I tried in rec.woodworking but nobody could help. I want to build a pine
timber straight staircase. My stringers are 4 X 12 and the treads are 3 X
11. The wood is freshly sawn so I don't think moritising the treads into the
stringers will be a good idea because of shrinkage. I was thinking of simply
lag bolting the treads in place and then everything could be tightened as it
dried. Threaded rod through the treads would be nice but drilling a 4' long
hole through the 3" thick treads would be tricky. Any other ideas out there,
I don't want to re-invent the wheel.
Thanks

If the pine is the usual modern quick-grown stuff I think I would wait
for the timber to dry at least to the ambient humidity where you intend
to build the staircase. Unless you want a spiral staircase that is!
Or is there a timber yard where you could have it kiln-dried?
Just my tuppence.
Charles

This stuff would take years to dry. and I am building a house and are
getting tired of using the ladder inside.
I could get it kiln dried but it is very expensive.

wrote in message
oups.com...
If the pine is the usual modern quick-grown stuff I think I would wait
for the timber to dry at least to the ambient humidity where you intend
to build the staircase. Unless you want a spiral staircase that is!
Or is there a timber yard where you could have it kiln-dried?
Just my tuppence.
Charles

Could you build it "temporary" - how about putting it together with the
treads resting on "temporary" brackets. 1" square with 3 x 2 1/2" no. 8
woodscrews should do it. Chamfer the ends you see when climbing if it
bugs you.
Attach the treads from below the brackets with 2x similar woodscrews.
Position one stringer 1 1/2" "wider" than your final intended staircase
width.
Wait some years until timber dries.
Rebate the stringers to 3/4" depth and build to the width you first
thought of.
Of course, you could just crack a bottle of single malt and leave it
alone.
All the best,
Charles

A good way to be able to creep up on it would be to build it with dados and
wedges.
I have seen this in a few books about stairs. It's a way to blind fasten,
and can actually be done with few or no fasteners at all.

This might be hard to explain...
Dado the thickness of your tread into your stringer - stop the dado for the
front of the tread.
Remove additional material on the top edge of the dado tapered about 1 to 8
(larger opening in the back).
Install tread in stringer's dado.
Make wedge to fit remaining dado, hammer in to tighten. Tack/screw wedge to
keep from moving.

Obviously you would make the wedged dado in one go, using a jig of some
sort.

Basically the treads are sitting in dados and held in by wedges, you can do
the same with the risers. You have to install from the top down with the
riser held vertically by the tread but still locked in with a wedge.

If someone else has a more elegant description please chime in!

Good luck, and post some pics of your progress!

Eide

"habbi" wrote in message
...
I tried in rec.woodworking but nobody could help. I want to build a pine
timber straight staircase. My stringers are 4 X 12 and the treads are 3 X
11. The wood is freshly sawn so I don't think moritising the treads into
the
stringers will be a good idea because of shrinkage. I was thinking of
simply
lag bolting the treads in place and then everything could be tightened as
it
dried. Threaded rod through the treads would be nice but drilling a 4'
long
hole through the 3" thick treads would be tricky. Any other ideas out
there,
I don't want to re-invent the wheel.
Thanks

Why not mortise the treads in then use two threaded rods going across
between stringers just below each tread?? I'd be inclined to drill and put
two half inch dowels in each end of the treads through into the stringer.
( belts and suspenders so to speak).
I am thinking that that lags would twist and loosen or cause splitting.
If the treaded rods appearance bothered you they could be hidden by a square
piece of 1.5 by 1.5 rabbeted out to capture the rod and enclose it under the
tread.
Randy
"habbi" wrote in message
...
I tried in rec.woodworking but nobody could help. I want to build a pine
timber straight staircase. My stringers are 4 X 12 and the treads are 3 X
11. The wood is freshly sawn so I don't think moritising the treads into
the
stringers will be a good idea because of shrinkage. I was thinking of
simply
lag bolting the treads in place and then everything could be tightened as
it
dried. Threaded rod through the treads would be nice but drilling a 4'
long
hole through the 3" thick treads would be tricky. Any other ideas out
there,
I don't want to re-invent the wheel.
Thanks

Threaded rod through the treads would be nice but drilling a 4' long
hole through the 3" thick treads would be tricky.

Why not mortise the treads in then use two threaded rods going across
between stringers just below each tread?? [...]
If the treaded rods appearance bothered you they could be hidden by
a square piece of 1.5 by 1.5 rabbeted out to capture the rod and
enclose it under the tread.

Another way to do this is to cut a dado along the length of your
tread the width and depth of your threaded rod, that way the rod
is hidden from the front without an additional piece, and it's a
lot easier than drilling. Centered on the bottom face if you're
using one, an inch or two in from each edge if you're using two,
say.

Or if you're going to eventually box these stairs in, you could
just put the threaded rod far enough back that it gets hidden by
the riser...
--Glenn Lyford

Habbi
Are these stairs open both sides, walled on one side, or walled on both
sides? If one or two sides are open I think that I would use an angle
bracket under the tread to the stringer and then allow the stringer to move
as the treads shrink. I would also use and oversized hole in the angle
bracket to allow a bit of movement. I'm also assuming here that the treads
are open without a riser. Are these a rustic looking stair or a fine
finished set? I'm also assuming that your not cutting the stairstep into
the stringers but attaching the treads to the face of the stringer.
lg
no neat sig line

"habbi" wrote in message
...
I tried in rec.woodworking but nobody could help. I want to build a pine
timber straight staircase. My stringers are 4 X 12 and the treads are 3 X
11. The wood is freshly sawn so I don't think moritising the treads into
the
stringers will be a good idea because of shrinkage. I was thinking of
simply
lag bolting the treads in place and then everything could be tightened as
it
dried. Threaded rod through the treads would be nice but drilling a 4'
long
hole through the 3" thick treads would be tricky. Any other ideas out
there,
I don't want to re-invent the wheel.
Thanks

On Fri, 27 May 2005 21:06:31 GMT, the inscrutable "habbi"
spake:

This stuff would take years to dry. and I am building a house and are
getting tired of using the ladder inside.
I could get it kiln dried but it is very expensive.

So build a normal set of stairs for use until the timber dries.


--
REMEMBER: First you pillage, then you burn.
---
http://diversify.com Full Service Website Development

Hey Habbi,

Common method instead of drilling a hole, is to router a slot for the
treaded rod.


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Fri, 27 May 2005 20:37:02 GMT, "habbi"
wrote:

I tried in rec.woodworking but nobody could help. I want to build a pine
timber straight staircase. My stringers are 4 X 12 and the treads are 3 X
11. The wood is freshly sawn so I don't think moritising the treads into the
stringers will be a good idea because of shrinkage. I was thinking of simply
lag bolting the treads in place and then everything could be tightened as it
dried. Threaded rod through the treads would be nice but drilling a 4' long
hole through the 3" thick treads would be tricky. Any other ideas out there,
I don't want to re-invent the wheel.
Thanks

habbi wrote:
I want to build a pine
timber straight staircase. The wood is freshly sawn so Any other ideas out there

Through tenons with wedges. If wou're a glutton for punishment, sliding
dovetails.


Kevin Gallimore

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I should have mentioned the stairs are all open with no risers. They will be
seen from behind and from the underside when going down a second set of
these stairs to the lower level of the house. I thought about the dado for
the threaded rod but like I said it will be seen from underneath.

wrote in message
ps.com...
Threaded rod through the treads would be nice but drilling a 4' long
hole through the 3" thick treads would be tricky.

Why not mortise the treads in then use two threaded rods going across
between stringers just below each tread?? [...]
If the treaded rods appearance bothered you they could be hidden by
a square piece of 1.5 by 1.5 rabbeted out to capture the rod and
enclose it under the tread.

Another way to do this is to cut a dado along the length of your
tread the width and depth of your threaded rod, that way the rod
is hidden from the front without an additional piece, and it's a
lot easier than drilling. Centered on the bottom face if you're
using one, an inch or two in from each edge if you're using two,
say.

Or if you're going to eventually box these stairs in, you could
just put the threaded rod far enough back that it gets hidden by
the riser...
--Glenn Lyford

I am not sure on stair terminology but when you say riser do you mean the
the sides of the stairs or the back where your toes hit when going up them.
If you mean the sides then that sound like a good idea. I could plug the
holes with wood plug as well. As for the nut do you think a hex nut
squeezing on the round side of the hole would be fine.


"Tom Quackenbush" wrote in message
...
habbi wrote:

I tried in rec.woodworking but nobody could help. I want to build a pine
timber straight staircase. My stringers are 4 X 12 and the treads are 3 X
11. The wood is freshly sawn so I don't think moritising the treads into
the
stringers will be a good idea because of shrinkage. I was thinking of
simply
lag bolting the treads in place and then everything could be tightened as
it
dried. Threaded rod through the treads would be nice but drilling a 4'
long
hole through the 3" thick treads would be tricky. Any other ideas out
there,
I don't want to re-invent the wheel.
Thanks

Rather than running a threaded rod the full length of the tread,
why not use 3" or 4" bolts into each end of the tread, though the
riser? Route or cut a pocket from the underside of the tread to hold a
captured nut (or threaded dowel, etc.). In addition to being easier
than drilling a 4' long hole, those bolt heads will look a lot nicer
than the protruding all thread.

I don't know how you're securing the risers, top & bottom. I assume
that it can accomadate the risers getting a little closer together
over time?

R,
Tom Q.
Remove bogusinfo to reply.

How big should they be? Would the wedge ever break out the part of the end
grain of the tread it is pushing on?
Do you know of any sites with pictures?

"axolotl" wrote in message
...
habbi wrote:
I want to build a pine
timber straight staircase. The wood is freshly sawn so Any other ideas
out there

Through tenons with wedges. If wou're a glutton for punishment, sliding
dovetails.


Kevin Gallimore

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I remember putting together some IKEA stuff with these fasteners. Anyway Lee
Valley's are to small, any idea where to buy larger ones for 1/2 or 5/8"
thread?
"Tom Quackenbush" wrote in message
news
habbi wrote:

I am not sure on stair terminology but when you say riser do you mean the
the sides of the stairs or the back where your toes hit when going up
them.
If you mean the sides then that sound like a good idea. I could plug the
holes with wood plug as well. As for the nut do you think a hex nut
squeezing on the round side of the hole would be fine.


No, your terminology is fine, mine was screwed up. Read "stringer"
where I wrote "riser".

Hex nuts would probably be OK, but something like this would be
better:


http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...842,41269&ap=1

R,
Tom Q.


Remove bogusinfo to reply.

habbi wrote:
How big should they be?

As big as they need to be.

Would the wedge ever break out the part of the end
grain of the tread it is pushing on?

It depends.

A lot of this will depend on the wood you are using. "Pine" covers a
multitude of sins. You may want to consider using a hardwood to reduce
the wear on the treads.

Do you know of any sites with pictures?

Here's a picture with a type:

http://www.tnloghomes.com/k-springs/stair1.shtml

I'm beginning to like the tapered half dovetail better. Once you made a
set of templates, it should go fairly quickly.

If you look for stairs in timber framed houses, you may find some
interesting ideas.


Kevin Gallimore


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Very nice, The only problem I see is the tenons shrinking and leaving a gap
although it would only be visible from the outside, but as long as they stay
tight the gap may add to the rustic appearance.

"axolotl" wrote in message
...
habbi wrote:
How big should they be?

As big as they need to be.

Would the wedge ever break out the part of the end
grain of the tread it is pushing on?

It depends.

A lot of this will depend on the wood you are using. "Pine" covers a
multitude of sins. You may want to consider using a hardwood to reduce
the wear on the treads.

Do you know of any sites with pictures?

Here's a picture with a type:

http://www.tnloghomes.com/k-springs/stair1.shtml

I'm beginning to like the tapered half dovetail better. Once you made a
set of templates, it should go fairly quickly.

If you look for stairs in timber framed houses, you may find some
interesting ideas.


Kevin Gallimore


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News==----
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Newsgroups
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Check out this page, the third picture down, I think. No through mortises,
but wedges that can be tightened.

Eide

"habbi" wrote in message
...
Very nice, The only problem I see is the tenons shrinking and leaving a
gap
although it would only be visible from the outside, but as long as they
stay
tight the gap may add to the rustic appearance.

"axolotl" wrote in message
...
habbi wrote:
How big should they be?

As big as they need to be.

Would the wedge ever break out the part of the end
grain of the tread it is pushing on?

It depends.

A lot of this will depend on the wood you are using. "Pine" covers a
multitude of sins. You may want to consider using a hardwood to reduce
the wear on the treads.

Do you know of any sites with pictures?

Here's a picture with a type:

http://www.tnloghomes.com/k-springs/stair1.shtml

I'm beginning to like the tapered half dovetail better. Once you made a
set of templates, it should go fairly quickly.

If you look for stairs in timber framed houses, you may find some
interesting ideas.


Kevin Gallimore


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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Newsgroups
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=----

Oops, see previous post...
http://www.stairsandrails.com/box.htm
Eide

"habbi" wrote in message
...
Very nice, The only problem I see is the tenons shrinking and leaving a
gap
although it would only be visible from the outside, but as long as they
stay
tight the gap may add to the rustic appearance.

"axolotl" wrote in message
...
habbi wrote:
How big should they be?

As big as they need to be.

Would the wedge ever break out the part of the end
grain of the tread it is pushing on?

It depends.

A lot of this will depend on the wood you are using. "Pine" covers a
multitude of sins. You may want to consider using a hardwood to reduce
the wear on the treads.

Do you know of any sites with pictures?

Here's a picture with a type:

http://www.tnloghomes.com/k-springs/stair1.shtml

I'm beginning to like the tapered half dovetail better. Once you made a
set of templates, it should go fairly quickly.

If you look for stairs in timber framed houses, you may find some
interesting ideas.


Kevin Gallimore


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----

Lee valley has some 1/2" versions but are rather expensive ($30/4) but
they would not be to hard to make if you have access to a drill press or
mill. Stainless would be nice but I think you could get away with steel
or even aluminum for this use



http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...47&cat=1,41637

habbi wrote:
I remember putting together some IKEA stuff with these fasteners. Anyway Lee
Valley's are to small, any idea where to buy larger ones for 1/2 or 5/8"
thread?
"Tom Quackenbush" wrote in message
news
habbi wrote:


I am not sure on stair terminology but when you say riser do you mean the
the sides of the stairs or the back where your toes hit when going up

them.

If you mean the sides then that sound like a good idea. I could plug the
holes with wood plug as well. As for the nut do you think a hex nut
squeezing on the round side of the hole would be fine.


No, your terminology is fine, mine was screwed up. Read "stringer"
where I wrote "riser".

Hex nuts would probably be OK, but something like this would be
better:



http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...842,41269&ap=1

R,
Tom Q.

Remove bogusinfo to reply.

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:18:00 GMT, machineman
wrote:

Lee valley has some 1/2" versions but are rather expensive ($30/4) but
they would not be to hard to make if you have access to a drill press or
mill. Stainless would be nice but I think you could get away with steel
or even aluminum for this use



http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...47&cat=1,41637

I had an application several years ago on a camping trailer where the
pull out bed supports hooked into a cleat held on by two bolts screwed
into "T" nuts, that is except for one, which was secured by long wood
screws into the edge of the plywood counter. My solution to the
problem when these threatened to pull out, was to drill through the
counter and install hardwood dowels for the screws to thread into -
never came loose again, in fact, I suspect that the screws would have
failed in tension first.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada