Another set has just been posted:

http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/


Rob

R.H. wrote:

Another set has just been posted:

http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/


Rob




From rec.woodworking

#412: It's on the tip of my brain, I know I've seen that before somewhere.
#413: That's a wire grip. You'd love to see the ones I used to use
when building 500kv lines!
#414: Dunno
#415: Looks like an old ball joint separator
#416: Tubing bender
#417: Piston ring groove cleaner

"R.H." wrote in news:w31Ge.34249$B52.29431
@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com:

Another set has just been posted:

http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/


Rob




413 - Part of a wire strainer kit
416 - copper tube bending spring


and that's burnt me out.

JB


--
After several glasses of cheap red, imabrowneye was heard to mention
that....
Vox audita perit, litteras scritpa manet.

R.H. wrote:
Another set has just been posted:

http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/


Rob


412. Block for attaching a mason's line to corners.
413. Identified by previous posters.
414. Laser level, missing the level?
415. Valve spring compressor for side-valve engine?
416 and 417. Identified by previous posters.

R.H. wrote:

http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/

#413: For lifting/handling sheet metal
#414: A homebrewn laser level.
But damnit, I really don't know what pieces of scrap
you've put together for whatever one time job. :-)
#415: Autsch! my balls!
#417: Scriber with dull edge?

Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

412: Piece of wood.

413: Pipe wrench / grip / lifting tool / etc.

414: Binder clips, rubber bands and a laser light...

415: Torture device?

416: "spring" from a "don't open too far" door device / door stop.

417: Corner line scribe (non-techical name?)


--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
http://www.AutoDrill.com
http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

412 is a Mason's story-line cleat. Used for stretching a line from one end
of a wall to the other for establishing the next course's height.

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
news:s74Ge.1597$1E.548@trndny04...
412: Piece of wood.

413: Pipe wrench / grip / lifting tool / etc.

414: Binder clips, rubber bands and a laser light...

415: Torture device?

416: "spring" from a "don't open too far" door device / door stop.

417: Corner line scribe (non-techical name?)


--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
http://www.AutoDrill.com
http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

R.H. wrote:
Another set has just been posted:

http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/


Rob



414: SuperMaul, with laser sight. It is missing its projectile, a pencil.
http://www.officeguns.com/gunadv_super_maul.html

#412: Mason line holder
#413: Cable or wire gripper - often used to stretch barb wire
#414: Laser, rubber bands and a bunch of paper clips with the silver
handles removed?
#415: Valve spring compressor
#416: Tubing bender
#417: Piston groove cleaner

R.H. wrote:
Another set has just been posted:

http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/


Rob


Whistle.

Wire grabber, for fence stretching or pulling a span of electrical wire
tight.

Laser-propelled toy boat.

Spring compressor or Chinese proctology device.

Spring you put around tubing in hopes of bending it without kinking.

Spring-loaded thing for marking a line down the length of something.

John

72

gregj wrote:

72

And I always thought that 42 is the right answer!


Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

R.H. wrote:
Another set has just been posted:

http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/


Rob



414 A modern green laser pointer on a home cludged mount for a
telescope - use as a one-power finder.

--
Bill Berglin

http://home.comcast.net/~bberg100

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid
in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly
proclaiming, 'WOW! What A RIDE!!" ... Unknown

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:54:52 GMT, "R.H." wrote:

Another set has just been posted:

http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/


Rob


#415 Valve spring compressor
#416 Helicoil



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

In article ,
R.H. wrote:
Another set has just been posted:

http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/

O.K. Posting from rec.crafts.metalworking again:

Interesting collection.

412) Hmm ... not really sure about this at all.

Perhaps some form of whistle? Blow into the narrow end and the
air spreads out when it gets to the cross-hole and cycles up and
back?

Or it could be a "serving" block, for wrapping a binding around a
line (rope).

413) This is some kind of load binder. My guess is that these are
intended to be used in pairs on opposite edges of thick sheet
metal. Lifting ropes are attached to the eyes on the left, and
as the ropes pull upwards (to the left as oriented for the
photos) the clamp closes on the edge. (I've seen something like
this for binding on rope, but this one looks better oriented to
flat metal.) You would use them in pairs, as they would not be
strong pulling at right angles to the gripped edge.

414) The missing part is a mirror. This is a laser pointer
(rubber-banded to a conglomeration of binder clasps minus the
handles.)

Point it at a mirror, and slight changes in the angle of the
mirror will be magnified at as motion in the point where the
dot hits -- perhaps ten feet or so away.

415) For drawing two ball-shaped (or half-ball shaped) objects closer
together. Perhaps on the ends of two lines, to allow them to be
joined under load.

416) An *easy* one. This is for bending metal tubing (usually
copper but other possibilities are there.) Often found in
company with a tubing flaring kit. (A different size of this is
needed for each size of tubing.) The spring keeps the sides of
the tubing from spreading during the bending.

417) No real idea, other than something like a disc with a center hole
goes on the pin at the end of the upper handle, and that the
thumbscrew acts to limit the travel of the arm somewhat.

Now to see what others have said on this batch.

Enjoy,
DoN.


--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

R.H. wrote:
Another set has just been posted:

http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/


Rob



417 piston ring groove cleaner

--
Bill Berglin

http://home.comcast.net/~bberg100

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid
in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly
proclaiming, 'WOW! What A RIDE!!" ... Unknown

They've all been answered correctly:





412. Mason's line holder
413. Cable puller
414. Pencil launcher
415. Valve spring compressor, I wasn't sure about this one until I found
another one ebay
416. Tube bending spring
417. Piston groove cleaner

A couple new photos and links can be found on the answer page:

http://pzphotosan75.blogspot.com/


Rob

But damnit, I really don't know what pieces of scrap
you've put together for whatever one time job. :-)


I've been trying to post one non-tool photo each week, but it's getting
harder and harder to find something good for each set. I've got enough
tools to last a little while but I have to scrounge every week for a decent
close-up or other non-hardware pieces.

Rob

R.H. wrote:

I've been trying to post one non-tool photo each week, ...

Astonishing enough, someone has solved it.
Well, I'm gonna ignore the obious unobious things and stop complaining.
:-))


Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:55:07 +0000, R.H. wrote:
They've all been answered correctly:
412. Mason's line holder
413. Cable puller
414. Pencil launcher
415. Valve spring compressor, I wasn't sure about this one until I found
another one ebay
416. Tube bending spring
417. Piston groove cleaner

A couple new photos and links can be found on the answer page:

http://pzphotosan75.blogspot.com/

One little nitpick - #416, the tube goes _inside_ the coil, the coil
doesn't go inside the tube. I've used one of these before, and
it seems like, after the tube is bent, the bender doesn't just slide
off - it has to be unscrewed. It seems that the tube really _wants_
to crimp - but the coil constrains it, but the tube expands into
the interstices of the coil. I know this is true, because I bought
a set of three once, and the cardboard blister pack called out the
tube sizes that could be bent by each. I think they were 1/8", 1/4",
and either 3/16" or 3/8" - it's been a few years.

The nitpick is, the bender coil goes _outside_ the tube. :-)

Cheers!
Rich

The nitpick is, the bender coil goes _outside_ the tube. :-)


I've never used one and was going by what the seller told me. I did some
searching after seeing your post and found a site where they sell internal
and external bending springs, not sure when it would be appropriate to use
one instead of the other.

http://www.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/sbs/uk/h...ng/135901.html

As you stated, mine looks like an external one.

Rob

wrote:

#415: Valve spring compressor

Are you shure about that? I can't quite imagin how it serves the job. Is
it for automobile usege?


Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

""Nick Müller"" wrote in message
...
wrote:

#415: Valve spring compressor

Are you shure about that? I can't quite imagin how it serves the job. Is
it for automobile usege?


Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

It compresses the valve springs on flathead engines.

--
Peter DiVergilio
Most of the money I've wasted was mostly spent trying to impress people who
were never going to like me anyway!

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:55:07 +0000, R.H. wrote:
They've all been answered correctly:
412. Mason's line holder
413. Cable puller
414. Pencil launcher
415. Valve spring compressor, I wasn't sure about this one until I found
another one ebay
416. Tube bending spring
417. Piston groove cleaner

A couple new photos and links can be found on the answer page:

http://pzphotosan75.blogspot.com/

One little nitpick - #416, the tube goes _inside_ the coil, the coil
doesn't go inside the tube. I've used one of these before, and
it seems like, after the tube is bent, the bender doesn't just slide
off - it has to be unscrewed. It seems that the tube really _wants_
to crimp - but the coil constrains it, but the tube expands into
the interstices of the coil. I know this is true, because I bought
a set of three once, and the cardboard blister pack called out the
tube sizes that could be bent by each. I think they were 1/8", 1/4",
and either 3/16" or 3/8" - it's been a few years.

The nitpick is, the bender coil goes _outside_ the tube. :-)

Cheers!
Rich

Peter DiVergilio wrote:

It compresses the valve springs on flathead engines.

Oh, a hammer would do that too!
This tool is so dammned crude, that it might work for a huge engine. But
no one having a bit of brain would work on a 4-stroke with that thing.

Let's take a closer look at it:
- teeth on the outside: Would anybody like to ruin the surface with
them? Do you want to wedge it between the spring and the case? And if,
it's quite a stupid way to go.
- teet again: If it is to compress (and it only can compress something),
what are the teeth good for?
- The slot. Well, a valve stem would go in there, but could you reach
the keys that hold the valve spring retainer? Think about where the
retainer contacts the tool. Not a good contact surface _and_ it _must_
be parallel, or the retainer will tilt and lock on the stem.

All the valve-spring compressors I have seen look more like a C-clamp
with _parallel_ surfaces.

I really can't believe that.

Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

""Nick Müller"" wrote in message
...
Peter DiVergilio wrote:

It compresses the valve springs on flathead engines.

Oh, a hammer would do that too!
This tool is so dammned crude, that it might work for a huge engine. But
no one having a bit of brain would work on a 4-stroke with that thing.

Let's take a closer look at it:
- teeth on the outside: Would anybody like to ruin the surface with
them? Do you want to wedge it between the spring and the case? And if,
it's quite a stupid way to go.
- teet again: If it is to compress (and it only can compress something),
what are the teeth good for?
- The slot. Well, a valve stem would go in there, but could you reach
the keys that hold the valve spring retainer? Think about where the
retainer contacts the tool. Not a good contact surface _and_ it _must_
be parallel, or the retainer will tilt and lock on the stem.

All the valve-spring compressors I have seen look more like a C-clamp
with _parallel_ surfaces.

I really can't believe that.

Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

On Straight-six engines, where access is through a removable plate, it's the
easiest tool to use which will not bend things out of whack. Sorry if I
haven't explained it so you can visualize what I mean!!

--
Peter DiVergilio
Most of the money I've wasted was mostly spent trying to impress people who
were never going to like me anyway!

Peter DiVergilio wrote:

where access is through a removable plate, it's the
easiest tool to use which will not bend things out of whack.

I've been looking at old plans of automobile engines of that time, with
flat head (hanging valves; if you also use this expression). I think we
are talking about the same type of construction.

And here comes the point where things get at least strange:
- Hold the tool so, that the lower fork touches the spring retainer from
the underside. That's OK. Now (practically, the other way round is/was
better) you have to force and wag the upper fork between spring (under
tension!) and valve head.
- Do you think that this is an intelligent way if you consider what for
the spring is compressed. Yes, to remove the valve. Now we do have to
look way back to the early days of 4 strokes and see how valves were
inserted. In T-heads (a sub kind of flat heads) there was a big plug
opposide of the valve throug what the valve could be pulled out without
removing the head. Now wouldn't it be much cleverer to open that plug
and use a C-clamp spring compressor?
If you talk about flatheads without that plug, things don't change,
because the head is removed and you can easily use the C-clamp
compressor.


Sorry if I haven't explained it so you can visualize what I mean!!

Hope you could visualize what I meant. :-)

I'd also like to know where your knowledge is from that this tools is
for compressing automobile valve springs.

Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

Nick Müller wrote:

snip


All the valve-spring compressors I have seen look more like a C-clamp
with _parallel_ surfaces.

I really can't believe that.

Nick



Not all valve jobs are done with the head off of the engine. So the
"C" clamp type won't work in all situations.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools...e=snapon-store
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools...e=snapon-store

Mark and Kim Smith wrote:

Not all valve jobs are done with the head off of the engine. So the
"C" clamp type won't work in all situations.

That's right and thank you for the link.
But I'm still not giving up. :-)
In modern cars, this tool is helpfull, if you want to replace the
packing of the valve guide. But when the "doubted" tool was built, there
were no packings. There was no reason to just remove the spring.
Well, if it was broken. But then the valve was bent and burned and had
to be replaced.

Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

Nick Müller wrote:

Peter DiVergilio wrote:

It compresses the valve springs on flathead engines.

Oh, a hammer would do that too!
This tool is so dammned crude, that it might work for a huge engine. But
no one having a bit of brain would work on a 4-stroke with that thing.

Let's take a closer look at it:
- teeth on the outside: Would anybody like to ruin the surface with
them? Do you want to wedge it between the spring and the case? And if,
it's quite a stupid way to go.
- teet again: If it is to compress (and it only can compress something),
what are the teeth good for?
- The slot. Well, a valve stem would go in there, but could you reach
the keys that hold the valve spring retainer? Think about where the
retainer contacts the tool. Not a good contact surface _and_ it _must_
be parallel, or the retainer will tilt and lock on the stem.

All the valve-spring compressors I have seen look more like a C-clamp
with _parallel_ surfaces.

I really can't believe that.

Nick

Well you better believe it because he is right.
Strictly speaking though, last century, such devices were called
valve lifters, the term valve spring compressor, is a relatively
modern term.

I've posted a pic to the dropbox:

Tom

Nick Müller wrote:
Peter DiVergilio wrote:


where access is through a removable plate, it's the
easiest tool to use which will not bend things out of whack.


I've been looking at old plans of automobile engines of that time, with
flat head (hanging valves; if you also use this expression). I think we
are talking about the same type of construction.

And here comes the point where things get at least strange:
- Hold the tool so, that the lower fork touches the spring retainer from
the underside. That's OK. Now (practically, the other way round is/was
better) you have to force and wag the upper fork between spring (under
tension!) and valve head.

No. The tool is not intended to compress the valve spring, but merely
HOLD it in the compressed position. The valve cover on the side of the
block is removed. A valve is selected that is already open, with the
spring compressed. The tool is adjusted to slide around the lifter,
between the spring retainer and the block, below the valve. Then the
camshaft is rotated to lower the lifter. The keepers are removed from
the valve stem, and the valve removed from the block. Then on to the
next valve.

- Do you think that this is an intelligent way if you consider what for
the spring is compressed. Yes, to remove the valve. Now we do have to
look way back to the early days of 4 strokes and see how valves were
inserted. In T-heads (a sub kind of flat heads) there was a big plug
opposide of the valve throug what the valve could be pulled out without
removing the head. Now wouldn't it be much cleverer to open that plug
and use a C-clamp spring compressor?

It is much easier to use the camshaft lobe to compress the spring. The
tool merely keeps the spring compressed as the camshaft is rotated
further to allow valve keeper removal.

If you talk about flatheads without that plug, things don't change,
because the head is removed and you can easily use the C-clamp
compressor.

Valve servicing was often done with the engine in place, with manifolds
and other equipment still installed. The smaller tool was much less clumsy.



Sorry if I haven't explained it so you can visualize what I mean!!


Hope you could visualize what I meant. :-)

I'd also like to know where your knowledge is from that this tools is
for compressing automobile valve springs.

Many small gasoline engines still used the side-valve design here in the
US.


Dale Scroggins

Dale Scroggins wrote:

Nick Müller wrote:
Peter DiVergilio wrote:


where access is through a removable plate, it's the
easiest tool to use which will not bend things out of whack.


I've been looking at old plans of automobile engines of that time, with
flat head (hanging valves; if you also use this expression). I think we
are talking about the same type of construction.

And here comes the point where things get at least strange:
- Hold the tool so, that the lower fork touches the spring retainer from
the underside. That's OK. Now (practically, the other way round is/was
better) you have to force and wag the upper fork between spring (under
tension!) and valve head.

No. The tool is not intended to compress the valve spring, but merely
HOLD it in the compressed position. The valve cover on the side of the
block is removed. A valve is selected that is already open, with the
spring compressed. The tool is adjusted to slide around the lifter,
between the spring retainer and the block, below the valve. Then the
camshaft is rotated to lower the lifter. The keepers are removed from
the valve stem, and the valve removed from the block. Then on to the
next valve.

- Do you think that this is an intelligent way if you consider what for
the spring is compressed. Yes, to remove the valve. Now we do have to
look way back to the early days of 4 strokes and see how valves were
inserted. In T-heads (a sub kind of flat heads) there was a big plug
opposide of the valve throug what the valve could be pulled out without
removing the head. Now wouldn't it be much cleverer to open that plug
and use a C-clamp spring compressor?

It is much easier to use the camshaft lobe to compress the spring. The
tool merely keeps the spring compressed as the camshaft is rotated
further to allow valve keeper removal.

If you talk about flatheads without that plug, things don't change,
because the head is removed and you can easily use the C-clamp
compressor.

Valve servicing was often done with the engine in place, with manifolds
and other equipment still installed. The smaller tool was much less clumsy.



Sorry if I haven't explained it so you can visualize what I mean!!


Hope you could visualize what I meant. :-)

I'd also like to know where your knowledge is from that this tools is
for compressing automobile valve springs.

Many small gasoline engines still used the side-valve design here in the
US.

Dale Scroggins

Slight flaw in your reasoning, Dale, if it isn't used for compressing
the spring, how does one replace the valve & keepers? All the ones I
use are fully capable of compressing the springs.

Tom

Tom wrote:
Dale Scroggins wrote:

Nick Müller wrote:

Peter DiVergilio wrote:



where access is through a removable plate, it's the
easiest tool to use which will not bend things out of whack.


I've been looking at old plans of automobile engines of that time, with
flat head (hanging valves; if you also use this expression). I think we
are talking about the same type of construction.

And here comes the point where things get at least strange:
- Hold the tool so, that the lower fork touches the spring retainer from
the underside. That's OK. Now (practically, the other way round is/was
better) you have to force and wag the upper fork between spring (under
tension!) and valve head.

No. The tool is not intended to compress the valve spring, but merely
HOLD it in the compressed position. The valve cover on the side of the
block is removed. A valve is selected that is already open, with the
spring compressed. The tool is adjusted to slide around the lifter,
between the spring retainer and the block, below the valve. Then the
camshaft is rotated to lower the lifter. The keepers are removed from
the valve stem, and the valve removed from the block. Then on to the
next valve.


- Do you think that this is an intelligent way if you consider what for
the spring is compressed. Yes, to remove the valve. Now we do have to
look way back to the early days of 4 strokes and see how valves were
inserted. In T-heads (a sub kind of flat heads) there was a big plug
opposide of the valve throug what the valve could be pulled out without
removing the head. Now wouldn't it be much cleverer to open that plug
and use a C-clamp spring compressor?

It is much easier to use the camshaft lobe to compress the spring. The
tool merely keeps the spring compressed as the camshaft is rotated
further to allow valve keeper removal.


If you talk about flatheads without that plug, things don't change,
because the head is removed and you can easily use the C-clamp
compressor.

Valve servicing was often done with the engine in place, with manifolds
and other equipment still installed. The smaller tool was much less clumsy.



Sorry if I haven't explained it so you can visualize what I mean!!


Hope you could visualize what I meant. :-)

I'd also like to know where your knowledge is from that this tools is
for compressing automobile valve springs.

Many small gasoline engines still used the side-valve design here in the
US.

Dale Scroggins


Slight flaw in your reasoning, Dale, if it isn't used for compressing
the spring, how does one replace the valve & keepers? All the ones I
use are fully capable of compressing the springs.

Tom

While this tool would be capable of compressing the springs for valve
installation, I seldom used one on installation. It's easier for me to
compress the spring in a small vise, "mouse" the spring with a couple of
pieces of safety wire, install the spring, valves, and keepers, then cut
and remove the safety wire. The keepers are much easier to install with
no tool in the way, and everything is much easier to align.

My comments weren't based on reasoning or theory, but experience. The
technique I described isn't the only way to remove the valves using the
tool. It is, in my experience, the fastest way to remove side valves.
When customers were paying by the hour, fast was good.

Dale Scroggins

Dale Scroggins wrote:

Tom wrote:
Dale Scroggins wrote:

Nick Müller wrote:

Peter DiVergilio wrote:



where access is through a removable plate, it's the
easiest tool to use which will not bend things out of whack.


I've been looking at old plans of automobile engines of that time, with
flat head (hanging valves; if you also use this expression). I think we
are talking about the same type of construction.

And here comes the point where things get at least strange:
- Hold the tool so, that the lower fork touches the spring retainer from
the underside. That's OK. Now (practically, the other way round is/was
better) you have to force and wag the upper fork between spring (under
tension!) and valve head.

No. The tool is not intended to compress the valve spring, but merely
HOLD it in the compressed position. The valve cover on the side of the
block is removed. A valve is selected that is already open, with the
spring compressed. The tool is adjusted to slide around the lifter,
between the spring retainer and the block, below the valve. Then the
camshaft is rotated to lower the lifter. The keepers are removed from
the valve stem, and the valve removed from the block. Then on to the
next valve.


- Do you think that this is an intelligent way if you consider what for
the spring is compressed. Yes, to remove the valve. Now we do have to
look way back to the early days of 4 strokes and see how valves were
inserted. In T-heads (a sub kind of flat heads) there was a big plug
opposide of the valve throug what the valve could be pulled out without
removing the head. Now wouldn't it be much cleverer to open that plug
and use a C-clamp spring compressor?

It is much easier to use the camshaft lobe to compress the spring. The
tool merely keeps the spring compressed as the camshaft is rotated
further to allow valve keeper removal.


If you talk about flatheads without that plug, things don't change,
because the head is removed and you can easily use the C-clamp
compressor.

Valve servicing was often done with the engine in place, with manifolds
and other equipment still installed. The smaller tool was much less clumsy.



Sorry if I haven't explained it so you can visualize what I mean!!


Hope you could visualize what I meant. :-)

I'd also like to know where your knowledge is from that this tools is
for compressing automobile valve springs.

Many small gasoline engines still used the side-valve design here in the
US.

Dale Scroggins


Slight flaw in your reasoning, Dale, if it isn't used for compressing
the spring, how does one replace the valve & keepers? All the ones I
use are fully capable of compressing the springs.

Tom

While this tool would be capable of compressing the springs for valve
installation, I seldom used one on installation. It's easier for me to
compress the spring in a small vise, "mouse" the spring with a couple of
pieces of safety wire, install the spring, valves, and keepers, then cut
and remove the safety wire. The keepers are much easier to install with
no tool in the way, and everything is much easier to align.

My comments weren't based on reasoning or theory, but experience. The
technique I described isn't the only way to remove the valves using the
tool. It is, in my experience, the fastest way to remove side valves.
When customers were paying by the hour, fast was good.

Dale Scroggins

Why would you wish to remove the springs if you are only grinding
the valves?

Tom

Tom wrote:
Dale Scroggins wrote:

Tom wrote:

Dale Scroggins wrote:


Nick Müller wrote:


Peter DiVergilio wrote:




where access is through a removable plate, it's the
easiest tool to use which will not bend things out of whack.


I've been looking at old plans of automobile engines of that time, with
flat head (hanging valves; if you also use this expression). I think we
are talking about the same type of construction.

And here comes the point where things get at least strange:
- Hold the tool so, that the lower fork touches the spring retainer from
the underside. That's OK. Now (practically, the other way round is/was
better) you have to force and wag the upper fork between spring (under
tension!) and valve head.

No. The tool is not intended to compress the valve spring, but merely
HOLD it in the compressed position. The valve cover on the side of the
block is removed. A valve is selected that is already open, with the
spring compressed. The tool is adjusted to slide around the lifter,
between the spring retainer and the block, below the valve. Then the
camshaft is rotated to lower the lifter. The keepers are removed from
the valve stem, and the valve removed from the block. Then on to the
next valve.



- Do you think that this is an intelligent way if you consider what for
the spring is compressed. Yes, to remove the valve. Now we do have to
look way back to the early days of 4 strokes and see how valves were
inserted. In T-heads (a sub kind of flat heads) there was a big plug
opposide of the valve throug what the valve could be pulled out without
removing the head. Now wouldn't it be much cleverer to open that plug
and use a C-clamp spring compressor?

It is much easier to use the camshaft lobe to compress the spring. The
tool merely keeps the spring compressed as the camshaft is rotated
further to allow valve keeper removal.



If you talk about flatheads without that plug, things don't change,
because the head is removed and you can easily use the C-clamp
compressor.

Valve servicing was often done with the engine in place, with manifolds
and other equipment still installed. The smaller tool was much less clumsy.



Sorry if I haven't explained it so you can visualize what I mean!!


Hope you could visualize what I meant. :-)

I'd also like to know where your knowledge is from that this tools is
for compressing automobile valve springs.

Many small gasoline engines still used the side-valve design here in the
US.

Dale Scroggins


Slight flaw in your reasoning, Dale, if it isn't used for compressing
the spring, how does one replace the valve & keepers? All the ones I
use are fully capable of compressing the springs.

Tom

While this tool would be capable of compressing the springs for valve
installation, I seldom used one on installation. It's easier for me to
compress the spring in a small vise, "mouse" the spring with a couple of
pieces of safety wire, install the spring, valves, and keepers, then cut
and remove the safety wire. The keepers are much easier to install with
no tool in the way, and everything is much easier to align.

My comments weren't based on reasoning or theory, but experience. The
technique I described isn't the only way to remove the valves using the
tool. It is, in my experience, the fastest way to remove side valves.
When customers were paying by the hour, fast was good.

Dale Scroggins


Why would you wish to remove the springs if you are only grinding
the valves?

Tom

Who said I was only grinding valves? It isn't worth opening the engine
in most cases just to grind valves. Might as well do it all.

Dale Scroggins

I have used valve spring compressors similar to this, both the type that
goes on each end to squeeze the spring between the jaws and the type that
goes between the spring and the lifter, but I tend to think this tool is not
a valve spring compressor. The shape of the jaws is unlike any I have seen
and seems very poor for that purpose, either to squeeze the spring between
the jaws or to force the keeper away from the lifter.
Don Young
""Nick Müller"" wrote in message
...
Peter DiVergilio wrote:

It compresses the valve springs on flathead engines.

Oh, a hammer would do that too!
This tool is so dammned crude, that it might work for a huge engine. But
no one having a bit of brain would work on a 4-stroke with that thing.

Let's take a closer look at it:
- teeth on the outside: Would anybody like to ruin the surface with
them? Do you want to wedge it between the spring and the case? And if,
it's quite a stupid way to go.
- teet again: If it is to compress (and it only can compress something),
what are the teeth good for?
- The slot. Well, a valve stem would go in there, but could you reach
the keys that hold the valve spring retainer? Think about where the
retainer contacts the tool. Not a good contact surface _and_ it _must_
be parallel, or the retainer will tilt and lock on the stem.

All the valve-spring compressors I have seen look more like a C-clamp
with _parallel_ surfaces.

I really can't believe that.

Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

Dale Scroggins wrote:

Tom wrote:
Dale Scroggins wrote:

Tom wrote:

Dale Scroggins wrote:


Nick Müller wrote:


Peter DiVergilio wrote:




where access is through a removable plate, it's the
easiest tool to use which will not bend things out of whack.


I've been looking at old plans of automobile engines of that time, with
flat head (hanging valves; if you also use this expression). I think we
are talking about the same type of construction.

And here comes the point where things get at least strange:
- Hold the tool so, that the lower fork touches the spring retainer from
the underside. That's OK. Now (practically, the other way round is/was
better) you have to force and wag the upper fork between spring (under
tension!) and valve head.

No. The tool is not intended to compress the valve spring, but merely
HOLD it in the compressed position. The valve cover on the side of the
block is removed. A valve is selected that is already open, with the
spring compressed. The tool is adjusted to slide around the lifter,
between the spring retainer and the block, below the valve. Then the
camshaft is rotated to lower the lifter. The keepers are removed from
the valve stem, and the valve removed from the block. Then on to the
next valve.



- Do you think that this is an intelligent way if you consider what for
the spring is compressed. Yes, to remove the valve. Now we do have to
look way back to the early days of 4 strokes and see how valves were
inserted. In T-heads (a sub kind of flat heads) there was a big plug
opposide of the valve throug what the valve could be pulled out without
removing the head. Now wouldn't it be much cleverer to open that plug
and use a C-clamp spring compressor?

It is much easier to use the camshaft lobe to compress the spring. The
tool merely keeps the spring compressed as the camshaft is rotated
further to allow valve keeper removal.



If you talk about flatheads without that plug, things don't change,
because the head is removed and you can easily use the C-clamp
compressor.

Valve servicing was often done with the engine in place, with manifolds
and other equipment still installed. The smaller tool was much less clumsy.



Sorry if I haven't explained it so you can visualize what I mean!!


Hope you could visualize what I meant. :-)

I'd also like to know where your knowledge is from that this tools is
for compressing automobile valve springs.

Many small gasoline engines still used the side-valve design here in the
US.

Dale Scroggins


Slight flaw in your reasoning, Dale, if it isn't used for compressing
the spring, how does one replace the valve & keepers? All the ones I
use are fully capable of compressing the springs.

Tom

While this tool would be capable of compressing the springs for valve
installation, I seldom used one on installation. It's easier for me to
compress the spring in a small vise, "mouse" the spring with a couple of
pieces of safety wire, install the spring, valves, and keepers, then cut
and remove the safety wire. The keepers are much easier to install with
no tool in the way, and everything is much easier to align.

My comments weren't based on reasoning or theory, but experience. The
technique I described isn't the only way to remove the valves using the
tool. It is, in my experience, the fastest way to remove side valves.
When customers were paying by the hour, fast was good.

Dale Scroggins


Why would you wish to remove the springs if you are only grinding
the valves?

Tom

Who said I was only grinding valves? It isn't worth opening the engine
in most cases just to grind valves. Might as well do it all.

Dale Scroggins

Really? LOL. I'm sure someone with a burnt valve in a straight eight
would be impressed with your philosophy. Still, someone who wires
springs
prior to installing has to be an expert...

Tom

Tom wrote:
Dale Scroggins wrote:

Tom wrote:

Dale Scroggins wrote:


Tom wrote:


Dale Scroggins wrote:



Nick Müller wrote:



Peter DiVergilio wrote:





where access is through a removable plate, it's the
easiest tool to use which will not bend things out of whack.


I've been looking at old plans of automobile engines of that time, with
flat head (hanging valves; if you also use this expression). I think we
are talking about the same type of construction.

And here comes the point where things get at least strange:
- Hold the tool so, that the lower fork touches the spring retainer from
the underside. That's OK. Now (practically, the other way round is/was
better) you have to force and wag the upper fork between spring (under
tension!) and valve head.

No. The tool is not intended to compress the valve spring, but merely
HOLD it in the compressed position. The valve cover on the side of the
block is removed. A valve is selected that is already open, with the
spring compressed. The tool is adjusted to slide around the lifter,
between the spring retainer and the block, below the valve. Then the
camshaft is rotated to lower the lifter. The keepers are removed from
the valve stem, and the valve removed from the block. Then on to the
next valve.




- Do you think that this is an intelligent way if you consider what for
the spring is compressed. Yes, to remove the valve. Now we do have to
look way back to the early days of 4 strokes and see how valves were
inserted. In T-heads (a sub kind of flat heads) there was a big plug
opposide of the valve throug what the valve could be pulled out without
removing the head. Now wouldn't it be much cleverer to open that plug
and use a C-clamp spring compressor?

It is much easier to use the camshaft lobe to compress the spring. The
tool merely keeps the spring compressed as the camshaft is rotated
further to allow valve keeper removal.




If you talk about flatheads without that plug, things don't change,
because the head is removed and you can easily use the C-clamp
compressor.

Valve servicing was often done with the engine in place, with manifolds
and other equipment still installed. The smaller tool was much less clumsy.



Sorry if I haven't explained it so you can visualize what I mean!!


Hope you could visualize what I meant. :-)

I'd also like to know where your knowledge is from that this tools is
for compressing automobile valve springs.

Many small gasoline engines still used the side-valve design here in the
US.

Dale Scroggins


Slight flaw in your reasoning, Dale, if it isn't used for compressing
the spring, how does one replace the valve & keepers? All the ones I
use are fully capable of compressing the springs.

Tom

While this tool would be capable of compressing the springs for valve
installation, I seldom used one on installation. It's easier for me to
compress the spring in a small vise, "mouse" the spring with a couple of
pieces of safety wire, install the spring, valves, and keepers, then cut
and remove the safety wire. The keepers are much easier to install with
no tool in the way, and everything is much easier to align.

My comments weren't based on reasoning or theory, but experience. The
technique I described isn't the only way to remove the valves using the
tool. It is, in my experience, the fastest way to remove side valves.
When customers were paying by the hour, fast was good.

Dale Scroggins


Why would you wish to remove the springs if you are only grinding
the valves?

Tom

Who said I was only grinding valves? It isn't worth opening the engine
in most cases just to grind valves. Might as well do it all.

Dale Scroggins


Really? LOL. I'm sure someone with a burnt valve in a straight eight
would be impressed with your philosophy. Still, someone who wires
springs
prior to installing has to be an expert...

Tom

Tom,

I have a distinct impression you are suspicious of my knowledge and
skills as to engine repairs. I'm always open to learning from someone
with more knowledge and experience than I have. If you could give me
some idea of your background in this, I'd appreciate it. If your
experience exceeds my forty+ years, my level of education, or my native
intelligence, then I will welcome your comments. So far, I haven't been
impressed.

Dale Scroggins

Dale Scroggins wrote:

Tom wrote:
Dale Scroggins wrote:

Tom wrote:

Dale Scroggins wrote:


Tom wrote:


Dale Scroggins wrote:



Nick Müller wrote:



Peter DiVergilio wrote:





where access is through a removable plate, it's the
easiest tool to use which will not bend things out of whack.


I've been looking at old plans of automobile engines of that time, with
flat head (hanging valves; if you also use this expression). I think we
are talking about the same type of construction.

And here comes the point where things get at least strange:
- Hold the tool so, that the lower fork touches the spring retainer from
the underside. That's OK. Now (practically, the other way round is/was
better) you have to force and wag the upper fork between spring (under
tension!) and valve head.

No. The tool is not intended to compress the valve spring, but merely
HOLD it in the compressed position. The valve cover on the side of the
block is removed. A valve is selected that is already open, with the
spring compressed. The tool is adjusted to slide around the lifter,
between the spring retainer and the block, below the valve. Then the
camshaft is rotated to lower the lifter. The keepers are removed from
the valve stem, and the valve removed from the block. Then on to the
next valve.




- Do you think that this is an intelligent way if you consider what for
the spring is compressed. Yes, to remove the valve. Now we do have to
look way back to the early days of 4 strokes and see how valves were
inserted. In T-heads (a sub kind of flat heads) there was a big plug
opposide of the valve throug what the valve could be pulled out without
removing the head. Now wouldn't it be much cleverer to open that plug
and use a C-clamp spring compressor?

It is much easier to use the camshaft lobe to compress the spring. The
tool merely keeps the spring compressed as the camshaft is rotated
further to allow valve keeper removal.




If you talk about flatheads without that plug, things don't change,
because the head is removed and you can easily use the C-clamp
compressor.

Valve servicing was often done with the engine in place, with manifolds
and other equipment still installed. The smaller tool was much less clumsy.



Sorry if I haven't explained it so you can visualize what I mean!!


Hope you could visualize what I meant. :-)

I'd also like to know where your knowledge is from that this tools is
for compressing automobile valve springs.

Many small gasoline engines still used the side-valve design here in the
US.

Dale Scroggins


Slight flaw in your reasoning, Dale, if it isn't used for compressing
the spring, how does one replace the valve & keepers? All the ones I
use are fully capable of compressing the springs.

Tom

While this tool would be capable of compressing the springs for valve
installation, I seldom used one on installation. It's easier for me to
compress the spring in a small vise, "mouse" the spring with a couple of
pieces of safety wire, install the spring, valves, and keepers, then cut
and remove the safety wire. The keepers are much easier to install with
no tool in the way, and everything is much easier to align.

My comments weren't based on reasoning or theory, but experience. The
technique I described isn't the only way to remove the valves using the
tool. It is, in my experience, the fastest way to remove side valves.
When customers were paying by the hour, fast was good.

Dale Scroggins


Why would you wish to remove the springs if you are only grinding
the valves?

Tom

Who said I was only grinding valves? It isn't worth opening the engine
in most cases just to grind valves. Might as well do it all.

Dale Scroggins


Really? LOL. I'm sure someone with a burnt valve in a straight eight
would be impressed with your philosophy. Still, someone who wires
springs
prior to installing has to be an expert...

Tom

Tom,

I have a distinct impression you are suspicious of my knowledge and
skills as to engine repairs. I'm always open to learning from someone
with more knowledge and experience than I have. If you could give me
some idea of your background in this, I'd appreciate it. If your
experience exceeds my forty+ years, my level of education, or my native
intelligence, then I will welcome your comments. So far, I haven't been
impressed.

Dale Scroggins

As a repairer by replacement I'm sure you have no peers.
As for your level of education in these matters, I'd be
impressed with any text that you can quote stating wiring
springs for installation as acceptable & economic practice.
As for you native intelligence, not sure what your ethnic
origins has to do with the subject at hand.

As for myself, I couldn't care one way or other what
impresses you.

Tom

Dale Scroggins wrote:

No. The tool is not intended to compress the valve spring, but merely
HOLD it in the compressed position. The valve cover on the side of the
block is removed. A valve is selected that is already open, with the
spring compressed. The tool is adjusted to slide around the lifter,
between the spring retainer and the block, below the valve.

Ah!! From the other side!
It doesn't compress the spring by gripping the spring on it's both ends,
but going between valve retainer and somwhere in direction to the cam.
It doens't compress, but support the spring retainer. In the way a car
jack would.

Thank you very much for your explanation, I got it now. The tool does
what it is supposed to do.
My fault that I thought it grips the spring.
I was on the way to scan sectional drawings to prove that you can't
reach both ends of the spring in most cases. But the cam side end is
enough.
All that, only if you have side valves.


Thanks again,
Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...