does anyone know if this exists? I have horrendous new internal drain
problem and I need to draw it out for assistance. After all a picture is
worth a thousand words.

TIA.

so get some isometric graph paper and start drawing. heck do it without
isometric graph paper.

or if you must, most generic cad programs have an isometric mode.

randy

"oreo123" wrote in message
...
does anyone know if this exists? I have horrendous new internal drain
problem and I need to draw it out for assistance. After all a picture is
worth a thousand words.

TIA.

xrongor wrote:

so get some isometric graph paper and start drawing. heck do it without
isometric graph paper.

or if you must, most generic cad programs have an isometric mode.

But what is so complicated OP needs a 3D view for is the ????

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
xrongor wrote:

so get some isometric graph paper and start drawing. heck do it without
isometric graph paper.

or if you must, most generic cad programs have an isometric mode.

But what is so complicated OP needs a 3D view for is the ????

well, isometric is a 2d representation of a 3d system. its perfect for
piping because piping is a 3d system and pipes will travel in all 3 planes.
you can do it orthographically (top, front, side) but you can see it all at
once with an isometric view and only need one drawing.

randy

xrongor wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
xrongor wrote:

so get some isometric graph paper and start drawing. heck do it without
isometric graph paper.

or if you must, most generic cad programs have an isometric mode.

But what is so complicated OP needs a 3D view for is the ????

well, isometric is a 2d representation of a 3d system. its perfect for
piping because piping is a 3d system and pipes will travel in all 3 planes.
you can do it orthographically (top, front, side) but you can see it all at
once with an isometric view and only need one drawing.


Well, I understand that, I was wondering what the op's problem was that
was complicated enough plumbing problem to actually need the
view...plant piping, yes, but this is (supposedly) home repair.

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
xrongor wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
xrongor wrote:

so get some isometric graph paper and start drawing. heck do it
without
isometric graph paper.

or if you must, most generic cad programs have an isometric mode.

But what is so complicated OP needs a 3D view for is the ????

well, isometric is a 2d representation of a 3d system. its perfect for
piping because piping is a 3d system and pipes will travel in all 3
planes.
you can do it orthographically (top, front, side) but you can see it all
at
once with an isometric view and only need one drawing.


Well, I understand that, I was wondering what the op's problem was that
was complicated enough plumbing problem to actually need the
view...plant piping, yes, but this is (supposedly) home repair.

imho, its still much easier if you can visualize it. pretty hard to hit a
target you cant see...

or to put it another way, if you cant figure out how to draw it, i dont
think you have much chance of building it right.

randy

xrongor wrote:

....regarding drawing plumbing layout...

...if you cant figure out how to draw it, i dont
think you have much chance of building it right.

Most single-dwelling plumbing is pretty much just point-to-point from
supply to fixtures, fixtures to drain...I am still curious as to what
the OP was up to...

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
xrongor wrote:

...regarding drawing plumbing layout...

...if you cant figure out how to draw it, i dont
think you have much chance of building it right.

Most single-dwelling plumbing is pretty much just point-to-point from
supply to fixtures, fixtures to drain...

in which case it would be easy to draw...

I am still curious as to what
the OP was up to...

my guess was under the kitchen sink, or the drain system for a bathroom away
from the main vent stack. while certainly not rocket science, both
locations require a little planning.

in any case, if you cant draw it, you probably cant build it. drawing it is
easier.

randy

OP here... This has been a project that has been going on for 7 plus years.
I do not remember certain things during roughing... The delays were due to
major sicknesses :-( All work was performed by licensed people and
inspected. Walls and floors are closed now and we have some sort of drainage
issue. I guess its either a venting issue or something clogged in old cast
iron pipe when it was snapped. Its going to be lots easier with picture of
what was done. It is possible that some bird nested in venting for just the
kitchen sink vent to the main vent - as there was a new roof installed there
too.

Its a 3 family house with kitchs and baths on their own stack. This is top
floor unit where a non bearing wall was moved to reroute a vent stack. Issue
is with kitchen sink where it runs fine for first few gallons and then
stops. Get some bubbles and a very slow flow. Snaked it out to 25 feet 3
different times and no blockages. The 2 floors beneath have no issues. So I
wanted to draw it out and run it by a few people to get their wild guesses
before we start ripping things open.

I will try to draw it and place it on line. Can one do an attachment in this
forum?

TIA.

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
xrongor wrote:

...regarding drawing plumbing layout...

...if you cant figure out how to draw it, i dont
think you have much chance of building it right.

Most single-dwelling plumbing is pretty much just point-to-point from
supply to fixtures, fixtures to drain...I am still curious as to what
the OP was up to...

oreo123 wrote:

....
Its a 3 family house with kitchs and baths on their own stack. This is top
floor unit where a non bearing wall was moved to reroute a vent stack. Issue
is with kitchen sink where it runs fine for first few gallons and then
stops. Get some bubbles and a very slow flow. Snaked it out to 25 feet 3
different times and no blockages. The 2 floors beneath have no issues. So I
wanted to draw it out and run it by a few people to get their wild guesses
before we start ripping things open.

If it's just this one sink in all likelihood there's a long horizontal
run or a sharp elbow somewhere and it has collected detritus from the
sink. Is possible that a vent is clogged, but much less likely imo.
I'm betting there's a clog past where your snake has reached.

O.K. I just drew, scanned, and posted 2 drawings. The first one is he
http://home.comcast.net/~oreo123/lftvent.jpg This is the original stacking.

The second one is he http://home.comcast.net/~oreo123/lftvent2.jpg

Basically the top floor stack was cut off and the venting was run around
under a tub, up a wall and over the bathroom.

If I run around 2 gallons of water it drains great. After that a few glubs
of air and the water stops running. The water does go down over next couple
of minutes.

From the new kitchen sink its out of pig, into 1.5 inch to the wall. Then
there is one elbow and a 5 foot run to the wall drain. I did not show the 5
foot run across the wall to the drain going down (lack of drawing ability).

Either I have a venting problem, or the slope of the pipe from where it was
snapped - to the outside wall does not have the quarter inch slope per foot.

I have punched the drain 3 times and there is no obstruction. Snake is 25
footer drain gun. All drains have sweeps so the snake is going into the main
stack beyond where it was snapped.

Anyone have any thoughts? NOT looking forward to opening up the floor or
wall if I can avoid it. UGH.

TIA.


"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
oreo123 wrote:

...
Its a 3 family house with kitchs and baths on their own stack. This is
top
floor unit where a non bearing wall was moved to reroute a vent stack.
Issue
is with kitchen sink where it runs fine for first few gallons and then
stops. Get some bubbles and a very slow flow. Snaked it out to 25 feet 3
different times and no blockages. The 2 floors beneath have no issues. So
I
wanted to draw it out and run it by a few people to get their wild
guesses
before we start ripping things open.

If it's just this one sink in all likelihood there's a long horizontal
run or a sharp elbow somewhere and it has collected detritus from the
sink. Is possible that a vent is clogged, but much less likely imo.
I'm betting there's a clog past where your snake has reached.

oreo123 wrote:

....

If I run around 2 gallons of water it drains great. After that a few glubs
of air and the water stops running. The water does go down over next couple
of minutes.
....

Is this new symptom or has it always (since the replumbing, that is)
behaved this way? W/ a sink, if it once was fine and now isn't, I'm
still leaning towards garbage built-up even given the snake...

This is brand new. All plumbing is new pvc to where the elbow was cut in
from the stack.

There has never been any garbage down this drain. Maybe a total of 8 gallons
over the past 10 days. I punch it with snake out 25 feet which gets me into
the main stack and its clean and clear with no obstruction. If I hit it with
air pressure... I think that it would just go around the vent.

What is the slope of that new pipe were say zero. I mean the pipe from where
the cast was snapped. Would that account for a couple of gallons fine and
then a blockage?

TIA.

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
oreo123 wrote:

...

If I run around 2 gallons of water it drains great. After that a few
glubs
of air and the water stops running. The water does go down over next
couple
of minutes.
...

Is this new symptom or has it always (since the replumbing, that is)
behaved this way? W/ a sink, if it once was fine and now isn't, I'm
still leaning towards garbage built-up even given the snake...

oreo123 wrote:

This is brand new. All plumbing is new pvc to where the elbow was cut in
from the stack.

Oooh, that's a bummer, then...I thought you meant it was 7 years since
finished. Not cool to have covered it all up before a test run...

....
What is the slope of that new pipe were say zero. I mean the pipe from where
the cast was snapped. Would that account for a couple of gallons fine and
then a blockage?

Possibly, but unless there's enough to plug the line being released at
once, don't really think so. What if you let a trickle run a long time
as opposed to a full flow? Does it ever quit draining under that
condition?

Where's the vent stack wrt the sink? Did you check for the obstruction
there that you were wondering about?

There has never been any garbage run ito this. Since we tried it a week ago
there has been a total of maybe 8 gallons of fresh water run into it.

My thinking is its either the slope of the pipe under the finished floor. Or
its something vent related.

I need someone who really knows venting and plumbing to make an educated
call on this. I want to go the least destruction way possible.

TIA.

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
oreo123 wrote:

...

If I run around 2 gallons of water it drains great. After that a few
glubs
of air and the water stops running. The water does go down over next
couple
of minutes.
...

Is this new symptom or has it always (since the replumbing, that is)
behaved this way? W/ a sink, if it once was fine and now isn't, I'm
still leaning towards garbage built-up even given the snake...

oreo123 wrote:

There has never been any garbage run ito this. Since we tried it a week ago
there has been a total of maybe 8 gallons of fresh water run into it.

My thinking is its either the slope of the pipe under the finished floor. Or
its something vent related.

I need someone who really knows venting and plumbing to make an educated
call on this. I want to go the least destruction way possible.

Can't tell from your sketch the venting for sure but looks like a good
possibility would be that they didn't get the slope in the 12' run from
the sink to the stack.

What's the orientation of the cross-over shown?

oreo123 wrote:
There has never been any garbage run ito this. Since we tried it a
week ago
there has been a total of maybe 8 gallons of fresh water run into it.

My thinking is its either the slope of the pipe under the finished
floor. Or
its something vent related.

I need someone who really knows venting and plumbing to make an
educated
call on this. I want to go the least destruction way possible.

TIA.

I'm not a plumber, nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, but I
can tell you how I'd approach it. I think that the couple of gallons
draining before it backs up needs to be investigated - the exact volume
will give you a better indication of where the blockage is occuring. I
did a rough calc using 2 gallons and came up with ~22' (assuming a 1.5"
line). I'm sure the line isn't bone dry due to the blockage, so it
could be further along. Maybe that 25' isn't quite enough

R

Duane Bozarth wrote:
....
Can't tell from your sketch the venting for sure but looks like a good
possibility would be that they didn't get the slope in the 12' run from
the sink to the stack.

What's the orientation of the cross-over shown?

Realize this didn't come out very clearly, sorry...

Try to clarify what I was thinking about above...

1. If the horizontal run wasn't supported well, it's possible it's got a
sag in the middle perhaps and fills up. I hadn't calculated the
length/gal as did another responder so it may be too short a run for
that to be the real problem, though...

2. As noted, the venting arrangement is unclear to me from the
sketches...is it possible the crossover is also a horizontal run and
it's filling up also and that's cutting off the vent?