I have a pin hole in a brass instrument. The usual 2 ways of patching it
would be to put a small brass patch on it or melt a tiny bit of solder into
it. The patch works well but it is an obvious patch, solder works well but
it is silver and is also obvious.
I know silver solder will do the job and looks sorta brassy when done but
there is too much chance of melting the pipe.

Is there a brass colored soft solder out there?

llb

Check with someone who does jewelry repair. I think there is a brass/gold
colored soft solder.
Don Young
"brassbend" wrote in message
...
I have a pin hole in a brass instrument. The usual 2 ways of patching it
would be to put a small brass patch on it or melt a tiny bit of solder
into
it. The patch works well but it is an obvious patch, solder works well
but
it is silver and is also obvious.
I know silver solder will do the job and looks sorta brassy when done but
there is too much chance of melting the pipe.

Is there a brass colored soft solder out there?

llb

Brass filled epoxy ? Check the hardware store - There are metal filled epoxies.

Won't take much.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



brassbend wrote:
I have a pin hole in a brass instrument. The usual 2 ways of patching it
would be to put a small brass patch on it or melt a tiny bit of solder into
it. The patch works well but it is an obvious patch, solder works well but
it is silver and is also obvious.
I know silver solder will do the job and looks sorta brassy when done but
there is too much chance of melting the pipe.

Is there a brass colored soft solder out there?

llb



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"brassbend" wrote: (clip) I know silver solder will do the job and looks
sorta brassy when done but there is too much chance of melting the pipe.
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There are silver solders that melt at substantially lower temperatures than
brass, so you should be able to do the job without blowing a hole. If you
are inexperienced at this, get some brass sheet of similar weight and
practice. When you get ready to do the actual repair, you can use a piece
of the practice brass to back up the hole for extra insurance, if you feel
you need it. Don't put flux around the back of the hole or on the backup
sheet. You will probably have to do some filing, sanding and buffing on
both sides to make the repair blend in.

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"brassbend" wrote: (clip) I know silver solder will do the job and looks
sorta brassy when done but there is too much chance of melting the pipe.
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There are silver solders that melt at substantially lower temperatures
than brass, so you should be able to do the job without blowing a hole.
If you are inexperienced at this, get some brass sheet of similar weight
and practice.

Or, if the piece is of high value and you're really worried about messing it
up, take it to a professional. They'll have the right tools and the skill to
do the job (and they should have insurance to cover your loss if they screw
it up). Ask for references.

- Michael

Is there a brass colored soft solder out there?

I was told there are chemical treatments for soft solder
to change the color. I was told that the stained glass
places use this to hide the solder joints on their lamps etc.

chuck

"Chuck Sherwood" wrote in message
...
Is there a brass colored soft solder out there?

I was told there are chemical treatments for soft solder
to change the color. I was told that the stained glass
places use this to hide the solder joints on their lamps etc.

chuck

you can get a dull brass color, black, green, copper. a good shiny brass
color is pretty hard to find. most stained glass shops will advise you to
use paint of some kind on brass. i believe michaels has a bright shiny brass
colored paint pen.

regards,
charlie
http://glassartists.org/chaniarts

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"brassbend" wrote: (clip) I know silver solder will do the job and
looks
sorta brassy when done but there is too much chance of melting the pipe.
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There are silver solders that melt at substantially lower temperatures
than brass, so you should be able to do the job without blowing a hole.
If you are inexperienced at this, get some brass sheet of similar weight
and practice.

Or, if the piece is of high value and you're really worried about messing
it
up, take it to a professional. They'll have the right tools and the skill
to
do the job (and they should have insurance to cover your loss if they
screw
it up). Ask for references.

- Michael

I AM the professional : ) I have the right tools and the skill : ) I
have also consulted with the highest pros in the instrument repair business
and got a little information. I am taking it here in hopes that someone
not in brass repair would know something we don't.

LB

Charles,
A dull brass color would be quite an improvement. Is this done with a
dye after the solder is on?

LB

"Charles Spitzer" wrote in message
...

"Chuck Sherwood" wrote in message
...
Is there a brass colored soft solder out there?

I was told there are chemical treatments for soft solder
to change the color. I was told that the stained glass
places use this to hide the solder joints on their lamps etc.

chuck

you can get a dull brass color, black, green, copper. a good shiny brass
color is pretty hard to find. most stained glass shops will advise you to
use paint of some kind on brass. i believe michaels has a bright shiny
brass
colored paint pen.

regards,
charlie
http://glassartists.org/chaniarts

"brassbend" wrote in message
...
Charles,
A dull brass color would be quite an improvement. Is this done with a
dye after the solder is on?

LB

"Charles Spitzer" wrote in message
...

"Chuck Sherwood" wrote in message
...
Is there a brass colored soft solder out there?

I was told there are chemical treatments for soft solder
to change the color. I was told that the stained glass
places use this to hide the solder joints on their lamps etc.

chuck

you can get a dull brass color, black, green, copper. a good shiny brass
color is pretty hard to find. most stained glass shops will advise you to
use paint of some kind on brass. i believe michaels has a bright shiny
brass
colored paint pen.

regards,
charlie
http://glassartists.org/chaniarts

it's done with a patina. here's an article on how to apply it.

http://www.artmetal.com/enrique/wrou...de_gate_06.htm

here's what it is

http://www.inlandcraft.com/Uguides/U...UGantbrass.htm

most all stained glass places carry or can get it, or you can get it online.
I use this site to buy stained glass stuff.

http://www.warner-criv.com/search/se...brass%20patina

you can make your own. it's really copper sulfate with a pinch of salt in it
i believe. the amount of salt makes it dark. if you leave it off, it's a bit
brighter.

regards,

charlie

http://glassartists.org/chaniarts

"brassbend" wrote in message
...
I have a pin hole in a brass instrument. The usual 2 ways of patching it
would be to put a small brass patch on it or melt a tiny bit of solder
into
it. The patch works well but it is an obvious patch, solder works well
but
it is silver and is also obvious.
I know silver solder will do the job and looks sorta brassy when done but
there is too much chance of melting the pipe.


Is it possible you could burnish the hole closed?

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:09:44 GMT, "brassbend"
wrote:

I have a pin hole in a brass instrument. The usual 2 ways of patching it
would be to put a small brass patch on it or melt a tiny bit of solder into
it. The patch works well but it is an obvious patch, solder works well but
it is silver and is also obvious.
I know silver solder will do the job and looks sorta brassy when done but
there is too much chance of melting the pipe.

Is there a brass colored soft solder out there?

If you have some scrap available to do a test on, I'd try a local
welding shop with a TIG welder, you can use the same alloy brass wire
or strip as filler.

You need someone used to doing delicate work, so the weld puddle is
just big enough to do the job - I have a friend who fixes injection
mold cavities for a living who can do itty bitty beads. And the
beauty of TIG is lots of control.

Then the color match shouldn't be a big issue (except for the brass
alloy mix getting a bit out of balance because of the weld puddle)
it's more a matter of grinding and buffing the repair flat again.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:26:16 GMT, "brassbend"
wrote:


"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"brassbend" wrote: (clip) I know silver solder will do the job and
looks
sorta brassy when done but there is too much chance of melting the pipe.
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There are silver solders that melt at substantially lower temperatures
than brass, so you should be able to do the job without blowing a hole.
If you are inexperienced at this, get some brass sheet of similar weight
and practice.

Or, if the piece is of high value and you're really worried about messing
it
up, take it to a professional. They'll have the right tools and the skill
to
do the job (and they should have insurance to cover your loss if they
screw
it up). Ask for references.

- Michael

I AM the professional : ) I have the right tools and the skill : ) I
have also consulted with the highest pros in the instrument repair business
and got a little information. I am taking it here in hopes that someone
not in brass repair would know something we don't.

LB

I thought I recalled that you were a pro.

One possibility: use a tin-silver solder (Harris Staybrite, about 400
degrees) and then brush-plate the repair with brass. You can get
the brush plating stuff from
www.caswellplating.com

There are two kinds of Staybrite solder; the Staybrite 8 (hard to
find) has a plastic range so it'll "build" better -- might be better
for filling holes.

Jewellers use solders in various shades of gold but these are hard rather
than soft solders and so might not be suitable for the application. I'm
afraid that I don't have my reference books to hand to look up the melting
points.

Where on the instrument is the hole? Could you patch it from the inside with
brass or copper shim? You will need to get a dremel or similar in to clean
up the surrounding area if you go down this route to get the solder to take
but it might be possible, I've seen this method used to repair valve ports,
apart from the cleaning the difficult part is holding the shim patch in
place while you solder it, this usually involves making up some sort of
'hairgrip' spring to hold it in place. K&S material centres (hobby stores)
do a small pack of various thicknesses of shim.

Don Valentine


"brassbend" wrote in message
...

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"brassbend" wrote: (clip) I know silver solder will do the job and
looks
sorta brassy when done but there is too much chance of melting the
pipe.
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There are silver solders that melt at substantially lower temperatures
than brass, so you should be able to do the job without blowing a hole.
If you are inexperienced at this, get some brass sheet of similar
weight
and practice.

Or, if the piece is of high value and you're really worried about messing
it
up, take it to a professional. They'll have the right tools and the skill
to
do the job (and they should have insurance to cover your loss if they
screw
it up). Ask for references.

- Michael

I AM the professional : ) I have the right tools and the skill : ) I
have also consulted with the highest pros in the instrument repair
business
and got a little information. I am taking it here in hopes that someone
not in brass repair would know something we don't.

LB

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:26:16 GMT, "brassbend"
wrote:


I AM the professional : ) I have the right tools and the skill : ) I
have also consulted with the highest pros in the instrument repair business
and got a little information. I am taking it here in hopes that someone
not in brass repair would know something we don't.

LB



Got any pictures of your work/processes?
Randy

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:

If you have some scrap available to do a test on, I'd try a local
welding shop with a TIG welder, you can use the same alloy brass wire
or strip as filler.

Nope. TIG is used in a few application in the instrument industry, but
the fabrication process is really designed around it - often the
workpiece is water cooled. Instrument brass is just too thin (.014"),
and the zinc likes to vaporise out of it with some sputtering - had
really bad results on stock twice that thick. Once place that uses tig
starts with a double thick workpiece, no filler, and a water cooled
mandrel, then grinds the result down.

I'd be hesitant to use soft solder for patching - it's for large area
joints not for structure. But one of the lower temperature hard silver
solders with a wide plastic range, and a really really tiny flame might
be an option. Unfortunatley the low temp hard solders - 56% silver,
etc have a silver rather than brass color. The brass colored ones are
mostly high temp, unless you get one with cadmium in it.

If it's in cylindrical tubing I'd try to remanufacture the part. In a
critical taper like a leadpipe, I'd want to replace the entire section.
Only in a bell section or possibly bell branch would I be likely to
try a patch.

You could always add a gratuitous water key...

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:26:16 GMT, "brassbend"
wrote:


"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"brassbend" wrote: (clip) I know silver solder will do the job and
looks
sorta brassy when done but there is too much chance of melting the
pipe.
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There are silver solders that melt at substantially lower
temperatures
than brass, so you should be able to do the job without blowing a
hole.
If you are inexperienced at this, get some brass sheet of similar
weight
and practice.

Or, if the piece is of high value and you're really worried about
messing
it
up, take it to a professional. They'll have the right tools and the
skill
to
do the job (and they should have insurance to cover your loss if they
screw
it up). Ask for references.

- Michael

I AM the professional : ) I have the right tools and the skill : ) I
have also consulted with the highest pros in the instrument repair
business
and got a little information. I am taking it here in hopes that someone
not in brass repair would know something we don't.

LB

I thought I recalled that you were a pro.

One possibility: use a tin-silver solder (Harris Staybrite, about 400
degrees) and then brush-plate the repair with brass. You can get
the brush plating stuff from
www.caswellplating.com

There are two kinds of Staybrite solder; the Staybrite 8 (hard to
find) has a plastic range so it'll "build" better -- might be better
for filling holes.

I had wondered if solder would plate. Thanks for the info. At this point I
am trying to make a solder out of powdered brass. I haven't got it right
yet, the powder is indeed melting to the tube but each grain of powder IS
NOT melting to its' neighbor. The repair looks jagged.
LLB

Where on the instrument is the hole? Could you patch it from the inside
with
brass or copper shim? You will need to get a dremel or similar in to
clean
up the surrounding area if you go down this route to get the solder to
take
but it might be possible, I've seen this method used to repair valve
ports,
apart from the cleaning the difficult part is holding the shim patch in
place while you solder it, this usually involves making up some sort of
'hairgrip' spring to hold it in place. K&S material centres (hobby
stores)
do a small pack of various thicknesses of shim.

Don Valentine

Don,
I think most repairmen would hang me if I put patches inside the tube.
There is too much of a chance of that throwing something off and giving the
horn a bad or even missing note.

LB

"Randy Replogle" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:26:16 GMT, "brassbend"
wrote:


I AM the professional : ) I have the right tools and the skill : ) I
have also consulted with the highest pros in the instrument repair
business
and got a little information. I am taking it here in hopes that someone
not in brass repair would know something we don't.

LB



Got any pictures of your work/processes?
Randy

Randy,
I am not computer savy enought to post any other than just sending a
picture through Email. I would be happy to send one or two. Send an
address if you want : )

LLB

"jtaylor" wrote in message
.ca...

"brassbend" wrote in message
...
I have a pin hole in a brass instrument. The usual 2 ways of patching
it
would be to put a small brass patch on it or melt a tiny bit of solder
into
it. The patch works well but it is an obvious patch, solder works well
but
it is silver and is also obvious.
I know silver solder will do the job and looks sorta brassy when done
but
there is too much chance of melting the pipe.


Is it possible you could burnish the hole closed?

You can get a hole almost closed that way but it will still leak if there is
anything left for it to leak through.

LLB

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:09:44 GMT, "brassbend"
wrote:

I have a pin hole in a brass instrument. The usual 2 ways of patching it
would be to put a small brass patch on it or melt a tiny bit of solder
into
it. The patch works well but it is an obvious patch, solder works well
but
it is silver and is also obvious.
I know silver solder will do the job and looks sorta brassy when done but
there is too much chance of melting the pipe.

Is there a brass colored soft solder out there?

If you have some scrap available to do a test on, I'd try a local
welding shop with a TIG welder, you can use the same alloy brass wire
or strip as filler.

You need someone used to doing delicate work, so the weld puddle is
just big enough to do the job - I have a friend who fixes injection
mold cavities for a living who can do itty bitty beads. And the
beauty of TIG is lots of control.

Then the color match shouldn't be a big issue (except for the brass
alloy mix getting a bit out of balance because of the weld puddle)
it's more a matter of grinding and buffing the repair flat again.

-- Bruce --

Bruce,
I tried brazing some brass smarf from my lathe bed onto the tube but
because they are both the same alloy they both had the same melting points.
I fixed a 1/16 hole by turning it into a 1/2 hole : ) Yes, it was a bit of
scrap tube or there would not be a smiley face on the end of the last
sentence!

LB

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 23:32:02 GMT, "brassbend"
wrote:



Don,
I think most repairmen would hang me if I put patches inside the tube.
There is too much of a chance of that throwing something off and giving the
horn a bad or even missing note.

LB


As a trumpet player, I would too!
Randy

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 23:41:18 GMT, "brassbend"
wrote:
"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:09:44 GMT, "brassbend"
wrote:

I have a pin hole in a brass instrument. The usual 2 ways of patching it
would be to put a small brass patch on it or melt a tiny bit of solder
into it. The patch works well but it is an obvious patch, solder works well
but it is silver and is also obvious.
I know silver solder will do the job and looks sorta brassy when done but
there is too much chance of melting the pipe.

Is there a brass colored soft solder out there?

If you have some scrap available to do a test on, I'd try a local
welding shop with a TIG welder, you can use the same alloy brass wire
or strip as filler.

You need someone used to doing delicate work, so the weld puddle is
just big enough to do the job - I have a friend who fixes injection
mold cavities for a living who can do itty bitty beads. And the
beauty of TIG is lots of control.

Then the color match shouldn't be a big issue (except for the brass
alloy mix getting a bit out of balance because of the weld puddle)
it's more a matter of grinding and buffing the repair flat again.

I tried brazing some brass smarf from my lathe bed onto the tube but
because they are both the same alloy they both had the same melting points.
I fixed a 1/16 hole by turning it into a 1/2 hole : ) Yes, it was a bit of
scrap tube or there would not be a smiley face on the end of the last
sentence!

I don't TIG myself, which is why I added the healthy disclaimer to
experiment on scrap first, and find a master TIG welder that can deal
with the details. But if you used a regular O-A torch on your
experiment, that's like hitting a finishing nail with a pile driver.

You can make it a tiny little puddle with TIG, and you have the
pedal for fine amperage control. If it had to be a gas heat source,
one of the tiny jewelers torches might work.

I understand with brass and copper there's a tiny plastic zone
between solid and melted, it's a very fine line between not enough
heat and way too much - which is why you usually stick with brazing or
soldering, because you choose the filler metal to stay below the
melting temperature range of the base metal.

If you have a way to put a chill plate behind the repair area to act
as a mold and keep the blob from falling through, it shouldn't matter
if the whole area melts into a blob because it's supported from the
back. Just keep the blob small, stir in filler to make it an
amorphous solid blob, get the heat off it as soon as you can, then you
can grind off the excess later.

I'm way out of my league and I know it, and I'm not afraid to admit
it - but /in theory/ it should work. The devil is in the details.

And think of all the extra repair business you can get fixing
pinholes if you figure out how to make it work... ;-)

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.