|
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 07:00:27 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote: Cliffie, get a life, or at least find a new one line answer. lib-turds always a laugh a minute at the stupidity. Marc I like that sig line that debating with liberals is like clubbing baby seals. It's just too easy, and quickly becomes boring. Or something like that. But it IS descriptive of debating with liberals. And when they can't cite any facts to back up their position, they say some ootsey cutesy one liner or attack personally. I just don't understand it. Everyone can pick their own political party. The Democrats are so envious of the Republicans, yet they fail to grasp the concept that they can actually BE a Republican. Just go out and get a job. Risk all you own to start a business. Learn to play golf. Give up the whining that when Republicans handle the budget, it is theft; but when the Democrats overtax and give it to people who don't want to work, it's called humanitarianism. Hell, rich Republicans contribute 85% or more of all monies collected by the IRS anyway. AND, Democrats are eligible for all the tax breaks that Republicans use, it is just that they won't take the time to learn them. Or that they are jealous that saving 5% on taxes brings a person with a million dollar a year income more than they will get with the same deduction. So get off your duff and make a million and have all that extra money. It's simple. It's only the old 80/20 rule of society that goes back to when they used rocks for money. At any time, 20% of the people have 80% of the money. If you confiscate all money, and redistribute it evenly, in a very short time, 20% of the people will have 80% of the money. Prostitution is not the oldest profession, as some people claim. Sales is. And what is sales, but some energetic ambitious Republican getting money out of some couch potato Democrat? IT'S NOT FAIR! IT'S NOT FAIR! Well, no ****, Sherlock. So cope. You're an adult. Get out there and get some for yourself. Griping about things in America is like going to a free buffet, sitting there and not getting any food, waiting to be served, and then leaving and complaining about how bad it was. Everyone has the right to be happy successful and secure. And the means are located at the end of their own two arms. Not in any government who sells them the idea that they will take care of them by taking money from the evil rich people and giving it to the downtrodden. I prefer nature. If you don't get out there and work for it every day, you just don't eat. And I don't want to hear any sad stories of disabled people. I am permanently totally disabled, and still work. I know blind people and people in wheelchairs that work. It's all in the attitude. Some want to do all they can. And some want to sit and watch PPV WWF Wrestling, scream, "Where's mah checccck" and call Meals on Wheels for free food AND delivery. And then there's Cliff and his ilk that obviously want to do nothing but screech all day. No time left to work. Why don't they at least get a job writing for a newspaper or publication where they can share all their vast intellect and solutions for the salvation of mankind? Because they're not into solutions, but just like to hear their own screeching. BTW, I get SS based on money I put in while working, and a union pension from a job I chose as a career because I knew it had benefits. And I still horsetrade for spending money. My golden years are going to be spent enjoying what I make. Catastrophic illness can't wipe me out because I have structured all my assets in trusts that can't be touched. Something anyone can do. And when I did have a catastrophic illness, cabgx5 avr, insurance covered all but $3,000 out of $230,000. And that was paid for by my paying insurance premiums for 30 years. Something any Democrat or Republican can do. RANT OFF. I feel better. Where's mah checcccck? Steve Bravo!! Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
Cliff wrote:
On 30 Oct 2005 12:58:42 -0800, "Artie" wrote: The End of Pensions By ROGER LOWENSTEIN Published: October 30, 2005 I. THE LATEST FINANCIAL DEBACLE Real big snip... Pensions.... come on! I would like to see a show of hands here to anyone who has been in one company for 30 years. Those days are over. Given that scenario, a fully company funded pention plan is pretty lame. I'm a big fan of the 401k (even though thru a special circumstance a previous employer was able to steal some). The beauty is the employer matches some money and you take it when you go. I worked for one employer who had a company pension plan that when you were terminated (or layed off), the money was redistributed to the remaining employees fund. That was great for the "inner circle" of employees (and owners) who never left. They as most small to mid shops, had a high turn over. $$$ Just let me pay my own way. Btw, I almost choked when I read the autoworkers are whining because they were going to be forced to pay almost 15% of their healthcare costs. ROFLMAO! Here in LA, most of us pay 60-75% of the monthly healthcare costs. Myself and spouse, no kids = $600 a month for a PPO. My employer paid only $175.It's 40% cheaper though if you go to an HMO. I prefer plan where the doctors names have a couple vowels. -- Bill |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
Pensions.... come on! I would like to see a show of hands here to
anyone who has been in one company for 30 years. Those days are over. Yeah. It's a shame though. It would probably be a different story if most Americans weren't entitlement minded fast-food-fattys and actually took pride in what they did and expected to earn their pay. Kind of difficult for an employer to 'share the wealth' when 80% of their employee's are barely being 30% productive and are looking for an excuse to put the blame on anyone but themselves so they can light up a lawsuite. And you're right, let me pay my own way. That way, I'll have plenty to help out my brother who needs a helping hand getting back on his feet if he stumbles and falls. He certainly deserves better than being turned into an entitlement slave. Just my $0.02! |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
In article . com, tillius
says... Because the Federal Government, regardless of whether it's run by Repulicans or lib-tards, will do a much worse job than the average responsible American will at using it constructively. This is actually untrue. Medicare has the lowest overhead rate of any insurance program. What you *really* mean to be saying is, it will do a much worse job because they will be giving a lot of *your* money to somebody else. You talk a good line but what happens when your three years of long-term care gets used up? You'll be clamoring and blubbering to get your entitelments, that's what. FWIW three years isn't 'long term.' Granted it's better than nothing, that's for sure. Nursing homes don't *quite* roll the broke folks out into the road in their wheelchairs. But almost. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
OT: Was Pensions-bla-bla-bla
In article , F. George McDuffee
says... In the specific case of the defined benefit corporate pensions, what exactly are the people to do? In good faith, the employees accepted management promises that if they would defer immediate cash compensation for their labor, the money would be invested to provide a pension with medical care after they retired. Well, one thing they can do is get certified as a class, and start a class action lawsuit against their employer. Then once they win, they have it on record that yanking somebody's defined benefit plan and replacing it with a cash balance substitute is called "age descrimination." Spank spank. They get their benefits back. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
On 1 Nov 2005 06:11:13 -0800, "tillius"
wrote: Poor scared little hawke. Scared life will get too difficult for him to handle so he wants to make sure big-daddy gov is there to take care of things so he don't have to worry his little lib-tard head about it and deal with real life. You area bit of an idiot. It shows quite clearly. I don't need the safety net as a way of life. You say that now. What about the next day? You never know .... you might have a brain far* again and it would leak out your ears. I'm all in favor of safety nets for those who do fall on bad times, You just contradicted yourself. just to get them through. Private safety nets are a better idea than the govt. corrupted ones. And you are going to have those that need them personally pay for them after the fact exactly how? Where's the profit in it & for whom, exactly? I take exception with lumping VA benefits in with welfare. Why? It's welfare too. If a man serves his country and is injured in that service, that's the least we can do. HUH? But it's his own lookout ...... don't you want people taking personal responsability for the outcome of their own decisions? Tillman That's just a simple anagram for"Mall Nit". HTH -- Clif |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
On 1 Nov 2005 06:23:29 -0800, "tillius"
wrote: hawke's lib-tarded dribble: Unfortunately for you that's only going to happen when you have a health crisis like a stroke or Alzheimer's or the like that drains you of all your assets that you were counting on and leaves you penniless. I dunno. Seems I plan for emergencies. It's called not spending every friggin dime you have on fast food, worthless crap and credit card debt. It's called catastrophic medical insurance. Which will terminate the day after you cannot afford or miss a premium, such as being very ill. It's called long term care insurance. Which will terminate the day after you cannot afford or miss a premium, such as being very ill. And your copays & deductables are what? Add it all up .... It's called building an emergency fund. Which is always nice to have but always quite finite. Have you checked costs lately? Nothing has been done to contain them by the neocons .... quite the opposite ..... just another hidden tax hike. -- Cliff |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 07:00:27 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote: But it IS descriptive of debating with liberals. You probably cannot "debate" without stolen blogs. And when they can't cite any facts to back up their position, they say some ootsey cutesy one liner or attack personally. Hammers get your attention if they are large enough. Reason & facts clearly do not. Found those"WMDs" yet? snicker -- Cliff |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 16:44:18 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote: BTW, I get SS based on money I put in while working, and a union pension from a job I chose as a career because I knew it had benefits. Bravo!! Sounds like he's on welfare too. -- Cliff |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
This is actually untrue. Medicare has the lowest overhead
rate of any insurance program. No. I said "average responsible American". What you *really* mean to be saying is, it will do a much worse job because they will be giving a lot of *your* money to somebody else. No. I said "average responsible American". You talk a good line but what happens when your three years of long-term care gets used up? See Below. You'll be clamoring and blubbering to get your entitelments, that's what. No. See Below FWIW three years isn't 'long term.' Granted it's better than nothing, that's for sure. Nursing homes don't *quite* roll the broke folks out into the road in their wheelchairs. But almost. Ever bother doing a little research on LTC? Let me help you out: 50% of people will never need long term care 30% of people will need long term care at home provided solely by family and friends 15% of people will need long term care in an assisted living facility 10% of people will need long term care in a skilled nursing facility (nursing home) Avg. cost of LTC care in home by skilled nursing caregiver $32,000/Yr (2005) Avg. Cost of LTC in assisted living facility $36,000 (2005) Avg. cost of LTC in nursing home $72,000 (2005) 70% of persons needing long term care will need less than 3 months The average length of LTC is 2.5 years (home, assisted living facilty, and Nursing Home combined) What do I do when the insurance runs out? I've earned and saved a sufficient amount that I could purchase an annuity product annuitized over my life and structured to adjust for inflation that would pay any LTC costs (including nursing home) that were needed over my 3 years coverage. Here, let me be a good neighbor and provide you sources for my stats: http://www.aahsa.org/ http://www.aoa.dhhs.gov/ http://consumerlawpage.com/article/insure.shtml http://elderweb.com/ http://www.heller.brandeis.edu/national/ltcr499.htm http://www.hhp.umd.edu/ http://www.longtermcarelink.net/frames/lm_research.html http://www.ltciguide.com/LongTermCare/Facts.html http://membership.hiaa.org/pdfs/poli...utiveStudy.pdf http://www.metlife.com/Applications/...,P1856,00.html http://www.milbank.org/0008stone/ http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/health/ http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/1...ness/67173.htm http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/consumer/...icapltc05.html http://thyroid.about.com/b/a/087073.htm Tillman |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
Cliff the lib-tard dribbled:
You say that now. What about the next day? You never know .... you might have a brain far* again and it would leak out your ears. see my earlier response to the other lib-tard: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...8d5e5f3?hl=en& You just contradicted yourself. wrong, you're just too feeble minded to get it And you are going to have those that need them personally pay for them after the fact exactly how? Where's the profit in it & for whom, exactly? it's not about profit, it's about REAL compassion, something lib-tards just cant grasp I take exception with lumping VA benefits in with welfare. Why? It's welfare too. If a man serves his country and is injured in that service, that's the least we can do. HUH? But it's his own lookout ...... don't you want people taking personal responsability for the outcome of their own decisions? Again, a lib-tard who just can't grasp duty, compassion and personal responsibility. Tillman |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
more lib-tard dribble:
Which will terminate the day after you cannot afford or miss a premium, such as being very ill. Which will terminate the day after you cannot afford or miss a premium, such as being very ill. And your copays & deductables are what? Actually - no. Or course, if I didn't plan for emergencies, I wouldn't have a minimum of 6 months expenses in my liquid emergency fund and that might be a concern, but I find it far wiser not to waste my resources on frivolities you lib-tards are so fond of so I can protect my family and future. and my copays and deductables are within my budget :) I'm gonna have to fix this kill file timing - getting tired of giving you the old pinko Tillman |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
In article .com, tillius
says... 30% of people will need long term care at home provided solely by family and friends This is when you really find out who your friends are. They tend to evaporate when the crunch happens. Sometimes family too. Are you counting on them? Consider that by relying on them, you *are* putting a substantial burden on them. My approach: off to the ice floe with me. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
"SteveB" wrote in message news:UpL9f.43287$fE5.14350@fed1read06... | Cliffie, get a life, or at least find a new one line answer. | lib-turds always a laugh a minute at the stupidity. | Marc | | I like that sig line that debating with liberals is like clubbing baby | seals. It's just too easy, and quickly becomes boring. | | Or something like that. | | But it IS descriptive of debating with liberals. And when they can't cite | any facts to back up their position, they say some ootsey cutesy one liner | or attack personally. SNIP| | RANT OFF. | | I feel better. Where's mah checcccck? | | Steve Your check is in the mail...... I apologize for the crack I made at you awhile back on some forgotten subject. You have obviously pondered and planned your past and future well and I commend you not just for your nice piece of the American pie, but an awesome rant as well! |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
Nope - don't want to burden anyone. I believe the rest of my plan
addresses that. Of course, if it comes down to it, my kids can decide if they want to spend the big-ole-chunk-o-cash on the annuity for the assisted living, nursing home, or in home care if my insurance were to run out, or if they'd rather be more involved in care for old dad or mom out and keep more of what we're leaving to them or if they'd rather focus on their own health and raising the grandkids. I've been blessed so there's enough either way, and it's all set up in the living will and will. Personally, since Dad's already gone and mom doesn't have substantial resources, if she needed what we could provide here at home, I'd just as soon have her around here and get some help in so me and the wife can still take care of our selves and the kids. Tillman |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
Hmm - and I guess I'll have to start just calling you a lib, since you
appear to be showing signs of not being the 'tard' part. Are you counting on them? Consider that by relying on them, you *are* putting a substantial burden on them. My approach: off to the ice floe with me. actually seems pretty responsible. Tillman |
OT -- Cliff is a Republican sent to make Democrats look stupid
Cliff wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/ma...pagewanted=all Hey, why don't we just pass a law that everyone will be rich and happy? |
OT: Was Pensions-bla-bla-bla
On 1 Nov 2005 13:15:19 -0800, jim rozen
wrote: In article , F. George McDuffee says... In the specific case of the defined benefit corporate pensions, what exactly are the people to do? In good faith, the employees accepted management promises that if they would defer immediate cash compensation for their labor, the money would be invested to provide a pension with medical care after they retired. Well, one thing they can do is get certified as a class, and start a class action lawsuit against their employer. Then once they win, they have it on record that yanking somebody's defined benefit plan and replacing it with a cash balance substitute is called "age descrimination." Spank spank. They get their benefits back. Jim ========== An excellent Civics 101 response, however… Unfortunatly, even if you win a class action lawsuit you won't get any money if the defendant doesn't have any assets, i.e. you can't get blood out of a turnip. Only slightly in jest, "Corporation" is a Latin word meaning "ain't nobody here but us chickens, ain't nobody here at all." Through a variety of dodges and devices, almost all of the real assets of most U. S. corporations have been dissipated or converted, leaving at best a husk and in the main a huge pile of [worthless] debt. Under normal circumstances the stockholders, officers and directors of a corporation cannot be held liable for the debts of a corporation. The most that they can lose is the value of stock they own [which is the reason for the corporate form of organization]. One of a very few exceptions is a criminal and/or civil action brought under the RICO [Racketeering Influenced and Corrupt Organizations] Act, that allows the total recapture of all profits generated from anyone that received them, even the defense attorneys, if they were paid from the proceeds of the criminal activities of the organization. A catch-22 is that many of the corporations currently preparing to give their employees a huge Christmas goose, such as the airlines, are largely owned [but not controlled] by their employees under a so-called ESOP [Employee Stock Ownership Program]. This was the "hook" used in the previous rounds of wage and benefit cuts, whereby much of the labor costs were paid for in worthless paper [stock] rather than "coin of the realm." In these circumstances, the employees and retirees are operationally suing themselves. It is the height of irony that one of the few known fully solvent pension funds is the Teamster's Central States Pension Fund, widely assumed to have been controlled by the Mafia until it was "rescued" by the U. S. government. I am led to the conclusion that it is safer to do business on a handshake with the Mafia than with U.S. corporate management, even with "due diligence" contracts, outside auditors and bonding. Even with the establishment of the three "predicate felonies" required to initiate a civil or criminal RICO suit, I feel it is highly doubtful any such suits will be sustained in court as too many of the politicians, including the judges, have the "tainted" money in their pockets. |
OT -- Cliff is a Republican sent to make Democrats look stupid
On 1 Nov 2005 17:40:36 -0800, "Dave" wrote:
Cliff wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/ma...pagewanted=all Hey, why don't we just pass a law that everyone will be rich and happy? You mean the "no investor left behind act" of 2005? |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
In article , Omega
wrote: On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:41:06 -0500, Cliff wrote: |On 30 Oct 2005 12:58:42 -0800, "Artie" wrote: Cliff old boy, how about we just get rid off all corporations? And also make everyone work for either the government or small businesses? And you get to make one choice for a company which you have to work for all your life. That way your pension is guaranteed. But then our GNP would be more like India. Of course we could have a government pension, like Social Security. Ever notice that when the Democrats ran Congress that they raped Social Security for funds so that they could have pork barrel projects with which to bribe the voters? And Congress exempted itself from Socialist Insecurity: they have their own _actual_ pension plan, totally independent from the Ponzi Scheme that SS is. The rest of us are not allowed to opt out, and face felony charges if we don't "contribute" to this pyramid scheme. --Tim May |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
"carl mciver" wrote in message k.net... "SteveB" wrote in message news:UpL9f.43287$fE5.14350@fed1read06... | Cliffie, get a life, or at least find a new one line answer. | lib-turds always a laugh a minute at the stupidity. | Marc | | I like that sig line that debating with liberals is like clubbing baby | seals. It's just too easy, and quickly becomes boring. | | Or something like that. | | But it IS descriptive of debating with liberals. And when they can't cite | any facts to back up their position, they say some ootsey cutesy one liner | or attack personally. SNIP| | RANT OFF. | | I feel better. Where's mah checcccck? | | Steve Your check is in the mail...... I apologize for the crack I made at you awhile back on some forgotten subject. You have obviously pondered and planned your past and future well and I commend you not just for your nice piece of the American pie, but an awesome rant as well! You're welcome. One thing about Usenet I like is its short memory span. A guy can be a perfect prick one week, and then, change and redeem himself. Kind of like life. Everyone's a prick at least once in their life. It's just whether or not they choose to stay that way or grow out of it that is the important part. I've done a lot I don't care to talk about or even at times remember. What the hell was I thinking? And it all brings me to today. Life is good. We all have the chance to grow and change. Take a chance. Steve |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
In article .com,
tillius wrote: And Congress exempted itself from Socialist Insecurity: they have their own _actual_ pension plan, totally independent from the Ponzi Scheme that SS is. The rest of us are not allowed to opt out, and face felony charges if we don't "contribute" to this pyramid scheme. Well, there is one way to opt out. You can go out and get yourself ordained, then opt out for reasons of faith. Nonsense. I looked at this very carefully in 1975. Yes, 1975. A bunch of books had come out, sold at my local "Liberty" bookstore, in Mountain View, CA. The idea was to escape SS and income taxes by taking one of the various "vows of poverty" or the like. Well, it doesn't work that way. A bunch of IRS cases have put a bunch of "ordained priests" in prison. (Do I support this? No. But consult the court records.) I won't do it. It would be a mockery of my faith to become ordained for that purpose. It wouldn't make no nevermind to me, as I don't believe in fairies and elves and goddesses and virgin marys and jesuses and all that tommyrot, but it just doesn't work as simply as you describe. --Tim May |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
In article , TDKozan
wrote: Tim May wrote: snip And Congress exempted itself from Socialist Insecurity: they have their own _actual_ pension plan, totally independent from the Ponzi Scheme that SS is. snip again Not exactly and not lately: http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp Unless I'm missing something again and not for the first time. " Do Members of Congress Pay Social Security Taxes? Lawmakers do pay 8 percent of their salaries into their pension system, although this only compensates for about 1/5 of the typical lifetime benefit. We cover the rest as taxpayers. Member of Congress began to pay into Social Security in 1983, as part of a government-wide pension overhaul. In addition, Members of Congress DO NOT draw the ³same pension² as their pay in the last year of office as suggested in a rumor circulating on the Internet; only federal judges do that under the term ³retirement pay.² Still, the formula is quite generous, and, with 20-25 years, a Member of Congress could retire with up to 80 percent of his or her salary replaced. Of course, the only cap on how fast their benefits rise is the rate of increase in CPI. For this reason, Congressional pensions can and frequently do exceed a Member¹s final salary, but only after a few years in retirement, when COLAS begin to kick in. In the final analysis, Congressional pension benefits are 2-3 times more generous than what a similarly-salaried executive could expect to receive upon retiring from the private sector. That ought to be enough to concern any taxpayer. " --Tim May |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
In article 05X9f.47499$fE5.34460@fed1read06, SteveB
wrote: "Tim May" wrote The rest of us are not allowed to opt out, and face felony charges if we don't "contribute" to this pyramid scheme. --Tim May So, what keeps you from starting your own retirement program? One that you control. Direct. Monitor. Supervise. Steer. You can't opt out of SS, but you can sure do a lot with your own money. Or is it more important that you buy beer and cigarettes? Idiot. I invested my own money beginning in 1970 and retired in 1986, when I was 34. (But I was also forced to pay into a SS plan that I had no desire whatsoever to pay into.) So I would guess that I have right now more money than any 20 of your kind will see in his entire life. My point about Social Security is that is nonvoluntary, takes money from even those who have no desire to particiapate, is a Ponzi scheme of the worst kind, and that Congress has essentially exempted itself from this plan for most of its existence. Most liberals who support SS need a trip to the showers and then a conversion into smoke. --Tim May |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
Have the democrats ever found their balls? You know, the ones that they lost
during Vietnam.... Well Said! Tillman |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
And Congress exempted itself from Socialist Insecurity: they have their
own _actual_ pension plan, totally independent from the Ponzi Scheme that SS is. The rest of us are not allowed to opt out, and face felony charges if we don't "contribute" to this pyramid scheme. Well, there is one way to opt out. You can go out and get yourself ordained, then opt out for reasons of faith. I won't do it. It would be a mockery of my faith to become ordained for that purpose. If I was called to the ministry, I'd opt out for that reason. If the law permitted it without the ordainment, I'd opt out. I know a lib-tard locally who is an 'ordained minister of spirituality' who opted out. He worships himself. Tillman |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as YouSpend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
Tim May wrote:
snip And Congress exempted itself from Socialist Insecurity: they have their own _actual_ pension plan, totally independent from the Ponzi Scheme that SS is. snip again Not exactly and not lately: http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp Unless I'm missing something again and not for the first time. TK -- Cogito ergo bibo |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
"Tim May" wrote The rest of us are not allowed to opt out, and face felony charges if we don't "contribute" to this pyramid scheme. --Tim May So, what keeps you from starting your own retirement program? One that you control. Direct. Monitor. Supervise. Steer. You can't opt out of SS, but you can sure do a lot with your own money. Or is it more important that you buy beer and cigarettes? Steve |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
"tillius" wrote in message ups.com... Poor scared little hawke. Scared life will get too difficult for him to handle so he wants to make sure big-daddy gov is there to take care of things so he don't have to worry his little lib-tard head about it and deal with real life. I don't need the safety net as a way of life. I'm all in favor of safety nets for those who do fall on bad times, just to get them through. Private safety nets are a better idea than the govt. corrupted ones. I take exception with lumping VA benefits in with welfare. If a man serves his country and is injured in that service, that's the least we can do. Tillman Yeah, but the VA is a government run safety net isn't it? So that means you wouldn't be for it. Why not ask private interests to take care of our disabled soldiers? I'm sure they would be glad to help and would do a much better job than the government, don't you think? I think they could make a lot of money at it. Hawke |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
"Tim May" wrote Idiot. I invested my own money beginning in 1970 and retired in 1986, when I was 34. (But I was also forced to pay into a SS plan that I had no desire whatsoever to pay into.) If you made so much money, why are you complaining about the small amount you would have paid into SS in only 16 years of work? Please explain that math. If you paid THAT much in, you didn't have a competent tax advisor, bookeeper, or financial advisor who could have netted you a lot more. But then, you probably were so smart you did all that yourself, and didn't trust anyone anyway. Right? So I would guess that I have right now more money than any 20 of your kind will see in his entire life. In addition to being a genius, you are also clairvoyant. My kind? Please tell me what "my kind" means. My point about Social Security is that is nonvoluntary, takes money from even those who have no desire to particiapate, is a Ponzi scheme of the worst kind, and that Congress has essentially exempted itself from this plan for most of its existence. If you are so secure, what are you so angry about? A man of your wealth and security should not worry himself about such trivial matters. Most liberals who support SS need a trip to the showers and then a conversion into smoke. I'm sorry. I do not understand that sentence. --Tim May |
OT: Was Pensions-bla-bla-bla
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 09:27:04 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote: In the specific case of the defined benefit corporate pensions, what exactly are the people to do? In good faith, the employees accepted management promises that if they would defer immediate cash compensation for their labor, the money would be invested to provide a pension with medical care after they retired. It is not their fault that management either never invested the money (i.e. stole it) or invested in it non-productive areas. If the abrogation of defined benefit pensions by corporate America though sham chapter 11 bankruptcys is allowed to proceed, particularly when combined with an implosion of the domestic real-estate sector caused by elimination of the mortgage interest deduction, the effect on the stock/bond markets and financial structure will be catastrophic. It is only a short step from the disavowal of corporate pensions to the abrogation of obligations under the Social Security act, and then only a shot hop to the invalidation of U.S. bonds and a currency recall. (The government appears to be ginning up justification for this by the stories about North Korea's counterfeiting of the 100$ bill.) Is the next step to blame the people for keeping their retirement funds in stocks, bonds, money market accounts and U.S. paper money? Are the only people "worthy" of a comfortable retirement those who bought and held gold? (If so they had better put some of their retirement funds in guns and ammunition….) America of 2005 is a very 'brittle" society/culture with little flexibility or adaptability by most of its residents/institutions. The large majority of the American population lives in mega-urban areas, which as New Orleans proved, are "death traps," if anything goes wrong (and it always does - the question is "when" not "if"). We seem to have two groups here, both of which in my not so humble opinion need to step back and carefully examine their tacit assumptions about the typical individual within American society, American cultural values, and the current and likely short term future American economy/infrastructure. It is wisely observed that there are only a very few things you can do by yourself, one of which is to die. No matter how well you prepare and no matter how much determination you have, at the end of you life you will be dependent on others, if only for your funeral/burial. At the other end of life, the young must depend on one or more adults for food, shelter and clothing (and hopefully education). Even during their best years as adults, most people will find they must rely on others from time to time for services such as medical care, emergency services (fire and police) and common defense which they cannot provide for themselves (in any meaningful way). On the other hand there is the compulsion of increasing numbers of people in positions of authority, as government and as employers, to meddle in every aspect of life from the amount and type foods people eat, what types of activities they engage in, even to how tight they wear their shoes. In itself this is a major PITA, but even more egregious is the rapidly increasing trend of these people to micromanage every aspect of individual activity while ignoring activities for which they are accountable (i.e. activities for which they have both the capability and responsibility to act on). A few of these are uncontrolled immigration, de-industrialization, financial irregularities, economic perturbations (such as the dot cons, derivatives, currency speculation and the real-estate bubble) and physical/social infrastructure deterioration. The reality is that the days of the "rugged individualist" have long been over, if they were ever here in the first place. On careful examination of the historical record, it appears this myth developed because of what we refer to in the trade as "file drawer bias." That is of 1000 erstwhile "rugged individualists," 999 died in the attempt, and the sole survivor told their story. There is also the "the older I get, the better I was" phenomena. GmcD Crossposted to the boring folks in alt.aol.tricks G. -- Cliff |
OT: Was Pensions-bla-bla-bla
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 09:27:04 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote: In the specific case of the defined benefit corporate pensions, what exactly are the people to do? In good faith, the employees accepted management promises that if they would defer immediate cash compensation for their labor, the money would be invested to provide a pension with medical care after they retired. It is not their fault that management either never invested the money (i.e. stole it) or invested in it non-productive areas. If the abrogation of defined benefit pensions by corporate America though sham chapter 11 bankruptcys is allowed to proceed, particularly when combined with an implosion of the domestic real-estate sector caused by elimination of the mortgage interest deduction, the effect on the stock/bond markets and financial structure will be catastrophic. In effect and on a macro scale such defaults are just another hidden tax on the employee -- look at the net cash flows over time. This tax just strikes employees at what sometimes looks like random times to random employees. The very wealthy continue to get even more wealthy. It's not very likely that many of the CEOs, board members, insiders or investment bankers took a huge loss either. -- Cliff |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
Al Franken, Hillary, Kennedy, Caught!
Jim Meyers Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2005 A new book by a top investigative journalist exposes the blatant hypocrisy of liberals who loudly espouse principles they disregard in their own personal lives. In "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy," Hoover Fellow Peter Schweizer reveals the glaring contradictions between the public stances and real-life behavior of prominent liberals including Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and Ralph Nader – among others. "Hypocrisy has proved to be a wonderful weapon for liberals in their war against conservatives," Schweizer writes in the November issue of NewsMax Magazine. "Yet for all the talk about conservative hypocrisy, there has been very little investigation into the prevalence of hypocrisy on the left." After two years of research into liberal hypocrisy, Schweizer said, "what I discovered was just stunning." Schweizer's well-annotated book, published by Doubleday, has just been released and its sure to turn several well-known liberals red with anger. Among the eye-opening revelations of "Do As I Say": # Filmmaker Michael Moore insists that corporations are evil and claims he doesn't invest in the stock market due to moral principle. But Moore's IRS forms, viewed by Schweizer, show that over the past five years he has owned shares in such corporate giants as Halliburton, Merck, Pfizer, Sunoco, Tenet Healthcare, Ford, General Electric and McDonald's. # Staunch union supporter Rep. Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) has received the Cesar Chavez Award from the United Farmworkers Union. But the $25 million Northern California vineyard she and her husband own is a non-union shop. The hypocrisy doesn't end there. Pelosi has received more money from the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees union than any other member of Congress in recent election cycles. But the Pelosis own a large stake in an exclusive hotel in Rutherford, Calif. It has more than 250 employees. But none of them are in a union, according to Schweizer, author of "The Bushes: Portrait of a Dynasty" and a regular contributor to the New York Times, Wall Street Journal and other periodicals. The Pelosis are also partners in a restaurant chain called Piatti, which has 900 employees. The chain is – that's right, a non-union shop. # Ralph Nader is another liberal who claims that unions are essential to protect worker rights. But when an editor of one of his publications tried to form a union to ameliorate miserable working conditions, the editor was fired and the locks changed on the office door. # Self-described socialist Noam Chomsky has described the Pentagon as "the most vile institution on the face of the earth" and lashed out against tax havens and trusts that benefit only the rich. But Chomsky has been paid millions of dollars by the Pentagon over the last 40 years, and he used a venerable law firm to set up his irrevocable trust to shield his assets from the IRS. # Air America radio host Al Franken says conservatives are racist because they lack diversity and oppose affirmative action. But fewer than 1 percent of the people he has hired over the past 15 years have been African-American. # Ted Kennedy has fought for the estate tax and spoken out against tax shelters. But he has repeatedly benefited from an intricate web of trusts and private foundations that have shielded most of his family's fortune from the IRS. One Kennedy family trust wasn't even set up in the U.S., but in Fiji. Another family member, environmentalist Robert Kennedy Jr., has said that it is not moral to profit from natural resources. But he receives an annual check from the family's large holdings in the oil industry. # Barbra Streisand has talked about the necessity of unions to protect a "living wage." But she prefers to do her filming and postproduction work in Canada, where she can pay less than American union wages. # Bill and Hillary Clinton have spoken in favor of the estate tax, and in 2000 Bill vetoed a bill seeking to end it. But the Clintons have set up a contract trust that allows them to substantially reduce the amount of inheritance tax their estate will pay when they die. Hillary, for her part, has written and spoken extensively about the right of children to make major decisions regarding their own lives. But she barred 13-year-old daughter Chelsea from getting her ears pierced and forbid the teen from watching MTV or HBO. # Billionaire Bush-basher George Soros says the wealthy should pay higher, more progressive tax rates. But he holds the bulk of his money in tax-free overseas accounts in Curacao, Bermuda and the Cayman Islands. Schweizer writes: "Liberals claim to support affirmative action but don't practice it. They support higher taxes but set up complicated tax shelters to avoid paying them. They claim to be ardent environmentalists but abandon their cause when it impinges on their own property rights. "The reality is that liberals like to preach in moral platitudes. They like to condemn ordinary Americans and Republicans for a whole host of things - racism, lack of concern for the poor, polluting the environment, and greed. "But when it comes to applying those same standards to themselves, liberals are found to be shockingly guilty of hypocrisy. "The media and the American people need to hold them accountable." "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
Yeah, but the VA is a government run safety net isn't it? So that means you
wouldn't be for it. Why not ask private interests to take care of our disabled soldiers? I'm sure they would be glad to help and would do a much better job than the government, don't you think? I think they could make a lot of money at it. I don't have a problem with an employer providing benefits to their employees. I also don't have a problem with government employees receiving pensions and health care from their govt. employer. Vet's were employee's of the govt. operated military. If they had been a private militia, then the govt. would have not place in it. Not really a contflict of interest at all. Tillman |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
On 1 Nov 2005 16:35:08 -0800, "tillius"
wrote: more lib-tard dribble: Which will terminate the day after you cannot afford or miss a premium, such as being very ill. Which will terminate the day after you cannot afford or miss a premium, such as being very ill. And your copays & deductables are what? Actually - no. Or course, if I didn't plan for emergencies, I wouldn't have a minimum of 6 months expenses in my liquid emergency fund and that might be a concern, but I find it far wiser not to waste my resources on frivolities you lib-tards are so fond of so I can protect my family and future. snicker Only a six month emergency fund? That's quite silly. Not even counting real disasters or health problems. Expecting the government or welfare to bail you out? and my copays and deductables are within my budget :) How would you know til disaster strikes? You might well be very shocked. Assuming that you could even keep up the premiums, which I now doubt. I'm gonna have to fix this kill file timing - getting tired of giving you the old pinko Found those "WMDs" yet? Tillman And now we know ... -- Cliff |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
On 1 Nov 2005 16:29:18 -0800, "tillius"
wrote: Cliff the lib-tard dribbled: You say that now. What about the next day? You never know .... you might have a brain far* again and it would leak out your ears. see my earlier response to the other lib-tard: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...8d5e5f3?hl=en& You just contradicted yourself. wrong, you're just too feeble minded to get it IOW You cannot even read your own posts. What a hooter !! And you are going to have those that need them personally pay for them after the fact exactly how? Where's the profit in it & for whom, exactly? it's not about profit, Then nobody is going to take your money, now are they? it's about REAL compassion, something lib-tards just cant grasp Oops ... the ranter's loose in the woodpile again. I take exception with lumping VA benefits in with welfare. Why? It's welfare too. How odd ... dead silence. If a man serves his country and is injured in that service, that's the least we can do. HUH? But it's his own lookout ...... don't you want people taking personal responsability for the outcome of their own decisions? Again, a lib-tard who just can't grasp duty, compassion and personal responsibility. Don't you want people taking personal responsability for the outcome of their own decisions? Tillman What were you called before? -- Cliff |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 03:34:57 GMT, Omega wrote:
Of course we could have a government pension, like Social Security. Actually, an *optional* payroll deduction into an *optional* higher-valued "SS-like plan" might not be a bad idea. Assuming it's really zero sum on an annual basis and no politicos go dipping. -- Cliff |
OT: Was Pensions-bla-bla-bla
In article , F. George McDuffee
says... Well, one thing they can do is get certified as a class, and start a class action lawsuit against their employer. Unfortunatly, even if you win a class action lawsuit ... You need to bone up on current events my friend. This has already happened and damages have already be awarded. It is left to the reader to identifiy the large company that got spanked this way. Do you have any idea how *hard* it is to be certified as a class for a class-action lawsuit nowadays?? Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
lib-tard Tim scrawled:
Nonsense. I looked at this very carefully in 1975. Yes, 1975. A bunch of books had come out, sold at my local "Liberty" bookstore, in Mountain View, CA. The idea was to escape SS and income taxes by taking one of the various "vows of poverty" or the like. Well, it doesn't work that way. A bunch of IRS cases have put a bunch of "ordained priests" in prison. Really? Cites? Here - try this: /Excerpt from IRS Publication 517/ The sevices you perform in the exercise of your ministry are covered by social security and Medicare under SECA. Your earnings for these services are subject to self-employment tax (SE tax) unless one of the following applies. - You are a member of a religious order who has taken a vow of poverty - You ask the Internal Revenu Service (IRS) for an exemption from SE tax for your services and the IRS approves your request. See Exemption from Self- Employment (SE) tax later. - You are subject only to social security laws of a foreign county under the provisions of a social secruity agreement between the United States and that country. Your earnings that are not from the exercise of your ministry may be subject to social security tax under FICA or SECA according to the rules that apply to taxpayers in general. Ministers --------- If you are a minister of a church, your earnings for the services your perform in your capacity as a minister are subject to SE tax unless you have requested and received an exemption. Exemption From Self-Employment (SE) Tax --------------------------------------- You can request an exemption from SE tax if you are one of the following. - A minister. - A member of a religious order who has not taken a vow of poverty. - A Christian Science practitioner - A member of a recognized religious sect. /End of Excerpt From IRS Publication 517/ Reference URL: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p517.pdf Tillman |
The End of Pensions -- But Keep Voting for Republicans as You Spend Your Golden Years in a Cardboard Box on the Street
Oops - Sorry about the lib-tard line at the top. I got carried away.
Tillman |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:00 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter