I just bought ten gallons of ISO 10 hydraulic fluid to try as flood coolant.
I am just now draining out the rancid water soluble and drying out the sump
before I fill it with the ISO 10. There are two drains to my sump and I am
going to block both so that the way oil cannot get to the sump and mix with
the ISO 10. It (the way oil off of the X,Y and Z slides) will collect in
the trough around the base and I will have to keep it cleaned out. I have an
enclosed table and it is possible for me to drain the ISO 10 directly to
the sump via a holding strainer to allow the rough filtering out of cuttings
before they find their way to the sump.

I know that one of the guys already uses hydraulic fluid as a coolant so I
am sure it will work but I would invite any comment on what I'm doing, that
may pre warn me of potential problems or any pro or con comments.

**************

In cleaning my sump I did make one very cheerful discovery (That is, if you
can find anything cheerful about cleaning a sump!!) Well anyway usually if I
have any liquids to vacuum I use my wet/dry shop vac but there is always the
inevitable messy cleanup of the vac. So this time I decided to attach the
vac to the poring spout of an empty 5 gal way oil can and a short length of
garden hose into the air vent hole on the 5 gal can. It worled like a charm!

The garden hose slipped easily into the sump's air vent holes and I was able
to get into every crack and cranny. The mess was confined to the 5 gal can
and it was easily emptied when near to full. All round, a hell of a lot
better experience then having the liquid go into the vac.

Bill D

In article , William G Darby wrote:

I just bought ten gallons of ISO 10 hydraulic fluid to try as flood coolant.

I won't call you 'crazy', but I think you're taking a bit of a risk.
Hydraulic fluid is a lubricant, not a cutting oil.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot.
|
http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 22:38:35 -0400, "William G Darby"
wrote:


to get into every crack and cranny. The mess was confined to the 5 gal can
and it was easily emptied when near to full. All round, a hell of a lot
better experience then having the liquid go into the vac.


Good idea here, I'm going to copy it.

IMHO, oil is great in production machines, especially screw machines.
But I think you're crazy using it for HSM, one of, two of, kind of
work. You'll soon have a light coat of oil over your entire shop which
will attract dust and become grime. Unless you spend forever cleaning
the oil off of everything.

I'd really like to know what you think after using it for a year.

Karl

In article , William G Darby wrote:

I just bought ten gallons of ISO 10 hydraulic fluid to try as flood coolant.

Oh yeah... another point is that that oil won't be as heat-stable as
water soluble coolant. On a small machine using HSS tooling, no biggie, but
when you're running a machine that needs to work for a living... I think you
might find yourself disappointed. Still, it's a relatively cheap
experiment.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot.
|
http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 22:38:35 -0400, "William G Darby"
wrote:


to get into every crack and cranny. The mess was confined to the 5 gal
can
and it was easily emptied when near to full. All round, a hell of a lot
better experience then having the liquid go into the vac.


Good idea here, I'm going to copy it.

Just a word to the wise: The air vent hole is a little to small to get the
garden hose into. I found that if I just forced my funnel down into it that
the hole easily expanded enough to accept the hose and after a bit the
plastic tries to resume it's original shape (size) and you wind up having a
devil of a time getting the hose back out.


IMHO, oil is great in production machines, especially screw machines.
But I think you're crazy using it for HSM, one of, two of, kind of
work. You'll soon have a light coat of oil over your entire shop which
will attract dust and become grime. Unless you spend forever cleaning
the oil off of everything.

It may seem funny but I do very little one or two of's as I am always
striving for production work and I already have rancid soluble all over
every tool and thing in my shop. Such that I have to wash after touching
"ANYTHING' in the shop. Otherwise I wind up applying "the ointment" (Lamisil
C Cortate 1% AA)

Hydraulic oil could not possibly be worse.. We'll see!


I'd really like to know what you think after using it for a year.

Karl

"William G Darby" wrote in message ...
I just bought ten gallons of ISO 10 hydraulic fluid to try as flood coolant.
I am just now draining out the rancid water soluble and drying out the sump
before I fill it with the ISO 10. There are two drains to my sump and I am
going to block both so that the way oil cannot get to the sump and mix with
the ISO 10. It (the way oil off of the X,Y and Z slides) will collect in
the trough around the base and I will have to keep it cleaned out. I have an
enclosed table and it is possible for me to drain the ISO 10 directly to
the sump via a holding strainer to allow the rough filtering out of cuttings
before they find their way to the sump.

I know that one of the guys already uses hydraulic fluid as a coolant so I
am sure it will work but I would invite any comment on what I'm doing, that
may pre warn me of potential problems or any pro or con comments.

There are pure oil "metalworking fluids" like Mobil Omicron and Mobil
Omega that have proper cutting-oil properties. According to the sheet
Omicron also claims application as a hydraulic oil.

I use Omicron for flood coolant on my lathe because I am not willing
to subject the lathe to anything else. It'll get used for a week and
then may sit under its bedsheet for months. Likewise my old K&T mill
because it is "leaky" and the soluble gets into the gear cases and
make a mess. The Omicron is more useful for clearing chips in an
awkward cut than as a coolant per se because it smokes at a low
temperature. In my experience the chip clearing is more useful
anyway as it is the key to getting a predictable finish.

I am strictly an amateur here so apply your own advice filter...

Bob

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 22:38:35 -0400, "William G Darby"
wrote:

I just bought ten gallons of ISO 10 hydraulic fluid to try as flood coolant.
I am just now draining out the rancid water soluble and drying out the sump
before I fill it with the ISO 10. There are two drains to my sump and I am
going to block both so that the way oil cannot get to the sump and mix with
the ISO 10. It (the way oil off of the X,Y and Z slides) will collect in
the trough around the base and I will have to keep it cleaned out. I have an
enclosed table and it is possible for me to drain the ISO 10 directly to
the sump via a holding strainer to allow the rough filtering out of cuttings
before they find their way to the sump.

I know that one of the guys already uses hydraulic fluid as a coolant so I
am sure it will work but I would invite any comment on what I'm doing, that
may pre warn me of potential problems or any pro or con comments.

**************

In cleaning my sump I did make one very cheerful discovery (That is, if you
can find anything cheerful about cleaning a sump!!) Well anyway usually if I
have any liquids to vacuum I use my wet/dry shop vac but there is always the
inevitable messy cleanup of the vac. So this time I decided to attach the
vac to the poring spout of an empty 5 gal way oil can and a short length of
garden hose into the air vent hole on the 5 gal can. It worled like a charm!

The garden hose slipped easily into the sump's air vent holes and I was able
to get into every crack and cranny. The mess was confined to the 5 gal can
and it was easily emptied when near to full. All round, a hell of a lot
better experience then having the liquid go into the vac.

Bill D



In the dark recesses of my mind I recall that one of the group's more
experience contributors, Fitch Williams, recommended a 50/50 mix of
hydraulic oil and paint thinner as a milling flood liquid. I never
tried it myself but Fitch never gave us a bum steer so I wouldn't
hesitate to try it if I need it.

I looked it up with google and here's what Fitch had to say:

"On the Mill the fluid needs to be more viscous and to move with
higher velocity to move the chips out of the way. Straight oil is too
thick for my coolant pump so I use a mixture of the cheapest hydraulic
oil I could find ($19.95 for 5 gallons) and mineral spirits (paint
thinner). The mixture starts out a bit more than 50% oil and over the
course of a year, some of the thinner evaporates out and it gets
thicker. When it gets to thick to blow the chips out of the way, I
add more thinner. Not to scientific, but it works just fine and the
mill never grows black algae, the stuff never develops growths in the
tank, doesn't start to smell like something died in the tank, and
nothing rusts."

HTH Rick Renner

In article , William G Darby wrote:

It may seem funny but I do very little one or two of's as I am always
striving for production work and I already have rancid soluble all over
every tool and thing in my shop. Such that I have to wash after touching
"ANYTHING' in the shop. Otherwise I wind up applying "the ointment" (Lamisil
C Cortate 1% AA)

I can't imagine why you have such trouble. I've been using the same
bucket of mixed soluble oil in my shed for *years*, and I have no problems.
Doesn't smell bad, doesn't cause any skin problems... nothing. I damned
near *bathe* in the stuff at work, though it's not nearly as old at work.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot.
|
http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada

Water soluable can get to be a real pain if its used in the deep south
with the humidity and temps. It almost goes rancid overnight. All
kinds of things grow in it here in Alabama. I too had problems if it
got rancid, as to itching if it got on me. As long as it was fresh I
did not have problems. Thats the biggest reason for my switching to
petro based fluids.

On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 16:25:17 -0400, Mike Graham
wrote:

x-In article , William G Darby wrote:
x-
x- It may seem funny but I do very little one or two of's as I am always
x- striving for production work and I already have rancid soluble all over
x- every tool and thing in my shop. Such that I have to wash after touching
x- "ANYTHING' in the shop. Otherwise I wind up applying "the ointment" (Lamisil
x- C Cortate 1% AA)
x-
x- I can't imagine why you have such trouble. I've been using the same
x-bucket of mixed soluble oil in my shed for *years*, and I have no problems.
x-Doesn't smell bad, doesn't cause any skin problems... nothing. I damned
x-near *bathe* in the stuff at work, though it's not nearly as old at work.

--
Visit my website:
http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Contents: foundry and general metal working and lots of related projects.
Regards
Roy aka Chipmaker // Foxeye
Opinions are strictly those of my wife....I have had no input whatsoever.
Remove capital A from chipmAkr for correct email address

On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 21:35:26 GMT, Roy Hauer
wrote:

Water soluable can get to be a real pain if its used in the deep south
with the humidity and temps. It almost goes rancid overnight. All
kinds of things grow in it here in Alabama. I too had problems if it
got rancid, as to itching if it got on me. As long as it was fresh I
did not have problems. Thats the biggest reason for my switching to
petro based fluids.

On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 16:25:17 -0400, Mike Graham
wrote:

x-In article , William G Darby wrote:
x-
x- It may seem funny but I do very little one or two of's as I am always
x- striving for production work and I already have rancid soluble all over
x- every tool and thing in my shop. Such that I have to wash after touching
x- "ANYTHING' in the shop. Otherwise I wind up applying "the ointment" (Lamisil
x- C Cortate 1% AA)
x-
x- I can't imagine why you have such trouble. I've been using the same
x-bucket of mixed soluble oil in my shed for *years*, and I have no problems.
x-Doesn't smell bad, doesn't cause any skin problems... nothing. I damned
x-near *bathe* in the stuff at work, though it's not nearly as old at work.
I've found that some oils go rancid much faster than others. The stuff
I use now, blasocut, has never gone rancid. It has no bacteriocides
either. In fact, it is non-toxic. Tastes like **** though... And it
doesn't change the way your coffee looks if you already have cream in
it.
ERS

In article , Eric R Snow says...

...The stuff
I use now, blasocut, has never gone rancid. It has no bacteriocides
either. In fact, it is non-toxic. Tastes like **** though... And it
doesn't change the way your coffee looks if you already have cream in
it.

I'm not asking about this. Nope. Nuh uh. No way....

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Eric R Snow
says...

...The stuff
I use now, blasocut, has never gone rancid. It has no bacteriocides
either. In fact, it is non-toxic. Tastes like **** though... And it
doesn't change the way your coffee looks if you already have cream in
it.

I'm not asking about this. Nope. Nuh uh. No way....

Jim

Jim .... you've got a good sense of ha ha ,,, not sure how good your stomach
is, but the ha ha is working fine!

Bill

On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 16:25:17 -0400, Mike Graham
wrote:

In article , William G Darby wrote:

It may seem funny but I do very little one or two of's as I am always
striving for production work and I already have rancid soluble all over
every tool and thing in my shop. Such that I have to wash after touching
"ANYTHING' in the shop. Otherwise I wind up applying "the ointment" (Lamisil
C Cortate 1% AA)

I can't imagine why you have such trouble. I've been using the same
bucket of mixed soluble oil in my shed for *years*, and I have no problems.
Doesn't smell bad, doesn't cause any skin problems... nothing. I damned
near *bathe* in the stuff at work, though it's not nearly as old at work.

My experience with soluble oil is that it's great as long as it
never gets infected. They had never had any problems at my previous
employer for years (like in 50+). Then while I was working there I
opened the back of the Cinci mill one summer day and saw fuzz growing
all over the works in there. From then on we had nothing but trouble
with the soluble oil going bad in less than 6 months. It didn't stink
so much as simply went bad. It would turn brown and if left long
enough all the oil would just fall out of the water and turn to sludge
in the bottom of the tank. We never did manage to stop it while I was
there (and I went to extremes trying to clean everything before
putting a new batch in there). We even went so far as to try a semi
synthetic oil which was what was in the mills when I bought them. I
sold the old Cinci not long after that but I've still got the Abene.
After flushing the system and putting in a good quality anti rust
soluble oil I've not had any problems since. My only guess is that the
synthetic (which had lots of things in it including pine oil) finally
killed all the bacteria.
Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX

Do you think trouble with the soluable oil water mixture is a
North/South thing?

I've never had a problem - Minnesota
( my surface grinder sump has got to be two years old)

Mike Graham has not seen it - Canada


Or have we just been lucky? I've seen many from the south 1/2 of the
USA say nothing but trouble. Anyone in the north having problems?


Just a wild ass guess


Karl

In article , Karl Townsend wrote:

Do you think trouble with the soluable oil water mixture is a
North/South thing?

I've never had a problem - Minnesota
( my surface grinder sump has got to be two years old)

Mike Graham has not seen it - Canada

Bill Darby is in Ottawa - even farther north than I am.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot.
|
http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada

On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 05:21:11 -0400, Mike Graham
wrote:

In article , William G Darby wrote:

I just bought ten gallons of ISO 10 hydraulic fluid to try as flood coolant.

I won't call you 'crazy', but I think you're taking a bit of a risk.
Hydraulic fluid is a lubricant, not a cutting oil.

But it does work ok as a cutting oil. Not optimum, but ok.

Gunner


"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

I would say it has to be related to temp extremes.
I can pressure wash and then wash again and rinse my concrete walks
and patio slab with clorox, and within 48 hours mold and mildew is
already starting to grow back. Its the heat and humidity IMHO that is
detrimental to the water soluable oils.

Just a thought, its pretty common for folks around the south to use
zinc or copper strips on their roofs ridge cap, so exposure to weather
leaches out the compounds that kill off algae etc. I wonder if putting
some strips or pieces of copper or zinc in the resivoir with water
soluable oils would help eliminate this critter growth.

I admit it does get hot and it also gets humid up noth, but its not
like in the deep south by any means. I wonder how it lasts in the SW
sections of the US.......

When I lived up north, I was able to store diesel fuel and heating oil
for very long periods of time. Here it does not take long for the
diesel fuel to start to grow critters in it, and it sure does not
store very good for any length of time.

Has to be temp / humidty affected.


On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 05:56:24 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

x-Do you think trouble with the soluable oil water mixture is a
x-North/South thing?
x-
x-I've never had a problem - Minnesota
x-( my surface grinder sump has got to be two years old)
x-
x-Mike Graham has not seen it - Canada
x-
x-
x-Or have we just been lucky? I've seen many from the south 1/2 of the
x-USA say nothing but trouble. Anyone in the north having problems?
x-
x-
x-Just a wild ass guess
x-
x-
x-Karl
x-
x-
x-

--
Visit my website:
http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Contents: foundry and general metal working and lots of related projects.
Regards
Roy aka Chipmaker // Foxeye
Opinions are strictly those of my wife....I have had no input whatsoever.
Remove capital A from chipmAkr for correct email address

"Tom Quackenbush" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 22:38:35 -0400, "William G Darby"
wrote:

Yer crazy !!!


Thanks Tom!!!!! That's what I asked for... and you gave it to me!!
Seriously,, if the hydraulic oil dosen't work out I'll replace it with
Omicron or the nearest thing to it that I can find here in Canada. (Would
anyone know what the equivalent stuff would be from Sunluight oil, Shell,
Petro Can, or Esso)

Thanks for all the great replies guys!

Bill




Sorry. I was waiting for someone with something useful to say (not
me) to preface their remarks with that, but couldn't wait any longer.

Apparently no else here shares my low sense of humor. : (

R,
Tom Q.

p.s. Good thread.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 20:42:14 -0400, "William G Darby"
wrote:


"Tom Quackenbush" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 22:38:35 -0400, "William G Darby"
wrote:

Yer crazy !!!


Thanks Tom!!!!! That's what I asked for... and you gave it to me!!
Seriously,, if the hydraulic oil dosen't work out I'll replace it with
Omicron or the nearest thing to it that I can find here in Canada. (Would
anyone know what the equivalent stuff would be from Sunluight oil, Shell,
Petro Can, or Esso)

Thanks for all the great replies guys!

Bill

Bill, I've been using Fitch's receipe (see Rick Renner's post) for a
couple of years on the milling machine. I've had no problems with it,
and everything in the shop isn't covered with a film of oil. (The
floor around the mill is another story, but that's what kitty litter
is for.)

Since the other half of the shop is set up for woodworking, I try to
minimize the sources of moisture in the shop. To me, using soluable
oils is just asking for rust on the woodwqorking tools.

Regards,
Ed Bailen






Sorry. I was waiting for someone with something useful to say (not
me) to preface their remarks with that, but couldn't wait any longer.

Apparently no else here shares my low sense of humor. : (

R,
Tom Q.

p.s. Good thread.

"Ed Bailen" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 20:42:14 -0400, "William G Darby"
wrote:


"Tom Quackenbush" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 22:38:35 -0400, "William G Darby"
wrote:

Yer crazy !!!


Thanks Tom!!!!! That's what I asked for... and you gave it to me!!
Seriously,, if the hydraulic oil dosen't work out I'll replace it with
Omicron or the nearest thing to it that I can find here in Canada. (Would
anyone know what the equivalent stuff would be from Sunluight oil, Shell,
Petro Can, or Esso)

Thanks for all the great replies guys!

Bill

Bill, I've been using Fitch's receipe (see Rick Renner's post) for a
couple of years on the milling machine. I've had no problems with it,
and everything in the shop isn't covered with a film of oil. (The
floor around the mill is another story, but that's what kitty litter
is for.)

Since the other half of the shop is set up for woodworking, I try to
minimize the sources of moisture in the shop. To me, using soluable
oils is just asking for rust on the woodwqorking tools.

Regards,
Ed Bailen

Thanks ED

Well I have been doing a lot of yakking with Michael Hanz about the use of
Omicron and meanwhile I have finished installing a half inch high dam to
keep way oil out of my sump. It seems to be working as planned. So right
now I can go with hydraulic fluid or Omicron as a flood from my sump or the
fog buster that Michael and Carl speak so highly of. If I can figure a
way to get the Fog buster going then I'll try it first.

Bill D

Ps thanks for the steer towards Fitch's system. Fitch and I have spoken
about it!!