I use a 5 gallon bucket and a sump pump thats my $25.00 cooler, who cares if
it runs when not welding. I just plug it in when I start and unplug when
done. If your going to weld a lot you will need a heat exchange but for what
I do it will worm the water nice but not hot.
"Ignoramus5533" wrote in message
...
I am thinking of making a homemade TIG water cooler. If I buy a
carbonator pump with motor, and I already have a nice condenser heat
exchanger (actually about 20 of little cute 12" ones), then all I need
in addition is a water reservoir (like a 5 gallon bucket), a 24 v
relay to turn on when my welding machine says so, and a little fan to
cool the heat exchanger. I have a lot of such fans. Am I missing
something?

thanks

i

Ignoramus5533 wrote:

I am thinking of making a homemade TIG water cooler. If I buy a
carbonator pump with motor, and I already have a nice condenser heat
exchanger (actually about 20 of little cute 12" ones), then all I need
in addition is a water reservoir (like a 5 gallon bucket), a 24 v
relay to turn on when my welding machine says so, and a little fan to
cool the heat exchanger. I have a lot of such fans. Am I missing
something?

thanks

Nobody has yet commented on the appropriateness of a carbonator pump for
this application -

I think it's a bad idea - carbonator pumps are high speed vane pumps,
(they're not positive displacement but they get unhappy (and hot enough
to boil the water in them) when throttled down...) And generally use a
1/4 or 1/3 HP motor - noisy and consume a lot of power.

For as little flow and pressure as you'll need, a pump from a garden
fountain should be fine - probably cheaper, too if you're buying one new.

Carla

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:15:24 GMT, Carla Fong
wrote:

Ignoramus5533 wrote:

I am thinking of making a homemade TIG water cooler. If I buy a
carbonator pump with motor, and I already have a nice condenser heat
exchanger (actually about 20 of little cute 12" ones), then all I need
in addition is a water reservoir (like a 5 gallon bucket), a 24 v
relay to turn on when my welding machine says so, and a little fan to
cool the heat exchanger. I have a lot of such fans. Am I missing
something?

thanks

Nobody has yet commented on the appropriateness of a carbonator pump for
this application -

I think it's a bad idea - carbonator pumps are high speed vane pumps,
(they're not positive displacement but they get unhappy (and hot enough
to boil the water in them) when throttled down...) And generally use a
1/4 or 1/3 HP motor - noisy and consume a lot of power.

For as little flow and pressure as you'll need, a pump from a garden
fountain should be fine - probably cheaper, too if you're buying one new.

Carla

Carbonator pumps ARE what are used for Tig coolers by many
manufactures.

Bernard for example uses Procon carbonator pumps in all their
chillers. They have a bybass valve for pressure relief

Lincolns Magnum line uses a Sureflo diaphram pump, but it too has a
bypass valve for pressure relief.

Garden pumps are "high" volume, low pressure. When you pump water
through a tiny 1/8" hose..you need pressure to be sure that a simple
kink doesnt cause your torch to melt down. 60lPSI is about the normal
pressure for bypass..so Bernards, for example...run up to that range
in normal usage.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

A garden pump isn't likely to make anywhere near the required pressure.
Having spoken to the maker about their WTC 20 that I use on a 200 A TIG
unit they recommended at least 50 psi IIRC. The torch head is very
restricted and requires quite a pressure to give the required flow for
adequate cooling at max current. Some people just use a total loss
system and mains water pressure, I use a water tank and circulation pump
with anti freeze added for precaution. A question I asked the torch
maker was what people do in low temp conditions, IIRC you can run 100%
anti freeze if the conditions require it.

require itCarla Fong wrote:

Ignoramus5533 wrote:

I am thinking of making a homemade TIG water cooler. If I buy a
carbonator pump with motor, and I already have a nice condenser heat
exchanger (actually about 20 of little cute 12" ones), then all I need
in addition is a water reservoir (like a 5 gallon bucket), a 24 v
relay to turn on when my welding machine says so, and a little fan to
cool the heat exchanger. I have a lot of such fans. Am I missing
something?

thanks


Nobody has yet commented on the appropriateness of a carbonator pump
for this application -

I think it's a bad idea - carbonator pumps are high speed vane pumps,
(they're not positive displacement but they get unhappy (and hot
enough to boil the water in them) when throttled down...) And
generally use a 1/4 or 1/3 HP motor - noisy and consume a lot of power.

For as little flow and pressure as you'll need, a pump from a garden
fountain should be fine - probably cheaper, too if you're buying one new.

Carla

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:15:24 GMT, Carla Fong
wrote:


Ignoramus5533 wrote:


I am thinking of making a homemade TIG water cooler. If I buy a
carbonator pump with motor, and I already have a nice condenser heat
exchanger (actually about 20 of little cute 12" ones), then all I need
in addition is a water reservoir (like a 5 gallon bucket), a 24 v
relay to turn on when my welding machine says so, and a little fan to
cool the heat exchanger. I have a lot of such fans. Am I missing
something?

thanks

Nobody has yet commented on the appropriateness of a carbonator pump for
this application -

I think it's a bad idea - carbonator pumps are high speed vane pumps,
(they're not positive displacement but they get unhappy (and hot enough
to boil the water in them) when throttled down...) And generally use a
1/4 or 1/3 HP motor - noisy and consume a lot of power.

For as little flow and pressure as you'll need, a pump from a garden
fountain should be fine - probably cheaper, too if you're buying one new.

Carla


Carbonator pumps ARE what are used for Tig coolers by many
manufactures.

Bernard for example uses Procon carbonator pumps in all their
chillers. They have a bybass valve for pressure relief

Lincolns Magnum line uses a Sureflo diaphram pump, but it too has a
bypass valve for pressure relief.

Garden pumps are "high" volume, low pressure. When you pump water
through a tiny 1/8" hose..you need pressure to be sure that a simple
kink doesnt cause your torch to melt down. 60lPSI is about the normal
pressure for bypass..so Bernards, for example...run up to that range
in normal usage.

Gunner


That's good to know - especially if I ever get around to water cooling
our TIG system.

Thanks -

Carla

Carla Fong wrote:
Ignoramus5533 wrote:

I am thinking of making a homemade TIG water cooler. If I buy a
carbonator pump with motor, and I already have a nice condenser heat
exchanger (actually about 20 of little cute 12" ones), then all I need
in addition is a water reservoir (like a 5 gallon bucket), a 24 v
relay to turn on when my welding machine says so, and a little fan to
cool the heat exchanger. I have a lot of such fans. Am I missing
something?

thanks


Nobody has yet commented on the appropriateness of a carbonator pump for
this application -

I think it's a bad idea - carbonator pumps are high speed vane pumps,
(they're not positive displacement but they get unhappy (and hot enough
to boil the water in them) when throttled down...) And generally use a
1/4 or 1/3 HP motor - noisy and consume a lot of power.

For as little flow and pressure as you'll need, a pump from a garden
fountain should be fine - probably cheaper, too if you're buying one new.

Carla

Have you looked at the Bernard cooling units specifically made for TIG
welders? Looks like a Procon carbonator pump to me...

Carla Fong wrote:

Ignoramus5533 wrote:

I am thinking of making a homemade TIG water cooler. If I buy a
carbonator pump with motor, and I already have a nice condenser heat
exchanger (actually about 20 of little cute 12" ones), then all I need
in addition is a water reservoir (like a 5 gallon bucket), a 24 v
relay to turn on when my welding machine says so, and a little fan to
cool the heat exchanger. I have a lot of such fans. Am I missing
something?

thanks


Nobody has yet commented on the appropriateness of a carbonator pump for
this application -

I think it's a bad idea - carbonator pumps are high speed vane pumps,
(they're not positive displacement but they get unhappy (and hot enough
to boil the water in them) when throttled down...) And generally use a
1/4 or 1/3 HP motor - noisy and consume a lot of power.

For as little flow and pressure as you'll need, a pump from a garden
fountain should be fine - probably cheaper, too if you're buying one new.

Carla

I have used a carbonator pump for my TIG cooler and it was a gear pump.
As Carla pointed out, it was wicked noisy. It made more noise than the
fan on my Dialarc 250. Getting rid of that pump and replacing it with a
nice quiet little pump was a real relief.

The carbonator pump also needed a pressure bypass valve. It would
produce about 100 PSI into a torch and my Weldcraft torch is only rated
at 60 PSI.

Another possibility is the Shurflow diaphram pumps. If you use a damper
on them, the pressure pulsations are not objectionable. The Shurflow
pumps can often be found in surplus places for $20 or $30 for a 120 volt
version. They also need a pressure bypass, although I have heard that
some have them built in. There are pictures of this last cooler in the
dropbox.

Good Luck,
Bob

"Carla Fong" wrote in message
news:M9c7f.3357$HW5.395@trnddc04...
Ignoramus5533 wrote:

I am thinking of making a homemade TIG water cooler. If I buy a
carbonator pump with motor, and I already have a nice condenser heat
exchanger (actually about 20 of little cute 12" ones), then all I need
in addition is a water reservoir (like a 5 gallon bucket), a 24 v
relay to turn on when my welding machine says so, and a little fan to
cool the heat exchanger. I have a lot of such fans. Am I missing
something?

thanks

Nobody has yet commented on the appropriateness of a carbonator pump for
this application -

I think it's a bad idea - carbonator pumps are high speed vane pumps,
(they're not positive displacement but they get unhappy (and hot enough to
boil the water in them) when throttled down...) And generally use a 1/4 or
1/3 HP motor - noisy and consume a lot of power.

For as little flow and pressure as you'll need, a pump from a garden
fountain should be fine - probably cheaper, too if you're buying one new.

Carla

I didn't know what a carbonator pump was so didn't say anything If it is
truely that big a pump it is overkill. A swamp cooler pump would be a good
choice also. They come in a 220V variety that may be handy if you want to
run it from the welder.
Glenn

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:20:04 -0700, "Glenn"
wrote:


"Carla Fong" wrote in message
news:M9c7f.3357$HW5.395@trnddc04...
Ignoramus5533 wrote:

I am thinking of making a homemade TIG water cooler. If I buy a
carbonator pump with motor, and I already have a nice condenser heat
exchanger (actually about 20 of little cute 12" ones), then all I need
in addition is a water reservoir (like a 5 gallon bucket), a 24 v
relay to turn on when my welding machine says so, and a little fan to
cool the heat exchanger. I have a lot of such fans. Am I missing
something?

thanks

Nobody has yet commented on the appropriateness of a carbonator pump for
this application -

I think it's a bad idea - carbonator pumps are high speed vane pumps,
(they're not positive displacement but they get unhappy (and hot enough to
boil the water in them) when throttled down...) And generally use a 1/4 or
1/3 HP motor - noisy and consume a lot of power.

For as little flow and pressure as you'll need, a pump from a garden
fountain should be fine - probably cheaper, too if you're buying one new.

Carla

I didn't know what a carbonator pump was so didn't say anything If it is
truely that big a pump it is overkill. A swamp cooler pump would be a good
choice also. They come in a 220V variety that may be handy if you want to
run it from the welder.
Glenn

A carbonator pump, sans the standard 1/4hp motor..will fit in half a
Coke can. They are not big. I have 3 of them running on tig units.
The pump themselves make little noise..the only noise being the motor
turning it. And few 1/4hp motors make much sound. The fans on my
chillers make more sound than any of the pump/motor combos.

Swamp cooler pumps again are volume, not pressure. If you are
lucky..you may..may get 20psi out of one.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:15:24 GMT, Carla Fong
wrote:

Ignoramus5533 wrote:

I am thinking of making a homemade TIG water cooler. If I buy a
carbonator pump with motor, and I already have a nice condenser heat
exchanger (actually about 20 of little cute 12" ones), then all I need
in addition is a water reservoir (like a 5 gallon bucket), a 24 v
relay to turn on when my welding machine says so, and a little fan to
cool the heat exchanger. I have a lot of such fans. Am I missing
something?

thanks

Nobody has yet commented on the appropriateness of a carbonator pump for
this application -

I think it's a bad idea - carbonator pumps are high speed vane pumps,
(they're not positive displacement but they get unhappy (and hot enough
to boil the water in them) when throttled down...) And generally use a
1/4 or 1/3 HP motor - noisy and consume a lot of power.

For as little flow and pressure as you'll need, a pump from a garden
fountain should be fine - probably cheaper, too if you're buying one new.

Carla
Greetings Carla,
Carbonator pumps are used for tig cooler pumps in stock units. The
bronze body gear pumps that is. Look at Teel pumps and you will see
that they list a pump for both carbonator and tig cooler use. The pump
P/N is 2P3838.
ERS

Ignoramus5533 wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:15:24 GMT, Carla Fong wrote:

Ignoramus5533 wrote:


I am thinking of making a homemade TIG water cooler. If I buy a
carbonator pump with motor, and I already have a nice condenser heat
exchanger (actually about 20 of little cute 12" ones), then all I need
in addition is a water reservoir (like a 5 gallon bucket), a 24 v
relay to turn on when my welding machine says so, and a little fan to
cool the heat exchanger. I have a lot of such fans. Am I missing
something?

thanks

Nobody has yet commented on the appropriateness of a carbonator pump for
this application -

I think it's a bad idea - carbonator pumps are high speed vane pumps,
(they're not positive displacement but they get unhappy (and hot enough
to boil the water in them) when throttled down...) And generally use a
1/4 or 1/3 HP motor - noisy and consume a lot of power.


Well, my pump would be turned on by a relay when the welding machine
opens the water valve. I have a relay contact for that, on the
machine. Hence, it would run intermittently (when I am welding), and
would not operate with closed off flow.


For as little flow and pressure as you'll need, a pump from a garden
fountain should be fine - probably cheaper, too if you're buying one new.


I am not sure about the needed pressure. It needs to push water
through what looks like 50 feet of 3/16" line on the torch, plus
through the tiny channels on the torch itself, at a high enough rate.

That seems to require a lot of pressure.

i



I only use my water cooled torch occasionally. The hose fitting and a
bunch of palctic tube cost 10 bucks, run it out the door. Water is cheap
, relatively speaking

I only use my water cooled torch occasionally. The hose fitting and a
bunch of palctic tube cost 10 bucks, run it out the door. Water is cheap
, relatively speaking


It is a pain to do it every time I need to weld, and cannot be done in
winter at all.

i

I agree it is not suatable for everybody.
my self ,as an example.
I've tried using city water,it is not expensive but I find it
wastefull.
I've tried colecting itin a 50 gal drum to use it for irrigation
purpose. in an hour or two so much was accumulated that it was hard to
move the barrel around. now you need a pump to pump it out.

dump it in the drain? NO.
I am in a pressurized sewer system, meaning it collects in a holding
tank (about 100gal) than a grinder / lift pump will pump it out to
the street sewer pipes. meaning I am paying for it twice + electricity

dump it next to the house? NO !
not me ......subterranian termmites would build a castle at the water
dumpng site in the hurry, then eat the 2x4s in my garage. this is
Texas baby

easy, simple solution = water cooler recirculator
build it once...you are done.

also that distilled water will not likely to plug up the small
passages in the torch head.

just my oppinion.