On 20 Apr 2005 16:36:56 GMT, Ignoramus14555
wrote:

The person who correctly identifies this head will get 50 feet of 14
gauge 3 wire ST M/E cable. Great for wiring various tools. Has thick,
black, protective plastic armor. Very flexible. Shippping is also
free.

All you have to do is correctly answer, what is this head for.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/milsurp/unknown-head/

i
Well it's one of several heads off some big industrial engine. I
don't recognize it though so I'm not sure of the make. It might be
Caterpillar but I doubt it.

Notice that the bolt holes for holding the head down are shared by
the head next to it. On big engines the heads often come in more than
one piece.

It's definitely not a air compressor head. The hole in the middle is
for the injector so it's a diesel engine head.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

"Ignoramus14555" wrote in message
...

All you have to do is correctly answer, what is this head for.


Thank you. I am wondering, though, how come the four valves are so
close. I cannot imagine cylinder placement that would fit these
valves. For a diesel, we need 2 valves per cylinder, intake and
exhaust. If so, how could the cylinders be placed?

It's likely that two valves are intake and two are exhaust serving a single
cylinder, just like many modern gas engines.

I have a question though. If you don't know what this is from, how are you
going to determine who gets it right?

Peter

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:03:46 GMT, Peter Grey wrote:

"Ignoramus14555" wrote in message
...

All you have to do is correctly answer, what is this head for.


Thank you. I am wondering, though, how come the four valves are so
close. I cannot imagine cylinder placement that would fit these
valves. For a diesel, we need 2 valves per cylinder, intake and
exhaust. If so, how could the cylinders be placed?

It's likely that two valves are intake and two are exhaust serving a single
cylinder, just like many modern gas engines.

Right. It looks like a (well made) diesel head; I agree about the
injector port. I suspect two are intake and two exhaust.

I have a question though. If you don't know what this is from, how are you
going to determine who gets it right?

I suspect "whoever bluffs best" may be the criteria. The casting
marks have to mean something to someone, though.

On 20 Apr 2005 16:36:56 GMT, Ignoramus14555
wrote:

The person who correctly identifies this head will get 50 feet of 14
gauge 3 wire ST M/E cable. Great for wiring various tools. Has thick,
black, protective plastic armor. Very flexible. Shippping is also
free.

All you have to do is correctly answer, what is this head for.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/milsurp/unknown-head/

Don't ask me what brand it is, but this looks like a segmented head
(one cylinder) for a Big Diesel. Medium sized Earthmover or Class 8
Truck sized. They build the big ones like this so you can take apart
the one cylinder that has problems for repair without taking the whole
engine apart.

I'll be interested when someone pops up and says "Oh, that's a CAT
3608 head!" or something like that...

The head bolts go through the half-round notches on the sides, and
clamp two adjacent heads with one bolt and a big washer. Four holes
for pushrods up through the opposite sides. Hole for the fuel
injector in the middle.

Most likely the big siamese ports are the exhaust, the one that
loops around at an angle are the intake - if you have a turbocharger
or supercharger in the intake you can take a bit more circuitous
route. And the port on the top with the three bolts and O-ring groove
is probably for a coolant manifold back to the radiator from each
head.

And each head has it's own valve cover for the rocker arms.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Ignoramus14555 wrote:
The person who correctly identifies this head will get 50 feet of 14
gauge 3 wire ST M/E cable. Great for wiring various tools. Has thick,
black, protective plastic armor. Very flexible. Shippping is also
free.

All you have to do is correctly answer, what is this head for.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/milsurp/unknown-head/

I won't bet the farm on this, but my money is on a large marine or
stationary diesel engine like this....
http://www.man-mec.com/Emergency%20Power.htm (see the top-down view)
http://www.waukeshaengine.com/intern...gines/atgl.cfm

Just for giggles, I checked out the spec's on Waukesha's largest engine
http://www.waukeshaengine.com/intern...heets/7088.pdf
Igor, your cylinder head is not from this engine, the heads on this
beast weigh 450# each. The whole engine tips the scales at 63,800# dry
with no flywheel....but it does produce 4500hp.....

On 20 Apr 2005 17:44:24 GMT, Ignoramus14555
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:27:37 -0500, Wayne Cook wrote:
On 20 Apr 2005 16:36:56 GMT, Ignoramus14555
wrote:

The person who correctly identifies this head will get 50 feet of 14
gauge 3 wire ST M/E cable. Great for wiring various tools. Has thick,
black, protective plastic armor. Very flexible. Shippping is also
free.

All you have to do is correctly answer, what is this head for.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/milsurp/unknown-head/

i
Well it's one of several heads off some big industrial engine. I
don't recognize it though so I'm not sure of the make. It might be
Caterpillar but I doubt it.

Notice that the bolt holes for holding the head down are shared by
the head next to it. On big engines the heads often come in more than
one piece.


It's definitely not a air compressor head. The hole in the middle is
for the injector so it's a diesel engine head.

Thank you. I am wondering, though, how come the four valves are so
close. I cannot imagine cylinder placement that would fit these
valves. For a diesel, we need 2 valves per cylinder, intake and
exhaust. If so, how could the cylinders be placed?

Also, I will check tonight, but I think that all valves vent to the
same air path.

If they vent to the same air path then what you've got is a Detroit
Diesel head. I don't remember Detroit building a multi piece head but
they may of on the larger engines.

The way a Detroit works is it's got a Roots blower on the intake and
there's air intake ports in the sides of the cylinder sleeves. Thus
when the piston is all the way down the blower pushes the exhaust out
the valves in the head and makes it ready for another cycle.

In other words Detroit are 2 stroke diesel engines compared the most
others being 4 stroke.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

Ignoramus14555 writes:

I am wondering, though, how come the four valves are so
close. I cannot imagine cylinder placement that would fit these
valves. For a diesel, we need 2 valves per cylinder, intake and
exhaust. If so, how could the cylinders be placed?

I think some 2-stroke diesels had four exhaust valves per
cylinder (as used in EMD locomotives, for example).
Intake was through ports at the bottom of the cylinder, blown by
a supercharger.

A four-stroke diesel would have two intake and two exhaust valves
per cylinder. I can't tell from the pictures, but you should be
able to see where the ports go.

"Ignoramus14555" wrote in message
...
The person who correctly identifies this head will get 50 feet of 14
gauge 3 wire ST M/E cable. Great for wiring various tools. Has thick,
black, protective plastic armor. Very flexible. Shippping is also
free.

All you have to do is correctly answer, what is this head for.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/milsurp/unknown-head/

i

Head for a single cylinder 53 or 71 cuin Detroit diesel.
Greg

Ignoramus14555 wrote:
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:34:07 GMT, Bruce L Bergman wrote:

On 20 Apr 2005 16:36:56 GMT, Ignoramus14555
wrote:


The person who correctly identifies this head will get 50 feet of 14
gauge 3 wire ST M/E cable. Great for wiring various tools. Has thick,
black, protective plastic armor. Very flexible. Shippping is also
free.

All you have to do is correctly answer, what is this head for.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/milsurp/unknown-head/

Don't ask me what brand it is, but this looks like a segmented head
(one cylinder) for a Big Diesel. Medium sized Earthmover or Class 8
Truck sized. They build the big ones like this so you can take apart
the one cylinder that has problems for repair without taking the whole
engine apart.

I'll be interested when someone pops up and says "Oh, that's a CAT
3608 head!" or something like that...

The head bolts go through the half-round notches on the sides, and
clamp two adjacent heads with one bolt and a big washer. Four holes
for pushrods up through the opposite sides. Hole for the fuel
injector in the middle.

Most likely the big siamese ports are the exhaust, the one that
loops around at an angle are the intake - if you have a turbocharger
or supercharger in the intake you can take a bit more circuitous
route. And the port on the top with the three bolts and O-ring groove
is probably for a coolant manifold back to the radiator from each
head.

And each head has it's own valve cover for the rocker arms.


Thanks, that's very insightful. I sent an email to a gentleman who
rebuilds diesels for a living -- working for very large customers --
and he said that it might be Cummins, although he would not know.

My first thought was "that's out of a Cummins engine from a yard-
switcher locomotive" I don't have any way to verify it though.

I watched some other guys tear down the Cummins engine years
ago when I belonged to a railroad club.

"Ignoramus14555" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:59:55 -0500, Greg O wrote:

"Ignoramus14555" wrote in message
...
The person who correctly identifies this head will get 50 feet of 14
gauge 3 wire ST M/E cable. Great for wiring various tools. Has thick,
black, protective plastic armor. Very flexible. Shippping is also
free.

All you have to do is correctly answer, what is this head for.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/milsurp/unknown-head/

i

Head for a single cylinder 53 or 71 cuin Detroit diesel.

Greg, I will call DD tomorrow and try to make sure that it is the
case. If so, which is quite possible -- this item is military surplus
and the military uses both 53 and 71 engines -- you are the lucky
winner of 50 feet of 14 gauge cable. Shipping is on me also.

i

Keep your cable!
Just let us know what you find out.
Greg

Ignoramus14555 wrote:

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:59:55 -0500, Greg O wrote:

"Ignoramus14555" wrote in message
...
The person who correctly identifies this head will get 50 feet of 14
gauge 3 wire ST M/E cable. Great for wiring various tools. Has thick,
black, protective plastic armor. Very flexible. Shippping is also
free.

All you have to do is correctly answer, what is this head for.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/milsurp/unknown-head/

i

Head for a single cylinder 53 or 71 cuin Detroit diesel.

Greg, I will call DD tomorrow and try to make sure that it is the
case. If so, which is quite possible -- this item is military surplus
and the military uses both 53 and 71 engines -- you are the lucky
winner of 50 feet of 14 gauge cable. Shipping is on me also.

i

No cigar, 53 & 71 series only had exhaust valves..

Tom

Ignoramus14555 wrote:
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:27:37 -0500, Wayne Cook wrote:

On 20 Apr 2005 16:36:56 GMT, Ignoramus14555
wrote:


The person who correctly identifies this head will get 50 feet of 14
gauge 3 wire ST M/E cable. Great for wiring various tools. Has thick,
black, protective plastic armor. Very flexible. Shippping is also
free.

All you have to do is correctly answer, what is this head for.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/milsurp/unknown-head/

i

Well it's one of several heads off some big industrial engine. I
don't recognize it though so I'm not sure of the make. It might be
Caterpillar but I doubt it.

Notice that the bolt holes for holding the head down are shared by
the head next to it. On big engines the heads often come in more than
one piece.



It's definitely not a air compressor head. The hole in the middle is
for the injector so it's a diesel engine head.


Thank you. I am wondering, though, how come the four valves are so
close. I cannot imagine cylinder placement that would fit these
valves. For a diesel, we need 2 valves per cylinder, intake and
exhaust. If so, how could the cylinders be placed?

Also, I will check tonight, but I think that all valves vent to the
same air path.
No, I can pretty much see the two ports, on opposite sides of the head.
4 valves/cyl might be a clue this is a Roots-blower Diesel, two-stroke,
of the Detroit Diesel design. Possibly from a 16V154 size engine, used
in locomotives and power generators.

Jon

Wayne Cook wrote:

The way a Detroit works is it's got a Roots blower on the intake and
there's air intake ports in the sides of the cylinder sleeves. Thus
when the piston is all the way down the blower pushes the exhaust out
the valves in the head and makes it ready for another cycle.

In other words Detroit are 2 stroke diesel engines compared the most
others being 4 stroke.
All the Detroit Diesels I know of used valves, only, no ports. The huge
Ferry-Morse Diesels used ported cylinders. Detroit Diesel is not the
only outfit making two strokes, and now not all their engines are two
stroke, either. The legendary 6-71, 8V92 and others of that series
all used 4 valves/cylinder, pushrod-driven rocker arms, and a Roots
blower for ventilation.

I've never figured out how the rings could survive passing over intake
and exhaust ports on a Diesel without requiring a lot of maintenance.
It just seems like they'd pick up a wear pattern that would compromise
the sealing.

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:

Wayne Cook wrote:

The way a Detroit works is it's got a Roots blower on the intake and
there's air intake ports in the sides of the cylinder sleeves. Thus
when the piston is all the way down the blower pushes the exhaust out
the valves in the head and makes it ready for another cycle.

In other words Detroit are 2 stroke diesel engines compared the most
others being 4 stroke.
All the Detroit Diesels I know of used valves, only, no ports. The huge
Ferry-Morse Diesels used ported cylinders. Detroit Diesel is not the
only outfit making two strokes, and now not all their engines are two
stroke, either. The legendary 6-71, 8V92 and others of that series
all used 4 valves/cylinder, pushrod-driven rocker arms, and a Roots
blower for ventilation.

I've never figured out how the rings could survive passing over intake
and exhaust ports on a Diesel without requiring a lot of maintenance.
It just seems like they'd pick up a wear pattern that would compromise
the sealing.

Jon

Jon, I think you need to brush up on your Detroit knowledge.
All DD 2 strokes used cylinder porting. As for 4/valves/cylinder,
the 71 series was in production for nearly 20 years before that
was introduced. Then there was the 51 series which used no valves
at all.

Tom

"Tom" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus14555 wrote:

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:59:55 -0500, Greg O wrote:

"Ignoramus14555" wrote in message
...
The person who correctly identifies this head will get 50 feet of 14
gauge 3 wire ST M/E cable. Great for wiring various tools. Has thick,
black, protective plastic armor. Very flexible. Shippping is also
free.

All you have to do is correctly answer, what is this head for.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/milsurp/unknown-head/

i

Head for a single cylinder 53 or 71 cuin Detroit diesel.

Greg, I will call DD tomorrow and try to make sure that it is the
case. If so, which is quite possible -- this item is military surplus
and the military uses both 53 and 71 engines -- you are the lucky
winner of 50 feet of 14 gauge cable. Shipping is on me also.

i

No cigar, 53 & 71 series only had exhaust valves..

Tom

Yup! Four of them.
He did state that the valves all opened to the same air passage, correct?
Greg

"Ignoramus14555" wrote in message
...

I just checked, two cylinders are connected to one vent and two are
connected to another.

i
Not a Detroit then.
Greg

I suspect its a single head for a 2 stroke an industrial diesel engine.
They usually have one head per cylinder and poppet valves only on the
exhaust. The inlet valves are ports on the cylinder. It may be off a GM
engine like the old 6-71 tank engine but I don't think they had 4 valves in
the head. Its been a long time since I saw one.


Tom

Greetings and Salutations....

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:25:32 +1000, "Tom Miller"
wrote:

I suspect its a single head for a 2 stroke an industrial diesel engine.
They usually have one head per cylinder and poppet valves only on the
exhaust. The inlet valves are ports on the cylinder. It may be off a GM
engine like the old 6-71 tank engine but I don't think they had 4 valves in
the head. Its been a long time since I saw one.


Tom


Well I sent the link along to a friend whose business
is remanufacturing diesel engine heads, etc. It is his considered
opinion that it is off a Volvo engine...
The copper sleave in the center of the valves would be for the
fuel injector, and, was one thing that made me suspect it is not
a compressor head. Copper is REALLY bad for use in compressors,
as it work hardens and cracks really quickly.
Regards
Dave Mundt