I know this topic has been beaten to death - but I want to present a
fresh problem and get all of your advice to solve it.
I have a 3000 square foot one-floor house about 20 years old that I just
bought. The kitchen is on one end and the bathrooms and laundry are on
the other end. Currently there are two 50 gallon electric water heaters
- one on each end of the home. The house also has city gas - but it only
serves the pool heater and hot tub heater.
Here is the funny part - the water heater right next to the bathrooms
- does not service the bathrooms - only the clothes washer. The water
heater near the kitchen serves the kitchen and the two bathrooms sixty
feet away. Of course the pipes are in the concrete slab.
Whenever you take a shower - it takes the hot water from the kitchen
water heater forever to get to the showers wasting time - water - and
energy.
I have 4 options -
1. Replace the electric water heaters with gas ones - the city gives you
a $450 credit for each electric water heater you swap out.
2. Buy two on-demand electric water heaters and put one in a bathroom
and one in the kitchen.
3. I can run copper pipes overhead and try to get hot water from the
laundry to the bathrooms.
4. Just leave it the way it is - both water heaters work fine - but it
take about three minutes for the shower to get hot.
Harry

"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
...
I know this topic has been beaten to death - but I want to present a
fresh problem and get all of your advice to solve it.
I have a 3000 square foot one-floor house about 20 years old that I just
bought. The kitchen is on one end and the bathrooms and laundry are on
the other end. Currently there are two 50 gallon electric water heaters
- one on each end of the home. The house also has city gas - but it only
serves the pool heater and hot tub heater.
Here is the funny part - the water heater right next to the bathrooms
- does not service the bathrooms - only the clothes washer. The water
heater near the kitchen serves the kitchen and the two bathrooms sixty
feet away. Of course the pipes are in the concrete slab.
Whenever you take a shower - it takes the hot water from the kitchen
water heater forever to get to the showers wasting time - water - and
energy.
I have 4 options -
1. Replace the electric water heaters with gas ones - the city gives you
a $450 credit for each electric water heater you swap out.
2. Buy two on-demand electric water heaters and put one in a bathroom
and one in the kitchen.
3. I can run copper pipes overhead and try to get hot water from the
laundry to the bathrooms.
4. Just leave it the way it is - both water heaters work fine - but it
take about three minutes for the shower to get hot.
Harry


Or: Run copper from the end of the line back to hot water tank and install
a circulator pump.

Bill

Rinnai makes a on demand water heater that provides about 8.5 gpm. That is
pretty damn good, and it is very high gas efficiency. Our ele rate is
$0.14/kw and our NG is $1.17/ therm. You really need to look at your rates
to make a logical decision

--
Bob Pietrangelo


www.comfort-solution.biz
On Time or Your Service Call is FREE
Preventive Maintenance Specialist




"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
...
I know this topic has been beaten to death - but I want to present a
fresh problem and get all of your advice to solve it.
I have a 3000 square foot one-floor house about 20 years old that I just
bought. The kitchen is on one end and the bathrooms and laundry are on
the other end. Currently there are two 50 gallon electric water heaters
- one on each end of the home. The house also has city gas - but it only
serves the pool heater and hot tub heater.
Here is the funny part - the water heater right next to the bathrooms
- does not service the bathrooms - only the clothes washer. The water
heater near the kitchen serves the kitchen and the two bathrooms sixty
feet away. Of course the pipes are in the concrete slab.
Whenever you take a shower - it takes the hot water from the kitchen
water heater forever to get to the showers wasting time - water - and
energy.
I have 4 options -
1. Replace the electric water heaters with gas ones - the city gives you
a $450 credit for each electric water heater you swap out.
2. Buy two on-demand electric water heaters and put one in a bathroom
and one in the kitchen.
3. I can run copper pipes overhead and try to get hot water from the
laundry to the bathrooms.
4. Just leave it the way it is - both water heaters work fine - but it
take about three minutes for the shower to get hot.
Harry

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 14:58:02 -0500, Harry Everhart
wrote:

I have 4 options -
1. Replace the electric water heaters with gas ones - the city gives you
a $450 credit for each electric water heater you swap out.

How would this help? The water is going to take the exact same amount
of time to flow whether you heat it with electric gas or oil.

2. Buy two on-demand electric water heaters and put one in a bathroom
and one in the kitchen.

You would need a pretty big unit for the bathroom if you use it for
the shower. If its just for a sink a small one will work very well.
You do have to run wiring to them and the shower size units pull a
considerable amount of power requiring a larger cable.

3. I can run copper pipes overhead and try to get hot water from the
laundry to the bathrooms.

Excellent idea.

4. Just leave it the way it is - both water heaters work fine - but it
take about three minutes for the shower to get hot.
Harry

Always an option but I like #3 better.


Steve B.

"berkshire bill" wrote:
Or: Run copper from the end of the line back to hot water tank and install
a circulator pump.
Bill

Bill -
I do not understand what that would do.
Harry

The city owns both the gas and water companies. They offer you a rebate
of $450 for each electric water heater you replace with a gas one. They
charge about 10.5 cents per KWH with all the taxes and fees. They charge
about 1.3 cents per cubic foot of gas with all the fees included.

"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
...
"berkshire bill" wrote:
Or: Run copper from the end of the line back to hot water tank and
install
a circulator pump.
Bill

Bill -
I do not understand what that would do.
Harry

The box stores sell hot water circulating pumps. All connections can be made
under the sink. The pump draws from the hot and pumps it back into the cold.
Your application under the sink will depend on what you have.

The pumps can be run off of a t-stat on the hot water line or by time.

Changing over to gas creates some ventilation issues. Better check your
local code.

I was looking at a demand water heater yesterday, it took TWO 50 amp 2 pole
circuits.
Ya like I am going to install one of those.

Bob Pietrangelo wrote:

Rinnai makes a on demand water heater that provides about 8.5 gpm. That is
pretty damn good, and it is very high gas efficiency. Our ele rate is
$0.14/kw and our NG is $1.17/ therm. You really need to look at your rates
to make a logical decision




I'm about due for a new WH. My buddy just put in a new Rinnai ( about a
week ago, but he's not in the property yet.) How do you like yours??
Mounted inside or outside? Keeps up with your hot water demands??
Overall review?

I'm in a 1000 sq/' house, wife, 2 kids ( little ones.) 40 gallon gas
WH. With our varying schedules, the 10 y.o. 40 gal. keeps up with
demand but it's talking to me telling me it is about due for
replacement. Plus the space it lives in can be used to make the current
bathroom slightly roomier!

"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
...
"berkshire bill" wrote:
Or: Run copper from the end of the line back to hot water tank and
install
a circulator pump.
Bill

Bill -
I do not understand what that would do.
Harry

It keeps the hot water circulating in the pipes all the time so you don't
have to wait for the water in the pipes to run out first. While it add to
comfort, it also adds to your bills. Last option that I would consider.

"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
Currently there are two 50 gallon electric water heaters
- one on each end of the home.

Very expensive.

Here is the funny part - the water heater right next to the bathrooms
- does not service the bathrooms - only the clothes washer.

You are paying to keep that water hot all the time, but probably only do
laundry a few hours a week. Very espensive situation. An on demand unit
would be good for that.

The water
heater near the kitchen serves the kitchen and the two bathrooms sixty
feet away. Of course the pipes are in the concrete slab.
Whenever you take a shower - it takes the hot water from the kitchen
water heater forever to get to the showers wasting time - water - and
energy.

You can use the circulator pump, but that is an expensive option.


I have 4 options -
1. Replace the electric water heaters with gas ones - the city gives you
a $450 credit for each electric water heater you swap out.


That is the minimum to do.

2. Buy two on-demand electric water heaters and put one in a bathroom
and one in the kitchen.
3. I can run copper pipes overhead and try to get hot water from the
laundry to the bathrooms.

Talk to someone that knows more about on-demand. Maybe three is the way to
go.

4. Just leave it the way it is - both water heaters work fine - but it
take about three minutes for the shower to get hot.
Harry

But it is costly the way it is, plus uncomfortable. Worth fixing. .
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

Taking a quick look at the kwh-ng prices you posted your electric is
easily double the cost of Ng. So junk the electric and put in gas. A
relocated tankless Ng unit would save you allot.
I have .12kwh costs and nearly the same for gas, I relpaced a good
modern well insulated electric tank with tankless and my bills went down
75% giving a 4 yrs payback on a 600 Bosch tankless. Look into Rinnai
they are 88% efficient vs 83 for Takagi. You will need the 180000 units
and large gas supplys. Relocate them to where the water goes. Takagi
makes Bosches large unit.

Better would be abandon the in concrete Hw pipe , run new pipe and
insulate it well. The concrete is sucking the heat out of your line and
if it is copper the concrete will ruin it anyway in 40 yrs

"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
...
"berkshire bill" wrote:
Or: Run copper from the end of the line back to hot water tank and
install
a circulator pump.
Bill

Bill -
I do not understand what that would do.
Harry

You are constantly circulating the hot water and returning the warm water
back to the tank.. it's a trick used in motels and hotels to keep all the
guests happy. The pump doesn't have to move a huge amount of water to be
effective and most are quiet enough for residential use.

Bill

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Harry Everhart" wrote:

"berkshire bill" wrote:

Or: Run copper from the end of the line back to hot water tank and
install a circulator pump.

I do not understand what that would do.

It keeps the hot water circulating in the pipes all the time so you don't
have to wait for the water in the pipes to run out first. While it add to
comfort, it also adds to your bills. Last option that I would consider.

It might be good solution, if combined with a motion detector.

Nick

"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
...
The city owns both the gas and water companies. They offer you a rebate
of $450 for each electric water heater you replace with a gas one. They
charge about 10.5 cents per KWH with all the taxes and fees. They charge
about 1.3 cents per cubic foot of gas with all the fees included.

Puzzling why they would favour gas over electric? Unless they are concerned
about the investment they may have to make in additional electrical
generating and or distribution infrastructure costs.
Overall is gas heating of hot water therefore cheaper?
Take into consideration that any gas appliance requires combustion air (from
the house) and ventilation/exhaust venting etc. of the combustion products
(add Carbon monoxide detectors) and increases (slightly) direct pollution
in the neighbourhood.
Also insurance considerations?
Reason to ask is that our 'all electric' homes, using hydro generated
electricity from hundreds of miles away are reasonably efficient considering
the climate. BTW we run our whole (4 bedroom) house on one 40 gallon
electric!