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#1
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Home Improvement gone bad- chimney liner
I'm a first-timer to your Newsgroup.
I was wondering if I may get some legal advice on a home improvement project that went very bad. I live in the State of New Jersey. Home Improvement gone bad- chimney liner: The project started with being red-tagged from my local gas company because my water heater flue was back-drafting and the fumes where venting directly into my living space. I hired a local chimney contractor to install a chimney liner because my chimney was to big to draw the air properly. To make a long story kind of short.....1. the contractor forgot to turn off my heater while working and the heating system "calf" the soot and soil all through out my home. I immediately asked him to come look at the damage to my home, he refused and said it was just a bit of dust. 2. Also, the contractor forgot to seal off the area he was working in so the immediate living space was soiled due to cutting through the masonry wall to the chimney's existing flue. The damage to my home was so great that I received nose bleeds, headaches, and was sick to my stomach. I couldn't live in my home till the toxic mater was cleaned up. Consequently to correct this matter, I had set up an appointment with the chimney contractor to come and view the damages two days. He stated on the phone that he would be willing to pay my homeowner's deductible but was not willing to report the claim to his insurance company. I said this was not expectable to me. He said when he would come over we could try to work something out in a friendly fashion. He missed the appointment and never returned my follow-up call. I proceeded to have my homeowners insurance company come and clean-up my heating ducts/system, and my whole interior of my home and property...a four day clean up with five person team. I live in a three story townhouse 1,800 SF. I live and work from home and need to have the clean happen ASAP. The contractor whom caused the damage showed up at my doorstep a week after the accident. He only showed up at my doorstep unannounced because I canceled payment for his work done. (The chimney is working correctly and the gas company has since removed the red-tagged and I can use the water heater.) He claims he couldn't make the appointment due to he was in a car accident. I said I was sorry to hear that but this is business and he should of had his insurance agent contacted me directly. He wanted to get pay and didn't want to furnish me with his company's insurance information (certificate of insurance). He said since the clean up was almost complete that his insurance company would not pay for the damages. I informed him that my insurance company took picture and wrote a report as did the professional cleaning up company and would forward the information to his company. I stated it is in the hands of the insurance companies. He still refused to supply me with this information and I said I will not pay him till this matter is resolved. He was screaming at me at this point.....tons of drama that scared me. I just shut my door on him. He screamed he was going to go to the police, I said good. I then dialed 911 and the police took my statement. When the police arrived at my home they stated; it's against the law not to pay him the contractor for his work done even thought his work cause considerable damage to my home. That damage was a civil matter only. The officer state I must pay the contractor in 10 day after I receive his certified letter requesting payment or I will have to go to court for a criminal offense. Is this correct? Will I be issued a summons to go to court for a criminal offense because this contractor didn't do his work in a workman like manner; as it is stated in is his proposal/contract of work rendered? And I refuse to pay till the matter is settled? Don't I have the right to receive his insurance company information? Thank you for reading this explanation. I would appreciate any advise this forum may have to offer. Sincerely, Artist |
#2
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"Artist" wrote in message ... I'm a first-timer to your Newsgroup. man, who was that contractor? I'm having some chimney work done soon and want to make sure I don't call him. I'm near exit 4. Is he in my phone book? I bet he doesn't even have insurance. I've been working with a bunch of contractors lately and have requested a certificate of insurance from every one before I signed the contract. None had a problem with that. |
#3
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You are exactly the kind of moonbat that drive contractors nuts.
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#4
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Jeff
Garden State Chimney P.O. Box, 293 Oaklyn, NJ 08107 He is listed in the Camden County Yellow Pages. Do not use him..please! He was $600.00 and was not the cheapest I had an estimate for $475.00. He listed he was insured so I used him.. "Kathy" wrote in message ... "Artist" wrote in message ... I'm a first-timer to your Newsgroup. man, who was that contractor? I'm having some chimney work done soon and want to make sure I don't call him. I'm near exit 4. Is he in my phone book? I bet he doesn't even have insurance. I've been working with a bunch of contractors lately and have requested a certificate of insurance from every one before I signed the contract. None had a problem with that. |
#5
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why? I have done nothing wrong. I stopped payment why he didn't show to see
that damage to my home. "Matt" wrote in message ups.com... You are exactly the kind of moonbat that drive contractors nuts. |
#6
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Artist wrote:
I was wondering if I may get some legal advice on a home improvement project that went very bad. I live in the State of New Jersey. IANAL, and this is not a legal advice forum. You need a lawyer. Now. |
#7
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"Matt" wrote You are exactly the kind of moonbat that drive contractors nuts. I wouldn't have expected a different response from you. Really, why in the world would this person be upset? Her house was wrecked by a pro and at a fair price. |
#8
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I relies this but I was wondering what other home owners may have done or
any home improvement contractors experience on a matter like this. Just advise. "Travis Jordan" wrote in message ... Artist wrote: I was wondering if I may get some legal advice on a home improvement project that went very bad. I live in the State of New Jersey. IANAL, and this is not a legal advice forum. You need a lawyer. Now. |
#9
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Thank you Ed...
Artist "Ed" wrote in message ... "Matt" wrote You are exactly the kind of moonbat that drive contractors nuts. I wouldn't have expected a different response from you. Really, why in the world would this person be upset? Her house was wrecked by a pro and at a fair price. |
#10
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How much out-of-pocket are you looking at? I'd think paying him then going
after him via small claims court for your cleanup expenses would be your best "legal" route. May be a case of getting blood from a turnip, 'tho. |
#11
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You probably need to pay him, then turn around and take him to small claims
court. |
#12
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"Artist" wrote Jeff Garden State Chimney P.O. Box, 293 Oaklyn, NJ 08107 He is listed in the Camden County Yellow Pages. Do not use him..please! Artist, that company could sue you for posting that name and address and might even win. All they need to do is show a drop off in work and say your post was the cause. Please, be careful. I know you're angry but don't make it worse. If they did sue you you would lose even if you won because the legal expenses could be quite high. A word to the wise. |
#13
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Get an attorney.
"Artist" wrote in message ... I'm a first-timer to your Newsgroup. I was wondering if I may get some legal advice on a home improvement project that went very bad. I live in the State of New Jersey. Home Improvement gone bad- chimney liner: The project started with being red-tagged from my local gas company because my water heater flue was back-drafting and the fumes where venting directly into my living space. I hired a local chimney contractor to install a chimney liner because my chimney was to big to draw the air properly. To make a long story kind of short.....1. the contractor forgot to turn off my heater while working and the heating system "calf" the soot and soil all through out my home. I immediately asked him to come look at the damage to my home, he refused and said it was just a bit of dust. 2. Also, the contractor forgot to seal off the area he was working in so the immediate living space was soiled due to cutting through the masonry wall to the chimney's existing flue. The damage to my home was so great that I received nose bleeds, headaches, and was sick to my stomach. I couldn't live in my home till the toxic mater was cleaned up. Consequently to correct this matter, I had set up an appointment with the chimney contractor to come and view the damages two days. He stated on the phone that he would be willing to pay my homeowner's deductible but was not willing to report the claim to his insurance company. I said this was not expectable to me. He said when he would come over we could try to work something out in a friendly fashion. He missed the appointment and never returned my follow-up call. I proceeded to have my homeowners insurance company come and clean-up my heating ducts/system, and my whole interior of my home and property...a four day clean up with five person team. I live in a three story townhouse 1,800 SF. I live and work from home and need to have the clean happen ASAP. The contractor whom caused the damage showed up at my doorstep a week after the accident. He only showed up at my doorstep unannounced because I canceled payment for his work done. (The chimney is working correctly and the gas company has since removed the red-tagged and I can use the water heater.) He claims he couldn't make the appointment due to he was in a car accident. I said I was sorry to hear that but this is business and he should of had his insurance agent contacted me directly. He wanted to get pay and didn't want to furnish me with his company's insurance information (certificate of insurance). He said since the clean up was almost complete that his insurance company would not pay for the damages. I informed him that my insurance company took picture and wrote a report as did the professional cleaning up company and would forward the information to his company. I stated it is in the hands of the insurance companies. He still refused to supply me with this information and I said I will not pay him till this matter is resolved. He was screaming at me at this point.....tons of drama that scared me. I just shut my door on him. He screamed he was going to go to the police, I said good. I then dialed 911 and the police took my statement. When the police arrived at my home they stated; it's against the law not to pay him the contractor for his work done even thought his work cause considerable damage to my home. That damage was a civil matter only. The officer state I must pay the contractor in 10 day after I receive his certified letter requesting payment or I will have to go to court for a criminal offense. Is this correct? Will I be issued a summons to go to court for a criminal offense because this contractor didn't do his work in a workman like manner; as it is stated in is his proposal/contract of work rendered? And I refuse to pay till the matter is settled? Don't I have the right to receive his insurance company information? Thank you for reading this explanation. I would appreciate any advise this forum may have to offer. Sincerely, Artist ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#14
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Artist wrote:
I relies this but I was wondering what other home owners may have done or any home improvement contractors experience on a matter like this. OK, but remember, this is NOT legal advice and you should consult a lawyer immediately. Was a permit required for this job? Did the contractor get one? If not, call your local city / county inspection agency and ask them to cite the contractor for working without a permit. They will get his insurance information (if he has any). |
#15
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well taken.
"Ed" wrote in message ... "Artist" wrote Jeff Garden State Chimney P.O. Box, 293 Oaklyn, NJ 08107 He is listed in the Camden County Yellow Pages. Do not use him..please! Artist, that company could sue you for posting that name and address and might even win. All they need to do is show a drop off in work and say your post was the cause. Please, be careful. I know you're angry but don't make it worse. If they did sue you you would lose even if you won because the legal expenses could be quite high. A word to the wise. |
#16
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Thank you for your advise. I was told I didn't need a permit by the two
contractors I had come out to give the estimate. I will call the building department. I'm asking for advise in general. I have posed my problem to the legal forum as well. Thanks for the advise, Artist "Travis Jordan" wrote in message ... Artist wrote: I relies this but I was wondering what other home owners may have done or any home improvement contractors experience on a matter like this. OK, but remember, this is NOT legal advice and you should consult a lawyer immediately. Was a permit required for this job? Did the contractor get one? If not, call your local city / county inspection agency and ask them to cite the contractor for working without a permit. They will get his insurance information (if he has any). |
#17
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Artist wrote:
Garden State Chimney Oaklyn, NJ 08107 He is listed in the Camden County Yellow Pages. Maybe so, but they aren't known to the BBB. It also seems there are a number of web hits for a company (or companies) using this name in the surrounding communities of Audubon, Haddon Heights and Collingswood. Curious.... |
#18
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Oh sammy, you just got the **** smacked out of you..... do you really
want to dance again? Anyway, I could have sworn you were done talking to me, what happened? |
#19
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"Matt" wrote Anyway, I could have sworn you were done talking to me, what happened? I'm trying to save people from your lack of knowledge. |
#20
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Andy,
It is $600.00, The estimated property damage to date is $4,000. It is over $1,000. so I understand this is not a small claims matter. I will have to pay him and have no problem doing so. I just want to get his insurance to cover my damage to my home. Because he created such a seen at my doorstep (drama) I do believe he don't have business insurance. Thank you for your advise. Well taken. Artist "Andy Hill" wrote in message ... How much out-of-pocket are you looking at? I'd think paying him then going after him via small claims court for your cleanup expenses would be your best "legal" route. May be a case of getting blood from a turnip, 'tho. |
#21
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I believe this maybe the case. I have an understanding I must go to a NJ
lawyer. "John Harlow" wrote in message ... You probably need to pay him, then turn around and take him to small claims court. |
#22
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Oh, how nice. Im sure everyone appreciates it.
But really, you must try harder. |
#23
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Yes...thank you.
Everything a homeowners is advised to do such as obtain certificate of insurance, permits, or referrals I didn't do. This is a very hard lesson to learn. This is my contractor. wrote in message ... On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:58:21 GMT, "Artist" wrote: I'm a first-timer to your Newsgroup. I was wondering if I may get some legal advice on a home improvement project that went very bad. I live in the State of New Jersey. Is this your contractor? http://www.twp.woodbridge.nj.us/WDBG...stchimney.html |
#24
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I have ten days to pay him in full according to the Police Officer after I
receive his certified letter requesting payment. Then I will be issued a summons to go to court for not paying him. I'm heading over to my police station now to find out what type of summons and how will this effect me personally. Thank you again. wrote in message ... On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:32:05 GMT, "Artist" wrote: I believe this maybe the case. I have an understanding I must go to a NJ lawyer. You better talk to a lawyer BEFORE you pay him. Payment might be construed as final acceptance of the job. Did you at least have any sort of written contract? Make sure to show it to your lawyer before you do anything that might totally screw you out of everything. The contractor may also put a lien on your house, which will affect your credit rating, and possibly even your ability to find a job or insurance! Get off the computer and find a real flesh and blood lawyer ASAP. There are NO real lawyers giving free advice on usenet. BB "John Harlow" wrote in message ... You probably need to pay him, then turn around and take him to small claims court. |
#25
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Interesting. What kind of web hits?
"Travis Jordan" wrote in message ... Artist wrote: Garden State Chimney Oaklyn, NJ 08107 He is listed in the Camden County Yellow Pages. Maybe so, but they aren't known to the BBB. It also seems there are a number of web hits for a company (or companies) using this name in the surrounding communities of Audubon, Haddon Heights and Collingswood. Curious.... |
#26
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Artist wrote:
This is my contractor. http://www.twp.woodbridge.nj.us/WDBG...stchimney.html Are you in Woodbridge Township? If so, you may be able to have the local DA bring criminal charges against the company. Check with Marta Lefsky, Woodbridge Township Director of Planning and Development. |
#27
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Artist wrote:
Interesting. What kind of web hits? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q... Google+Search |
#28
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15 years ago I had a somewhat similar problem. I withheld payment and sued
him; he countersued for his pay. I "won" but not what I wanted. Anyhow, 15 years ago in NY it was not illegal to refuse to pay a contractor. Maybe it is now, or maybe it is in NJ. You need a lawyer now. This group is great for home repair advice (though a big chunk of it is wrong), but pretty useless for NJ law. Good luck; unfortunately you will need it. |
#29
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wrote Do NOT take legal advice from a police officer. Especially when the issue is not criminal law. This is not a criminal law issue. The police officer is trying to be helpful, but giving you legal advice was an inappropriate thing for him to do. You need to talk to a LAWYER, and very quickly! BB How true. Last summer I had chipmunks attacking the tomatoes in my garden. I called the PD to ask if I needed a permit too buy a BB gun. The officer told me a permit is no longer required but he asked why I wanted to buy a BB gun. I told him and he said I should just buy a Have A Heart trap and catch them, transport them to another area and release them. The next day a local newspaper had a story about the huge chipmunk population and warned about transporting them to another area. It seems that it's illegal to do so and the story went on to say that the best alternative was to destroy the chipmunks in a humain way, not with poisen in other words. |
#30
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ahh, why thank you.
"Travis Jordan" wrote in message ... Artist wrote: Interesting. What kind of web hits? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q... Google+Search |
#31
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thank you for adding humor...
I just came back form the police officer...he said it's criminal not to pay the contractor is 10 day of receiving a certified letter asking for payment. The officer will summons me to court to pay him for work done in my home. I have no recourse but to pay him. Then go after him through Superior County Court with a civil suet. This whole matter is mind blowing.... Thanks to everyone for their help and advise. It got me to go to back to the police station and hear the officer again. "Ed" wrote in message ... wrote Do NOT take legal advice from a police officer. Especially when the issue is not criminal law. This is not a criminal law issue. The police officer is trying to be helpful, but giving you legal advice was an inappropriate thing for him to do. You need to talk to a LAWYER, and very quickly! BB How true. Last summer I had chipmunks attacking the tomatoes in my garden. I called the PD to ask if I needed a permit too buy a BB gun. The officer told me a permit is no longer required but he asked why I wanted to buy a BB gun. I told him and he said I should just buy a Have A Heart trap and catch them, transport them to another area and release them. The next day a local newspaper had a story about the huge chipmunk population and warned about transporting them to another area. It seems that it's illegal to do so and the story went on to say that the best alternative was to destroy the chipmunks in a humain way, not with poisen in other words. |
#32
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No I am not. But I did contact my local building department. Permits should
have been issued and the building inspector will call me this Tuesday to answer my question and to see if laws where broken. Then we will take it from there. Thanks again for your help and insight. Artist "Travis Jordan" wrote in message ... Artist wrote: This is my contractor. http://www.twp.woodbridge.nj.us/WDBG...stchimney.html Are you in Woodbridge Township? If so, you may be able to have the local DA bring criminal charges against the company. Check with Marta Lefsky, Woodbridge Township Director of Planning and Development. |
#33
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"Artist" wrote thank you for adding humor... What humor? I'm very serious about my tomatoes :-) $4.29 per pound (for the good ones) at the local supermarket. Ground chuck is $2.29 and you can still get whole chickens for $0.89 per pound. I love salad. |
#34
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Your so right Ed...I do love a good Tomato..NJ use to be the tomato
state...Sorry for thinking it was a light matter. Smiles, Artist "Ed" wrote in message ... "Artist" wrote thank you for adding humor... What humor? I'm very serious about my tomatoes :-) $4.29 per pound (for the good ones) at the local supermarket. Ground chuck is $2.29 and you can still get whole chickens for $0.89 per pound. I love salad. |
#35
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"Artist" wrote in message ... Honest....this is what he told me...I will be calling Lawyers Monday. Monday is a holiday. You should call your lawyer and leave a message so he calls you back first thing Tuesday. |
#36
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Artist wrote:
Honest....this is what he told me...I will be calling Lawyers Monday. Assuming that you had a valid contract with the company in question and that they have done the work that they said they would do, the UCC would require that you fulfill your obligation to pay them, and seek separate redress for any damages. You'll find that it works this way in every state that has adopted the UCC. IANAL, and your attorney may interpret the law differently. |
#37
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I have never heard of an unpaid bill being a criminal act. If this were true
there would be a lot more criminals in the world. Also your state may have a holdback law, where you are required to hold back 10% or some other percentage for 90 days to protect yourself from the contractor's unpaid (criminal again?) sub-contractors and/or suppliers. Again ONLY A LAWYER in your state can advise you on where you stand and how you can recover your clean-up costs. "Artist" wrote in message ... thank you for adding humor... I just came back form the police officer...he said it's criminal not to pay the contractor is 10 day of receiving a certified letter asking for payment. The officer will summons me to court to pay him for work done in my home. I have no recourse but to pay him. Then go after him through Superior County Court with a civil suet. This whole matter is mind blowing.... Thanks to everyone for their help and advise. It got me to go to back to the police station and hear the officer again. "Ed" wrote in message ... wrote Do NOT take legal advice from a police officer. Especially when the issue is not criminal law. This is not a criminal law issue. The police officer is trying to be helpful, but giving you legal advice was an inappropriate thing for him to do. You need to talk to a LAWYER, and very quickly! BB How true. Last summer I had chipmunks attacking the tomatoes in my garden. I called the PD to ask if I needed a permit too buy a BB gun. The officer told me a permit is no longer required but he asked why I wanted to buy a BB gun. I told him and he said I should just buy a Have A Heart trap and catch them, transport them to another area and release them. The next day a local newspaper had a story about the huge chipmunk population and warned about transporting them to another area. It seems that it's illegal to do so and the story went on to say that the best alternative was to destroy the chipmunks in a humain way, not with poisen in other words. |
#38
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Artist wrote:
I'm a first-timer to your Newsgroup. I was wondering if I may get some legal advice on a home improvement project that went very bad. I live in the State of New Jersey. You really need to talk to an attorney in NJ. I suspect that the contractor will not push the issue officially. He likely is not insured (both liability and workman's comp, may not be properly licensed. If he contacts you, tell him that you are planning to have him investigated for lack of insurance and proper licenses. I suspect that will be the end of it. However. In most areas he can ask for a lien placed on your property. That's why you really need to contact the attorney. -- Joseph Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math |
#39
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Eric Tonks wrote:
I have never heard of an unpaid bill being a criminal act. With the exception of 'intent to defraud' (i.e. uttering) I think you are correct. In this case, the OP simply hasn't paid a bill that (is, may be) due. That's not a criminal act in any state that I am aware of. IANAL. |
#40
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Joseph Meehan wrote:
In most areas he can ask for a lien placed on your property. That's why you really need to contact the attorney. Very, very sound advice. |
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