Ok here is the deal and I am sure I am going to get slammed for this.
But i dont really care. I debated and seachered and read and went
through everything you are going through. I am brand new to welding,
at least I was about two weeks ago. I could not decide to go with TIG
or MIg as I am sure you cant either which is why you are reading this.

My application is general home use, with a goal of sculpture and
incorporating metal works into my woodworking.

I bought both a millermatic 135 (MIG) and a syncrowave 180 SD (TIG) at
the same time knowing that one would end up on Ebay. The way I look at
it as I got to try them both and will only take a slight hit as when I
sell as it will be in brand new condition........ anyway.

I bought the MIG first as I heard it was easy, and it is, but it is
also limited. different metals take different gasses and ifferent
feeder set-ups and different wire. If you need to adjust the wire
speed you need to stop welding and turn a knob..... All in all a good
process

NOW THE TIG..... :-)
I am not sure if all these people have been sniffing too much argon,
but TIG was relatively easy to learn. I am sure for thinner metals and
exotic metals it is much harder, but if you are looking at mig's you
aren't interested in reallhy thin or exotic metals anyway.

GO TIG..... I think some people wnat to make what they do seem hard to
make themselves feel better. Set the amps and go........

D wrote:


NOW THE TIG..... :-)
I am not sure if all these people have been sniffing too much argon,
but TIG was relatively easy to learn. I am sure for thinner metals and
exotic metals it is much harder, but if you are looking at mig's you
aren't interested in reallhy thin or exotic metals anyway.

GO TIG..... I think some people wnat to make what they do seem hard to
make themselves feel better. Set the amps and go........

Some people are just naturally talented with
some processes. That doesn't mean that it's
easy for everyone else.

I can still remember getting beat up after
high school shop class. The teacher had assigned
us to oxy/ace weld up a little sheetmetal
pyramid. I did mine in a few minutes and
the other kids just blew big holes in the
sheetmetal. Since I was kind of a nerd and
perhaps gloated too much, the other kids had
their revenge after class. Not only did I
learn to weld, I also learned to depreciate
my own abilities around peers. A habit that
has served me well over the years.

On 23 May 2005 19:04:10 -0700, "D" wrote:

Ok here is the deal and I am sure I am going to get slammed for this.
But i dont really care. I debated and seachered and read and went
through everything you are going through. I am brand new to welding,
at least I was about two weeks ago. I could not decide to go with TIG
or MIg as I am sure you cant either which is why you are reading this.

My application is general home use, with a goal of sculpture and
incorporating metal works into my woodworking.

I bought both a millermatic 135 (MIG) and a syncrowave 180 SD (TIG) at
the same time knowing that one would end up on Ebay. The way I look at
it as I got to try them both and will only take a slight hit as when I
sell as it will be in brand new condition........ anyway.

I bought the MIG first as I heard it was easy, and it is, but it is
also limited. different metals take different gasses and ifferent
feeder set-ups and different wire. If you need to adjust the wire
speed you need to stop welding and turn a knob..... All in all a good
process

NOW THE TIG..... :-)
I am not sure if all these people have been sniffing too much argon,
but TIG was relatively easy to learn. I am sure for thinner metals and
exotic metals it is much harder, but if you are looking at mig's you
aren't interested in reallhy thin or exotic metals anyway.

GO TIG..... I think some people wnat to make what they do seem hard to
make themselves feel better. Set the amps and go........

TIG probably is the better choice for what you're doing. MIG is
much better suited for some jobs, though. A notable example is
autobody work -- which does involve fairly thin metal.

In general, TIG is more versatile, MIG is a lot faster and results
in less heat distortion because it is so fast. It is also much
easier to make vertical and overhead welds with MIG than with TIG,
e.g. when building a trailer.

My go-to for really thin metal is still oxy-acetylene. I know there
are those who can TIG beercans together, but I'm not one of them. I
can do it with a torch, though.

I own MIG, TIG, Oxyfuel and I lay far more metal with the MIG. I goes like
this in metal deposit with me, mig, stick, tig then the gas setup REMOVES
some metal, nothing like the blue handle wrench.
"D" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ok here is the deal and I am sure I am going to get slammed for this.
But i dont really care. I debated and seachered and read and went
through everything you are going through. I am brand new to welding,
at least I was about two weeks ago. I could not decide to go with TIG
or MIg as I am sure you cant either which is why you are reading this.

My application is general home use, with a goal of sculpture and
incorporating metal works into my woodworking.

I bought both a millermatic 135 (MIG) and a syncrowave 180 SD (TIG) at
the same time knowing that one would end up on Ebay. The way I look at
it as I got to try them both and will only take a slight hit as when I
sell as it will be in brand new condition........ anyway.

I bought the MIG first as I heard it was easy, and it is, but it is
also limited. different metals take different gasses and ifferent
feeder set-ups and different wire. If you need to adjust the wire
speed you need to stop welding and turn a knob..... All in all a good
process

NOW THE TIG..... :-)
I am not sure if all these people have been sniffing too much argon,
but TIG was relatively easy to learn. I am sure for thinner metals and
exotic metals it is much harder, but if you are looking at mig's you
aren't interested in reallhy thin or exotic metals anyway.

GO TIG..... I think some people wnat to make what they do seem hard to
make themselves feel better. Set the amps and go........

D wrote:
Ok here is the deal and I am sure I am going to get slammed for this.
But i dont really care. I debated and seachered and read and went
through everything you are going through. I am brand new to welding,
at least I was about two weeks ago. I could not decide to go with
TIG
or MIg as I am sure you cant either which is why you are reading
this.

My application is general home use, with a goal of sculpture and
incorporating metal works into my woodworking.

I bought both a millermatic 135 (MIG) and a syncrowave 180 SD (TIG)
at
the same time knowing that one would end up on Ebay. The way I look
at
it as I got to try them both and will only take a slight hit as when
I
sell as it will be in brand new condition........ anyway.

I bought the MIG first as I heard it was easy, and it is, but it is
also limited. different metals take different gasses and ifferent
feeder set-ups and different wire. If you need to adjust the wire
speed you need to stop welding and turn a knob..... All in all a
good
process

NOW THE TIG..... :-)
I am not sure if all these people have been sniffing too much argon,
but TIG was relatively easy to learn. I am sure for thinner metals
and
exotic metals it is much harder, but if you are looking at mig's you
aren't interested in reallhy thin or exotic metals anyway.

GO TIG..... I think some people wnat to make what they do seem hard
to
make themselves feel better. Set the amps and go........

MIG is only good for light work, tends to make a brittle weld that
cracks, and as you mentioned, the alloys and gas mixtures are a PITA.

TIG is nothing more or less than an electric torch, with an inert
atmosphere. You can weld almost any metal with it up to the heat
capacity of the torch. Anyone who learned to weld with OA will find the
TIG very easy to use. With my tremor, I find that practicing on tin
cans is a big help; makes everything else relatively easy.
Bugs

"D" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ok here is the deal and I am sure I am going to get slammed for this.
But i dont really care. I debated and seachered and read and went
through everything you are going through. I am brand new to welding,
at least I was about two weeks ago. I could not decide to go with TIG
or MIg as I am sure you cant either which is why you are reading this.

My application is general home use, with a goal of sculpture and
incorporating metal works into my woodworking.

I bought both a millermatic 135 (MIG) and a syncrowave 180 SD (TIG) at
the same time knowing that one would end up on Ebay. The way I look at
it as I got to try them both and will only take a slight hit as when I
sell as it will be in brand new condition........ anyway.

I bought the MIG first as I heard it was easy, and it is, but it is
also limited. different metals take different gasses and ifferent
feeder set-ups and different wire. If you need to adjust the wire
speed you need to stop welding and turn a knob..... All in all a good
process

NOW THE TIG..... :-)
I am not sure if all these people have been sniffing too much argon,
but TIG was relatively easy to learn. I am sure for thinner metals and
exotic metals it is much harder, but if you are looking at mig's you
aren't interested in reallhy thin or exotic metals anyway.

GO TIG..... I think some people wnat to make what they do seem hard to
make themselves feel better. Set the amps and go........


I think you have far too many synapses firing. I hope others are inspired
to explore processes without trepidation.

On 24 May 2005 05:51:21 -0700, "Bugs" wrote:

MIG is only good for light work, tends to make a brittle weld that
cracks, and as you mentioned, the alloys and gas mixtures are a PITA.

MIG works fine for mild steel fabrication. The little 110 v boxes
are good up to 1/8" steel mit gaz, 3/16 with fluxcore; a Miller
210 can make good sound one-pass MIG welds in steel from 22 gage
(.032") to 3/8". These welds are not brittle and don't crack.

Aluminum, stainless and carbon steels might be more problematic.

TIG is nothing more or less than an electric torch, with an inert
atmosphere. You can weld almost any metal with it up to the heat
capacity of the torch. Anyone who learned to weld with OA will find the
TIG very easy to use.

True. Another advantage to TIG is that, because it is slow and
footpedal-controlled, one has considerably more control "en route".
MIG must be set right before the weld is started. Also, with the
right joint design, autogenous welds (no filler) are possible with TIG
(and O/A).

Even TIG welds in aluminum sheetmetal can be brittle. O/A welds are
more ductile, better if the metal is to be further worked -- formed,
bent, planished, etc.

Each process has its uses. For just sticking stuff together out of
mild steel, MIG wins hands down. It would take forever to build a
trailer with TIG and distortion control would be more of a problem.

TIG and O/A do seem to be the best choices for the OP. If he doesn't
have O/A yet, he will eventually. Brass and wood play well together.
Silverbrazing would be the preferred joining process there.

I'm expecting the Brown Truck to deliver my Meco Midget torch today.
Reviews later. I'm replacing my Marquette Lite-Jet that was used and
cheap when I got it over 30 years ago.

On 24 May 2005 05:51:21 -0700, "Bugs" wrote:


MIG is only good for light work, tends to make a brittle weld that
cracks, and as you mentioned, the alloys and gas mixtures are a PITA.

I hope someone tells the ship builders and pipeliners about this.

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

I also learned to depreciate
my own abilities around peers. A habit that
has served me well over the years.

People suck.

all welding requires
1)excellent ground
2)proper feed rate
3)correct voltage.

You can weld by sound. Once you
get the welder set correct, it sounds
like frying eggs. Steady buzz, no
crackle.

I picked up oxy-acetylene, stick,
MIG in about a week.

The hardest was gas. difficult to
control heat with a flame.

Stick welding is easy, but hard to
make it look nice at first.

MIG is the easiest, but you have
to set the machine right. Pull the
trigger and move handle in tiny
circles. You get the hang of tuning
the machine to the sound and the
pressure put on the handle (by wire
pressing off of work-piece) Wire
speed is too high if the handle
"bucks", too low if you have to move
handle across weld area too slowly.
Adjust voltage LOW for thin metals,
HIGH for thicker, weld 1/4 inch, and
look at it. You can tell how deeply
you penetrated the metal. Too
shallow, turn up the voltage. Too deep
and you are probably burning holes,
turn down the voltage.

Rich

buy them both, you won't be wrong...

xman


"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
. ..

"D" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ok here is the deal and I am sure I am going to get slammed for this.
But i dont really care. I debated and seachered and read and went
through everything you are going through. I am brand new to welding,
at least I was about two weeks ago. I could not decide to go with TIG
or MIg as I am sure you cant either which is why you are reading this.

My application is general home use, with a goal of sculpture and
incorporating metal works into my woodworking.

I bought both a millermatic 135 (MIG) and a syncrowave 180 SD (TIG) at
the same time knowing that one would end up on Ebay. The way I look at
it as I got to try them both and will only take a slight hit as when I
sell as it will be in brand new condition........ anyway.

I bought the MIG first as I heard it was easy, and it is, but it is
also limited. different metals take different gasses and ifferent
feeder set-ups and different wire. If you need to adjust the wire
speed you need to stop welding and turn a knob..... All in all a good
process

NOW THE TIG..... :-)
I am not sure if all these people have been sniffing too much argon,
but TIG was relatively easy to learn. I am sure for thinner metals and
exotic metals it is much harder, but if you are looking at mig's you
aren't interested in reallhy thin or exotic metals anyway.

GO TIG..... I think some people wnat to make what they do seem hard to
make themselves feel better. Set the amps and go........


I think you have far too many synapses firing. I hope others are inspired
to explore processes without trepidation.

wrote:

MIG is the easiest, but you have to set the machine right.

MIG _seems_ easy, but it aint.
I won't forget when we had to weld 100.000 (or more) T's (5mm thick) for
fixing facades with MAG. One of our old experienced workers watched us
and asked, whether he can have a try (he only knew stick or O/A). I
watched him welding one fillet (about 100mm long) and when he was
finished, he was realy proud. "Looks good! Easy!" he said.
I took the piece and threw it on the floor. It fell apart.

The easy part on MIG/MAG is making nice welds, the had part making welds
that keep what they promise.
Take a hobbyist that claims that he can MIG/MAG, give him something to
weld and bend it in the vice.

Nick

--
WDR Fernsehen:
"Ein Computer arbeitet so lange Befehle ab,
bis keine mehr vorhanden sind."
Muss ich die dann irgendwie nachfüllen?

For All....... I forgot a very important summation to my post, and my
main point of the post.

Let the application be your guide not the difficulty of learning. In
my opinion they both seem like golf, a day to learn and a lifetime to
master

D wrote:

they both seem like golf, a day to learn and a lifetime to master


Great!

Nick

--
WDR Fernsehen:
"Ein Computer arbeitet so lange Befehle ab,
bis keine mehr vorhanden sind."
Muss ich die dann irgendwie nachfüllen?

D wrote:
NOW THE TIG..... :-)
I am not sure if all these people have been sniffing too much argon,
but TIG was relatively easy to learn. I am sure for thinner metals and

I didn't see it mentioned but if you have done any O/A welding, brazing
or even torch soldering, learning TIG comes _much_ easier than migrating
from stick or MIG.

exotic metals it is much harder, but if you are looking at mig's you

Not really. I have TIG'd everything from pewter to Stellite.

GO TIG..... I think some people wnat to make what they do seem hard to
make themselves feel better. Set the amps and go........

My first TIG weld that was for a usin' piece was done the same day that
I bought my TIG and it was Aluminum. Stainless is the easiest followed
by mild steel then Aluminum. I wrote the following in '99 but it
doesn't need changing:
"
What methods of welding, other than good old-fashioned forge welding,
does everyone like to use?
...
public school system offers extension courses in arc, oxyacetylene,
and mig welding. Which, if any, of these methods is the easiest to
use with the widest application.

Hang on while I climb into my asbestos suit. OK, here goes. All kinds
of people are going to tell you MIG. True, it is easy to learn to make
pretty welds with it. Good welds are another question. Versatility?
Forget it. Quickly change from one metal to another? No. In a
production environment, you make the jigs once then weld and weld and
weld - most of the time goes into welding. For a hobbyist, or anyone
else doing one-ofs or repairs, most of the time usually goes into
setting up what is to be welded not in the actual welding. This makes
the increased speed of MIG quite unimportant.

The most versatile process is still oxyacetylene. You can do almost
anything with it but some things (e.g. Al welding) are very dificult.
What's more, learning it will give you skills you can use in all
processes. It is probably more expensive to get into than arc or low
end MIG but you will use that torch for the rest of your life.

Now if you *really* want a versatile, clean process that will tackle
just about anything, make that a TIG. It sounds like you're primarily a
hobbyist and want to be able to tackle anything. TIG is *far* more
versitile than MIG and once you learn O/A, the technique is really easy
to pick up.

Now for those who are about to go incandescent on the MIG/TIG issue:
Can you weld a broken piece of pewter (without discoloring the other
side) with your MIG? How about building up a worn throttle shaft with
aluminum bronze? Or put a stellite point on a piece of re-bar to make a
*super* center punch for hot work (blacksmithing)? How about building
up a badly pitted strarter solenoid contact with copper or a heavy
current contact with silver? Can you re-build a damaged aluminum
outboard prop? How about welding your neighbour's broken cast iron
bench vise? These are all things I have done with my TIG in addition to
the routine stuff like welding an H-13 air hardening tool steel fore
punch to a mild steel handle, a concrete chipping chisel made from old
car leaf spring welded to a piece of steel pipe, steel from banding to
1/2" plate, aluminum from .026 wall irrigation pipe to 1/4" plate.
Probably lots more that I don't recall at the moment.

Oh here's one. I have a double ended dog lead clip. The dog managed to
snag this on a concrete block and broke off the little finger button for
opening the clip leaving a jagged, sharp stub in the slot. This is on
the slider sitting in a 1/8" wide groove in the body. There is no
non-destructive way to take this apart for repair. Why repair a $2.50
item? Because it would take me 20 minutes each way to drive to town
plus some time in the store. Besides I wanted to see if I could do it.
:-) Set TIG to low current. Grab a 1/32" 347 SS rod (bought surplus).
Build up a little button on the broken stub. Fixed in less than five
minutes.

Some more I just remembered: Stainless buckle made from 1/8" 308
welding rod. Repair cracked stainless steel cooking pot. Copper
bracelet from #10 wire. Tack ends of three pieces, braid, flatten, cut
off tacks, bend into oval and weld individual strands. Few people can
find the welds. Car-top rack from old bedframe. Any weld process would
do but Argon is cheaper than Acetylene. Various aluminum and stainless
fittings for 18' catamaran. 1/16" Aluminum toilet tank (special
application). Repair broken ratchet spring in oldie-but-goodie come
along. Many "unrepairable" expensive auto (and other) parts that
required spot welds and or rivetiing to be ground off. Re-assembly done
with a few TIG tacks. ALL our folding aluminum garden chairs came from
the dump. Broken tubes and worn holes repaired and corners gusseted.
Much better than new!

MIG is fast. If I was going to build a 40' aluminum catamaran, I would
buy a mig for the project and practice, practice, practice 'til I got
past the weak but good looking weld stage.

In the meantime, I have a Thermal Dynamics TIG that does both stick and
TIG and the O/A outfit that I bought 25 years ago. Along the way, a
Little Torch was added.
"
Ted

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On 24 May 2005 05:51:21 -0700, "Bugs" wrote:


MIG is only good for light work, tends to make a brittle weld that
cracks, and as you mentioned, the alloys and gas mixtures are a PITA.

I hope someone tells the ship builders and pipeliners about this.

Not to mention all the race car builders, off-road vehicle modifiers,
automobile body shops, etc. Plenty of people are able to make good, solid,
strong non-brittle welds with MIG.

Frankly, I find this debate of MIG versus TIG tiresome. Like most tools, MIG
might excel in some applications, while TIG excels in others. It's stupid to
argue which tool is "better." Use the right/best tool for you application if
you can. If not, then use the next best that you have available. Etc.

Here is a good discussion of TIG versus MIG:

http://www.millerwelds.com/education...articles12.php

I have a MIG welder and it has served me well. Back when I bought it, TIG
was not a (feasible) option for the home shop. Eventually, I would like to
get a TIG welder as well, but that doesn't mean I'd sell my MIG welder.

- Michael

I will sell my mig. (Millermatic 135 & cart, two rolls of .30 wire one
large one thaT CAME WITH UNIT) with 80 cft tank, full. all boxes and
literature. $775 i live in ct and will deliver within 45 miles of
hartford

DeepDiver wrote:
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On 24 May 2005 05:51:21 -0700, "Bugs" wrote:


MIG is only good for light work, tends to make a brittle weld that
cracks, and as you mentioned, the alloys and gas mixtures are a PITA.

I hope someone tells the ship builders and pipeliners about this.

Not to mention all the race car builders, off-road vehicle modifiers,
automobile body shops, etc. Plenty of people are able to make good, solid,
strong non-brittle welds with MIG.

Frankly, I find this debate of MIG versus TIG tiresome. Like most tools, MIG
might excel in some applications, while TIG excels in others. It's stupid to
argue which tool is "better." Use the right/best tool for you application if
you can. If not, then use the next best that you have available. Etc.

Here is a good discussion of TIG versus MIG:

http://www.millerwelds.com/education...articles12.php

I have a MIG welder and it has served me well. Back when I bought it, TIG
was not a (feasible) option for the home shop. Eventually, I would like to
get a TIG welder as well, but that doesn't mean I'd sell my MIG welder.

- Michael