You missed the part about paying him.
I see it as two different issues,
1. He put in a chimney liner, it works, job done. Pay him for his work.
2. He trashed your home in the process. Turn it over your insurance
company, let them deal with it, or sue the contractor.
Greg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pay him-I agree. I had a similar
problem with vinyl siding on a new
house. I turned it over to my home
owners insurance had a check in
less than a week. They even paid
to have the old siding hauled off.
PAY HIM stop the grief...They aren't
going to raise your premiums for 1
claim thats why you have a H.O.
policy. Your causing yourself needless
grief. JMO

Thank you m Ransley.
I am blowing fire at him by filing a complaint to BBB and Consumer Affairs,
among other things.
The contract does state that, and it's exactly why I haven't paid him yet. I
plan to pay when this matter is resolved. He did do the work but trashed my
home.

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Did you sign a contract, did it state "work is to be completed in a
Professional matter "
Well it wasn`t , Quit your worring , Im a Pro and have hired and Stop
Payed on your type of hacks. Blow fire at fire , He`s a con

That's my game plan. It was stop payment not a bad check. I can reinstate at
anytime. I believe I have due cause.
Thank you for confirming my train of thought.
Artist

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. com...

"Artist" wrote in message
...
I have stated to the contractor when he was at my door step that it have
no
problem paying him after I receive the certificate of insurance. I also
sent
this request to him in a certified letter. He has certified me a letter
stating this is a "bad check." I have read the NJ subsection on a bad
check
(the contractor mailed a copy of it to me).

Written as follows:
"2C:21-5. Bad Check. A person who issues or passes a check or similar
sight
order for the payment of money, knowing that it will not be honored by
the
deawee, commits an offense as. ....for theft committed by means of a bad
check, an issuer is presumed to know that the check or money order would
not
be paid, if:
a) no account
b) lack of funds
c)an offense under this section:
3) a crime of the fourth degree if the check or money order is
$200.00
or more but less then $1,000."


But, from what I interpret, you did not issue a bad check. It was good
when
issued, but stopped for cause. I'm not a lawyer, but I'd argue that one
in
court. You had an account, you had proper funds.

Thanks Chuck.
I thought it might be and it has. Lots of good ideas and I do feel confident
that I'm going about it correctly. I will be going to the township DA's
office to make an appointment to discuss the case. I understand this is free
for a first time request. I will find out soon enough. The building dept. is
on board to check out the none filling for them...letter are being sent to
the BBB and consumer affairs...I'm getting a copy of the police report and
all the HO insurance bill for the clean up...boy...it a lot but hey....this
forum has been truly excellent.
Artist

"Chuck" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:45:31 GMT, "Artist"
wrote:

I have stated to the contractor when he was at my door step that it have
no
problem paying him after I receive the certificate of insurance. I also
sent
this request to him in a certified letter. He has certified me a letter
stating this is a "bad check." I have read the NJ subsection on a bad
check
(the contractor mailed a copy of it to me).

Written as follows:
"2C:21-5. Bad Check. A person who issues or passes a check or similar
sight
order for the payment of money, knowing that it will not be honored by
the
deawee, commits an offense as. ....for theft committed by means of a bad
check, an issuer is presumed to know that the check or money order would
not
be paid, if:
a) no account
b) lack of funds
c)an offense under this section:
3) a crime of the fourth degree if the check or money order is
$200.00
or more but less then $1,000."

In reading this I think it is because the amount was $600.00. I had no
intention to cancel the check even after the damage happened. It was only
after he missed the appointment and didn't return my calls I placed a
stop
payment. I still will make good on the fee once the insurance information
has been received.

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
As I said I have used Stop Pay 3 times recently on crooked hacks.
As long as you had the intention of paying for a good job [ and you
did pay ] and HAD the funds in your account and, Can , and will
have
to prove it , it is not a bad check. If it was a deception-bad check ,
here he could sue for 3 times the amount + court costs. But that
obviously isn`t the case for you. It is his failure to provide cleanup
or his insurance co. name that is your issue.

Did he advertise or state verbaly or in writing he has insurance
?
or a lisence ? or bond?

Next time, you get the insurers name and a cert of insurance
before
any work starts on anything. Hacks lie.

If you are worried call the police today and explain everything,
you will feel better.

Also it is advisable to go to your courthouse and check suits on
file for whatever you do next, I learned the hard way.. The last guy I
hired looses 3-4 cases a year, and spends a few months in jail a year
from not re-paying people he has ripped off. Cal the police, talk
to
an officer, you will sleep better with them knowing the facts.



Some people are slamming you for discussing this on here instead of
going to lawyer first. (You do need to see the lawyer SOON)

In dealing with lawyers (for estate matters) ... I have found that
doing as much leg work for them will save you tons.

Any suggestions you get from here or ideas you came up with on your
own concerning getting documentation that he doesn't have insurance,
not licensed, BBB complaint record, don't forget to take your bank
statement showing that you had funds to cover the check when you
uttered it.. and handing this stuff to lawyer in orderly fashion will
save you some money.
A lawyer having a para-legal (spell check) make a simple call to govt
office to request a form or document, can cost $50 - $100 per shot..

Asking for advice here,, is a GREAT way to have your "ducks in a row"
prior to seeing the lawyer... but it is not a replacement for it.
Chuck

"Lisa M" wrote in message
...

You missed the part about paying him.
I see it as two different issues,
1. He put in a chimney liner, it works, job done. Pay him for his work.
2. He trashed your home in the process. Turn it over your insurance
company, let them deal with it, or sue the contractor.
Greg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pay him-I agree. I had a similar
problem with vinyl siding on a new
house. I turned it over to my home
owners insurance had a check in
less than a week. They even paid
to have the old siding hauled off.
PAY HIM stop the grief...They aren't
going to raise your premiums for 1
claim thats why you have a H.O.
policy. Your causing yourself needless
grief. JMO

I most strongly disagree! This is part of what is wrong with many sectors of
business today. No one takes pride in their work! Why should the customer
accept second class, careless, and shoddy work? If the workman was so
careless and uncaring as to trash the customer's house, one can only shudder
at what he may have done while installing the new chimney liner. Also, I am
sure that the contract for the work called for the property to be returned
to the same condition after the job as it was before the work began.
Therefore the contractor did NOT complete the job! Lastly, why should the
customer or his insurance company pay for cleaning up the mess? This is
clearly the responsibility of the contractor (if he is reputable and
ethical, which he obviously is not) and that responsibility was not met.
Therefore, let the legal beagles have at him... I say go for his throat and
perhaps a lesson can be taught him!!!!

Dave D

"DaveD" wrote in message
...

"Lisa M" wrote in message
...

You missed the part about paying him.
I see it as two different issues,
1. He put in a chimney liner, it works, job done. Pay him for his work.
2. He trashed your home in the process. Turn it over your insurance
company, let them deal with it, or sue the contractor.
Greg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pay him-I agree. I had a similar
problem with vinyl siding on a new
house. I turned it over to my home
owners insurance had a check in
less than a week. They even paid
to have the old siding hauled off.
PAY HIM stop the grief...They aren't
going to raise your premiums for 1
claim thats why you have a H.O.
policy. Your causing yourself needless
grief. JMO

I most strongly disagree! This is part of what is wrong with many sectors
of business today. No one takes pride in their work! Why should the
customer accept second class, careless, and shoddy work? If the workman
was so careless and uncaring as to trash the customer's house, one can
only shudder at what he may have done while installing the new chimney
liner. Also, I am sure that the contract for the work called for the
property to be returned to the same condition after the job as it was
before the work began. Therefore the contractor did NOT complete the job!
Lastly, why should the customer or his insurance company pay for cleaning
up the mess? This is clearly the responsibility of the contractor (if he
is reputable and ethical, which he obviously is not) and that
responsibility was not met. Therefore, let the legal beagles have at
him... I say go for his throat and perhaps a lesson can be taught him!!!!

Dave D

Are you related to my ex-wife?

To her, the main thing was establishing fault so she could get on to the
important things ......... punishment and guilt.

To her, it was not only necessary to win the disagreement, but to then KILL
the opponent.

Pay the bum, file a claim, and take all the time you would have wasted on it
and spend it with your kids or grandkids.

Sheesh. Teaching people lessons is like teaching an amoeba to pole vault.

The contractor has given me the certificate of insurance today along with
the original check. I have issued a new check. Now I cam submit the claim
through my insurance company.
A big thanks to every one for their advice and guidance, very much
appreciated.
Artist.


"Artist" wrote in message
...
Thanks Chuck.
I thought it might be and it has. Lots of good ideas and I do feel
confident
that I'm going about it correctly. I will be going to the township DA's
office to make an appointment to discuss the case. I understand this is
free
for a first time request. I will find out soon enough. The building dept.
is
on board to check out the none filling for them...letter are being sent to
the BBB and consumer affairs...I'm getting a copy of the police report and
all the HO insurance bill for the clean up...boy...it a lot but
hey....this
forum has been truly excellent.
Artist

"Chuck" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:45:31 GMT, "Artist"
wrote:

I have stated to the contractor when he was at my door step that it
have
no
problem paying him after I receive the certificate of insurance. I also
sent
this request to him in a certified letter. He has certified me a letter
stating this is a "bad check." I have read the NJ subsection on a bad
check
(the contractor mailed a copy of it to me).

Written as follows:
"2C:21-5. Bad Check. A person who issues or passes a check or similar
sight
order for the payment of money, knowing that it will not be honored by
the
deawee, commits an offense as. ....for theft committed by means of a
bad
check, an issuer is presumed to know that the check or money order
would
not
be paid, if:
a) no account
b) lack of funds
c)an offense under this section:
3) a crime of the fourth degree if the check or money order is
$200.00
or more but less then $1,000."

In reading this I think it is because the amount was $600.00. I had no
intention to cancel the check even after the damage happened. It was
only
after he missed the appointment and didn't return my calls I placed a
stop
payment. I still will make good on the fee once the insurance
information
has been received.

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
As I said I have used Stop Pay 3 times recently on crooked
hacks.
As long as you had the intention of paying for a good job [ and you
did pay ] and HAD the funds in your account and, Can , and will
have
to prove it , it is not a bad check. If it was a deception-bad check
,
here he could sue for 3 times the amount + court costs. But that
obviously isn`t the case for you. It is his failure to provide
cleanup
or his insurance co. name that is your issue.

Did he advertise or state verbaly or in writing he has
insurance
?
or a lisence ? or bond?

Next time, you get the insurers name and a cert of insurance
before
any work starts on anything. Hacks lie.

If you are worried call the police today and explain everything,
you will feel better.

Also it is advisable to go to your courthouse and check suits on
file for whatever you do next, I learned the hard way.. The last guy
I
hired looses 3-4 cases a year, and spends a few months in jail a year
from not re-paying people he has ripped off. Cal the police, talk
to
an officer, you will sleep better with them knowing the facts.



Some people are slamming you for discussing this on here instead of
going to lawyer first. (You do need to see the lawyer SOON)

In dealing with lawyers (for estate matters) ... I have found that
doing as much leg work for them will save you tons.

Any suggestions you get from here or ideas you came up with on your
own concerning getting documentation that he doesn't have insurance,
not licensed, BBB complaint record, don't forget to take your bank
statement showing that you had funds to cover the check when you
uttered it.. and handing this stuff to lawyer in orderly fashion will
save you some money.
A lawyer having a para-legal (spell check) make a simple call to govt
office to request a form or document, can cost $50 - $100 per shot..

Asking for advice here,, is a GREAT way to have your "ducks in a row"
prior to seeing the lawyer... but it is not a replacement for it.
Chuck

His insurance was issued in this February and is good till March if this
year....it's for the least amount of Liability....I'm just glad it is valid
and can cover my property damage. Hard lesson to learn.
Thanks again.
Artist

"Artist" wrote in message
...
The contractor has given me the certificate of insurance today along with
the original check. I have issued a new check. Now I cam submit the claim
through my insurance company.
A big thanks to every one for their advice and guidance, very much
appreciated.
Artist.


"Artist" wrote in message
...
Thanks Chuck.
I thought it might be and it has. Lots of good ideas and I do feel
confident
that I'm going about it correctly. I will be going to the township DA's
office to make an appointment to discuss the case. I understand this is
free
for a first time request. I will find out soon enough. The building
dept.
is
on board to check out the none filling for them...letter are being sent
to
the BBB and consumer affairs...I'm getting a copy of the police report
and
all the HO insurance bill for the clean up...boy...it a lot but
hey....this
forum has been truly excellent.
Artist

"Chuck" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:45:31 GMT, "Artist"
wrote:

I have stated to the contractor when he was at my door step that it
have
no
problem paying him after I receive the certificate of insurance. I
also
sent
this request to him in a certified letter. He has certified me a
letter
stating this is a "bad check." I have read the NJ subsection on a bad
check
(the contractor mailed a copy of it to me).

Written as follows:
"2C:21-5. Bad Check. A person who issues or passes a check or similar
sight
order for the payment of money, knowing that it will not be honored
by
the
deawee, commits an offense as. ....for theft committed by means of a
bad
check, an issuer is presumed to know that the check or money order
would
not
be paid, if:
a) no account
b) lack of funds
c)an offense under this section:
3) a crime of the fourth degree if the check or money order is
$200.00
or more but less then $1,000."

In reading this I think it is because the amount was $600.00. I had
no
intention to cancel the check even after the damage happened. It was
only
after he missed the appointment and didn't return my calls I placed a
stop
payment. I still will make good on the fee once the insurance
information
has been received.

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
As I said I have used Stop Pay 3 times recently on crooked
hacks.
As long as you had the intention of paying for a good job [ and
you
did pay ] and HAD the funds in your account and, Can , and will
have
to prove it , it is not a bad check. If it was a deception-bad
check
,
here he could sue for 3 times the amount + court costs. But that
obviously isn`t the case for you. It is his failure to provide
cleanup
or his insurance co. name that is your issue.

Did he advertise or state verbaly or in writing he has
insurance
?
or a lisence ? or bond?

Next time, you get the insurers name and a cert of insurance
before
any work starts on anything. Hacks lie.

If you are worried call the police today and explain
everything,
you will feel better.

Also it is advisable to go to your courthouse and check suits
on
file for whatever you do next, I learned the hard way.. The last
guy
I
hired looses 3-4 cases a year, and spends a few months in jail a
year
from not re-paying people he has ripped off. Cal the police,
talk
to
an officer, you will sleep better with them knowing the facts.



Some people are slamming you for discussing this on here instead of
going to lawyer first. (You do need to see the lawyer SOON)

In dealing with lawyers (for estate matters) ... I have found that
doing as much leg work for them will save you tons.

Any suggestions you get from here or ideas you came up with on your
own concerning getting documentation that he doesn't have insurance,
not licensed, BBB complaint record, don't forget to take your bank
statement showing that you had funds to cover the check when you
uttered it.. and handing this stuff to lawyer in orderly fashion will
save you some money.
A lawyer having a para-legal (spell check) make a simple call to govt
office to request a form or document, can cost $50 - $100 per shot..

Asking for advice here,, is a GREAT way to have your "ducks in a row"
prior to seeing the lawyer... but it is not a replacement for it.
Chuck

"DaveD" wrote in message
...

"Lisa M" wrote in message
...

You missed the part about paying him.
I see it as two different issues,
1. He put in a chimney liner, it works, job done. Pay him for his work.
2. He trashed your home in the process. Turn it over your insurance
company, let them deal with it, or sue the contractor.
Greg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pay him-I agree. I had a similar
problem with vinyl siding on a new
house. I turned it over to my home
owners insurance had a check in
less than a week. They even paid
to have the old siding hauled off.
PAY HIM stop the grief...They aren't
going to raise your premiums for 1
claim thats why you have a H.O.
policy. Your causing yourself needless
grief. JMO

I most strongly disagree! This is part of what is wrong with many sectors
of business today. No one takes pride in their work! Why should the
customer accept second class, careless, and shoddy work? If the workman
was so careless and uncaring as to trash the customer's house, one can
only shudder at what he may have done while installing the new chimney
liner. Also, I am sure that the contract for the work called for the
property to be returned to the same condition after the job as it was
before the work began. Therefore the contractor did NOT complete the job!
Lastly, why should the customer or his insurance company pay for cleaning
up the mess? This is clearly the responsibility of the contractor (if he
is reputable and ethical, which he obviously is not) and that
responsibility was not met. Therefore, let the legal beagles have at
him... I say go for his throat and perhaps a lesson can be taught him!!!!

Dave D





First off my bet is if it went to court the judge would split into two
separate issues, like I have. Was the job done? Yes! Then pay him.
Secondly would be the damages. The home owner win probably win out on this,
but a judge would deduct the contractors job from the damages. either way he
gets paid for the job, so to speak, but the damages eat up the income from
the job.

As far as giving it to the insurance company, if the insurance company is
like most, they will pursue the issue of damages with the contractor. In
other words the insurance company probably will not pay out, but they will
be the muscle to collect the money either from the contractor or the
contractor's insurance. That is why you pay them!
Trust me, I have been there! On both sides of the issue! That is how it went
down both times.
Greg

In article pwJSd.109413$mt.87928@fed1read03,
says...

Sheesh. Teaching people lessons is like teaching an amoeba to pole vault.


I love it! .... except I'd say "some people" instead of people.

The contractor has given me the certificate of insurance today along with
the original check. I have issued a new check. Now I cam submit the claim
through my insurance company.
A big thanks to every one for their advice and guidance, very much
appreciated.
Artist.
"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"DaveD" wrote in message
...

"Lisa M" wrote in message
...

You missed the part about paying him.
I see it as two different issues,
1. He put in a chimney liner, it works, job done. Pay him for his work.
2. He trashed your home in the process. Turn it over your insurance
company, let them deal with it, or sue the contractor.
Greg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pay him-I agree. I had a similar
problem with vinyl siding on a new
house. I turned it over to my home
owners insurance had a check in
less than a week. They even paid
to have the old siding hauled off.
PAY HIM stop the grief...They aren't
going to raise your premiums for 1
claim thats why you have a H.O.
policy. Your causing yourself needless
grief. JMO

I most strongly disagree! This is part of what is wrong with many
sectors
of business today. No one takes pride in their work! Why should the
customer accept second class, careless, and shoddy work? If the workman
was so careless and uncaring as to trash the customer's house, one can
only shudder at what he may have done while installing the new chimney
liner. Also, I am sure that the contract for the work called for the
property to be returned to the same condition after the job as it was
before the work began. Therefore the contractor did NOT complete the
job!
Lastly, why should the customer or his insurance company pay for
cleaning
up the mess? This is clearly the responsibility of the contractor (if he
is reputable and ethical, which he obviously is not) and that
responsibility was not met. Therefore, let the legal beagles have at
him... I say go for his throat and perhaps a lesson can be taught
him!!!!

Dave D





First off my bet is if it went to court the judge would split into two
separate issues, like I have. Was the job done? Yes! Then pay him.
Secondly would be the damages. The home owner win probably win out on
this,
but a judge would deduct the contractors job from the damages. either way
he
gets paid for the job, so to speak, but the damages eat up the income from
the job.

As far as giving it to the insurance company, if the insurance company is
like most, they will pursue the issue of damages with the contractor. In
other words the insurance company probably will not pay out, but they will
be the muscle to collect the money either from the contractor or the
contractor's insurance. That is why you pay them!
Trust me, I have been there! On both sides of the issue! That is how it
went
down both times.
Greg

He gave you a cert , good I hope it is still in effect, you need to
call his insurance broker or insurance co.

I did yesterday, it was effective on the 8th of this month when the accident
happen and it is still current....all good.....thanks for asking.Artist
"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
He gave you a cert , good I hope it is still in effect, you need to
call his insurance broker or insurance co.

Listen, I have a collection agency and you have rights too!
http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm


Artist wrote:
The contractor made it more complicated.

He is threatened me at my door. Involved the police by threatening to
issue
a criminal summons in 10 days after a certified letter stating I
issued a
"Bad Check." And finally, not issuing to me his companies certificate
of
insurance.

I have files formal complaints with the BBB and NJ Consumer Affairs.
I will
be going to my townships DA to find out if I'm wrong for "stop
payment" due
to non-communication, threats, and not issuing the insurance
information. I
will obtain the police report. I have already made an appointment
with the
Building Department in reference to the permits not being obtained by
the
contractor. And I will contact state licensing board to see if he is
licensed. But it appears for home improvement in the state of NJ they
contractors don't have to file for it till Dec. 05. I have left
messages
with the Health and Safety Div. of my county to see if any health
violation
happened for releasing any hazardous toxic airborne particles into my
home.

Trying to correct the situation and protect myself from this
contractor. I
have received much of this advice from the Usernets I posted my
questions
on.

I wish it was that simple now.



"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"Artist" wrote in message
...
Good point. But the contractor is filling a summon against me for
a "Bad
Check" and not paying the contractor for services rendered. My
insurance
company can not help me here.



You missed the part about paying him.
I see it as two different issues,

1. He put in a chimney liner, it works, job done. Pay him for his
work.

2. He trashed your home in the process. Turn it over your insurance
company,
let them deal with it, or sue the contractor.

Greg