Home Improvement gone bad- chimney liner
 

I'm a first-timer to your Newsgroup.

I was wondering if I may get some legal advice on a home improvement project
that went very bad. I live in the State of New Jersey.

Home Improvement gone bad- chimney liner:

The project started with being red-tagged from my local gas company because
my water heater flue was back-drafting and the fumes where venting directly
into my living space.


I hired a local chimney contractor to install a chimney liner because my
chimney was to big to draw the air properly. To make a long story kind of
short.....1. the contractor forgot to turn off my heater while working and
the heating system "calf" the soot and soil all through out my home. I
immediately asked him to come look at the damage to my home, he refused and
said it was just a bit of dust. 2. Also, the contractor forgot to seal off
the area he was working in so the immediate living space was soiled due to
cutting through the masonry wall to the chimney's existing flue. The damage
to my home was so great that I received nose bleeds, headaches, and was sick
to my stomach. I couldn't live in my home till the toxic mater was cleaned
up.

Consequently to correct this matter, I had set up an appointment with the
chimney contractor to come and view the damages two days. He stated on the
phone that he would be willing to pay my homeowner's deductible but was not
willing to report the claim to his insurance company. I said this was not
expectable to me. He said when he would come over we could try to work
something out in a friendly fashion. He missed the appointment and never
returned my follow-up call. I proceeded to have my homeowners insurance
company come and clean-up my heating ducts/system, and my whole interior of
my home and property...a four day clean up with five person team. I live in
a three story townhouse 1,800 SF. I live and work from home and need to have
the clean happen ASAP.

The contractor whom caused the damage showed up at my doorstep a week after
the accident. He only showed up at my doorstep unannounced because I
canceled payment for his work done. (The chimney is working correctly and
the gas company has since removed the red-tagged and I can use the water
heater.) He claims he couldn't make the appointment due to he was in a car
accident. I said I was sorry to hear that but this is business and he should
of had his insurance agent contacted me directly. He wanted to get pay and
didn't want to furnish me with his company's insurance information
(certificate of insurance). He said since the clean up was almost complete
that his insurance company would not pay for the damages. I informed him
that my insurance company took picture and wrote a report as did the
professional cleaning up company and would forward the information to his
company. I stated it is in the hands of the insurance companies. He still
refused to supply me with this information and I said I will not pay him
till this matter is resolved. He was screaming at me at this point.....tons
of drama that scared me. I just shut my door on him. He screamed he was
going to go to the police, I said good. I then dialed 911 and the police
took my statement.

When the police arrived at my home they stated; it's against the law not to
pay him the contractor for his work done even thought his work cause
considerable damage to my home. That damage was a civil matter only. The
officer state I must pay the contractor in 10 day after I receive his
certified letter requesting payment or I will have to go to court for a
criminal offense. Is this correct? Will I be issued a summons to go to court
for a criminal offense because this contractor didn't do his work in a
workman like manner; as it is stated in is his proposal/contract of work
rendered? And I refuse to pay till the matter is settled? Don't I have the
right to receive his insurance company information?

Thank you for reading this explanation. I would appreciate any advise this
forum may have to offer.

Sincerely,
Artist

"Artist" wrote in message
...
I'm a first-timer to your Newsgroup.

man, who was that contractor? I'm having some chimney work done soon and
want to make sure I don't call him. I'm near exit 4. Is he in my phone book?
I bet he doesn't even have insurance. I've been working with a bunch of
contractors lately and have requested a certificate of insurance from every
one before I signed the contract. None had a problem with that.

You are exactly the kind of moonbat that drive contractors nuts.

Jeff
Garden State Chimney
P.O. Box, 293
Oaklyn, NJ 08107
He is listed in the Camden County Yellow Pages.

Do not use him..please!



He was $600.00 and was not the cheapest I had an estimate for $475.00.
He listed he was insured so I used him..

"Kathy" wrote in message
...

"Artist" wrote in message
...
I'm a first-timer to your Newsgroup.

man, who was that contractor? I'm having some chimney work done soon and
want to make sure I don't call him. I'm near exit 4. Is he in my phone
book?
I bet he doesn't even have insurance. I've been working with a bunch of
contractors lately and have requested a certificate of insurance from
every
one before I signed the contract. None had a problem with that.

why? I have done nothing wrong. I stopped payment why he didn't show to see
that damage to my home.

"Matt" wrote in message
ups.com...
You are exactly the kind of moonbat that drive contractors nuts.

Artist wrote:
I was wondering if I may get some legal advice on a home improvement
project that went very bad. I live in the State of New Jersey.

IANAL, and this is not a legal advice forum. You need a lawyer. Now.

"Matt" wrote

You are exactly the kind of moonbat that drive contractors nuts.

I wouldn't have expected a different response from you. Really, why in the
world would this person be upset? Her house was wrecked by a pro and at a
fair price.

I relies this but I was wondering what other home owners may have done or
any home improvement contractors experience on a matter like this.
Just advise.

"Travis Jordan" wrote in message
...
Artist wrote:
I was wondering if I may get some legal advice on a home improvement
project that went very bad. I live in the State of New Jersey.

IANAL, and this is not a legal advice forum. You need a lawyer. Now.

Thank you Ed...:)
Artist

"Ed" wrote in message
...

"Matt" wrote

You are exactly the kind of moonbat that drive contractors nuts.

I wouldn't have expected a different response from you. Really, why in the
world would this person be upset? Her house was wrecked by a pro and at a
fair price.

How much out-of-pocket are you looking at? I'd think paying him then going
after him via small claims court for your cleanup expenses would be your best
"legal" route. May be a case of getting blood from a turnip, 'tho.

You probably need to pay him, then turn around and take him to small claims
court.

"Artist" wrote

Jeff
Garden State Chimney
P.O. Box, 293
Oaklyn, NJ 08107
He is listed in the Camden County Yellow Pages.

Do not use him..please!

Artist, that company could sue you for posting that name and address and
might even win. All they need to do is show a drop off in work and say your
post was the cause. Please, be careful. I know you're angry but don't make
it worse. If they did sue you you would lose even if you won because the
legal expenses could be quite high. A word to the wise.

Get an attorney.

"Artist" wrote in message
...
I'm a first-timer to your Newsgroup.

I was wondering if I may get some legal advice on a home improvement
project
that went very bad. I live in the State of New Jersey.

Home Improvement gone bad- chimney liner:

The project started with being red-tagged from my local gas company
because
my water heater flue was back-drafting and the fumes where venting
directly
into my living space.


I hired a local chimney contractor to install a chimney liner because my
chimney was to big to draw the air properly. To make a long story kind of
short.....1. the contractor forgot to turn off my heater while working and
the heating system "calf" the soot and soil all through out my home. I
immediately asked him to come look at the damage to my home, he refused
and
said it was just a bit of dust. 2. Also, the contractor forgot to seal off
the area he was working in so the immediate living space was soiled due to
cutting through the masonry wall to the chimney's existing flue. The
damage
to my home was so great that I received nose bleeds, headaches, and was
sick
to my stomach. I couldn't live in my home till the toxic mater was cleaned
up.

Consequently to correct this matter, I had set up an appointment with the
chimney contractor to come and view the damages two days. He stated on the
phone that he would be willing to pay my homeowner's deductible but was
not
willing to report the claim to his insurance company. I said this was not
expectable to me. He said when he would come over we could try to work
something out in a friendly fashion. He missed the appointment and never
returned my follow-up call. I proceeded to have my homeowners insurance
company come and clean-up my heating ducts/system, and my whole interior
of
my home and property...a four day clean up with five person team. I live
in
a three story townhouse 1,800 SF. I live and work from home and need to
have
the clean happen ASAP.

The contractor whom caused the damage showed up at my doorstep a week
after
the accident. He only showed up at my doorstep unannounced because I
canceled payment for his work done. (The chimney is working correctly and
the gas company has since removed the red-tagged and I can use the water
heater.) He claims he couldn't make the appointment due to he was in a car
accident. I said I was sorry to hear that but this is business and he
should
of had his insurance agent contacted me directly. He wanted to get pay and
didn't want to furnish me with his company's insurance information
(certificate of insurance). He said since the clean up was almost complete
that his insurance company would not pay for the damages. I informed him
that my insurance company took picture and wrote a report as did the
professional cleaning up company and would forward the information to his
company. I stated it is in the hands of the insurance companies. He still
refused to supply me with this information and I said I will not pay him
till this matter is resolved. He was screaming at me at this
point.....tons
of drama that scared me. I just shut my door on him. He screamed he was
going to go to the police, I said good. I then dialed 911 and the police
took my statement.

When the police arrived at my home they stated; it's against the law not
to
pay him the contractor for his work done even thought his work cause
considerable damage to my home. That damage was a civil matter only. The
officer state I must pay the contractor in 10 day after I receive his
certified letter requesting payment or I will have to go to court for a
criminal offense. Is this correct? Will I be issued a summons to go to
court
for a criminal offense because this contractor didn't do his work in a
workman like manner; as it is stated in is his proposal/contract of work
rendered? And I refuse to pay till the matter is settled? Don't I have the
right to receive his insurance company information?

Thank you for reading this explanation. I would appreciate any advise this
forum may have to offer.

Sincerely,
Artist





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Artist wrote:
I relies this but I was wondering what other home owners may have
done or any home improvement contractors experience on a matter like
this.

OK, but remember, this is NOT legal advice and you should consult a
lawyer immediately.

Was a permit required for this job? Did the contractor get one? If
not, call your local city / county inspection agency and ask them to
cite the contractor for working without a permit. They will get his
insurance information (if he has any).

well taken.

"Ed" wrote in message
...

"Artist" wrote

Jeff
Garden State Chimney
P.O. Box, 293
Oaklyn, NJ 08107
He is listed in the Camden County Yellow Pages.

Do not use him..please!

Artist, that company could sue you for posting that name and address and
might even win. All they need to do is show a drop off in work and say
your
post was the cause. Please, be careful. I know you're angry but don't make
it worse. If they did sue you you would lose even if you won because the
legal expenses could be quite high. A word to the wise.

Thank you for your advise. I was told I didn't need a permit by the two
contractors I had come out to give the estimate. I will call the building
department.
I'm asking for advise in general. I have posed my problem to the legal forum
as well.
Thanks for the advise,
Artist

"Travis Jordan" wrote in message
...
Artist wrote:
I relies this but I was wondering what other home owners may have
done or any home improvement contractors experience on a matter like
this.

OK, but remember, this is NOT legal advice and you should consult a
lawyer immediately.

Was a permit required for this job? Did the contractor get one? If
not, call your local city / county inspection agency and ask them to
cite the contractor for working without a permit. They will get his
insurance information (if he has any).

Artist wrote:
Garden State Chimney
Oaklyn, NJ 08107
He is listed in the Camden County Yellow Pages.

Maybe so, but they aren't known to the BBB. It also seems there are a
number of web hits for a company (or companies) using this name in the
surrounding communities of Audubon, Haddon Heights and Collingswood.
Curious....

Oh sammy, you just got the **** smacked out of you..... do you really
want to dance again?

Anyway, I could have sworn you were done talking to me, what happened?

"Matt" wrote

Anyway, I could have sworn you were done talking to me, what happened?

I'm trying to save people from your lack of knowledge.

Andy,
It is $600.00, The estimated property damage to date is $4,000.

It is over $1,000. so I understand this is not a small claims matter.
I will have to pay him and have no problem doing so. I just want to get his
insurance to cover my damage to my home.

Because he created such a seen at my doorstep (drama) I do believe he don't
have business insurance.
Thank you for your advise. Well taken.
Artist

"Andy Hill" wrote in message
...
How much out-of-pocket are you looking at? I'd think paying him then
going
after him via small claims court for your cleanup expenses would be your
best
"legal" route. May be a case of getting blood from a turnip, 'tho.

I believe this maybe the case. I have an understanding I must go to a NJ
lawyer.

"John Harlow" wrote in message
...
You probably need to pay him, then turn around and take him to small
claims
court.

Oh, how nice. Im sure everyone appreciates it.

But really, you must try harder.

Yes...thank you.

Everything a homeowners is advised to do such as obtain certificate of
insurance, permits, or referrals I didn't do. This is a very hard lesson to
learn.

This is my contractor.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:58:21 GMT, "Artist"
wrote:

I'm a first-timer to your Newsgroup.

I was wondering if I may get some legal advice on a home improvement
project
that went very bad. I live in the State of New Jersey.

Is this your contractor?

http://www.twp.woodbridge.nj.us/WDBG...stchimney.html

I have ten days to pay him in full according to the Police Officer after I
receive his certified letter requesting payment. Then I will be issued a
summons to go to court for not paying him. I'm heading over to my police
station now to find out what type of summons and how will this effect me
personally.
Thank you again.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:32:05 GMT, "Artist"
wrote:

I believe this maybe the case. I have an understanding I must go to a NJ
lawyer.


You better talk to a lawyer BEFORE you pay him. Payment might be
construed as final acceptance of the job. Did you at least have any
sort of written contract? Make sure to show it to your lawyer before
you do anything that might totally screw you out of everything. The
contractor may also put a lien on your house, which will affect your
credit rating, and possibly even your ability to find a job or
insurance! Get off the computer and find a real flesh and blood lawyer
ASAP. There are NO real lawyers giving free advice on usenet.

BB

"John Harlow" wrote in message
...
You probably need to pay him, then turn around and take him to small
claims
court.

Interesting. What kind of web hits?

"Travis Jordan" wrote in message
...
Artist wrote:
Garden State Chimney
Oaklyn, NJ 08107
He is listed in the Camden County Yellow Pages.

Maybe so, but they aren't known to the BBB. It also seems there are a
number of web hits for a company (or companies) using this name in the
surrounding communities of Audubon, Haddon Heights and Collingswood.
Curious....

Artist wrote:
This is my contractor.
http://www.twp.woodbridge.nj.us/WDBG...stchimney.html

Are you in Woodbridge Township? If so, you may be able to have the
local DA bring criminal charges against the company. Check with Marta
Lefsky, Woodbridge Township Director of Planning and Development.

Artist wrote:
Interesting. What kind of web hits?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q... Google+Search

15 years ago I had a somewhat similar problem. I withheld payment and sued
him; he countersued for his pay. I "won" but not what I wanted.

Anyhow, 15 years ago in NY it was not illegal to refuse to pay a contractor.
Maybe it is now, or maybe it is in NJ.

You need a lawyer now. This group is great for home repair advice (though a
big chunk of it is wrong), but pretty useless for NJ law.

Good luck; unfortunately you will need it.

wrote

Do NOT take legal advice from a police officer. Especially when the issue
is not
criminal law. This is not a criminal law issue. The police officer is
trying to
be helpful, but giving you legal advice was an inappropriate thing for him
to
do. You need to talk to a LAWYER, and very quickly!

BB

How true. Last summer I had chipmunks attacking the tomatoes in my garden. I
called the PD to ask if I needed a permit too buy a BB gun. The officer told
me a permit is no longer required but he asked why I wanted to buy a BB gun.
I told him and he said I should just buy a Have A Heart trap and catch them,
transport them to another area and release them. The next day a local
newspaper had a story about the huge chipmunk population and warned about
transporting them to another area. It seems that it's illegal to do so and
the story went on to say that the best alternative was to destroy the
chipmunks in a humain way, not with poisen in other words.

ahh, why thank you.

"Travis Jordan" wrote in message
...
Artist wrote:
Interesting. What kind of web hits?


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q... Google+Search

thank you for adding humor...
I just came back form the police officer...he said it's criminal not to pay
the contractor is 10 day of receiving a certified letter asking for payment.
The officer will summons me to court to pay him for work done in my home. I
have no recourse but to pay him. Then go after him through Superior County
Court with a civil suet.
This whole matter is mind blowing....
Thanks to everyone for their help and advise. It got me to go to back to the
police station and hear the officer again.

"Ed" wrote in message
...

wrote

Do NOT take legal advice from a police officer. Especially when the
issue
is not
criminal law. This is not a criminal law issue. The police officer is
trying to
be helpful, but giving you legal advice was an inappropriate thing for
him
to
do. You need to talk to a LAWYER, and very quickly!

BB

How true. Last summer I had chipmunks attacking the tomatoes in my garden.
I
called the PD to ask if I needed a permit too buy a BB gun. The officer
told
me a permit is no longer required but he asked why I wanted to buy a BB
gun.
I told him and he said I should just buy a Have A Heart trap and catch
them,
transport them to another area and release them. The next day a local
newspaper had a story about the huge chipmunk population and warned about
transporting them to another area. It seems that it's illegal to do so and
the story went on to say that the best alternative was to destroy the
chipmunks in a humain way, not with poisen in other words.

No I am not. But I did contact my local building department. Permits should
have been issued and the building inspector will call me this Tuesday to
answer my question and to see if laws where broken. Then we will take it
from there.
Thanks again for your help and insight.
Artist
"Travis Jordan" wrote in message
...
Artist wrote:
This is my contractor.
http://www.twp.woodbridge.nj.us/WDBG...stchimney.html

Are you in Woodbridge Township? If so, you may be able to have the
local DA bring criminal charges against the company. Check with Marta
Lefsky, Woodbridge Township Director of Planning and Development.

"Artist" wrote

thank you for adding humor...

What humor? I'm very serious about my tomatoes :-)

$4.29 per pound (for the good ones) at the local supermarket. Ground chuck
is $2.29 and you can still get whole chickens for $0.89 per pound. I love
salad.

Your so right Ed...I do love a good Tomato..NJ use to be the tomato
state...Sorry for thinking it was a light matter.
Smiles,
Artist

"Ed" wrote in message
...

"Artist" wrote

thank you for adding humor...

What humor? I'm very serious about my tomatoes :-)

$4.29 per pound (for the good ones) at the local supermarket. Ground
chuck
is $2.29 and you can still get whole chickens for $0.89 per pound. I love
salad.

"Artist" wrote in message
...
Honest....this is what he told me...I will be calling Lawyers Monday.

Monday is a holiday. You should call your lawyer and leave a message so he
calls you back first thing Tuesday.

Artist wrote:
Honest....this is what he told me...I will be calling Lawyers Monday.

Assuming that you had a valid contract with the company in question and
that they have done the work that they said they would do, the UCC would
require that you fulfill your obligation to pay them, and seek separate
redress for any damages. You'll find that it works this way in every
state that has adopted the UCC.

IANAL, and your attorney may interpret the law differently.

I have never heard of an unpaid bill being a criminal act. If this were true
there would be a lot more criminals in the world. Also your state may have a
holdback law, where you are required to hold back 10% or some other
percentage for 90 days to protect yourself from the contractor's unpaid
(criminal again?) sub-contractors and/or suppliers.

Again ONLY A LAWYER in your state can advise you on where you stand and how
you can recover your clean-up costs.

"Artist" wrote in message
...
thank you for adding humor...
I just came back form the police officer...he said it's criminal not to
pay
the contractor is 10 day of receiving a certified letter asking for
payment.
The officer will summons me to court to pay him for work done in my home.
I
have no recourse but to pay him. Then go after him through Superior County
Court with a civil suet.
This whole matter is mind blowing....
Thanks to everyone for their help and advise. It got me to go to back to
the
police station and hear the officer again.

"Ed" wrote in message
...

wrote

Do NOT take legal advice from a police officer. Especially when the
issue
is not
criminal law. This is not a criminal law issue. The police officer is
trying to
be helpful, but giving you legal advice was an inappropriate thing for
him
to
do. You need to talk to a LAWYER, and very quickly!

BB

How true. Last summer I had chipmunks attacking the tomatoes in my
garden.
I
called the PD to ask if I needed a permit too buy a BB gun. The officer
told
me a permit is no longer required but he asked why I wanted to buy a BB
gun.
I told him and he said I should just buy a Have A Heart trap and catch
them,
transport them to another area and release them. The next day a local
newspaper had a story about the huge chipmunk population and warned
about
transporting them to another area. It seems that it's illegal to do so
and
the story went on to say that the best alternative was to destroy the
chipmunks in a humain way, not with poisen in other words.

Artist wrote:
I'm a first-timer to your Newsgroup.

I was wondering if I may get some legal advice on a home improvement
project that went very bad. I live in the State of New Jersey.


You really need to talk to an attorney in NJ. I suspect that the
contractor will not push the issue officially. He likely is not insured
(both liability and workman's comp, may not be properly licensed. If he
contacts you, tell him that you are planning to have him investigated for
lack of insurance and proper licenses. I suspect that will be the end of it.

However. In most areas he can ask for a lien placed on your property.
That's why you really need to contact the attorney.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Eric Tonks wrote:
I have never heard of an unpaid bill being a criminal act.

With the exception of 'intent to defraud' (i.e. uttering) I think you
are correct. In this case, the OP simply hasn't paid a bill that (is,
may be) due. That's not a criminal act in any state that I am aware of.

IANAL.

Joseph Meehan wrote:
In most areas he can ask for a lien placed on your
property. That's why you really need to contact the attorney.

Very, very sound advice.