you can decide what God can or cannot do?

I can't be certain whether there is a God or not... but I'm not so arrogant
as to claim there is not. That's only for fools. Suppose you are wrong?

George Willer

"Barney-Killer" wrote in message
...
On 2 Nov 2005 12:34:39 -0800, "tillius"
wrote:

lib-tard kunkel, in a fit of panicked desparation wailed:

One of the most blatant forms of hypocrisy is practiced by the
Bible-thumbers who advocate "Christian values" and violate biblical law
on a
daily basis.
Who makes up the majority of those Bible-thumping hypocrites? Why
conservatives, of course.

Actually, Christians are subject to the law, as Israel is. Christians
know that they could never keep the law, as they are only men, made of
corrupt flesh. Christians also know that man, being corrupted flesh,
could never atone for his sins. That is why God sent Christ, as the
perfect atonement. As Christians, we accept and know that is the price
PAID for our sins. As a Christian, we also know that this doesn't give
us license to sin. That attitude would be indicative of someone who
wasn't truely a Christian. All Christians have sinned and those still
living in the flesh will sin again. It's our corrupted nature. It's not
any more hypocritical than the track coach who tells his star runner to
try and shave 0.5 seconds off his 100m time, then failing to do the
same himself.

I'll won't bother providing cites for the above facts. Instead, I'll
just add you to the pinko file.

Tillman


First, sorry for the cross-posting

Second, there is no god. Except in the imagination of individuals who
can't handle reality. And the reality is: we DID evolve from lower
life forms (aka apes), which in turn evolved from even lower life
forms. No all-powerful entity created us, or the Earth, or the
universe. The whole works evolved over billions of years.

Third, get used to it...because that is the first, last, and ONLY
truth going...



BK

----

"Religion doesn't unite us, it divides us. Don't believe me? Just look
at all the different forms of religion in the world, and what happens
when they disagree..."

"George Willer" wrote

Of course we evolved from lower life forms. That's how God did it. Are
you
so arrogant you can decide what God can or cannot do?

There are many who are... see below

I can't be certain whether there is a God or not... but I'm not so
arrogant
as to claim there is not. That's only for fools. Suppose you are wrong?

If he is wrong, he will get to enjoy the treatment of the pseudoChristians
as they are hoist on their own petards. Gotta love a group whose belief
system ****s on them...

Dan


--
"... our constitution cites 'one nation under God'."

- Karen Hughes, on tour in Egypt, September, 2005

"You can support the troops but not the president."

-- House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Tex.


"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a
clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."

-- Karen Hughes


"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to
explain to us what his exit strategy is."

-- George W. Bush

"Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony."

- Morpheus